chonetsao wrote:

After all, from my personal observation, what really slows down boarding process is not people can not find their seats, but people constantly looking for head bin space above their own seats. It is normally gone or people have to walk further or against flow to find the space. During this process the queue get jammed up and slowed.

True. However unlike many people here, who plead for bringing less hand luggage on board, I'm thinking at a different solution by just installing larger overhead bins. That would also solve the problem of people constantly looking for a place to store their luggage as there would be plenty of room. The Airspace XL bins would allow for every seat to have a hand luggage suitcase in the bins, they're designed to fit. Unlike conventional overhead bins who really are too small. Mind you, in the Airspace XL bins hand luggage suitcases fit vertically so they take in a lot less space. In the conventional bins they only fit horizontally taking up much more space.

Many of us said when baggage fees became a thing that this was going to increase boarding times, and it has.

When I travel internationally (on airlines that don't have baggage fees), it often takes much less time to board a 777-300ER than it does to board a domestic 737-800. (ANA, for example, only blocks 20-25 minutes for boarding and they often only need 10!) And that's solely because the baggage fees encourage everyone to take their bags on the plane.

Easy solution to boarding times: no more bag fees. Oh, but then I'm sure we'd have people complaining about how they're subsidizing somebody else's checked baggage. Well, pick your poison. You can have checked baggage as a separate fee or you can have fast boarding. You can't have both.

Flighty wrote:

Basically no. Generally zone boarding works fine. If you think you can design a better zone algorithm, go ahead and sell it to airlines. Chances are you cannot. It's great to think about logistical efficiency, but this is one issue that has been completely studied to death and what you see is the best solution. Zone is slightly better than by row. The innovation already happened around the year 1995.

But, is there some evidence that zone works better than free-for-all? When NW did free-for-all for a couple of years in the mid-00s, it was really quick. I think the bigger issue with it was blowback from elites, though there were ways around that.

UALFAson wrote:

I spent almost $8,000 and flew more than 60 segments on my preferred carrier last year. So yes, I do expect to board the plane first so I can get overhead bin space so that I can grab my bag and walk off the plane and immediately into an Uber/taxi when I land. I would bet that the people who complain about this the most are the ones on the cheapest tickets at the back of the line who are jealous that they're not getting the same treatment as elites.

Slow bag delivery is a function of airlines' staffing choices, not of the "system" of checked bags. At OGG a couple of days ago on a 753 (i.e. about as many bulk loaded checked bags as you ever see), DL had bags arriving on the carousel within 10 minutes of blocking in. Priority-tagged bags were all on the belt by 12 or 13 minutes. Maybe your time is so valuable that even that is unacceptable, but for most of us that sort of performance is just fine. The trouble is that it can't be guaranteed on most carriers.

jetmatt777 wrote:

Airlines have spent millions researching this topic, and the results have always pointed to the fact that no matter which way the airplane is boarded, times were practically the same.

This is a case of
"You need to be incapable of having ideas and
you must be incapable of expressing those."

Enough research around on how to do successful fast boardings.

What I haven't seen is a boarding card
with miniaturized seat map with your places marked prominently.

In my experience I think there are two things airlines could do to help the process quite easily.

1. Put Row numbers where passengers can read them as the move down the aisle. If there would be small signs from the cabin roof or even on the floor where passengers can see numbers as they walk to their seat then they will not slow down reading every number on the bulkhead below the overhead bin

2. Put at least one FA in an exit row and at the back or in the rear galley to assist people whop might need extra help finding seats in the back. In time the FA's will be forced to the galley area to facilitate boarding, but at least for a time they can shepherd people to the place then need to go to.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

After all, from my personal observation, what really slows down boarding process is not people can not find their seats, but people constantly looking for head bin space above their own seats. It is normally gone or people have to walk further or against flow to find the space. During this process the queue get jammed up and slowed.

True. However unlike many people here, who plead for bringing less hand luggage on board, I'm thinking at a different solution by just installing larger overhead bins. That would also solve the problem of people constantly looking for a place to store their luggage as there would be plenty of room. The Airspace XL bins would allow for every seat to have a hand luggage suitcase in the bins, they're designed to fit. Unlike conventional overhead bins who really are too small. Mind you, in the Airspace XL bins hand luggage suitcases fit vertically so they take in a lot less space. In the conventional bins they only fit horizontally taking up much more space.

No, you need to do the opposite. Like I mentioned on my post above about QX's ala carte and the Q400 - the reason ala carte is there is because the Q400 bins are so miniscule that nobody uses them - not even for backpacks! My SEA-BOI flight had essentially nothing in the overheads and boarding was fast. Bombardier knew what it was doing!

Am I kidding? I'm not sure...

smithbs wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

After all, from my personal observation, what really slows down boarding process is not people can not find their seats, but people constantly looking for head bin space above their own seats. It is normally gone or people have to walk further or against flow to find the space. During this process the queue get jammed up and slowed.

