ukflyer1999
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Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:08 am

Many African carriers have recently stated their intention to start direct flights to London-
e.g.
- Air Namibia: Windhoek-Accra-London
- TAAG Angola Airlines: Luanda-London
- Air Peace: Lagos-London
- Air Tanzania: Dar Es Salaam-London
- Uganda Airlines: Entebbe-London
- Zimbabwe Airways: Harare-London

What do people think the likelihood of these routes actually stating is and what would their frequencies look like? Also would they likely fly from Gatwick or Heathrow?

Are there any other African carriers people can see starting flights to London in the future, e.g. Camair-Co or Air Senegal?

Sources:
Air Namibia
https://www.namibian.com.na/72355/read/ ... ndon-route
TAAG Angola Airlines
https://allafrica.com/stories/201805090751.html
 
SCQ83
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:19 am

I could see more flights between the UK and Morocco.

For instance, Air Arabia Maroc flying to LGW from Agadir. Or Ryanair starting Stansted to Ouarzazate.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:28 am

BA LGW-SID?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
yuomi
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:28 am

Issues here are, as ever, going to be capacity and cash.

LHR probably could not accommodate all of those routes, nor do all those airlines have cash sufficient to obtain the slots (I'd go as far as saying only TAAG and possibly Namibia have deep enough pockets, and the latter only barely).

As for the others, Virgin and BA both serve Lagos successfully and a succession of Nigerian carriers - the latest being Arik, who are still trying to convince everyone they're viable internationally despite having culled all their intercon routes and continually deferring delivery of LH frames - have tried and failed to challenge.

I can't see that there'd be enough demand for direct routes to Tanzania and Uganda, especially given Kenyan and Ethiopian both have excellent links to both and onward flights timed accordingly.

Harare can be reached with Ethiopian and via South Africa. Air Zimbabwe have tried LGW before and could again, but I wouldn't be hopeful.

Just my 2¢.
 
dabc
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:32 am

ALG-LGW and ORN-LGW could be summer routes

Air Algerie has planned some years ago to launch ALG-LGW. During summer, AH is linking ALG to LHR on daily basis and as it is difficult to have new slots in LHR, opening ALG-LGW in summer is a good option
 
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flyingphil
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:36 am

Of the Airlines mentioned I would have thought TAAG is the only one with a realistic chance of starting direct flights to London. Its not impossible for TAAG to aquire slots at Heathrow, but I would have thought Gatwick or Stansted more likely.

Having visited Namibia some time ago I doubt it has the population to support direct flights to London, it has links to Germany as was originally a colony of theirs.

The others mentioned probably have the demand.. but not sure the airlines have the resources to successfully maintain direct flights to London.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:37 am

dabc wrote:
ALG-LGW and ORN-LGW could be summer routes

Air Algerie has planned some years ago to launch ALG-LGW. During summer, AH is linking ALG to LHR on daily basis and as it is difficult to have new slots in LHR, opening ALG-LGW in summer is a good option


What is the market between DZ and London? Is there any relevant VFR?

2travel2know2 wrote:
BA LGW-SID?


Cabo Verde is indeed growing as a holiday destination for Europeans. Thomas Cook and TUI already fly to London.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:38 am

Deep Africa is a market that is extremely underserved from a global city like London. Part of that is because Africa has few 1st tier global cities and airlines like BA or Virgin like sticking to only the biggest markets. Secondly airlines in Africa are known to be examples of how not to run a business bar few exceptions.

Accra is undeserved and since Ghana hasn't got an airline capable of flying to London, it would have to a be a 5th freedom flight to another point in Africa.

Windhoek is a high yield leisure destination and BA is well position to serve this market 2-3x a week. Connections from Germany and Netherlands should alone fill up such flight.

Lagos and Abuja are also underserved with only three daily flights to the UK and could support additional services following MedView's withdrawal.

Luanda will not work due to current oil prices and therefore lack of demand. TAAG is not an airline focused on profit however so who knows they might start a service to London in the future.

Abijan is the one that surprises me, very stable economy with fast growing GDP. ABJ has double digit growth every year yet no flights to London.

