dc10lover
Topic Author
Posts: 1531
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:40 pm

Just leave International flights to their partner airlines. They are way better than AA, DL & UA on International flights.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Non descriptive/clickbait title
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1303
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Should AA, DL & United............

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:42 pm

No, huge loss or revenue. And what about routes that don’t have a joint venture? What would the big three do with their widebodies?
 
dc10lover
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Should AA, DL & United............

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:45 pm

I would rather fly Singapore Airlines, ANA, LH and others on International flights instead of AA, DL & UA.

But I WOULD fly JetBlue Airways on International flights.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
dc10lover
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Should AA, DL & United............

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:47 pm

One thought I have. JetBlue Airways should run ONLY Mint Service on International flights. Hint: You do want to attract Business Travelers.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
winginit
Posts: 2504
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Should AA, DL & United............

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:49 pm

So, first and foremost, your question is whether the US3 should sell a majority of their widebody aircraft to their JV partners so that their JV partners can then completely retrofit them, repaint them, and take on what had been the US3's international flying? ... okay...

Apart from those near impossible logistics and what would be pure devastation to the US3's market cap by way of lost assets, your blanket statement that the US3's partners have superior international flying is highly subjective and I imagine in the minds of many wholly inaccurate.

Would you rather take an AA 77W or a BA 747?
Would you rather take a DL 359 or a KL 333?
Would you rather take a DL 777 or a VS 346?
Would you rather take a UA 781 or an LH 747?

To answer your question. No, obviously not for numerous reasons, although there are certainly routes where the US3 actively do leave prime international flying to their partners (LAXLHR for VS, prime JFKLHR times for BA, etc.) A customer's preference as to whether to fly a US carrier or their JV partner on account of service, product, or what have you is entirely irrelevant in the face of profitability.
Last edited by winginit on Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 763
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Should AA, DL & United............

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:51 pm

The beauty of free market competition is you have the ability to buy a ticket on any airline you want that serves the city pair you want to fly between. There are plenty of people that have no problem flying on US3 carriers. You can rail on them all you want, and numerous studies have ranked their international service against foreign carriers, but don’t you think proposing they cut all int’l service just because you don’t personally care for their widebody service is just a tiny bit extreme? This thread reads like one of those clickbait ads you see at the bottom of webpages...
 
winginit
Posts: 2504
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Should AA, DL & United............

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:53 pm

dc10lover wrote:
One thought I have. JetBlue Airways should run ONLY Mint Service on International flights.


So... you mean like exactly what British Airways already does with their JFKLCY flight?

dc10lover wrote:
Hint: You do want to attract Business Travelers.


My god you should be a consultant!
 
AAirbusCA
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:08 pm

Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:14 pm

Thankfully this will never happen due to the Scope provisions of the union contracts at the major US airlines
 
xxcr
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:16 pm

NO, that would be a lot of revenue being thrown out.
 
ilovelamp
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:45 am

Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:19 pm

AAirbusCA wrote:
Thankfully this will never happen due to the Scope provisions of the union contracts at the major US airlines


Bingo. Plus at least one of those 3 is making inroads on the international service front.


ILL
 
ilovelamp
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:45 am

Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:20 pm

AAirbusCA wrote:
Thankfully this will never happen due to the Scope provisions of the union contracts at the major US airlines


Duplicate
 
dc10lover
Topic Author
Posts: 1531
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Should AA, DL & United............

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:23 pm

dc10lover wrote:
One thought I have. JetBlue Airways should run ONLY Mint Service on International flights. Hint: You do want to attract Business Travelers.

Hey, maybe on domestic flights as well.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:08 pm

I am not sure I agree with the statement for TATL flights. I can't speak to AA, UA, but I find DL's service quite good on TATL flights. Heck, BA was the one that tested giving economy passengers one mini candy bar as the pre-arrival snack on certain TATL flights as a cost saving measure (thank goodness that did not last). On SAS, you get one drink with your meal and everything else you have to pay for (including snacks).

In terms of seating, there's really not much difference either. For those with 777's, they're all going to 10 across (except DL) and 31" pitch.

In terms of TPAC, not sure.
 
PA101
Posts: 326
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Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:25 pm

I actually enjoyed my last TATL flights on Delta and would prefer them without any hesitation over LH.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2454
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Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:30 pm

Umm...

Just look at mainland PRC:
MU better than DL? Probably not
CZ better than AA? Not really (CX is better than AA, though).
CA better than UA? A big no.

And while being American-centric, do you really think there will be no complaints from Americans on "bad English from cabin crew", unpalatable food, etc.?

Oh, and what about countries with no "partner"? i.e. somebody loyal to Skyteam fly with who to Japan? KE?

Now on shorter flights, so I guess you must fly with AC (or WS) to Canada? AC is not that much better than UA, and WS doesn't have premium class for the most part. What about Mexico? Going to CUN = fly with AM?
 
J343
Posts: 213
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Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:59 pm

In all honesty, I would rather take AA over BA on TATL flights. If AA wants to serve India, Africa or the Middle East, they can leave it to BA, IB and QR.

I can't speak for UA but heard they are improving. I haven't flown DL in years, pre-NW merger I think and they weren't exactly the best.
 
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United787
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Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:17 pm

Short answer, absolutely not.

Long answer, I have flown a number of foreign carriers for long haul including AF, LH, TK, SQ, NH, TG (plus a lot more short-haul) and didn't really find them superior to UA with the exception of NH which was amazing but it was my first time in business class and I was on my honeymoon so I was a little excited. Also flown TW and PA but that doesn't count anymore.

