Int'l Routes that are underserved/not served

BoeingGuy · Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:39 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Some examples:

Amsterdam - Denver
Amsterdam - Las Vegas
Copenhagen - Cape Town
Copenhagen - Chicago
Kansai - Irkutsk
Keflavik - Houston
Keflavik - Istanbul
Madrid - Bangkok
Madrid - Cape Town
Mexico City - Hong Kong
Mexico City - Honolulu
Mumbai - Jakarta
Rome - Cape Town
Rome - Nairobi
Warsaw - San Francisco

Darn if airline route planners missed all these profitable routes.

I’m not picking on anyone on this thread, but there is a good reason why a given route isn’t flown. If route planners thought a route would be profitable, and fit in an airlines’s strategy, and had authorizion to fly it, they probably would. There is a good reason why none of these routes are flown.

Murdoughnut · Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:44 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Murdoughnut wrote:
TPA-London

I presume you mean underserved for is route? British Airways operates the route daily from Gatwick using one of their 777's, but don't believe any other carrier operates there non-stop from London or elsewhere in the UK.

Ben

I did mean underserved. BA does quite well on daily TPA-LGW service despite the fact that over half of Tampa Bay originating pax divert to MCO. I have a feeling you'll see another competitor jump into that market real soon.

ktarabay98 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:13 am

Unserved:
SJU-MEX
SJU-LIM
SJU-GRU
SJU-EZE
SJU-SJO
SJU-BCN
SJU-LGW/LHR (Norwegian operated this route, but it was dropped despite having high loadfactors)
SJU-PTP
SJU-FDF
SJU-SLU
SJU-BGI
SJU-SVD
SJU-GND
SJU-POS
SJU-AUA
SJU-CUR

Underserved:
SJU-ANU (Currently 5 Weekly)
SJU-DOM (Currently 4 weekly)
SJU-YYZ (Currently seasonal)
SJU-YUL (Currently seasonal)
SJU-MAD (Currently seasonal)
SJU-FRA (Currently 1 weekly)

nomorerjs · Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:25 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Some examples:

Amsterdam - Denver
Amsterdam - Las Vegas
Copenhagen - Cape Town
Copenhagen - Chicago
Kansai - Irkutsk
Keflavik - Houston
Keflavik - Istanbul
Madrid - Bangkok
Madrid - Cape Town
Mexico City - Hong Kong
Mexico City - Honolulu
Mumbai - Jakarta
Rome - Cape Town
Rome - Nairobi
Warsaw - San Francisco

Darn if airline route planners missed all these profitable routes.

I’m not picking on anyone on this thread, but there is a good reason why a given route isn’t flown. If route planners thought a route would be profitable, and fit in an airlines’s strategy, and had authorizion to fly it, they probably would. There is a good reason why none of these routes are flown.

SK has been flying CPH-ORD for decades.

Realistic:
ORD-ATH (seasonal)
ORD-BOM
ORD-OSL (seasonal)
ORD-PRG (seasonal)
ORD-TLV
DFW-BCN (seasonal)
DFW-DUB (seasonal)

Stretch:
ORD-LIM
ORD-MXP
DFW-NGO

If JV approved:
ORD-BNE (SYD when aircraft available)
DFW-AKL
DFW-MEL

cofannyc · Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:31 am

VC10er wrote:
It is astonishing that there seem to be ZERO NYC/GIG non-stop flights anymore. Clearly there isn’t the market or at least AA or LATAM would be flying it. In the 90’s there was at least 3, VARIG, AA and Continental.

What's wrong with the almost daily year-round AA flight? Also, DL serves it seasonally still.

Luisvalero · Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:34 am

Luisvalero wrote:
LHR-PTY
LHR-LIM
LHR-DAR
LHR-EBB
LHR-CCU
LHR-KIX
LIS-SFO
LIS-EZE
LIS-TLV
MAD-IAH
MAD-IKA
MAD-BOM
MAD-SIN
MAD-BKK
MAD-CAN
BCN-MEX
BCN-HAV
BCN-LIM
BCN-SCL
BCN-GIG
BCN-DEL
BCN-BKK
BCN-NRT
CDG-KUL
CDG-CGK
CDG-MNL
BRU-GRU
BRU-SIN
BRU-ICN
BRU-DEL
AMS-SGN
AMS-HAN
FCO-BOG
FCO-ACC
FCO-LOS
FCO-BOM
FCO-KIX
MXP-MEX
MXP-EZE
MXP-JNB
MXP-NBO
MXP-KUL
MXP-KIX
ZRH-IAH
ZRH-MEX
ZRH-BOG
ZRH-DSS
GVA-IAD
GVA-LAX
GVA-ORD
GVA-BOM
GVA-SIN
GVA-HKG
GVA-NRT
VIE-JNB
VIE-DEL
VIE-SIN
FRA-LIM
FRA-CGK
MUC-GRU
MUC-EZE
MUC-KUL
MUC-KIX
TXL-PVG
TXL-HKG
CPH-ICN
And so onnnnnnnn

