I posted this question a few years back-
What are some current Int'l city pairs that are either underserved or where service hasn't started yet?
Which routes makes business sense to either start new service or expand on existing service?
I realize there are a myriad of reasons why services on some city pairs either haven't started or haven't expanded but give me your thoughts on potential
future services.
Some potential examples are -
LAX- HAN/SGN
SFO- MXP/FCO
SFO- GIG/GRU
ZRH- DEN or IAH
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
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- MalevTU134
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
TLV-DXB.
Of the ones you mention, I can only see LAX-SGN being commercially viable.
Of the ones you mention, I can only see LAX-SGN being commercially viable.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
ZRH-DEN was just started this summer. We'll see how the season goes!
In before this turns into a DTW thread...
In before this turns into a DTW thread...
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
DEL-ISB
Relations still bad between India and Pakistan.
Relations still bad between India and Pakistan.
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- irishpower
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
Years ago it was expansion into the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China).
What about MINT (Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria and Turkey) right now? I could see more services into MEX, IST (with new airport), CGK and LOS.
What about MINT (Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria and Turkey) right now? I could see more services into MEX, IST (with new airport), CGK and LOS.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
Given that GIG is getting cuts all over the place, I see no chance SFO-GIG happens
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
YUL-BEY is definitely one.
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- Brickell305
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
You could put LHR - (insert mid sized US city) for a lot of those.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
SFO-MXP or FCO is a bit difficult (although I would quite like it!). AZ flew it for years, with little success, and as yet there are not star alliance connections that are too good.
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- CrawleyBen
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
[twoid][/twoid]
I presume you mean underserved for is route? British Airways operates the route daily from Gatwick using one of their 777's, but don't believe any other carrier operates there non-stop from London or elsewhere in the UK.
Ben
Murdoughnut wrote:TPA-London
I presume you mean underserved for is route? British Airways operates the route daily from Gatwick using one of their 777's, but don't believe any other carrier operates there non-stop from London or elsewhere in the UK.
Ben
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
OAG data suggested the top 3 unserved Long haul was:
SGN-LAX
JFK-DAC
MAN-BKK
SGN-LAX
JFK-DAC
MAN-BKK
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- PatrickZ80
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
Some examples:
Amsterdam - Denver
Amsterdam - Las Vegas
Copenhagen - Cape Town
Copenhagen - Chicago
Kansai - Irkutsk
Keflavik - Houston
Keflavik - Istanbul
Madrid - Bangkok
Madrid - Cape Town
Mexico City - Hong Kong
Mexico City - Honolulu
Mumbai - Jakarta
Rome - Cape Town
Rome - Nairobi
Warsaw - San Francisco
Amsterdam - Denver
Amsterdam - Las Vegas
Copenhagen - Cape Town
Copenhagen - Chicago
Kansai - Irkutsk
Keflavik - Houston
Keflavik - Istanbul
Madrid - Bangkok
Madrid - Cape Town
Mexico City - Hong Kong
Mexico City - Honolulu
Mumbai - Jakarta
Rome - Cape Town
Rome - Nairobi
Warsaw - San Francisco
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- MalevTU134
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
User001 wrote:OAG data suggested the top 3 unserved Long haul was:
SGN-LAX
JFK-DAC
MAN-BKK
Well, yeah, that could be so, but...Biman Bangladesh has spent decades losing money flying to JFK.
And MAN-BKK has murderous competition from the ME3 and virtually every European and SE Asian airline.
So, unserved doesn't necessarily mean it can be (easily) served profitably, even though PDEW numbers are huge.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
North American routes from Dusseldorf seem woefully underserved. One would imagine that a catchment area of 10 million people in one of the strongest business areas in Germany would offer more than a flight to ATL on DL and a flight to EWR on LH. I’m quite surprised that LH hasn’t replaced any of the Air Berlin flights that they used to to fly to the U.S. Flights to Canada are also lacking which seems odd given the good relation between between LH and AC and with the empty hole of having Air Berlin gone I would think that this would be an opportune time to start some new routes.
