Potential A220 Routes for Delta

evank516 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:17 pm

I didn't see a thread about this yet, just deliveries and so on, so I thought I'd create a thread for us to speculate which routes in the Delta system would be good candidates for upgauges to the A220 as more deliveries come in. We know so far that these aircraft will initially be based in NYC and SLC and they will be present on LGA-BOS/DFW/IAH, JFK-IAH and SLC-DFW. A few other routes that pop out at me are LGA-BNA/MCI/MKE/STL which all see large RJs multiple times per day. I'm wondering if these would also work well on thin Florida routes like LGA/JFK-JAX/SRQ/DAB/PBI/MLB/PNS/RSW if they prove to be as efficient as Bombardier and Airbus claim?

717atOGG · Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:29 pm

I think that the majority of, if not all West Coast 717 routes (SFO-LAX, SEA-PDX, SEA-SFO, etc) are good A220 candidates so that the 717 fleet can be centralized in the East Coast.

Flyingstump · Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:31 pm

Since they plan on using the A220 to replace the 717, I would assume to see A220s in TPA and other Florida markets from JFK. Currently, DL 717s fly between TPA and JFK on a daily basis.

evank516 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:45 pm

Flyingstump wrote:
Since they plan on using the A220 to replace the 717, I would assume to see A220s in TPA and other Florida markets from JFK. Currently, DL 717s fly between TPA and JFK on a daily basis.

I agree. At least on the thinner Florida routes. Maybe some new Florida routes will come from this aircraft as well depending on how efficient it proves to be. 717s will probably move out of NYC and focus more on ATL.

ERJ170 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:47 pm

Any RDU route with a CR7-717 would be a good route.

ibthebigd · Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:47 pm

I would love to see IND-SAN and IND-PDX.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

KICT · Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:49 pm

SLC-ORF/RIC

slcdeltarumd11 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:57 pm

I would think after the new terminals are in place SLC-BDL, MEM, BUF are all possible/likely routes.

fanoftristars · Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:24 pm

I think a lot are already loaded in the schedule. I think it’s starts with BOS-LGA, LGA-DFW, JFK-DFW, SLC-DFW, DTW-DFW, etc.

jfklganyc · Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:25 pm

JFK/LGA-DAB please!

Damn bluejet

flymco753 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:33 pm

I'd like to see some MCO growth with the A220 out west to AUS and LAS in particular. Other than that, I think MCO growth will be limited to the 717 and larger sized RJs.

SyracuseAvGeek · Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:36 pm

SLC-BUF or SYR

evank516 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:03 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
I think a lot are already loaded in the schedule. I think it’s starts with BOS-LGA, LGA-DFW, JFK-DFW, SLC-DFW, DTW-DFW, etc.

Yep, this is where it starts, but we all know there is more to come. JFK-DTW might work as well with this.

jfklganyc wrote:
JFK/LGA-DAB please!

Damn bluejet

I'm going to be perfectly honest. Load wise, there are enough passengers to support the A220 on the route. Average loads are in the mid 80s with B6, I believe about 83%. So 83% of their 150 passenger Airbus A320 was roughly 124.5 pax. If they want to do a single daily flight, the A220 will more than cover it. Add on a second flight in the peak season and you'll probably still get decent loads out of it. As long as the CASM is low enough, it would probably work given DL's FF Base in the DAB area (and NYC Area) and DL's willingness to charge the premium, especially with B6 pulling out of the market. The product offered between B6 and DL (on an A220) will be roughly the same except a premium cabin will be available. Time will tell, but I don't really think this could be ruled out.

777Mech · Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:12 pm

It's going to be routes from east/west coast hubs to middle America. Just look at the routes already announced. Those routes to Texas and the midwest is a shot across the bow to AA and eventually UA.

delta747tlv · Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:14 pm

No speculation necessary, 777Mech and fanoftristars got it right

https://thepointsguy.com/news/first-delta-a220-routes/

DiamondFlyer · Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:14 pm

Probably going to see them on anything over 1000 miles that's currently a CR9/E175/717, allowing the aforementioned planes to move down to shorter routes and/or new routes from focus cities.

evank516 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:16 pm

delta747tlv wrote:
No speculation necessary, 777Mech and fanoftristars got it right

https://thepointsguy.com/news/first-delta-a220-routes/

We've all seen this. But this is just the start and we all know there will be more to come.