CNForever · Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:52 am

CNF-MIA
CNF-NYC
CNF-PAR
CNF-LON

flyaustralian12 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:59 am

DEN/AKL
DEN/anywhere on Australian east coast, ie. BNE, SYD, MEL

initially in peak season only DEC-JAN & maybe initially only twice a week.

Why ?

Thousands of Australians & Kiwis head to Colorado every year to ski & snowboard.

QF starting flying SYD/YVR a few years ago mainly aimed at Australian skiers & they only initially did DEC-JAN 2 or 3 times a week.

NOTE: Australia summer school holidays start in some states in mid Nov & other in 1st few weeks of Dec & end at the end of Jan. Most schools have 8-10 week break between school years.

SYD/DEN seems to be shorter than SYD/DFW which has been operating nonstop for years, 1stly with a B744er & now with an A380 in both directions nonstop (the 744er used to fly DFW/BNE/SYD)

nomorerjs · Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:07 am

chunhimlai wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
FNJ-PBI
EXT-DTW

What about FNJ-DTW? About a 1/2 dozen people on this forum will give you 100s of reason for this, even though the rest of us get the joke.

FNJ-PBI has huge demand of premium leisure market and i think it could be more successful

But they can connect in DTW (if it wasn’t for DL and Wayne County). Could easily support 2x daily 380 service in off season!

zakuivcustom · Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:15 am

nomorerjs wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:

What about FNJ-DTW? About a 1/2 dozen people on this forum will give you 100s of reason for this, even though the rest of us get the joke.

FNJ-PBI has huge demand of premium leisure market and i think it could be more successful

But they can connect in DTW (if it wasn’t for DL and Wayne County). Could easily support 2x daily 380 service in off season!

Come on, just admit that nobody wants to connect in that crappy underserved airport call DTW :stirthepot:

.

And you need B748 to serve FNJ-PBI. A380 is not good for those premium high value North Korean cargos.

LH658 wrote:
IAH - ICN

A route that KE tried and failed. Hack, chance of AUS-ICN is higher than KE restarting IAH-ICN.

Irehdna wrote:
HKG-CLT/ATL

DL can't even make SEA work :white:

(Personally I think IAH-HKG has a higher chance than ATL or CLT).

P.S. I'm surprised nobody listed any MIA-East Asia routes yet :stirthepot:

bfitzflyer · Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:35 am

SFO - SVO largest Russian population in SF, previously served via seattle on Aeroflot

LH658 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:05 am

IAH - SVO/DME
AUS - ICN
MIA - Far East Asia
DFW - INDIA
Seattle - India

LH658 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:06 am

IAH - SVO/DME
AUS - ICN
MIA - Far East Asia
DFW - INDIA
Seattle - India

727LOVER · Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:34 am

MSY-DEL
CDG-CHS
NRT-LBB
RSW-ICN
GRU-ROC
BDA-NRT
BTR-HKG
FAT-FRA

Writing letters & dashes is fun ! :bouncy:

pnwpdx · Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:36 am

FA9295 wrote:
PDX-CDG (not served)
PDX-ICN (not served)
PDX-LHR (underserved, could probably work year-round instead of just summer seasonal)
IND-LHR (not served)

I agree with the PDX routes. I can definitely see CDG operating on the days that LHR is not operating for Delta.

I could also see PDX-CUN.

FA9295 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:39 am

pnwpdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
PDX-CDG (not served)
PDX-ICN (not served)
PDX-LHR (underserved, could probably work year-round instead of just summer seasonal)
IND-LHR (not served)

I agree with the PDX routes. I can definitely see CDG operating on the days that LHR is not operating for Delta.

I could also see PDX-CUN.

I could totally see a Saturday-only PDX-CUN operation on Delta, given that they have similar schedules to/from CUN from various non-hub U.S. airports.