Smaller cities also have potential but perhaps better served by next generation aircraft such as A321XLR.
 
uta999
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:51 am

What Africa needs is a NEO or MAX based group airline, run by IAG (or LH, AF/KLM) called Air Afrique. It previously ran from 1961 - 2002

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Afrique
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peterinlisbon
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:05 am

Why does Nigeria get a new airline every few years? They're going to run out of names: Air Nigeria, Nigeria Airways, Nigeria Air....
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:14 am

Will TAAG Angola Airlines be allowed to fly to London ? I believe they have restrictions on where they can fly because of their safety record ...
 
dredgy
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:22 am

There was word on the ground last year that Mauritania Airlines wanted to start flights to London rather than Paris. I can’t see it happening, but the idea was definitely floated.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:42 am

lhrsfosyd wrote:
Deep Africa is a market that is extremely underserved from a global city like London. Part of that is because Africa has few 1st tier global cities and airlines like BA or Virgin like sticking to only the biggest markets.


AF/KL give pretty good coverage.

lhrsfosyd wrote:
BA or Virgin like sticking to only the biggest markets.


That's a predictable market response when there aren't enough airport runway/concourse resources (call it slots as a shorthand if you want) and what's available effectively gets rationed by price.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:01 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
Deep Africa is a market that is extremely underserved from a global city like London. Part of that is because Africa has few 1st tier global cities and airlines like BA or Virgin like sticking to only the biggest markets.


AF/KL give pretty good coverage.

lhrsfosyd wrote:
BA or Virgin like sticking to only the biggest markets.


That's a predictable market response when there aren't enough airport runway/concourse resources (call it slots as a shorthand if you want) and what's available effectively gets rationed by price.


Business travellers generally prefer non stop options and LHR also gives access to a large TATL network. There's plenty of opportunities in Africa but it's all rationed by LHR slots.
 
Arion640
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:13 pm

What would Air Zimbabwe fly to london with anyway? They have the 767-200ER but that’s about it.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

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eicvd
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:31 pm

[list=][/list]
Arion640 wrote:
What would Air Zimbabwe fly to london with anyway? They have the 767-200ER but that’s about it.

They were very close to taking a 772, not sure if they did take it or the deal fell through.
COYBIB
 
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3BNBE
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:39 pm

Maybe Virgin Atlantic could restart flights between LHR and MRU, or maybe have MAN-LHR-MRU flights, since Britain is a great market for Mauritius' tourism, with more than 300,000 passengers flying yearly between the 2 countries, with Emirates having a great share though. Air Mauritius operates 3-4 weekly flights to Heathrow(soon with an A330-900) and British Airways has 3 flights from April to October and 5 flights during Northern Winter from Gatwick with its B777-200ER. TUI also operates a weekly flight(B787) from Gatwick all year long while Thomas Cook operates bi-weekly cruise charters to Mauritius from Manchester and LGW
 
mapletux
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:53 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:


Lagos and Abuja are also underserved with only three daily flights to the UK and could support additional services following MedView's withdrawal.



The current agreement between the two governments allows for six flights a day with the Nigerian government not willing to allow UK carriers more than half even when Nigerian carriers are unable to pick up their half. BA would love to go double daily to LOS and possibly expand to PHC but that can't happen without a corresponding increase in flights originating from Nigeria.
 
dabc
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:24 pm

SCQ83 wrote:

What is the market between DZ and London? Is there any relevant VFR?



130K Pax in 2017

AH : ALG-LHR, Daily during summer (B738/A332), 5 flights per week during Winter
BA : ALG-LGW, 6 flights per week in summer (319/320, even a 772 was used in summer 2017 for one or 2 flights in august), 5 flights per week during Winter

https://www.caa.co.uk/
 
SCQ83
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:30 pm

dabc wrote:
AH : ALG-LHR, Daily during summer (B738/A332), 5 flights per week during Winter
BA : ALG-LGW, 6 flights per week in summer (319/320, even a 772 was used in summer 2017 for one or 2 flights in august), 5 flights per week during Winter

https://www.caa.co.uk/


Thanks. But what is the main driver of those flights? VFR? Oil? There is no tourism in Algeria.