777Mech wrote:
It's going to be routes from east/west coast hubs to middle America. Just look at the routes already announced. Those routes to Texas and the midwest is a shot across the bow to AA and eventually UA.

Which is why I was thinking we'll see them on LGA-MCI/STL pretty soon. Shot in the dark, but maybe LGA-DSM/OMA?

Midwestindy · Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:51 pm

Flyingstump wrote:
Since they plan on using the A220 to replace the 717, I would assume to see A220s in TPA and other Florida markets from JFK. Currently, DL 717s fly between TPA and JFK on a daily basis.

For the 10,000th time, the A220s are not replacing 717 routes, they are to upguage CR9/E175 routes. The B717s have the same capacity as the A220s

Sorry for the snark, but it has been repeated hundreds of times
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -c-451284/

"Where we're purposely putting [the A220s] is to improve our product on our longest haul [Embraer] 175 or [Bombardier] CRJ900s, into thinner business markets," says Joe Esposito"

delta747tlv wrote:
No speculation necessary, 777Mech and fanoftristars got it right

https://thepointsguy.com/news/first-delta-a220-routes/

Delta stated multiple times in the past 1-2 years that the first routes would be to DFW/IAH, there was no insider knowledge needed

If what Joe Esposito said is true, the next routes will likely be longer competitive business routes where DL uses RJs to compete with mainline. For example, NYC/BOS-RDU

evank516 wrote:
Shot in the dark, but maybe LGA-DSM/OMA?

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
SLC-BUF or SYR

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I would think after the new terminals are in place SLC-BDL, MEM, BUF are all possible/likely routes.

KICT wrote:
SLC-ORF/RIC

All those routes sound marginal at best, DL(at least initially) will not use the aircraft to start marginal routes. Currently, the A220 is too much of an asset to waste on something like SLC-ORF/RIC, maybe in 2-3 years when they have more in the fleet

evank516 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:54 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Flyingstump wrote:
Since they plan on using the A220 to replace the 717, I would assume to see A220s in TPA and other Florida markets from JFK. Currently, DL 717s fly between TPA and JFK on a daily basis.

For the 10,000th time, the A220s are not replacing 717 routes, they are to upguage CR9/E175 routes. The B717s have the same capacity as the A220s

Sorry for the snark, but it has been repeated hundreds of times
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -c-451284/

"Where we're purposely putting [the A220s] is to improve our product on our longest haul [Embraer] 175 or [Bombardier] CRJ900s, into thinner business markets," says Joe Esposito"

delta747tlv wrote:
No speculation necessary, 777Mech and fanoftristars got it right

https://thepointsguy.com/news/first-delta-a220-routes/

Delta stated multiple times in the past 1-2 years that the first routes would be to DFW/IAH, there was no insider knowledge needed

If what Joe Esposito said is true, the next routes will likely be longer competitive business routes where DL uses RJs to compete with mainline. For example, NYC/BOS-RDU

evank516 wrote:
Shot in the dark, but maybe LGA-DSM/OMA?

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
SLC-BUF or SYR

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I would think after the new terminals are in place SLC-BDL, MEM, BUF are all possible/likely routes.

KICT wrote:
SLC-ORF/RIC

All those routes sound marginal at best, DL(at least initially) will not use the aircraft to start marginal routes. Currently, the A220 is too much of an asset to waste on something like SLC-ORF/RIC, maybe in 2-3 years when they have more in the fleet

LGA-DSM/OMA was a real shot in the dark. However I'm pretty confident about LGA-MCI/STL.

klm617 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:00 pm

evank516 wrote:
I didn't see a thread about this yet, just deliveries and so on, so I thought I'd create a thread for us to speculate which routes in the Delta system would be good candidates for upgauges to the A220 as more deliveries come in. We know so far that these aircraft will initially be based in NYC and SLC and they will be present on LGA-BOS/DFW/IAH, JFK-IAH and SLC-DFW. A few other routes that pop out at me are LGA-BNA/MCI/MKE/STL which all see large RJs multiple times per day. I'm wondering if these would also work well on thin Florida routes like LGA/JFK-JAX/SRQ/DAB/PBI/MLB/PNS/RSW if they prove to be as efficient as Bombardier and Airbus claim?

