boeingfan08
Topic Author
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:53 am

Why do airlines put their better first seats in 777s over A380s these days?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:48 am

Just out curiosity, does anyone think there's a reason why airlines have placed their more updated first class seats in their 777s opposed to their A380s?

For example:

Emirates put their new fully-enclosed suites in the 777 this year and held off on the A380 upgrades until mid 2020s.
Korean Air has their new suites in all their 777-300ERs but not the A380.
Air France has a newer and arguably upgraded version of their La Prémiere seats in the 777.

I guess the only exception would be Singapore Airlines, but I'm seeing this become an increasingly more popular trend, any thoughts why? Just wanted to hear your facts/opinions!
 
EChid
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Why do airlines put their better first seats in 777s over A380s these days?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:23 am

I think each case here is unique. Korean's 777s are either necessary refurbishments or new deliveries whereas their A380s are not old enough to need refurbishments nor new enough to have the latest changes (which are doors, afaik, and likely a response to Asiana's decision to have doors on their A380s).

EK probably decided that one of its two fleet types was due for changes and, since the 777 can trial these in a smaller footprint, went with it. A lot of their pre-existing marketing relies on the current F class in the A380 and its somewhat social atmosphere (bar, F seats next to each other, etc.) so maybe they didn't want to mess with that for the time being or felt that there was enough to keep that product unique compared to their competitors.

AF has always struggled with its A380s, and seems racked with indecision about them. Some of the 77Ws are newer, thus the more competitive design, but the answer is once again that the A380s' configuration was probably decided and contracted far in advance and they are just old enough to have the old product but not new enough to get the latest. Given their questions about how to use the A380, they may have lots of questions about how to roll out changes...which is probably the reason for the delay.

Of course, the other fact is that A380s are a relatively small subfleet for most airlines, so less of a concern perhaps in terms of product, but also very expensive to overhaul due to their size. It's not something you want to do just for the sake of having an updated F class.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
boeingfan08
Topic Author
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:53 am

Re: Why do airlines put their better first seats in 777s over A380s these days?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:16 am

EChid wrote:
I think each case here is unique. Korean's 777s are either necessary refurbishments or new deliveries whereas their A380s are not old enough to need refurbishments nor new enough to have the latest changes (which are doors, afaik, and likely a response to Asiana's decision to have doors on their A380s).

EK probably decided that one of its two fleet types was due for changes and, since the 777 can trial these in a smaller footprint, went with it. A lot of their pre-existing marketing relies on the current F class in the A380 and its somewhat social atmosphere (bar, F seats next to each other, etc.) so maybe they didn't want to mess with that for the time being or felt that there was enough to keep that product unique compared to their competitors.

AF has always struggled with its A380s, and seems racked with indecision about them. Some of the 77Ws are newer, thus the more competitive design, but the answer is once again that the A380s' configuration was probably decided and contracted far in advance and they are just old enough to have the old product but not new enough to get the latest. Given their questions about how to use the A380, they may have lots of questions about how to roll out changes...which is probably the reason for the delay.

Of course, the other fact is that A380s are a relatively small subfleet for most airlines, so less of a concern perhaps in terms of product, but also very expensive to overhaul due to their size. It's not something you want to do just for the sake of having an updated F class.


Wow, thanks so much for the thoughtful reply!
 
gsg013
Posts: 346
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Re: Why do airlines put their better first seats in 777s over A380s these days?

Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:13 pm

Was thinking about this as well. I am flying 777-300ER on AF JFK-CDG and A380-800 home it is sad that the A380 has such inferior products for both business and First Class to the 777-300ER.

I often find it interesting that when booking on AF the A380 F seats can be as low as $3000 each way while the 777-300ER F seat is usually closer to $10,000 each way. I assume it is reveneue management basing price on the number of seats left in the cabin. To think about it they have to sell 5 seats on the A380 to get to 4 remaining while the 777-300ER only has 4 seats to begin with.

I am hoping by the time I fly to Italy in May on AF connecting in CDG that the A380 will have new J and or F seats to be on par with the 777-300ER.
 
LH658
Posts: 586
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Why do airlines put their better first seats in 777s over A380s these days?

Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:01 am

The A380 is still fairly a new plane, EK has a bar, shower, lounge, first class seats, wifi, 1 -2-1 business class, and updated Economy section. If your booked, on a A380 flight, it quite a Honor I can say. Few airlines have it.

For Emirates, Etihad, Qantas, SQ, and Qatar there A380 is ahead of the game for the next few years or more, especially EK. These carriers either have suites, showers, bars, lounge, decent economy class, 1-2-1 business class. Korean has a on board Duty free, but that's nothing to really brag about.

Though some airlines like AF, BA, LH, CZ, MH, TG, and etc can use a update on their A380.
 
EChid
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Why do airlines put their better first seats in 777s over A380s these days?

Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:51 pm

gsg013 wrote:
I am hoping by the time I fly to Italy in May on AF connecting in CDG that the A380 will have new J and or F seats to be on par with the 777-300ER.


They will not. The refit process costs something like $40 million per plane, and the latest rumour is that AF may retire their A380s earlier and simply not bother with the refit, given their financial situation and the challenges they've faced utilizing their A380s.

That said, the last official word from AF was that they would start the refit process in late 2019, but that was decided under previous leadership.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
gsg013
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Why do airlines put their better first seats in 777s over A380s these days?

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:21 pm

EChid wrote:
gsg013 wrote:
I am hoping by the time I fly to Italy in May on AF connecting in CDG that the A380 will have new J and or F seats to be on par with the 777-300ER.


They will not. The refit process costs something like $40 million per plane, and the latest rumour is that AF may retire their A380s earlier and simply not bother with the refit, given their financial situation and the challenges they've faced utilizing their A380s.

That said, the last official word from AF was that they would start the refit process in late 2019, but that was decided under previous leadership.



Okay agree they probably have trouble filling 516 seats on the A380 even to JFK and LAX... Does anyone know the average load AF carries by class on the CDG-JFK-CDG route with the A380 ?
 
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flyingclrs727
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Why do airlines put their better first seats in 777s over A380s these days?

Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:17 pm

The airlines' best customers are business travelers who value getting to their destinations as quickly and directly as possible. They would rather go nonstop to their destinations on a 777 than have to take multiple flights to take an A380.
 
EChid
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Why do airlines put their better first seats in 777s over A380s these days?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:52 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The airlines' best customers are business travelers who value getting to their destinations as quickly and directly as possible. They would rather go nonstop to their destinations on a 777 than have to take multiple flights to take an A380.


Well, perhaps, but that's irrelevant to the conversation. Typically, it's not an A380 vs. 777 conversation with the *same* carrier, which is what is being discussed. It's not like Air France sends it's A380s on a wild goose-chase around the globe to get to LAX while sending the 777 directly.

So, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make within the topic of the thread, but the more comparable argument would be "because the best customers are business travellers and they prefer frequency over plane type" which is a general argument made against the A380 as a concept and for planes like the 787.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J

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