I thought all the Algerian VFR community lived either in France, Montréal or Alicante :)
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:21 pm

mapletux wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:


Lagos and Abuja are also underserved with only three daily flights to the UK and could support additional services following MedView's withdrawal.



The current agreement between the two governments allows for six flights a day with the Nigerian government not willing to allow UK carriers more than half even when Nigerian carriers are unable to pick up their half. BA would love to go double daily to LOS and possibly expand to PHC but that can't happen without a corresponding increase in flights originating from Nigeria.


Perhaps BA should set up a small subsidiary in Nigeria.
 
dopplerd
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:38 pm

It would be interesting to see if an airline could make it in Africa by adopting an Wow Air type model. Through establishment of a single hub (ABV or NDJ) in the middle of the continent the use of MAX and NEO narrowbodies would easily be able to get to Europe and Southern Africa. Flights could be hubbed so that a single connection would allow for travel to/from most major areas in Africa to most major areas in Europe. It would take a lot of capitalization and cooperation between countries. So many of the carriers from countries in Southern Africa have failed because they need to buy a huge, expensive plane with the legs to get to Europe but then can’t afford it because of low yields. A fleet of narrowbodies with a set of diversified destinations around a single hub could make a go of it.
 
sw733
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:39 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Will TAAG Angola Airlines be allowed to fly to London ? I believe they have restrictions on where they can fly because of their safety record ...

I know they have had issues in the past, but I was under the impression that those were solved with the 777-300s they have. They do fly regularly to Lisbon and Porto, and (perhaps ignorantly) I assumed that meant they could fly elsewhere in Europe as well...but obviously Portugal would be their largest market.
 
sw733
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:41 pm

yuomi wrote:
LHR probably could not accommodate all of those routes, nor do all those airlines have cash sufficient to obtain the slots (I'd go as far as saying only TAAG and possibly Namibia have deep enough pockets, and the latter only barely)


I personally don't see SW at LHR. They did do LGW for a while (usually via FRA), but I'm not sure if they were ever at LHR...at least I know that I have never flown them to LHR, only LGW.

Just not sure they have the money (or need) for LHR. They don't pull a ton of non-European connections, and those that they do pull can do so easily via FRA.
 
ukflyer1999
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:48 pm

sw733 wrote:
yuomi wrote:
LHR probably could not accommodate all of those routes, nor do all those airlines have cash sufficient to obtain the slots (I'd go as far as saying only TAAG and possibly Namibia have deep enough pockets, and the latter only barely)


I personally don't see SW at LHR. They did do LGW for a while (usually via FRA), but I'm not sure if they were ever at LHR...at least I know that I have never flown them to LHR, only LGW.

Just not sure they have the money (or need) for LHR. They don't pull a ton of non-European connections, and those that they do pull can do so easily via FRA.


Maybe this is why they are looking at flying Windhoek to London via Accra? Ghana is seeking a new flight to London other than BA’s daily flight. The article also suggests this route will have the potential to carry 209000 passengers per annum vs 120000 on the Frankfurt route.

https://www.namibian.com.na/72355/read/ ... ndon-route

Ghana have also engaged both SAA and Ethiopian on starting a Accra to London route recently.
 
dabc
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:07 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
dabc wrote:
AH : ALG-LHR, Daily during summer (B738/A332), 5 flights per week during Winter
BA : ALG-LGW, 6 flights per week in summer (319/320, even a 772 was used in summer 2017 for one or 2 flights in august), 5 flights per week during Winter

https://www.caa.co.uk/


Thanks. But what is the main driver of those flights? VFR? Oil? There is no tourism in Algeria.

I thought all the Algerian VFR community lived either in France, Montréal or Alicante :)


Business and Algerian community which is growing in UK since the 90s
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:34 pm

sw733 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Will TAAG Angola Airlines be allowed to fly to London ? I believe they have restrictions on where they can fly because of their safety record ...