You forgot DTW to both DFW and IAH. Potential routes could be SLC GRR/MSN and SEA GRR I can also see them doing DTW to YYC/YUL/YYZ. I think this is hardly the plane for NYC to Florida as it is marketed towards the business traveler and those are not business orientated routes so I wouldn't expect the A220 to do to much Florida flying.

BravoEchoNov · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:06 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
[For the 10,000th time, the A220s are not replacing 717 routes, they are to upguage CR9/E175 routes. The B717s have the same capacity as the A220s

Sorry for the snark, but it has been repeated hundreds of times
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -c-451284/

That is actually not fully correct. The A220 will be replacing the 717 on some routes not yet announced. No need to claim "For the 10,000th time" when your statement is not fully true. Yes, the A220 will mostly be used to upgrade CR9 and E175 routes but definitely not all A220s will be purposed for that.

Brandon757 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:21 pm

There have been talks for a couple years about Delta possibly starting DFW-SEA. Could this be a good contender?

kavok · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:36 pm

Just look at the longer routes being flown from SLC and JFK on regionals today, and that will give you a good starting point. You can further refine it by taking those longer regional routes and narrowing it down to which routes are to major airports or competing hubs.

Ones that jump out from SLC are: DFW, IAH, BNA, ORD, SAT, and also maybe SLC to SFO, SEA to train and get reps (like BOS-LGA)

From JFK/LGA: DFW, IAH, JAX, MSY, OMA, MCI

Midwestindy · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:40 pm

BravoEchoNov wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
[For the 10,000th time, the A220s are not replacing 717 routes, they are to upguage CR9/E175 routes. The B717s have the same capacity as the A220s

Sorry for the snark, but it has been repeated hundreds of times
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -c-451284/

That is actually not fully correct. The A220 will be replacing the 717 on some routes not yet announced. No need to claim "For the 10,000th time" when your statement is not fully true. Yes, the A220 will mostly be used to upgrade CR9 and E175 routes but definitely not all A220s will be purposed for that.

Why did you edit out the part of my post where Joe Esposito literally agreed with what I said?

He stated in twice in that article, I'll post it again so we are on the same page:
"Where we're purposely putting [the A220s] is to improve our product on our longest haul [Embraer] 175 or [Bombardier] CRJ900s, into thinner business markets,"
"In the short-term, we're probably going to use it to upgrade some of our longer haul Delta Connection flights,"

I'm sure the A220 will replace the B717 on some routes, but that is the exception and not the rule. Just like how the M88s will not exclusively be replaced by the A321/B739, but that doesn't change the fact that the B739/A321 were bought in large part to replace the MD88s

777Mech · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:41 pm

klm617 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
I didn't see a thread about this yet, just deliveries and so on, so I thought I'd create a thread for us to speculate which routes in the Delta system would be good candidates for upgauges to the A220 as more deliveries come in. We know so far that these aircraft will initially be based in NYC and SLC and they will be present on LGA-BOS/DFW/IAH, JFK-IAH and SLC-DFW. A few other routes that pop out at me are LGA-BNA/MCI/MKE/STL which all see large RJs multiple times per day. I'm wondering if these would also work well on thin Florida routes like LGA/JFK-JAX/SRQ/DAB/PBI/MLB/PNS/RSW if they prove to be as efficient as Bombardier and Airbus claim?

You forgot DTW to both DFW and IAH. Potential routes could be SLC GRR/MSN and SEA GRR I can also see them doing DTW to YYC/YUL/YYZ. I think this is hardly the plane for NYC to Florida as it is marketed towards the business traveler and those are not business orientated routes so I wouldn't expect the A220 to do to much Florida flying.

SEA-GRR? Seriously? I'll throw in SEA-BMI too.

FSDan · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:54 pm

If I worked in DL route/schedule planning (wishful thinking), these are some routes I'd want to study for the A220. Note that I'm not saying these routes should go all-A220, but it wouldn't surprise me to see at least one or two flights a day on the type.