I think the only thing the Asian airlines have on UA might be a more consistent soft product, F/As tend to be more consistently friendly. But I have had amazing service on UA and I think it is more and more consistent. The European airlines are just as much hit and miss on that front. Plus, if you are in E, for the money, nothing beats the value of E+. I don't care how pretty and nice SQ's F/As are, if I don't have the extra legroom that E+ gives me, forget it.

But this is all subjective. If you want more objectivity, I would look at the numbers. UA and DL (and somewhat AA) are not only holding their own across the Atlantic and Pacific, their financials are stronger than most of the world. If they were so bad, you wouldn't be seeing them doing so well! UA and DL have networks that PA and TW could have only dreamed of.

I have said this before on here and I will say it again. It took a long time post deregulation for things to settle out with the US airline industry. But, through consolidation, some Chapter 11s and lot of trail and error, I think it is safe to say they have finally become financially healthy. The US3 have figured out how to both compete with the LCCs at their own hubs and with the Asian and European airlines across the oceans and make a boat load of money doing it.

Lastly, I will say IMHO, Americans can be a lot harder on their own airlines and aren't as loyal to their flag carriers. I don't think the same holds true for people in other countries. I think there is more nationalistic pride about their country's "flag carriers".
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2454
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:52 pm

United787 wrote:
Lastly, I will say IMHO, Americans can be a lot harder on their own airlines and aren't as loyal to their flag carriers. I don't think the same holds true for people in other countries. I think there is more nationalistic pride about their country's "flag carriers".


Go ask somebody in HK how they feel about Cathay Pacific (aka "LCC service at a premium price") or Singaporean about SQ (aka "Overrated and definitely nothing special to be #1"), you'll find that it's not just Americans that are hard on their own airlines. It's all about familiarity (since they fly with the local-base airline way more than some foreign one) more than anything (Ok, that and the grass is somehow always greener on the other side).

If anything, fly a trip in Euro-business and one will quickly realize that US carriers are not all that bad.
 
PA101
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:28 am

Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:30 pm

United787 wrote:
Lastly, I will say IMHO, Americans can be a lot harder on their own airlines and aren't as loyal to their flag carriers. I don't think the same holds true for people in other countries. I think there is more nationalistic pride about their country's "flag carriers".


I don’t know about that. In my opinion, most people seem do be very critical of their dominant home carriers. I always bitch about LH, as they funnel all their German pax via FRA and MUC and always seem to be pricier than the competition (ex Germany). I also loathe their poor intra-European service standard. The longhaul flights I have been taking in the past (when FRA-PDX was still around, I used it quite often) were mediocre at best (it’s been a while though). Accordingly, I find Deltas service in recent years much better, and prefer them on flights to the US. I pretty much heard the same from Australians bitching about Qantas.

On the other hand: they probably „own“ the corporate contracts in their home countries due the amounts of flights available and therefore have a simple advantage there and don’t need to cater to their other customers as much.

But I also agree: I always feel good seeing a LH-plane somewhere abroad. I don’t know why, it just feels good... LOL
 
J343
Posts: 213
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Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:59 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
United787 wrote:
Lastly, I will say IMHO, Americans can be a lot harder on their own airlines and aren't as loyal to their flag carriers. I don't think the same holds true for people in other countries. I think there is more nationalistic pride about their country's "flag carriers".


Go ask somebody in HK how they feel about Cathay Pacific (aka "LCC service at a premium price") or Singaporean about SQ (aka "Overrated and definitely nothing special to be #1"), you'll find that it's not just Americans that are hard on their own airlines. It's all about familiarity (since they fly with the local-base airline way more than some foreign one) more than anything (Ok, that and the grass is somehow always greener on the other side).

If anything, fly a trip in Euro-business and one will quickly realize that US carriers are not all that bad.



I agree with Euro business. The US3 has better domestic J and F product wise. Service wise, BA wins hands down. LH and AF and KL can be a hit and miss. BA is my home carrier and I do mean about them quite a lot, as I said earlier, I would pick AA over BA anyway for TATL flights and I always fly with CX/ QR when me and my partner go to Asia. Saying that though, when flying home from the USA, I sometimes prefer flying with BA as it does make me feel like home the minute I step inside the plane. Also, BA crew have better attitude compared to AA crew but again, CX crew beats both. I know I am biased with my preference towards CX, I have flown with so many airlines over the years and CX have always won my heart, QF, AA, QR follows. Despite the praises SQ and EK gets from the media, I never really liked their product or service. Personally, I find CX, BR, JL to have better service than SQ. QR is overrated as hell but still find them better than EK and EY. AA on the other hand isn't as bad as the majority says, it's the crew attitude that puts them down.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2398
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Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:31 am

dc10lover wrote:
Just leave International flights to their partner airlines. They are way better than AA, DL & UA on International flights.


While I would have agreed with you 10 years ago, I definitely do not agree with you today. Euro carriers have gotten equally crappy as American carriers an in some cases worse. I would take DL over most Euro carriers. I just got off a r/t Air France transatlantic flight and I thought their A380 was going to fall apart in mid flight. This plane was in BAD condition. Something you would not see on DL. I don't think AFR has put a penny into these A380s since they were delivered. While their cabin crew were good, meal service was substandard and not very appealing. Something a French carrier should not be delivering on.
 
dc10lover
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Should AA, DL & UA leave international flights to partner airlines?

Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:28 pm

United Airlines can draw more passengers to SFO then fly Singapore Airlines to Singapore. From Chicago CX to Hongkong for AA.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.

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