I know they have had issues in the past, but I was under the impression that those were solved with the 777-300s they have. They do fly regularly to Lisbon and Porto, and (perhaps ignorantly) I assumed that meant they could fly elsewhere in Europe as well...but obviously Portugal would be their largest market.



As of June 2018 they are partly banned and seems to only fly to Lisbon and Porto in Europe. They also fly to Brazil, China and Cuba in adittion to countries in Africa.
 
sw733
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:42 pm

Mortyman wrote:
sw733 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Will TAAG Angola Airlines be allowed to fly to London ? I believe they have restrictions on where they can fly because of their safety record ...

I know they have had issues in the past, but I was under the impression that those were solved with the 777-300s they have. They do fly regularly to Lisbon and Porto, and (perhaps ignorantly) I assumed that meant they could fly elsewhere in Europe as well...but obviously Portugal would be their largest market.



As of June 2018 they are partly banned and seems to only fly to Lisbon and Porto in Europe. They also fly to Brazil, China and Cuba in adittion to countries in Africa.


Interesting. I was under the impression that everything EXCEPT for the 777-300 was banned from Europe, but that the 777-300 had free reign. Guess I was wrong. Wonder why they can go to Portugal but not elsewhere.
 
Andy33
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:09 pm

Mortyman wrote:
sw733 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Will TAAG Angola Airlines be allowed to fly to London ? I believe they have restrictions on where they can fly because of their safety record ...

I know they have had issues in the past, but I was under the impression that those were solved with the 777-300s they have. They do fly regularly to Lisbon and Porto, and (perhaps ignorantly) I assumed that meant they could fly elsewhere in Europe as well...but obviously Portugal would be their largest market.



As of June 2018 they are partly banned and seems to only fly to Lisbon and Porto in Europe. They also fly to Brazil, China and Cuba in adittion to countries in Africa.


As of now, there are no restrictions on where the 777-300s can fly in Europe:
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes/ai ... /search_en
TAAG are also allowed to use certain 772s, and which routes they choose to fly are their commercial decision not imposed from Brussels
 
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PM
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:22 pm

I live in Windhoek. There was a rumour going around here some weeks back that it would be Windhoek-Harare-London. Maybe now via Accra. Hard to see both.

Hard to see either...
 
findingnema
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:35 pm

sw733 wrote:
yuomi wrote:
LHR probably could not accommodate all of those routes, nor do all those airlines have cash sufficient to obtain the slots (I'd go as far as saying only TAAG and possibly Namibia have deep enough pockets, and the latter only barely)


I personally don't see SW at LHR. They did do LGW for a while (usually via FRA), but I'm not sure if they were ever at LHR...at least I know that I have never flown them to LHR, only LGW.

Just not sure they have the money (or need) for LHR. They don't pull a ton of non-European connections, and those that they do pull can do so easily via FRA.


They were at Heathrow for many years out of Terminal 1 until about 2009 when they sold their slots on. Namibia is quite a difficult market to sell out of London, due to no historic or cultural links, unlike from Germany and the Netherlands. A few weekly flights may well stimulate demand, particularly with some well-placed codeshares or maybe as a tag from a secondary German city.
My postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent my employer’s positions, strategies or opinions
 
Ryga
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:51 pm

LGW-ZNZ seems likely, with TUI opening hotels there and their other airlines operating to the island.
 
sw733
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:55 pm

findingnema wrote:
sw733 wrote:
yuomi wrote:
LHR probably could not accommodate all of those routes, nor do all those airlines have cash sufficient to obtain the slots (I'd go as far as saying only TAAG and possibly Namibia have deep enough pockets, and the latter only barely)


I personally don't see SW at LHR. They did do LGW for a while (usually via FRA), but I'm not sure if they were ever at LHR...at least I know that I have never flown them to LHR, only LGW.

Just not sure they have the money (or need) for LHR. They don't pull a ton of non-European connections, and those that they do pull can do so easily via FRA.