Existing routes (excluding already-announced A220 routes) that could be a good fit for the A220 in the next few years:
SEA-PDX
SEA-SFO
SEA-SJC
SEA-SNA
SEA-SAN
SEA-LAS
SEA-PHX
SEA-DEN
SEA-MCI
LAX-PDX
LAX-SFO
LAX-SJC
LAX-LAS
LAX-PHX
LAX-DEN
LAX-SAT
LAX-DFW
LAX-MCI
SLC-SJC
SLC-SNA
SLC-PHX
SLC-DEN
SLC-SAT
SLC-MCI
SLC-STL
SLC-ORD
MSP-RNO (increase to daily, year round)
MSP-ABQ (year round/frequency increase)
MSP-SAT
MSP-JAX
DTW-SAT
DTW-MSY
DTW-SRQ (year round)
DTW-JAX
CVG-DEN
CVG-TPA
CVG-LGA
CVG-BOS
RDU-AUS
RDU-LGA
RDU-BOS
LGA-MCI
LGA-STL
LGA-MSY
LGA-ORD
LGA-SRQ
LGA-TPA
LGA-JAX
JFK-MSY
JFK-TPA

A few potential new routes for the A220:
SEA-DFW
SLC-MEM
DTW-ELP
LGA-DAB
JFK-IAH
BOS-DFW

evank516 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:57 pm

klm617 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
I didn't see a thread about this yet, just deliveries and so on, so I thought I'd create a thread for us to speculate which routes in the Delta system would be good candidates for upgauges to the A220 as more deliveries come in. We know so far that these aircraft will initially be based in NYC and SLC and they will be present on LGA-BOS/DFW/IAH, JFK-IAH and SLC-DFW. A few other routes that pop out at me are LGA-BNA/MCI/MKE/STL which all see large RJs multiple times per day. I'm wondering if these would also work well on thin Florida routes like LGA/JFK-JAX/SRQ/DAB/PBI/MLB/PNS/RSW if they prove to be as efficient as Bombardier and Airbus claim?

You forgot DTW to both DFW and IAH. Potential routes could be SLC GRR/MSN and SEA GRR I can also see them doing DTW to YYC/YUL/YYZ. I think this is hardly the plane for NYC to Florida as it is marketed towards the business traveler and those are not business orientated routes so I wouldn't expect the A220 to do to much Florida flying.

I didn't forget. A link was posted earlier about the DTW flights. The fact is these aircraft will be primarily based in NYC and SLC to start so I'm not going to speculate on DTW flights as of now with the exception of maybe JFK-DTW.

FSDan · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:59 pm

And I might throw AUS-SJC out as a potential new route to look at for the A220 as well. DL's doing a pretty good job of connecting cities with major tech economies (SEA, SJC, AUS, RDU, BOS, etc.), and this could fit into that strategy.

INFINITI329 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:03 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I'd like to see some MCO growth with the A220 out west to AUS and LAS in particular. Other than that, I think MCO growth will be limited to the 717 and larger sized RJs.

I think Southwest should be very afraid of this airplane in the hands of their competitors.

FlightLevel360 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:09 pm

NYC-Pittsburgh can have a few flights a day upgauged to the CS100. United uses 737s (-700 and -800) on this route daily, in addition to 4 or 5 additional ERJ-175s, and makes it work perfectly.

WeatherPilot · Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:26 pm

I know we're talking about the A220 here but what is replacing the MD88/90?

evank516 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:34 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
I know we're talking about the A220 here but what is replacing the MD88/90?

739 and A321.

stlgph · Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:03 pm

Since we're doing a thread where everyone just tries to name a route someone else hasn't named, I may as well just say my prayers for Spokane-Salt Lake City, Corpus Christi-Cincinnati, Lexington-Seattle, Wichita-New York Kennedy.

There we go! Wheeee!

evank516 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:18 pm

stlgph wrote:
Since we're doing a thread where everyone just tries to name a route someone else hasn't named, I may as well just say my prayers for Spokane-Salt Lake City, Corpus Christi-Cincinnati, Lexington-Seattle, Wichita-New York Kennedy.

There we go! Wheeee!

I was actually trying to give speculation based on what we know so far about the A220 ops with Delta.

flymco753 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:05 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I'd like to see some MCO growth with the A220 out west to AUS and LAS in particular. Other than that, I think MCO growth will be limited to the 717 and larger sized RJs.

I think Southwest should be very afraid of this airplane in the hands of their competitors.

Especially since most of the stations they could grow in have a large presence by WN. This could unlock SAN-RDU and other points east, MCO-LAS and other points north and west, AUS-basically anywhere WN can fly to both east and west.

