adambrau wrote:

flybynight wrote:

But this one is even better:

adambrau wrote:

I would hire the most capable attorneys, who in cases like this only charge a percentage of funds recovered (usually 33%) and go after the airline for lax enforcement of obviously strict laws and boarding her with a used single entry visa. Then the big money comes from emotional distress suffered by both pax. You sue EK in the United Kingdom and this is just the sort of story that will hang about and be repeated on talk boards, blogs, and in the travel community.

Well she got released, so guessing Dubai decided best to bury the story asap.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... n-13065782

Get your prosecutors ready - EK in the UK will settle fast and pay up. The no drinking thing on the plane, even as a non-drinker, is the story that resonates., something like flashy and dumb. Many people flying in Premium Cabins see it as a treat and want to enjoy what they or someone else paid. But 50% of the time you can, and 50% is uncertain how much. A mirage.

adambrau wrote:

moo wrote:

adambrau wrote:

Well she got released, so guessing Dubai decided best to bury the story asap.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... n-13065782

Get your prosecutors ready - EK in the UK will settle fast and pay up. The no drinking thing on the plane, even as a non-drinker, is the story that resonates., something like flashy and dumb. Many people flying in Premium Cabins see it as a treat and want to enjoy what they or someone else paid. But 50% of the time you can, and 50% is uncertain how much. A mirage.

Who is supposed to be prosecuting what here?

If a lawyer went to court on the basis you are suggesting, they would get laughed out on the first day. EK has no liability here.

If you were American you would hire attorneys to prosecute, or settle out of court, or mediate a settlement which would never be disclosed. I know the American Judicial System is not highly regarded or modeled elsewhere, and I don't know where you live or what your desire to litigate in such a case. But it happens every day al over the country. I did Jury Duty for 20 days in April. If the plaintiff can prove that EK at Gatwick should have reasonably known this woman's visa was no good, she should have been denied boarding in London. Because of an Emirate employees failure to catch onto the Visa snafu which resulted in her and her daughter being jailed for three nights and the trauma it caused her, and probably more worthwhile her daughter's who is traumatized and has to live her whole life with god knows what emotional suffering - that's where you go in for the kill. And judging that someone in Dubai realized this was a hot potato they got rid of her. I don't know how innocent the Mother is but gate agents, especially those who are used to dealing with visa heavy routes, should have caught it. Or has it changed in 20 years - when I worked at the gate or ticketing we really checked out the required documents. It's rubbish that the EK Gatwick team don't bother with making sure their pax aren't good to land in Dubai.

adambrau wrote:

If the plaintiff can prove that EK at Gatwick should have reasonably known this woman's visa was no good, she should have been denied boarding in London. Because of an Emirate employees failure to catch onto the Visa snafu which resulted in her and her daughter being jailed for three nights and the trauma it caused her, and probably more worthwhile her daughter's who is traumatized and has to live her whole life with god knows what emotional suffering

The passenger shall be solely responsible for complying with all laws, regulations, orders, demands and travel requirements of countries to be flown from, into or over, and with Carrier's Regulations and instructions. Carrier shall not be liable for any aid or information given by any agent or employee of Carrier to any passenger in connection with obtaining necessary documents or visas or complying with such laws, regulations, orders, demands, and requirements, whether given in writing or otherwise; or for the consequences to any passenger resulting from his failure to obtain such documents or visas or to comply with such laws, regulations, orders, demands, requirements, rules or instructions.

scbriml wrote:

No, and unless you were clearly drunk, there's no reason you would be. She wouldn't have been "a target" if she didn't have a visa issue and then started getting stroppy.

FlyHappy wrote:

You imply that this woman was "so stupid" for getting herself arrested, only because millions of others (yourself included) have not.

I was talking in generalities, I never referenced this woman at all.

scbriml wrote:

Hmm, you think lying to an immigration office is smarter than telling the truth? That's a pretty slippery slope, right there.

FlyHappy wrote:

The question really is - should a society that criminalizes alcohol be in the business of promoting on flights to their own country?
despite your experiences, I think the answer is no, and not having been in the position of falling into a trap like this does not make it a "fair" trap, nor does it prove that those who do are stupid.