They were at Heathrow for many years out of Terminal 1 until about 2009 when they sold their slots on. Namibia is quite a difficult market to sell out of London, due to no historic or cultural links, unlike from Germany and the Netherlands. A few weekly flights may well stimulate demand, particularly with some well-placed codeshares or maybe as a tag from a secondary German city.


Are you sure it was Heathrow? I know that's about the time they bailed out of Gatwick, but IF they flew to Heathrow (which they very well may have), I just don't remember it being that recently. My memory could be failing me, though.
 
sw733
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:58 pm

PM wrote:
I live in Windhoek. There was a rumour going around here some weeks back that it would be Windhoek-Harare-London. Maybe now via Accra. Hard to see both.

Hard to see either...


I could see Accra way more than Harare. The question is if they would continue a narrowbody up from ACC-LHR/LGW or replace the whole route with the A330 (and then, what happens to Lagos?)
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:00 pm

According to an article published on The East African today SAA may get the right to fly Entebbe - LHR:

"The data shows that close to 60,000 passengers travelled between Entebbe and London in 2017, with most of them making connections via Dubai using Emirates (20 per cent), with Kenya Airways taking 19 per cent of the passenger load via its Nairobi connection."
....
Last month, it emerged that South African Airlines was in advanced discussions with Uganda to be granted fifth freedom rights for the Entebbe-London route, which would offer a direct connecting flight on this route.


It would be great for SAA

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/busines ... index.html
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Air Uganda, Kenya Airways and Rwandair...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki
 
findingnema
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:28 pm

sw733 wrote:
findingnema wrote:
sw733 wrote:

I personally don't see SW at LHR. They did do LGW for a while (usually via FRA), but I'm not sure if they were ever at LHR...at least I know that I have never flown them to LHR, only LGW.

Just not sure they have the money (or need) for LHR. They don't pull a ton of non-European connections, and those that they do pull can do so easily via FRA.


They were at Heathrow for many years out of Terminal 1 until about 2009 when they sold their slots on. Namibia is quite a difficult market to sell out of London, due to no historic or cultural links, unlike from Germany and the Netherlands. A few weekly flights may well stimulate demand, particularly with some well-placed codeshares or maybe as a tag from a secondary German city.


Are you sure it was Heathrow? I know that's about the time they bailed out of Gatwick, but IF they flew to Heathrow (which they very well may have), I just don't remember it being that recently. My memory could be failing me, though.


Yes, their ticket desk was at Terminal 1, alongside other African airlines like SAA and Alliance Air. Variously over different years they had 767s, 747-SP and 747-400s on the route and on occasion it had an intermediate stop, I think at FRA.
My postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent my employer’s positions, strategies or opinions
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:35 pm

eastafspot wrote:
According to an article published on The East African today SAA may get the right to fly Entebbe - LHR:

"The data shows that close to 60,000 passengers travelled between Entebbe and London in 2017, with most of them making connections via Dubai using Emirates (20 per cent), with Kenya Airways taking 19 per cent of the passenger load via its Nairobi connection."
....
Last month, it emerged that South African Airlines was in advanced discussions with Uganda to be granted fifth freedom rights for the Entebbe-London route, which would offer a direct connecting flight on this route.


It would be great for SAA

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/busines ... index.html


This would be great and likely to be at London Heathrow as SAA already have slots there. Personally, I would like to see SAA operate 3x weekly Johannesburg-Entebbe-London Heathrow, 2x weekly Johannesburg-Luanda-London Heathrow and 2x weekly Johannesburg-Harare-London Heathrow. Then they would be able to serve multiple markets, charge a premium for going direct with no competition (unlike Johannesburg-London against BA and VS) as well as increasing cargo. What do you guys think about SAA doing this sort of routing?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:22 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
Business travellers generally prefer non stop options and LHR also gives access to a large TATL network. There's plenty of opportunities in Africa but it's all rationed by LHR slots.


However a large fraction of the demand for Africa is leisure, there are actually very few business travelers going to Africa.

SCQ83 wrote:
Thanks. But what is the main driver of those flights? VFR? Oil? There is no tourism in Algeria.