KICT · Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:16 pm

I think this aircraft will bring back routes like LAX-JAX, MCO-MEX, and MCO-LAS, which struggled in the past with the 737-800.
Regarding SLC-ORF or SLC-RIC, United flies DEN-ORF on mainline just fine. This type of route seems right up the A220's alley.
MCO-RDU also seems like a logical one.

bonusonus · Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:44 am

JFK-IND is a CRJ900 - this equipment could use a serious upgrade.

MavyWavyATR · Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:04 am

Here's a good one that could work for them with the A220 (still have a hard time getting used to it): ATL-EYW.
It could complement the current 73G flights while replacing the CRJ-700 flights on the route. Also, I believe it can perform better than the 73G when going out from EYW since it could do a full load from the short runway.

evank516 · Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:13 pm

bonusonus wrote:
JFK-IND is a CRJ900 - this equipment could use a serious upgrade.

Both LGA and JFK probably need to be upgauged.

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Here's a good one that could work for them with the A220 (still have a hard time getting used to it): ATL-EYW.
It could complement the current 73G flights while replacing the CRJ-700 flights on the route. Also, I believe it can perform better than the 73G when going out from EYW since it could do a full load from the short runway.

It probably could, however these aircraft will be based primarily in NYC and SLC to start and they will initially be used to upgauge longer thin routes that are flown on large RJs (CR7, CR9, E170/175).

I apologize for not being clear everyone, I was hoping everyone would speculate based on Delta's initial plans for the aircraft, not what they might fly in 5+ years.

Midwestindy · Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:54 pm

https://news.get.com/delta-offers-sneak ... unch-date/

"Only travelers on the East Coast will be able to experience the new A220 planes for now. Delta doesn't have any plans to bring the new aircraft to the West Coast. "

Interesting.....

evank516 · Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:46 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://news.get.com/delta-offers-sneak-peek-new-a220-aircraft-ahead-january-launch-date/

"Only travelers on the East Coast will be able to experience the new A220 planes for now. Delta doesn't have any plans to bring the new aircraft to the West Coast. "

Interesting.....

These will probably be focused on the Northeast for a while then. Heavy usage at LGA, JFK, and BOS seems to be the initial expectation hence my guesses of LGA-MCI/STL/MKE. Maybe LGA-IND as well. I expect LGA-ORD will eventually be a mix of A220s and 717s as opposed to 717s and E175s.

MSPNWA · Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:16 am

evank516 wrote:
739 and A321.

And A220. The A220 has to play its part in replacing the MDs, oldest A320s/757s, and eventually 717s, along with allowing for growth. The 739/A321/A321NEO orders aren't enough on their own.

migs · Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:12 am

Flying out of SFO this evening I noticed that the gate tarmac markings at Terminal 1 (Delta) had just added A220-100/CS100 to the line up. This may be a nationwide move but might also be a suggestion for routes to come.

LH658 · Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:06 am

LAX - IAH, JFK - IAH, RDU - IAH, SEA - IAH, BOS - IAH, and any existing current route to IAH, just fleet swapping.

evank516 · Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:07 pm

LH658 wrote:
LAX - IAH, JFK - IAH, RDU - IAH, SEA - IAH, BOS - IAH, and any existing current route to IAH, just fleet swapping.

Let's try to keep the speculation based on what we know so far. Aircraft will initially be based on the east coast, primarily NYC.

LH658 · Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:56 pm

evank516 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
LAX - IAH, JFK - IAH, RDU - IAH, SEA - IAH, BOS - IAH, and any existing current route to IAH, just fleet swapping.

Let's try to keep the speculation based on what we know so far. Aircraft will initially be based on the east coast, primarily NYC.

It was at IAH last night.

evank516 · Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:56 pm

LH658 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
LAX - IAH, JFK - IAH, RDU - IAH, SEA - IAH, BOS - IAH, and any existing current route to IAH, just fleet swapping.

Let's try to keep the speculation based on what we know so far. Aircraft will initially be based on the east coast, primarily NYC.

It was at IAH last night.

It was also in DAB last week, doesn't mean they're adding DAB-LAX, JFK, LGA, RDU, and BOS.

evank516 · Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:49 pm

So it seems that by starting the A220 on JFK-DFW next August, they mean August 31st.

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