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Geminijets101
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Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:36 pm

or will Avior or Conviasa grow a lot more?
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compensateme
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:41 pm

Wouldn’t you agree that Venezuela has a lot more things to worry about than having a “new, better, flag carrier?”
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Geminijets101
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:42 pm

compensateme wrote:
Wouldn’t you agree that Venezuela has a lot more things to worry about than having a “new, better, flag carrier?”




I know, I'm just saying for the future, 2025 maybe.
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compensateme
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:47 pm

It’s estimated that at least 2/3 of the population doesn’t have access to even purchase an appropriate amount of food, and 90% of the population lives in poverty. Somehow I don’t think 6 years will even scratch the surface of the current crisis.

The demand to Venezuela is best served through foreign airlines.
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BWIAirport
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:47 pm

Geminijets101 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Wouldn’t you agree that Venezuela has a lot more things to worry about than having a “new, better, flag carrier?”




I know, I'm just saying for the future, 2025 maybe.

A new/improved airline would not necessarily be a priority or even the responsibility of any restored government; rather, the product of an improved and freer economy.
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TWA772LR
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:11 pm

We'll revisit the issue if there is a Venezuela in 2025.

But back on topic, isn't Conviasa the flag carrier?
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FlyRow
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:14 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
We'll revisit the issue if there is a Venezuela in 2025.

But back on topic, isn't Conviasa the flag carrier?


And is that a bad airline, or can't it really work in the current situation. Don't see the need for a new airline.
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Noise
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:24 pm

Venezuela is going to need a lot more than a new flag carrier.

It's going to need to completely annihilate the last vestiges of socialism in its society first...then it can focus on redeveloping its airline industry.
 
Nick123
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:27 pm

Geographically speaking, Carcas has the perfect location for a transit hub between south and central/North America. I’d say, even better than Panama City.

Also, Venezuela has a much bigger local market and much bigger potential for European flights.

In a hypothetical scenario (where Caracas’ get a new terminal to handle the traffic), a Venezuelan carrier could pose a huge threat to Copa and Avianca.
 
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OA940
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:51 pm

Nick123 wrote:
Geographically speaking, Carcas has the perfect location for a transit hub between south and central/North America. I’d say, even better than Panama City.

Also, Venezuela has a much bigger local market and much bigger potential for European flights.

In a hypothetical scenario (where Caracas’ get a new terminal to handle the traffic), a Venezuelan carrier could pose a huge threat to Copa and Avianca.


Only problem is that Venezuela is kind of circling the drain as it is, and that's not a thing a country recovers from in a couple of years like an airline may do, as well as the fact that many foreigners view the country as unsafe to even transit through (I don't know if that's true, but at least a few people seem to think so).

So I guess it's not all that simple.
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dcajet
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:55 pm

People don't seem to realize the depth of the destruction that the chavistas will leave behind. Venezuela as we knew it is gone; it will take decades to rebuild infrastructures such as oil production; the country no longer produces basic items such as food staples, and to make matters worse, whole segments of its population have been indoctrinated and turned into clients of the state for handouts of food. Lawlessness, squatting, violence and class hatred have been inoculated to those most in need. It will take 1 or 2 generations to re educate parts of the Venezuelan society. Add to this the fact that Venezuela is a single crop country: oil; and that part of its future production has been mortgaged away to China and Russia.

Against that backdrop, I don't think a national airline/flag carrier is a priority. Foreign carriers can fill the void in the meantime.
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Channex757
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:59 pm

Plenty of uneducated and knee-jerk commenting going on.

By the same token Ethiopian should not exist with all the famine there......?

In the real world, airlines are vital. Foreign currency needs to be earned and there needs to be stable service to and from recovering countries to stimulate business. Just as happened with Iran with the Obama deal, investors and business people flocked to the country to see what deals were ready to be signed. It's a mobile industry where assets can quickly be brought in as long as infrastructure permits. So yes, Venezuela will get a stable flag carrier and also fast. Might be an existing one that gets privatised or a new company but the need will be instant and ongoing.

Someone in the region will be waiting with plans for just this.
 
Karlsands
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:14 pm

How would we know
 
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Byron1976
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:22 pm

I don't see coming a "New Conviasa" if Venezuela get a new political direction. I see Avianca taking over the venezuelan market.
 