Not much, but it's an upcoming market for sun holidays. Algeria has a long Mediterranean coast line with plenty of beaches, perfect for a holiday in the sun. It's neighbouring countries Morocco and Tunesia attract quite a number of holiday makers, so why couldn't Algeria do the same? I could see TUI, Thomas Cook or Jet2 starting flights to Algiers or Oran or Annaba.
 
masgniw
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:29 pm

I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a DAR-LON flight underway. (But, I know that Air Tanzania didn't have any long-haul metal until this summer.) Between the recent history of British colonialism, a wealth of world-class tourism, and the growing energy sector, I'm surprised the closest direct option to LHR was AMS.
 
LH658
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:47 pm

Dar Es Salaam, NBO, Kinshasa, ACC, KRT
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:38 pm

Air Peace have also stated they want to launch Enugu to London as well as Lagos to London
 
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PM
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:02 am

masgniw wrote:
I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a DAR-LON flight underway. (But, I know that Air Tanzania didn't have any long-haul metal until this summer.) Between the recent history of British colonialism, a wealth of world-class tourism, and the growing energy sector, I'm surprised the closest direct option to LHR was AMS.

BA used to fly the route with a 767. Not sure when or why they stopped.
 
Flanker7
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Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:54 am

lhrsfosyd wrote:
Deep Africa is a market that is extremely underserved from a global city like London. Part of that is because Africa has few 1st tier global cities and airlines like BA or Virgin like sticking to only the biggest markets. Secondly airlines in Africa are known to be examples of how not to run a business bar few exceptions.

Accra is undeserved and since Ghana hasn't got an airline capable of flying to London, it would have to a be a 5th freedom flight to another point in Africa.

Windhoek is a high yield leisure destination and BA is well position to serve this market 2-3x a week. Connections from Germany and Netherlands should alone fill up such flight.

Lagos and Abuja are also underserved with only three daily flights to the UK and could support additional services following MedView's withdrawal.

Luanda will not work due to current oil prices and therefore lack of demand. TAAG is not an airline focused on profit however so who knows they might start a service to London in the future.

Abijan is the one that surprises me, very stable economy with fast growing GDP. ABJ has double digit growth every year yet no flights to London.

Smaller cities also have potential but perhaps better served by next generation aircraft such as A321XLR.



Windhoek is a high yield leisure destination and BA is well position to serve this market 2-3x a week. Connections from Germany and Netherlands should alone fill up such flight.

KLM already serves Windhoek trice weekly via Luanda so that targeting the Dutch market is unlikely. The flight is not even nonstop because of the demand.
Flying blue only if possible
 
masgniw
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:54 pm

PM wrote:
masgniw wrote:
I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a DAR-LON flight underway. (But, I know that Air Tanzania didn't have any long-haul metal until this summer.) Between the recent history of British colonialism, a wealth of world-class tourism, and the growing energy sector, I'm surprised the closest direct option to LHR was AMS.

BA used to fly the route with a 767. Not sure when or why they stopped.


Looks like it was suspended in 2013 due to lack of profitability and was bemoaned by a lot of tourists + Tanzanians. I'm wondering how much restarting this route can be credited to the economics of the 787 vs other issues.
 
Cunard
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:38 am

According to an article on ch.aviation (behind a paywall) and it states that ASKY Airlines are considering using the B737 MAX from their hub in Lome, Togo to London and Johannesburg, Gatwick will more than likely be their London airport.

The OP also missed

Nigerian Air...Lagos
Zambia Airways...Lusaka

Air Tanzania have already been quoted in saying that London LGW will be served once the airline receives it's second B788 in 2021.

Uganda Airlines have also stated that they intend starting Entebbe to LGW once they receive their A330s
which aren't scheduled to be delivered until the Q4 2019.

Also the Ghanaian government were recently stating that they wanted to resurrect the national carrier Ghana Airways and London was specifically mentioned.

Air Zimbabwe is a total mess as we already are well aware of and although the demand is there I can't see them resuming Harare to LGW for quite a while yet especially since the deal to acquire the four former Malaysian Airlines B772s fell through and their B762s won't be reliable enough to reopen the route.