Last edited by 748iDEN on Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Brickell305
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
PatrickZ80 wrote:Some examples:
Amsterdam - Denver
Amsterdam - Las Vegas
Copenhagen - Cape Town
Copenhagen - Chicago
Kansai - Irkutsk
Keflavik - Houston
Keflavik - Istanbul
Madrid - Bangkok
Madrid - Cape Town
Mexico City - Hong Kong
Mexico City - Honolulu
Mumbai - Jakarta
Rome - Cape Town
Rome - Nairobi
Warsaw - San Francisco
Do Mexicans really go to Hawaii in significant numbers? I know there’s a lot of domestic tourism to their own resort towns and international to places like Miami and the Caribbean. Didn’t know there was a significant market to Hawaii.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
DEL/BOM - IAH
PVG - IAH
SGN - IAH
CLO - IAH
GYE - IAH
CAI - IAH
DMM - IAH
PVG - IAH
SGN - IAH
CLO - IAH
GYE - IAH
CAI - IAH
DMM - IAH
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
EIN-DXB
EIN-FCO
EIN-HEL
EIN-JFK
EIN-KEF
EIN-LCA
EIN-MUC
EIN-MXP
EIN-OSL
EIN-PUJ
EIN-SXF
EIN-FCO
EIN-HEL
EIN-JFK
EIN-KEF
EIN-LCA
EIN-MUC
EIN-MXP
EIN-OSL
EIN-PUJ
EIN-SXF
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
I'd say BOS-ICN. Funny that it was once served via JFK and now BOS has several asian routes but ICN has not returned.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
YYZ-DUS (formerly served by LH, AB intended to start this year, and subsequently went under)
YYZ-HAM (Anna aero unserved route of the week, huge potential)
YYZ-GIG (formerly served by AC pre economic crash in Brazil)
There are more, but these routes have proven they have some legitimacy and can be operated to some degree of success.
YYZ-HAM (Anna aero unserved route of the week, huge potential)
YYZ-GIG (formerly served by AC pre economic crash in Brazil)
There are more, but these routes have proven they have some legitimacy and can be operated to some degree of success.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
MAN - CPT or JNB
DUB - CPT or JNB
STN - to anywhere in the Americas!
CPT - MIA
DUB - CPT or JNB
STN - to anywhere in the Americas!
CPT - MIA
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
Talking about my home Airport: HAM-NYC, MIA, LAX, ORD, YYZ, BKK, SIN are the ones that first come to my mind.
Only NYC being (under)served.
Miami saw LH service in the early 90s,
LAX existed as a two stop service by NWA via LGW and MSP,
ORD was served by AA with one stop+AC change in BRU,
YYZ was served by Wardair, Canada 3000 and airtransat,
BKK (HUGE amount of local traffic) was served by LTU in the 90s, there were never any flights to SIN.
Only NYC being (under)served.
Miami saw LH service in the early 90s,
LAX existed as a two stop service by NWA via LGW and MSP,
ORD was served by AA with one stop+AC change in BRU,
YYZ was served by Wardair, Canada 3000 and airtransat,
BKK (HUGE amount of local traffic) was served by LTU in the 90s, there were never any flights to SIN.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
FAT-MEX,FAT-BJX, possibly FAT-SJD
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
YHZ-AMS - Though I won't be surprised if WS eventually operate that on a MAX, similar to Paris.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
BOM - CPT
BOM - SYD
BOM - LAX
BOM - SYD
BOM - LAX
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
748iDEN wrote:North American routes from Dusseldorf seem woefully underserved. One would imagine that a catchment area of 10 million people in one of the strongest business areas in Germany would offer more than a flight to ATL on DL and a flight to EWR on LH. I’m quite surprised that LH hasn’t replaced any of the Air Berlin flights that they used to to fly to the U.S. Flights to Canada are also lacking which seems odd given the good relation between between LH and AC and with the empty hole of having Air Berlin gone I would think that this would be an opportune time to start some new routes.