SuperiorPilotMe
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:44 pm

No because it’s going to be decades before order is restored.
 
dcajet
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:01 pm

And while we wonder if Venezuela will have a new airline in the future, Maduro is a busy bee, apparently sending the country's gold to Russia. Second such flight this week. This time a 757F belonging to a Russian airline named E-Cargo, CCS-SAL-CMN-VKO. The plane arrived yesterday inbound from VKO and DXB.

https://twitter.com/lb_SFO/status/1091832087001280512
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jcancel
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:07 pm

A lot of poor African countries created flag carriers to help connect domestic destinations (as road networks were often poor or dangerous) and used international routes to make money.

However I'm not sure if this applies to Venezuela...
 
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LH748
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:32 pm

It's quite impressive how the Venezuelan government managed to ruin their own country despite having the largest oil reserves in the world. CCS could be a prosperous hub connecting South and Central America to Europe and the Middle East just like IKA could have the role of DXB if certain political developments had been different.

I hope that Venezuela can find a somewhat peaceful transition into a future with fewer poverty and building up an airline is definitely part of that process. There's not really much brand recognition for Conviasa I would say so it barely makes a difference if they restructure Conviasa or start from scratch with a new airline.
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jcancel
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:36 pm

They could use the Viasa name, or they might just start a new...

LH748 wrote:
It's quite impressive how the Venezuelan government managed to ruin their own country despite having the largest oil reserves in the world. CCS could be a prosperous hub connecting South and Central America to Europe and the Middle East just like IKA could have the role of DXB if certain political developments had been different.

I hope that Venezuela can find a somewhat peaceful transition into a future with fewer poverty and building up an airline is definitely part of that process. There's not really much brand recognition for Conviasa I would say so it barely makes a difference if they restructure Conviasa or start from scratch with a new airline.
 
pipeafcr
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:04 am

Avior is shaping up to be a decent player in the Venezuelan airline market, and their holding company is currently moving to open a subsidiary in Colombia, they may as well be the new de-facto flag carrier. Also I wouldn't be surprised if AV or Latam open a national carrier in Venezuela after the situation in the country gets better
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dcajet
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:22 am

LH748 wrote:
There's not really much brand recognition for Conviasa I would say so it barely makes a difference if they restructure Conviasa or start from scratch with a new airline.


The Conviasa brand is hopelessly tainted by the regime. It is a chavista creation that failed to live up to expectations, and is a den of corruption. There is nothing to salvage there. The Venezuelan people can and will come up with something better.
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:00 am

There's numerous expats in Miami with plenty of money. If things stabilize I could easily see one of them jumping into the business. Could be Viasa again, I used to live in Caracas and flew them all the time. Always on the Diesel 8s, never managed to get on a DC-10 nor one of the Convairs.
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Boston757
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:01 am

Well on that not, I have had pilots on our flights, MIA-CCS to repo the Conviasa. Not that its easy to do so,they must take a Physical so to speak,blood test and have their FAA licence transferred over to VZ to fly the aircraft out. Needless to say we see them in a day or to,due to denial.
 
Boston757
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:05 am

Well on that note, often I have had the reopo pilots on my my flights to fly back Conviasa aircraft.
 
ME720
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:48 am

Channex757 wrote:
Plenty of uneducated and knee-jerk commenting going on.

By the same token Ethiopian should not exist with all the famine there......?

In the real world, airlines are vital. Foreign currency needs to be earned and there needs to be stable service to and from recovering countries to stimulate business. Just as happened with Iran with the Obama deal, investors and business people flocked to the country to see what deals were ready to be signed. It's a mobile industry where assets can quickly be brought in as long as infrastructure permits. So yes, Venezuela will get a stable flag carrier and also fast. Might be an existing one that gets privatised or a new company but the need will be instant and ongoing.

Someone in the region will be waiting with plans for just this.



The famine in Ethiopia was over 35 years ago. ET at that time was a shadow of what it is today.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:16 am

ME720 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Plenty of uneducated and knee-jerk commenting going on.

By the same token Ethiopian should not exist with all the famine there......?

In the real world, airlines are vital. Foreign currency needs to be earned and there needs to be stable service to and from recovering countries to stimulate business. Just as happened with Iran with the Obama deal, investors and business people flocked to the country to see what deals were ready to be signed. It's a mobile industry where assets can quickly be brought in as long as infrastructure permits. So yes, Venezuela will get a stable flag carrier and also fast. Might be an existing one that gets privatised or a new company but the need will be instant and ongoing.

Someone in the region will be waiting with plans for just this.