True. However unlike many people here, who plead for bringing less hand luggage on board, I'm thinking at a different solution by just installing larger overhead bins. That would also solve the problem of people constantly looking for a place to store their luggage as there would be plenty of room. The Airspace XL bins would allow for every seat to have a hand luggage suitcase in the bins, they're designed to fit. Unlike conventional overhead bins who really are too small. Mind you, in the Airspace XL bins hand luggage suitcases fit vertically so they take in a lot less space. In the conventional bins they only fit horizontally taking up much more space.

No, you need to do the opposite. Like I mentioned on my post above about QX's ala carte and the Q400 - the reason ala carte is there is because the Q400 bins are so miniscule that nobody uses them - not even for backpacks! My SEA-BOI flight had essentially nothing in the overheads and boarding was fast. Bombardier knew what it was doing!

Am I kidding? I'm not sure...

What you experienced is very common for certain type of aircrafts. For example, when you fly between Montreal and Toronto City, Air Canada have a trolley just before you enter the aircraft to drop your large carry on. Because the bins are so small on-board and only suitable for suitcases. Ramp staff will load the left over rollover bags into the hold and take them out put on the trolley at your destination. It is done because of the certain type of aircrafts. This procedure can not be done with aircrafts with large over head bins and over 150 people.

StuckinCMHland wrote:

In my experience I think there are two things airlines could do to help the process quite easily.

1. Put Row numbers where passengers can read them as the move down the aisle. If there would be small signs from the cabin roof or even on the floor where passengers can see numbers as they walk to their seat then they will not slow down reading every number on the bulkhead below the overhead bin

you mean like this?


So hard to read them, isn't it? If a dullard is stopping to read each one, placing them elsewhere will result in the same effect.

ChrisKen wrote:

StuckinCMHland wrote:

In my experience I think there are two things airlines could do to help the process quite easily.

1. Put Row numbers where passengers can read them as the move down the aisle. If there would be small signs from the cabin roof or even on the floor where passengers can see numbers as they walk to their seat then they will not slow down reading every number on the bulkhead below the overhead bin

you mean like this?


So hard to read them, isn't it? If a dullard is stopping to read each one, placing them elsewhere will result in the same effect.

No it isn't when you are sitting in front of a computer screen, even dullards can see that. However, if you place that sign in a different place on an airplane it gets easier, especially for people who do not fly often, get nervous in crowds, or is feeling pressured to move quickly because people are crowding in behind them. Lots of people who are not dullards can walk faster if they see a number in front of them, not looking to the side below eye level. When you walk into a sports stadium where do you look for the section you are sitting in? Are you looking into every tunnel or entryway, or are you looking at the signs in front of you in the main walkway with numbers on them? If you are driving on a highway what's easier to see: A. A sign above and in front of you, or B. A sign that is facing parallel to your direction of travel?

Place that sign you posted somewhere where a person can see it as they are walking straight down the aisle to the back of the plane so they are not having to look to the side. Or even post one sign every five seats or so.

If you have eyes in the side of you head I guess you really do not need much help to find your seat.

Last time I checked, the neck was a flexible thing. Guess where the row placards have pretty much always been on aircraft? Ditto trains, buses and coaches.
It's really not hard to read them as you walk. You could even count the rows as you go along.

Are Americans that stereotypical, they're incapable of performing the simplest of tasks without being spoon fed?

OK you win. Let's stick em on the ceiling so we can get the full effect of the gormless staring and pointing at the sky. Oooh shiny!




A century of aviation suggests the placards have found their home. Maybe lowering the 'modern' age's self entitled, impatient, 'me me me' attitude is more useful way to tackle it. You can't load a narrow tube full of people in double quick time, learn to deal with and accept it.

questions wrote:

Much of it is driven by the desire for overhead bin space and the amount of stuff passengers bring onboard, especially in the US. On carriers outside the US where it is more customary to check luggage and carry on luggage is minimal, the boarding seems more civilized and takes less time.

With that said, the airlines also contribute to the mess by making money from boarding — e.g., passengers with the airline’s co-branded credit card receive early boarding privileges; customers in premium economy receive early boarding privileges.

Other than airlines that are using/testing boarding corrals to force some order to the madness, nothing’s really being done... because no one really wants to solve this.

So... we end up with this:

Group 1 — Empathy. People who move slower. Passengers with enfants in arms; passengers with toddlers in strollers; elderly passengers

Group 2 — Greed. People who’ve given us more money in the short or long term. First Class; elite flyers; premium economy; co-branded credit card holders

Group 3 — Who Invited You? All other passengers

I like how you have crystallized it. Would be great if each airline used the same grouping names:
"Empathy group - children, military, handicapped, those with support animals other than peacocks - board now"
"Greed group - you've paid more, board now - first class, business class, economy plus class, economy extra class, creditcard holders, those who paid for their seats"
"Cheapskates - find your seat - you paid us nothing extra, you can go to the back, don't expect peanuts or bin space..."