Well, millions of people every year enjoy time in Dubai, consume alcohol and manage to not get themselves arrested. Those that do get arrested are nearly always arrested for something else, then the alcohol consumption becomes an issue. There are no alcohol police at DXB waiting to "trap" arriving visitors who've had a glass of wine on their flight.

FlyHappy wrote:

Politically, if Dubai is unable change their law, then EK (as de facto state carrer) should change their serving policy.

FlyHappy wrote:

What you and other posters miss with my posts, is that I am addressing the appropriateness of charging/detaining a person for a crime which the state is complicit in: serving of alcohol to people enroute to their home country where it is illegal.

scbriml wrote:

FlyHappy wrote:

What you and other posters miss with my posts, is that I am addressing the appropriateness of charging/detaining a person for a crime which the state is complicit in: serving of alcohol to people enroute to their home country where it is illegal.

I don't think it is illegal. AFAIK Sharjah is the only Emirate where consumption of alcohol is actually illegal.

As I stated before, in the very few cases that are reported in the tabloid press as "arrested for drinking alcohol" another offence is nearly always involved.

L410Turbolet wrote:

FlyHappy wrote:

Politically, if Dubai is unable change their law, then EK (as de facto state carrer) should change their serving policy.

They are transporting adults, most often from A to B via DXB. Adults who can make decisions for themselves, is the assumption I think. Unlike with halal food which they force upon you whether you like it or not, I don't think EK crews hold gun to anyone's head to drink alcohol.
What you are suggesting makes as little sense as banning sales of alcohol (e.g. in Europe) everywhere where you can get only by car and where DUI laws exist at the same time
I hate to be defending EK and/or UAE, but the degree of nanny state mentality displayed in this thread is staggering.

moa999 wrote:

Bit of the truth comes out here.
http://www.mediaoffice.ae/en/media-cent ... dubai.aspx


I suspect if you arrived in the US with an expired passport, got angry with the officers, and started filming or photographing them that you wouldn't have a pleasant experience either.

I also wonder whether the alcohol issue came about because of the production of the Iranian passport.

adambrau wrote:

The real kicker, though, is that hasn't Europe been under a brutal heat wave until recently and instead of returning to Dubai could they not have gone to some seaside town in the Uk?

scbriml wrote:

Wow, so there was another side to this story? Just like the other side of the "Indian family thrown off plane because child was crying" is starting to come out. I am shocked.

I'm sure The Sun will print a correction promptly.

scbriml wrote:

There is way more to this 'story' than is being reported in The Sun.

I've lived and worked in Dubai, commuting every month between there and home. I've never had any problem with having consumed alcohol on the flight to Dubai (either EK or BA).

As to needing a licence to purchase alcohol, that is true if you have residency. However, as a visitor, you can buy a limited amount of alcohol when you arrive at DXB - there's a Duty Free shop selling alcohol immediately after immigration for goodness sake! Alcohol is freely available in hotels and clubs

Yes, if you're stupid enough to get smashed out of your head in public, or try and have sex on the beach, you will likely find yourself inside a room with bars (of the steel kind). Dubai receives millions of visitors every year and only a very small minority manage to be so stupid they get themselves arrested.

Dubai isn't Ibiza. Some people can't or won't accept that.

scbriml wrote:

I've never had any problem with having consumed alcohol on the flight to Dubai (either EK or BA).

vhtje wrote:

My feeling is that Dr Holman was not drunk, but that she was belligerent with the immigration officer (there are reports she filmed the immigration officer). The Evening Standard story quotes her, "the thought of buying another ticket and turning straight around for another long flight was unthinkable" I think it was her refusal to accept deportation, not the alcohol, that caused her to be thrown in gaol.

vhtje wrote:

Either way, it is an inescapable fact that the story reflects badly on Emirates and Dubai.

scbriml wrote:

vhtje wrote:

My feeling is that Dr Holman was not drunk, but that she was belligerent with the immigration officer (there are reports she filmed the immigration officer). The Evening Standard story quotes her, "the thought of buying another ticket and turning straight around for another long flight was unthinkable" I think it was her refusal to accept deportation, not the alcohol, that caused her to be thrown in gaol.