Lufthansa launched MIA-DUS one week after Airberlin went under. Orlando and Fort Meyers also quickly regained DUS flights.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
Believe it or not a route served by at least someone for the past 15 years, BOS-CUN, is underserved and it was even listed as such in an OAG white paper.
In 2011 - O+D was 152K but the pax who flew non-stop were about 80K out of 100K seats. In 2017 94K passengers flew and 107K seats were available by scheduled carriers - I believe either FI or VX (R.I.P.) did charters which adds another 5K or so. Also the leading BOS-CUN carrier, B6 is know to have connections through BOS on these warm-weather routes so its possible its not all BOS O+D.
For W18/19 that may be changing since DL is adding extra frequencies December through March.
Being a destination that can be low cost (depends where you stay), it is common for people to choose their cheapest flight option in this market so there is a reason for it being underserved. Lets see how DL's experiment goes.
In 2011 - O+D was 152K but the pax who flew non-stop were about 80K out of 100K seats. In 2017 94K passengers flew and 107K seats were available by scheduled carriers - I believe either FI or VX (R.I.P.) did charters which adds another 5K or so. Also the leading BOS-CUN carrier, B6 is know to have connections through BOS on these warm-weather routes so its possible its not all BOS O+D.
For W18/19 that may be changing since DL is adding extra frequencies December through March.
Being a destination that can be low cost (depends where you stay), it is common for people to choose their cheapest flight option in this market so there is a reason for it being underserved. Lets see how DL's experiment goes.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
BLQ - New York.
If Emirates is able to sustain (year round) a daily 777W service to DXB I'm pretty sure there is room for a direct link to US. Cargo and Premium Passengers are definitively available in Bologna and its catchment area. A 767/787 should work nicely in this route.
If Emirates is able to sustain (year round) a daily 777W service to DXB I'm pretty sure there is room for a direct link to US. Cargo and Premium Passengers are definitively available in Bologna and its catchment area. A 767/787 should work nicely in this route.
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- zakuivcustom
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
For me...
KIX-LHR
KIX-JFK
TYO-LAS
TYO-Secondary Europe like ATH, BER
LAX or SFO-BKK (I know...low yield and all)
MNL-HAN/SGN (I'm always somewhat surprised by how underserved it is between Vietnam and Philippines anyway, yes, relation are not the warmest but not exactly bad, either).
CTU-DEL/BOM (China - India overall is somewhat underserved, even with the relative lack of tie between the two)
KIX-LHR
KIX-JFK
TYO-LAS
TYO-Secondary Europe like ATH, BER
LAX or SFO-BKK (I know...low yield and all)
MNL-HAN/SGN (I'm always somewhat surprised by how underserved it is between Vietnam and Philippines anyway, yes, relation are not the warmest but not exactly bad, either).
CTU-DEL/BOM (China - India overall is somewhat underserved, even with the relative lack of tie between the two)
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- Freshside3
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
TATLTALE wrote:SFO-MXP or FCO is a bit difficult (although I would quite like it!). AZ flew it for years, with little success, and as yet there are not star alliance connections that are too good.
AZ had it to MXP. The better airport would have been FCO, for both locals and connections.
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- Freshside3
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
IAH-HKG or any other Chinese destination
LAX-SGN
ORD-ATH, PRG, TLV
AER to any hub in the EU
ORK to BOS/or NYC Airports/or IAD
Eilat(New Airport, when it opens) to a NYC airport.
Any Mexico service from FAT
SFO-FCO, BKK
LAX-SGN
ORD-ATH, PRG, TLV
AER to any hub in the EU
ORK to BOS/or NYC Airports/or IAD
Eilat(New Airport, when it opens) to a NYC airport.
Any Mexico service from FAT
SFO-FCO, BKK
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
LED-NYC
LED-AUH
SVO-SFO
LED-AUH
SVO-SFO
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
Tirana to most everywhere.
Checked the price of some flights and they'd make your eyes water.
Checked the price of some flights and they'd make your eyes water.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
It is astonishing that there seem to be ZERO NYC/GIG non-stop flights anymore. Clearly there isn’t the market or at least AA or LATAM would be flying it. In the 90’s there was at least 3, VARIG, AA and Continental.