ChrisKen wrote:

Last time I checked, the neck was a flexible thing. Guess where the row placards have pretty much always been on aircraft? Ditto trains, buses and coaches.
It's really not hard to read them as you walk. You could even count the rows as you go along.

Are Americans that stereotypical, they're incapable of performing the simplest of tasks without being spoon fed?

OK you win. Let's stick em on the ceiling so we can get the full effect of the gormless staring and pointing at the sky. Oooh shiny!




A century of aviation suggests the placards have found their home. Maybe lowering the 'modern' age's self entitled, impatient, 'me me me' attitude is more useful way to tackle it. You can't load a narrow tube full of people in double quick time, learn to deal with and accept it.

Chris,

I can't really help it that you have your biases and warped opinions on your sleeve so everyone can see. Go whine to your friends about how bad Americans are, or maybe a better idea might be to come to the US and talks to some people instead of getting your opinions from some media outlet or social media site.

Oh no I mentioned the American stereotype (as part of a question), therefore I must be anti American. Not that old anet chestnut!

Bias and warped opinions? You're the one suggesting people are incapable of reading perfectly adequate placards. Go forth and multiply.

ChrisKen wrote:

Are Americans that stereotypical, they're incapable of performing the simplest of tasks without being spoon fed?

As an American, I have to answer that question in the affirmative. Sadly.

I recently took a trip to Japan that included three internal flights. Each of those flights began boarding 15 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time, and each was full, with all passengers seated and buckled up for a precisely on-time take-off. Oh, one of the flights was on a 375 seat domestic 772!!!! Ok, the Japanese may be a stereotypically regimented society, but we Americans are stereotypically dottards.

Yes, sad to hear Hinckley.

It's amazing what happens when people think and work towards the collective good, rather than having their heads firmly wedged up their own inflated self importance.

smithbs wrote:

And I agree with those being last on the plane - who wants the privilege of sitting longer on the plane? I wait until close to last to board, except for those days when my kids were small.

In the past few months I had two not too pleasant experiences by boarding last: On one flight, as others have mentioned, there was no overhead space available anymore, so I ended up with my bag on my lap (too big/wrong shape to go under the seat) for a few hours. On the other, another passenger had already taken my assigned window seat, and I didn't want to make a fuss since we were already delayed. Also, him and I didn't have a common language.
The problem with the bags isn't necessarily a general lack of space, but how wasteful passengers use it and that empty bins end up being nowhere near your seat (which introduces another cause for delay when you have to go to row 25 to stuff your bag, then return to your seat in row 5; or alternatively go to row 39, find the bins unavailable -the last and first bins are often reserved for equipment-, put the bags in row 25 and then go to row 39 again).


Having to pay to sit together is also an issue: You end up with families split all over the place. Of course, the parents have to make sure their kids are properly seated, so they move all over the place and against the flow.

Slightly unrelated, but why do most airports in the US (except SFO, LAX TBIT and a few others) have only single aerobridges, even for widebody aircraft? Twin aerobridges for widebodies can cut down quite a bit of boarding time, and even narrowbody aircraft in many parts of the world board through two doors.

Also, why do so few US airports have remote boarding stands, which leads to aircraft waiting for gates with no alternatives?

VS11 wrote:

Easily solvable - there could be reserved spots in the overhead bins. Not sure why this is not being done even now.

Because the overhead bins are too small, there's not enough room in there for everyones luggage.

Of course it is solveable. If you put in the Airspace XL bins (they're a lot bigger than ordinary overhead bins) you could assign an overhead space bin to every seat. These bins are big enough so that a hand luggage suitcase fits vertical, that way it doesn't take up so much space. You can easily have 3 suitcases per row, there'd even be room left for loose items.

Large overhead bins should be mandatory on every airline that charges for checked luggage.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

VS11 wrote:

Large overhead bins should be mandatory on every airline that charges for checked luggage.

Every airline charges for checked luggage, whether it's bundled, un-bundled or falsely claimed as 'bags go free'.

You don't need XL bins on every aircraft. Just apply the cabin baggage size limits that exist at every airline and tackle the selfishly ugly 'me me me' self-entitled culture you've brought on yourselves.

It's not rocket science, tens of thousands of flights around the globe manage this daily without all this pissing around.

Seems like the consensus is that 2 doors speeds things up. I recall B6 doing a lot more of this when they first started flying, even at FLL. I'm not sure how common it is with them still.

I have two pet peeves during boarding.
1. My boarding pass says Zone 1, but in reality they call at least 3 different groups before me with Diamond, Elite, etc and Military, Wheelchairs, Children.
2. Gate agents who make NO effort to enforce whatever policy their carrier has. I can't tell you how many times I've been waiting to board and I see the usual que of people hanging around and I never hear an announcement ever, I just see that they have started letting everyone on.

Just had an email from United with a statement that boarding at *some* DEN gates is changing. After the priority groups, they’ll board window seats first, then middle seats, then aisle seats. They claim this will ease congestion. We’ll see. I’m flying tomorrow, but have no idea whether my gate will participate.