As more becomes known about this incident, the more it looks as though that was the case. But that doesn't make such good tabloid clickbait headlines, does it?

vhtje wrote:

Either way, it is an inescapable fact that the story reflects badly on Emirates and Dubai.

Given she apparently boarded the flight with a valid Iranian passport, I don't see how EK has done anything wrong.

Dubai doesn't look so good detaining a mother and young child, agreed. However, as was asked upthread, what would happen if she did the same things (presenting an expired passport, getting agitated and filming) at immigration in the US, for example?

Fiend wrote:

British newspapers also like to senationalise stories as they think it sells newspapers...

Fiend wrote:

British newspapers also like to senationalise stories as they think it sells newspapers...

flybynight wrote:

At the end of the day, it just seem that Emirates should at the very least limit alcohol consumed on flights to certain countries. Now, say to London, Seattle, LA, Copenhagen etc....go for it. Serve away!

SCQ83 wrote:

[I don't know if this is the case anymore but for instance Emirates did not serve alcohol on flights to Saudi Arabia (many if not all muslim carriers do). Which has nothing to do with any law since other carriers like Lufthansa or Singapore Airlines will serve alcohol as soon as they take off from the country. It is probably more due to the fact those are "Muslim" carriers flying to the "Muslim Holy Sites" so alcohol seems a bit out of place in their mind.

scbriml wrote:

I've lived and worked in Saudi and my experience flying BA was that when leaving, alcohol would only be served upon leaving Saudi airspace. The reverse when arriving, all drinks would be have to be consumed or given up before entering Saudi airspace. This was a nine years ago, but I'd be surprised if things have changed much.

If those same rules applied in EK's case, given they'd be entering Saudi airspace not very long after departing Dubai, they might just decide it's not worth the effort.

SCQ83 wrote:

scbriml wrote:

I've lived and worked in Saudi and my experience flying BA was that when leaving, alcohol would only be served upon leaving Saudi airspace. The reverse when arriving, all drinks would be have to be consumed or given up before entering Saudi airspace. This was a nine years ago, but I'd be surprised if things have changed much.

If those same rules applied in EK's case, given they'd be entering Saudi airspace not very long after departing Dubai, they might just decide it's not worth the effort.

I don't know to what extent that is an urban legend. I remember flying SQ JED-AUH-SIN and as soon as the flight departed from Jeddah (so obviously crossing over Saudi airspace) carts with alcohol were being served in the aisle. And while definitely not KSA, Singapore is a relatively conservative country when coming to any type of substance (and they carry a lot of Muslim travellers from Malaysia, Indonesia...). Same from Lufthansa from JED and RUH to FRA (and RUH-FRA flies a bit over KSA); alcohol from the start.

I have also flown Turkish on IST-JED a few times and I can't recall any alcohol despite at least +1 hour is flown over Turkish airspace.

Again I feel this is an "auto-imposed" ban since it look bad from Muslim carriers (which anyway for TK-ME3 is only a 1-2 hour flight... really if you cannot cope without alcohol for such a short flight, KSA is not your best destination) to serve alcohol (haram) flying to the "holy sites" of the Islamic world.

Emirates on the other hand seems to serve alcohol on flights to Kuwait which is also a dry country.

SOBHI51 wrote:

So it's more of an airline policy.

ChrisKen wrote:

SOBHI51 wrote:

So it's more of an airline policy.

and that of the registered country & airspace you're in.

CAA regulations state it is a criminal offence 'to enter an aircraft drunk or be drunk on board an aircraft'. This applies to ALL aircraft on the ground on in the UK, in it's airspace and those G- registered wherever they may be when airbourne. Although it is often flouted, prosecutions are increasing. In a similar vane, it's illegal for a FA to serve to alcohol to someone already intoxicated.

A sovereign nation has complete say over it's airspace with regards to alcohol.
Saudi Arabia laws permits alcohol to be served by airlines simply overflying the country.
Airlines arriving or departing Saudi Arabia must; stop serving alcohol 30 minutes prior to entering Saudi airspace; not serve alcohol on departure until clear of the country's border.