From Europe there are many, and LH uses a 748 I believe.
I would love to see UA do it from EWR (given the large Brazilian population in northern NJ) - UA does have a good connection to SDU which would be amazing if you didn’t have to switch terminals at GRU. Or go through IAH, either way Rio de Janeiro is one of the most famous cities in the world- but not connected to NYC non-stop. A route once seen often in the movies!
From Europe there are many, and LH uses a 748 I believe.
I would love to see UA do it from EWR (given the large Brazilian population in northern NJ) - UA does have a good connection to SDU which would be amazing if you didn’t have to switch terminals at GRU. Or go through IAH, either way Rio de Janeiro is one of the most famous cities in the world- but not connected to NYC non-stop. A route once seen often in the movies!
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- master14225
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
YYZ-NRT, I feel that NH or JAL can serve that route with a 787 or 777 and connect passengers to Eastern Canada and Transborder USA just like at ORD.
Another route I think of is YYZ-DOH, I know it's Canada's fault with Air Canada trying to be a monopoly but now they are talking with UAE on increasing number of flights between DXB and AUH to YYZ, I'm sure they can do the same w DOH.
Another route I think of is YYZ-DOH, I know it's Canada's fault with Air Canada trying to be a monopoly but now they are talking with UAE on increasing number of flights between DXB and AUH to YYZ, I'm sure they can do the same w DOH.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
[photoid][/photoid]
TLV-DXB will probably come before TLV-RUH, or TLV-JED. Although there is another thread saying that just in the last little while the first plane overflew SA on the way to TLV, so who knows?
MalevTU134 wrote:TLV-DXB.
Of the ones you mention, I can only see LAX-SGN being commercially viable.
TLV-DXB will probably come before TLV-RUH, or TLV-JED. Although there is another thread saying that just in the last little while the first plane overflew SA on the way to TLV, so who knows?
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
IAH - ICN
IAH - JED
IAH - BAH
IAH - AUH
IAH- KHI
IAH - PER
IAH - FCO
IAH - JED
IAH - BAH
IAH - AUH
IAH- KHI
IAH - PER
IAH - FCO
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
With relations looking like they may improve ADD-ASM. Data won't prove it atm, but there will be strong demand for this route when everything normalizes; VFR and Business wise
In a similar boat; routes between DEL/BOM to LHE/KHI/ISB
In a similar boat; routes between DEL/BOM to LHE/KHI/ISB
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
PDX-CDG (not served)
PDX-ICN (not served)
PDX-LHR (underserved, could probably work year-round instead of just summer seasonal)
IND-LHR (not served)
PDX-ICN (not served)
PDX-LHR (underserved, could probably work year-round instead of just summer seasonal)
IND-LHR (not served)
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
Elp-Dtw
Elp-Sea
Elp-Mco
Elp-Nyc area
Eze-Tlv
Eze-Lis
Aus/Sat-mfe
Elp-Sea
Elp-Mco
Elp-Nyc area
Eze-Tlv
Eze-Lis
Aus/Sat-mfe
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
O sorry, international routes....
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
From India:
BOM-ORD
DEL-LAX
BOM-PVG
BOM-JNB
DEL-MAN
BOM/DEL-BCN
Anything India to STN/LGW
From S. America:
COR-MAD
EZE-LAX
EZE-ORD
EZE-LIS
EZE-MUC
GRU/SCL/EZE-SFO
BOM-ORD
DEL-LAX
BOM-PVG
BOM-JNB
DEL-MAN
BOM/DEL-BCN
Anything India to STN/LGW
From S. America:
COR-MAD
EZE-LAX
EZE-ORD
EZE-LIS
EZE-MUC
GRU/SCL/EZE-SFO
Last edited by Irehdna on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- BritTraveller
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
LHR - KIX
LHR - CWL
LCY - MAN
LON - DPS
LHR - PTY
LHR - CWL
LCY - MAN
LON - DPS
LHR - PTY
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
North America (anywhere) to Lebanon
Helsinki to Canada (anywhere)
Stockholm to Canada (anywhere)
Thailand/Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia to the US
No Canadian or US airline flying to Vienna
Canary Islands to North America
Helsinki to Canada (anywhere)
Stockholm to Canada (anywhere)
Thailand/Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia to the US
No Canadian or US airline flying to Vienna
Canary Islands to North America
Last edited by alan3 on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
Flights over 5-6 hours means a need for usually larger, widebody aircraft. There may not be enough demand every day or year around enough to be profitable to use a suitable widebody, it makes more sense to bring people to a hub like MIA for Central, South American and Caribbean services. Also Miami has become the main business hub for Latin America, not so much NYC or other major US cities.