Air Namibia is the airline that I can honestly see resuming flights to London in the near future and in particular LGW which they served up until 2009.

Sudan Airways have also recently commented on the fact that they would like to reinstate flights to London.

With regards to Air Arabia Moroc I can see them starting LGW to Agadir at some point especially as the airline has just started BHX to Agadir.

Air Algerie I could see starting Oran to LGW at some point in the future.

I'll do a list of all the proposed connections from the airlines that have recently shown interest in either starting or resuming flights to London and I'll use LGW as the London airport as I can't honestly see any of them serving LHR as none of the airlines are that financially well off to buy expensive slots.

Air Namibia...Luanda
Air Peace...Enugu, Lagos, Port Harcourt
Air Tanzania...Dar Es Salaam
Air Zimbabwe...Harare
ASKY Airlines...Lome
Ghana Airways...Accra
Nigerian Air...Lagos
Rwandair...Kigali (already operating)
Sudan Airways...Khartoum
Zambia Airways...Lusaka

The next few years will be interesting to see how many of the above airlines and routes actually come to fruition.

(For those particular individuals doubting the fact that Air Namibia served LHR prior to LGW I can vouch that they very much did so and as others have mentioned it was from LHR T1.

There was actually a gap of about three years from when Air Namibia
stopped serving LHR in 2003 to them resuming flights to London and starting Windhoek to LGW via Frankfurt in 2006 with the flight ceasing in 2009.
Last edited by Cunard on Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Cunard
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:45 am

3BNBE wrote:
Maybe Virgin Atlantic could restart flights between LHR and MRU, or maybe have MAN-LHR-MRU flights, since Britain is a great market for Mauritius' tourism, with more than 300,000 passengers flying yearly between the 2 countries, with Emirates having a great share though. Air Mauritius operates 3-4 weekly flights to Heathrow(soon with an A330-900) and British Airways has 3 flights from April to October and 5 flights during Northern Winter from Gatwick with its B777-200ER. TUI also operates a weekly flight(B787) from Gatwick all year long while Thomas Cook operates bi-weekly cruise charters to Mauritius from Manchester and LGW


Those bi-weekly charter flights from MAN and LGW to Mauritius are in no way cruise connected I can assure you of that!

Take my word for it honestly!

(I work in the cruise industry and there are absolutely no turnaround cruise ship calls from Mauritius for the British market)

You won't see Virgin Atlantic reinstating flights to Mauritius let alone from Manchester regardless of the amount of tourism from the United Kingdom to the island.

The fully integrated tour companies such as Thomas Cook and TUI are in a better position to cater to that market.

Virgin Atlantic future focus will be their core market which is the Transatlantic routes and in particular to the USA now that is virtually run by Delta they won't be reopening routes to the likes of Mauritius I can assure you.
 
mapletux
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:49 am

Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:57 am

Cunard wrote:

The OP also missed

Nigerian Air...Lagos
Zambia Airways...Lusaka



I think the OP was correct to leave out Nigeria Air as their launch has been suspended.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1404257&p=20726719&hilit=%22nigeria+air%22#p20726719
 
User avatar
3BNBE
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:07 pm

Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:07 am

Cunard wrote:
3BNBE wrote:
Maybe Virgin Atlantic could restart flights between LHR and MRU, or maybe have MAN-LHR-MRU flights, since Britain is a great market for Mauritius' tourism, with more than 300,000 passengers flying yearly between the 2 countries, with Emirates having a great share though. Air Mauritius operates 3-4 weekly flights to Heathrow(soon with an A330-900) and British Airways has 3 flights from April to October and 5 flights during Northern Winter from Gatwick with its B777-200ER. TUI also operates a weekly flight(B787) from Gatwick all year long while Thomas Cook operates bi-weekly cruise charters to Mauritius from Manchester and LGW


Those bi-weekly charter flights from MAN and LGW to Mauritius are in no way cruise connected I can assure you of that!

Take my word for it honestly!

