Good morning. I have just boarded my LH-flight to Cairo and what can I say... I am shocked. This is supposed to be business class?!?!? The usual seats with the middle seat being blocked. But the worst thing is that there are no power sockets. I was planning to work all the way to Cairo but the battery of my laptop is low...
I had heard that LH had installed some proper business class seats in the planes they are using to MENA, in particular TLV, and was hoping for such an aircraft... so they don’t use these planes on the CAI-route?
Should have chosen THY, they have proper business class seats even on the shorter flights to IST...
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
This is standard practice for most European carriers on short- and some mid-haul flights - it's generally accepted that when you're not spending all that much time in the air, Business Class is more about the benefits on the ground.
I would say as a personal opinion that some carriers have maybe dialled the in-flight benefits back a touch too far, and certainly lack of at-seat power is a major disappointment for J service anywhere nowadays, but your overall experience would have been similar on a lot of other airlines.
I would say as a personal opinion that some carriers have maybe dialled the in-flight benefits back a touch too far, and certainly lack of at-seat power is a major disappointment for J service anywhere nowadays, but your overall experience would have been similar on a lot of other airlines.
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- B747forever
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Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
XAM2175 wrote:This is standard practice for most European carriers on short- and some mid-haul flights - it's generally accepted that when you're not spending all that much time in the air, Business Class is more about the benefits on the ground.
This right here is what I think the EU carriers have got wrong compared to the US carriers.
1. Most people flying in J/F are doing so due to work. Thus I doubt you can spend too much time in lounges, and if you are a frequent flyer I am sure you try to spend as little time as possible at the airport before the flight. I know I am, and after visiting the same lounge every other week you become tired of the same offerings.
2. Whatever is offered in lounges is usually of poor quality. I would rather pay $20 and eat whatever I like.
3. The aforementioned points are something you can control by for instance purchasing a meal instead of going to a lounge. But you can't control the type of seat offered by the airline. So in Europe you will be stuck in a Y seat when you paid for J, even if you did not enjoy all the other optional benefits that comes with the ticket.
In short, I would rather have the airline offer a great hard product, something you are forced to use instead of giving benefits on the ground that might not suit everyone and that in the end are optional.
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
B747forever wrote:This right here is what I think the EU carriers have got wrong compared to the US carriers.
There are a lots of points where US carriers have pulled ahead. For instance, why do barely any airlines in Europe have IFE systems built into the seats? In the US, these are becoming really common on short-haul planes, even in economy and some low-cost airlines. In Europe, you don't even get entertainment in business class.
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- B747forever
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Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
VSMUT wrote:B747forever wrote:This right here is what I think the EU carriers have got wrong compared to the US carriers.
There are a lots of points where US carriers have pulled ahead. For instance, why do barely any airlines in Europe have IFE systems built into the seats? In the US, these are becoming really common on short-haul planes, even in economy and some low-cost airlines. In Europe, you don't even get entertainment in business class.
Soon you will have someone say that the reason is that US domestic flights are longer compared to intra EU flights. While we have some longer routes at 4-5 hours, the majority of flights are still under 3 hours long, yet US carriers offer a better hard product.
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
VSMUT wrote:B747forever wrote:This right here is what I think the EU carriers have got wrong compared to the US carriers.
There are a lots of points where US carriers have pulled ahead. For instance, why do barely any airlines in Europe have IFE systems built into the seats? In the US, these are becoming really common on short-haul planes, even in economy and some low-cost airlines. In Europe, you don't even get entertainment in business class.
Many airlines are moving to streaming IFE. Why buy and install 150 PTVs if you can stream the same content to passengers laptops? This is just how business works. I don’t think any new airline will ever introduce built-in IFE on narrowbodies anymore.
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
VSMUT wrote:B747forever wrote:This right here is what I think the EU carriers have got wrong compared to the US carriers.
There are a lots of points where US carriers have pulled ahead. For instance, why do barely any airlines in Europe have IFE systems built into the seats? In the US, these are becoming really common on short-haul planes, even in economy and some low-cost airlines. In Europe, you don't even get entertainment in business class.
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- PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
XAM2175 wrote:This is standard practice for most European carriers on short- and some mid-haul flights - it's generally accepted that when you're not spending all that much time in the air, Business Class is more about the benefits on the ground.
I can definitely vouch for that! In the summer of 2017, my husband and I missed our connecting train at FRA, having just flown in from LAX in business class. Lufthansa very graciously took care of us, and rebooked us immediately on a CR9 to Stuttgart. The lovely but crowded lounge was a wonderful place to wait, and eventually we were taken to our new gate. On board this barely-30 minute flight, business class was simply a window seat with the aisle seat empty. I was in 4A, he was in 4D. A shrimp salad was served along with a glass of wine, but that's all there was time for. Nothing extraordinary, but a delightful waiting experience.
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
I agree that LH and OS so called business is bare bones. No IFE. WIFI is not free in biz and in my last 4 or 5 flights hasnt worked. Seats rock hard and efficient but unsmiling service is not what will make me pay for up front again. Despite decrying BA in this forum, I think their biz product is among the top of the western airlines. THY and ME3 provide excellent onboard facilities and service but these are exceptions and in my view unsustainable in the long run
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
N14AZ wrote:Should have chosen THY, they have proper business class seats even on the shorter flights to IST...