One other issue is if there are economic problems in a given country, increased standards to get visas (like to the USA) or not enough freight, heavily seasonal variations, that may reduce demand enough to limit operating more non-stop services.
One other issue is if there are economic problems in a given country, increased standards to get visas (like to the USA) or not enough freight, heavily seasonal variations, that may reduce demand enough to limit operating more non-stop services.
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
MAN - DEL
MAN - HND
MAN - BKK
MAN - SVO
MAN - JND
MAN - MIA
MAN - HND
MAN - BKK
MAN - SVO
MAN - JND
MAN - MIA
Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
From E/SE Asia:
SIN-YVR/YYZ
BKK/SGN-LAX
HKG-CLT/ATL
HND-PHL/CLT
SIN-YVR/YYZ
BKK/SGN-LAX
HKG-CLT/ATL
HND-PHL/CLT
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- Luisvalero
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Re: Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served
LHR-PTY
LHR-LIM
LHR-DAR
LHR-EBB
LHR-CCU
LHR-KIX
LIS-SFO
LIS-EZE
LIS-TLV
MAD-IAH
MAD-IKA
MAD-BOM
MAD-SIN
MAD-BKK
MAD-CAN
BCN-MEX
BCN-HAV
BCN-LIM
BCN-SCL
BCN-GIG
BCN-DEL
BCN-BKK
BCN-NRT
CDG-KUL
CDG-CGK
CDG-MNL
BRU-GRU
BRU-SIN
BRU-ICN
BRU-DEL
AMS-SGN
AMS-HAN
FCO-BOG
FCO-ACC
FCO-LOS
FCO-BOM
FCO-KIX
MXP-MEX
MXP-EZE
MXP-JNB
MXP-NBO
MXP-KUL
MXP-KIX
ZRH-IAH
ZRH-MEX
ZRH-BOG
ZRH-DSS
VIE-JNB
VIE-DEL
VIE-SIN
FRA-LIM
FRA-CGK
MUC-GRU
MUC-EZE
MUC-KUL
MUC-KIX
TXL-PVG
TXL-HKG
CPH-ICN
And so onnnnnnnn
LHR-LIM
LHR-DAR
LHR-EBB
LHR-CCU
LHR-KIX
LIS-SFO
LIS-EZE
LIS-TLV
MAD-IAH
MAD-IKA
MAD-BOM
MAD-SIN
MAD-BKK
MAD-CAN
BCN-MEX
BCN-HAV
BCN-LIM
BCN-SCL
BCN-GIG
BCN-DEL
BCN-BKK
BCN-NRT
CDG-KUL
CDG-CGK
CDG-MNL
BRU-GRU
BRU-SIN
BRU-ICN
BRU-DEL
AMS-SGN
AMS-HAN
FCO-BOG
FCO-ACC
FCO-LOS
FCO-BOM
FCO-KIX
MXP-MEX
MXP-EZE
MXP-JNB
MXP-NBO
MXP-KUL
MXP-KIX
ZRH-IAH
ZRH-MEX
ZRH-BOG
ZRH-DSS
VIE-JNB
VIE-DEL
VIE-SIN
FRA-LIM
FRA-CGK
MUC-GRU
MUC-EZE
MUC-KUL
MUC-KIX
TXL-PVG
TXL-HKG
CPH-ICN
And so onnnnnnnn
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