(I work in the cruise industry and there are absolutely no turnaround cruise ship calls from Mauritius for the British market)

You won't see Virgin Atlantic reinstating flights to Mauritius let alone from Manchester regardless of the amount of tourism from the United Kingdom to the island.

The fully integrated tour companies such as Thomas Cook and TUI are in a better position to cater to that market.

Virgin Atlantic future focus will be their core market which is the Transatlantic routes and in particular to the USA now that is virtually run by Delta they won't be reopening routes to the likes of Mauritius I can assure you.


Maybe you're right on the point that VS won't start Mauritius, but not so right on saying that Thomas Cook flights are not related to cruises. ;)

https://www.anna.aero/2017/11/20/thomas ... mauritius/

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/new ... route.html

For me, those sources are reliable enough to say that Thomas Cook has flights bi-weekly on Wednesdays to take Britons for cruises in the Indian Ocean by Fred Olsen which depart Port Louis on Thursday, while those finishing their cruises either have a short break in Mauritius or take the return flight to MAN or LGW. When MT started its flights last year, even the Mauritian media stated that those flights are related to Fred Olsen starting cruises in between Mauritius, Seychelles and other islands.
 
Cunard
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:35 pm

3BNBE wrote:
Cunard wrote:
3BNBE wrote:
Maybe Virgin Atlantic could restart flights between LHR and MRU, or maybe have MAN-LHR-MRU flights, since Britain is a great market for Mauritius' tourism, with more than 300,000 passengers flying yearly between the 2 countries, with Emirates having a great share though. Air Mauritius operates 3-4 weekly flights to Heathrow(soon with an A330-900) and British Airways has 3 flights from April to October and 5 flights during Northern Winter from Gatwick with its B777-200ER. TUI also operates a weekly flight(B787) from Gatwick all year long while Thomas Cook operates bi-weekly cruise charters to Mauritius from Manchester and LGW


Those bi-weekly charter flights from MAN and LGW to Mauritius are in no way cruise connected I can assure you of that!

Take my word for it honestly!

(I work in the cruise industry and there are absolutely no turnaround cruise ship calls from Mauritius for the British market)

You won't see Virgin Atlantic reinstating flights to Mauritius let alone from Manchester regardless of the amount of tourism from the United Kingdom to the island.

The fully integrated tour companies such as Thomas Cook and TUI are in a better position to cater to that market.

Virgin Atlantic future focus will be their core market which is the Transatlantic routes and in particular to the USA now that is virtually run by Delta they won't be reopening routes to the likes of Mauritius I can assure you.


Maybe you're right on the point that VS won't start Mauritius, but not so right on saying that Thomas Cook flights are not related to cruises. ;)

https://www.anna.aero/2017/11/20/thomas ... mauritius/

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/new ... route.html

For me, those sources are reliable enough to say that Thomas Cook has flights bi-weekly on Wednesdays to take Britons for cruises in the Indian Ocean by Fred Olsen which depart Port Louis on Thursday, while those finishing their cruises either have a short break in Mauritius or take the return flight to MAN or LGW. When MT started its flights last year, even the Mauritian media stated that those flights are related to Fred Olsen starting cruises in between Mauritius, Seychelles and other islands.


I will put my hands up and admit that I had totally forgotten about Fred Olsen offering Indian Ocean fly cruises in 2019 so I will admit that your correct on that one as I had overlooked them.

I don't have an issue with being corrected so take it as an oversight on my behalf!

If you read my username your probably be aware of the fact that I had overlooked Fred Olsen Cruises. :-)
 
Cunard
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Future London to Africa routes...

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:40 pm

mapletux wrote:
Cunard wrote:

The OP also missed

Nigerian Air...Lagos
Zambia Airways...Lusaka



I think the OP was correct to leave out Nigeria Air as their launch has been suspended.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1404257&p=20726719&hilit=%22nigeria+air%22#p20726719


I'm aware that the Nigeria Air project has been suspended for the time being anyway but as it's just a suspension and not a cancellation of the project I therefore added it to the list and knowing how Nigeria works it wouldn't be too surprising if the project was announced yet again.

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