The famine in Ethiopia was over 35 years ago. ET at that time was a shadow of what it is today.


Thank you. I was also going to point out how utterly ridiculous that analogy is. Sure, Ethiopia may be a poor country, but there certainly is no famine at this time.
 
Nick123
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:20 pm

It won’t take dacedaes as many people think. People’s perception change fast. I remember back until early 2000’s no one would even dare transit thru Colombia and look at what it is now.
It would take less than 10 years (in a hypothetical scenario) to change all that.
I personally think that it would be a mistake to allow a foreign player like Copa or Avianca to take over CCS as a base.

CCS has many advantages over Bogota (namely elevation & weather) and Panama (slightly better geographical location + much bigger local market). We could see a Venezuela “Copa” in the coming years, with the difference that a Venezuelan carrier could also have long-haul to Europe unlike copa that only flies Embraer and 737’s.
 
dcajet
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:40 pm

Nick123 wrote:
It won’t take dacedaes as many people think. People’s perception change fast. I remember back until early 2000’s no one would even dare transit thru Colombia and look at what it is now.
It would take less than 10 years (in a hypothetical scenario) to change all that.
I personally think that it would be a mistake to allow a foreign player like Copa or Avianca to take over CCS as a base.

CCS has many advantages over Bogota (namely elevation & weather) and Panama (slightly better geographical location + much bigger local market). We could see a Venezuela “Copa” in the coming years, with the difference that a Venezuelan carrier could also have long-haul to Europe unlike copa that only flies Embraer and 737’s.


Except that Colombia has never been governed by a band of thieves posing as the saviors of the nation. For all its troubles with violence & drug trafficking, Colombia has always been a remarkably well administered country that never broke the rule of democracy & law, as imperfect as it may have been. Its solid economy is a testament to that.

Venezuelans, OTH, have squandered the country's wealth and fallen for a delusional snake oil salesman and his even nuttier successor. It will take way more than ten years to have an acceptably functional state up and running once again.
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dcajet
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:54 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Thank you. I was also going to point out how utterly ridiculous that analogy is. Sure, Ethiopia may be a poor country, but there certainly is no famine at this time.


Ethiopia is one (if not the) of the fastest growing countries in the world, 10.2% in 2017, expected to be 8.5% in 2018. While still a poor country, things are immensely better than in the 80s. And lets not forget that Ethiopian has been a remarkably and consistently well managed airline throughout the years. Today's success is not capricious or came out of the blue.
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9w748capt
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:35 pm

dcajet wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Thank you. I was also going to point out how utterly ridiculous that analogy is. Sure, Ethiopia may be a poor country, but there certainly is no famine at this time.


Ethiopia is one (if not the) of the fastest growing countries in the world, 10.2% in 2017, expected to be 8.5% in 2018. While still a poor country, things are immensely better than in the 80s. And lets not forget that Ethiopian has been a remarkably and consistently well managed airline throughout the years. Today's success is not capricious or came out of the blue.


Oh yeah for sure. Not to mention ET is a solid airline with a quality product. The doro wot at their ADD lounge was phenomenal. Makes me want to actually visit Ethiopia someday.
 
vuelti24
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:08 pm

This is an aviation website...so I think it´s ok to question if Venezuela needs a new and better flag carrier...the other (big) problems that Venezuela have are not to be discussed here.
In my opinion, Caracas (in other circunstances) has potential to compete with other hubs of the region (PTY,BOG) for a piece of that cake...but first...the situation in the country need to improve a lot...
 
MIAspotter
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Re: Will Venezuela get a new, better flag carrier if order is restored?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:33 pm

Ahhh, how many times I have dreamt of being a billionnaire, and being able to make a deal with Iberia to regain the rights to use the VIASA brand.

My reborn Viasa will of course make CCS a hub and with a modern fleet of Airbus aircraft (Yes, I love Airbus) to cover a smart network of routes. (and would of course seek to join one of the major alliances)

ATR for domestic routes
A220 / A320 for domestic and regional flights
A330 or A350 for high density regional routes and intercontinental routes.

As for the livery, I saw a photo on the web and kinda liked this one:

http://fav.me/d9jknyn

Only change I would make, is refresh the titles.

Onboard service will be top notch, Business, Premium Eco, and Eco with the latest IFE and good catering showcasing local Venezuelan dishes. (providing such thing can be achieved in-flight)

It´s all a dream, but hey, they are free right?

MIAspotter
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