Well discussed here before...
THY is also operating some a/c with a "European" Business Class - only middle seat blocked! Only exception is you fly on one of their widebodies... But same goes for LH-Group, LX is using their heavy metal to e.g. TLV as well. Only other option with a real Business Class and *A would have been EgyptAir!
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
debonair wrote:Well discussed here before..
I know... but I was so disappointed after boarding this LH A320 that I had to share my frustration with my dear a-netters
But seriously, my question has not been answered, correct me if I am wrong: so does LH have some narrowbodies with 2+2 business class seats? I am sure it was planned in particular for flights to TLV but I don’t know if they actually implemented these plans.
debonair wrote:N14AZ wrote:Should have chosen THY, they have proper business class seats even on the shorter flights to IST...
THY is also operating some a/c with a "European" Business Class - only middle seat blocked! Only exception is you fly on one of their widebodies...
Thank you for your feedback but honestly, I don’t think it’s correct. I am sure I already flew their A321s with proper business class seats from Germany to IST. So it’s not only when they send a widebody.
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
N14AZ wrote:But seriously, my question has not been answered, correct me if I am wrong: so does LH have some narrowbodies with 2+2 business class seats?
If the seatmaps on their website are any indication, the only narrowbody they have with "proper" J seats is the Privatair 737-700. Otherwise the closest you'll get is in Rows 1 to 3 of their A321s, where the blocked centre seat is in fact not a seat.
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
N14AZ wrote:Thank you for your feedback but honestly, I don’t think it’s correct. I am sure I already flew their A321s with proper business class seats from Germany to IST. So it’s not only when they send a widebody.
True, but as I said, some a/c do have a European Business Class. There are some A321 (and B738 etc.) in all Economy layout, other have a dedicated BusinessClass. Have a look on seatguru:
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Turki ... _C_new.php
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Turki ... A321_D.php
So in the end, you can't get sure IF you fly BusinessClass on an A321 (THY is known for a/c-changes, even if the seatmap is indicating C-Class). To make sure you will get the real product, you have to travel widebody!
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
I find such business class product ok on the intra-Europe routes, but whenever flights go outside Europe I'd also want a proper C seat. LH now sends their A321s as far as Ashgabat / Baku, Cairo, Tel Aviv, not to mention the A319 to Pune. Must be painful on a red eye flight and wouldn't be my choice.
Regards,
Loran
Regards,
Loran
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
Loran wrote:not to mention the A319 to Pune. Must be painful on a red eye flight and wouldn't be my choice.
Lufthansa seems to have adjusted the comfort of the A319 service to Pune. According to the *new* seatmap, only window seats are now on sale - meaning passengers have the comfort of 2 blocked seats instead of just one (blocked middle seats)! So, if you fold up the arm-rests, you will have a complete row for yourself...
Something else LH needs urgently to improve - the flights are listed as non-stop service:
02:10 - 09:15 , 0 Stops , Duration 11h 35min PNQ - FRA LH769
only if you click on the flight-number, you will get a message:
Stop Baku - Heydar Aliyev Int´l (GYD) 00 h 45 min
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- directorguy
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Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
I completely agree.
Sadly most European airlines-LH, LX, OS , AZ etc fly A320s into CAI with basically no proper J seat.
The trick is to try and book MS operated flights (MS is partner to the LH group). You will get a very solid if outdated proper J experience. Funnily enough, LH actually charges J prices!
I've lost count of the number of times people have complained about getting an inferior J product to or from Cairo. A lot of confusion especially given how LX for example used to operate A340s into CAI with all the bells and whistles then downgraded to A320s.
Sadly most European airlines-LH, LX, OS , AZ etc fly A320s into CAI with basically no proper J seat.
The trick is to try and book MS operated flights (MS is partner to the LH group). You will get a very solid if outdated proper J experience. Funnily enough, LH actually charges J prices!
I've lost count of the number of times people have complained about getting an inferior J product to or from Cairo. A lot of confusion especially given how LX for example used to operate A340s into CAI with all the bells and whistles then downgraded to A320s.
Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
I prefer IFE vs streaming. I hate taking out my own devices etc, using battery etc. Though you can MS maybe there short/mid haul product is better.
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- readytotaxi
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Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
European airlines have been getting away with a sub par product for years and until someone ups the bar they will continue to do so. In the USA the Mint product has caused a stir, we need similar in europe for a 4hr+ journey, who might offer it, certainly not the IAG group.
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- B747forever
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Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
readytotaxi wrote:European airlines have been getting away with a sub par product for years and until someone ups the bar they will continue to do so. In the USA the Mint product has caused a stir, we need similar in europe for a 4hr+ journey, who might offer it, certainly not the IAG group.
To be honest, IAG already offers similar product with CW on their "mid-haul" A321s flying to places such as DME, AMM, BEY whereas AFKL and the LH group only have the standard Euro J product.
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- readytotaxi
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Re: LH‘s business class product to Cairo - a joke
Yes, but it is so thin on the ground, customers will be disappointed having tried it once and expect it to be the norm.
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