Hopefully PDX-ICN will come as a result of the DL/KE joint-venture in order to complement Delta's PDX-NRT flight.

British Airways could start daily PDX-LHR on the Boeing 787 (-8 or -9 version) in order to compete against Delta/Virgin Atlantic.

If PDX-CDG were to happen, it would probably operate 3x weekly summer seasonal on the days that PDX-LHR is not operated. I was hoping that Delta would add PDX-CDG when Air France resumed SEA service, similar to Virgin Atlantic adding SEA and Delta moving it's flight from SEA to PDX--but alas, that didn't happen... :cry:

FA9295 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 am

727LOVER wrote:
MSY-DEL
CDG-CHS
NRT-LBB
RSW-ICN
GRU-ROC
BDA-NRT
BTR-HKG
FAT-FRA

Writing letters & dashes is fun !

What a nice fantasy route network you have going on there. I'd wait 'till about 2100 to get most of those routes into effect...

FA9295 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:44 am

Murdoughnut wrote:
CrawleyBen wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Murdoughnut wrote:
TPA-London

I presume you mean underserved for is route? British Airways operates the route daily from Gatwick using one of their 777's, but don't believe any other carrier operates there non-stop from London or elsewhere in the UK.

Ben

I did mean underserved. BA does quite well on daily TPA-LGW service despite the fact that over half of Tampa Bay originating pax divert to MCO. I have a feeling you'll see another competitor jump into that market real soon.

I'm surprised that Norwegian hasn't jumped into the TPA market yet. I think that they'd be quite successful on a LGW-TPA route...

mmo · Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:04 am

ktarabay98 wrote:
Unserved:

SJU-LGW/LHR (Norwegian operated this route, but it was dropped despite having high loadfactors)

Again, we have the A.net myth of "it's full, so it must make money". Load factors don't mean a thing unless you look at the yield too.

hynithuchi · Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:24 am

I would definitely add following unserved routes:
GVA/BOS ( with 321LR )
GVA/GRU or GIG
GVA/TYO
GVA/SIN
GVA/HKG

All these routes would have the potential and also high yield traffic.

binayak · Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:29 am

Slash787 wrote:
BOM - CPT
BOM - SYD
BOM - LAX

The routes you said are indeed unserved but there are more potential ones which are also unserved
BOM - ORD
BOM - SFO
BLR - SFO
BLR - NYC area
DEL - YVR (served thrice weekly by AC but deserves much more)

TheEuphorian · Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:39 am

BKK-LAX/SFO/YVR/SEA

PatrickZ80 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:07 pm

Murdoughnut wrote:
I did mean underserved. BA does quite well on daily TPA-LGW service despite the fact that over half of Tampa Bay originating pax divert to MCO. I have a feeling you'll see another competitor jump into that market real soon.

Even sooner than you think, Norwegian just announced it.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1397435

BritTraveller · Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:04 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:
CrawleyBen wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]

I presume you mean underserved for is route? British Airways operates the route daily from Gatwick using one of their 777's, but don't believe any other carrier operates there non-stop from London or elsewhere in the UK.

Ben

I did mean underserved. BA does quite well on daily TPA-LGW service despite the fact that over half of Tampa Bay originating pax divert to MCO. I have a feeling you'll see another competitor jump into that market real soon.

I'm surprised that Norwegian hasn't jumped into the TPA market yet. I think that they'd be quite successful on a LGW-TPA route...

Coincidence?

FA9295 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:49 pm

BritTraveller wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:

I did mean underserved. BA does quite well on daily TPA-LGW service despite the fact that over half of Tampa Bay originating pax divert to MCO. I have a feeling you'll see another competitor jump into that market real soon.

I'm surprised that Norwegian hasn't jumped into the TPA market yet. I think that they'd be quite successful on a LGW-TPA route...

Coincidence?

LOL!

Wednesdayite · Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:50 am

DEN-MAN

I get very tired of flying in to LHR and then driving up north.

gunnerman · Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:55 am

You could do:
DEN-LHR-MAN (BA)
DEN-ORD-MAN (AA)
DEN-EWR-MAN (UA)
DEN-JFK-MAN (DL/VS).

rock45 · Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:57 am

I can only see LAX-SGN being commercially viable.

Themotionman · Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:27 am

FA9295 wrote:
pnwpdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
PDX-CDG (not served)
PDX-ICN (not served)
PDX-LHR (underserved, could probably work year-round instead of just summer seasonal)
IND-LHR (not served)

I agree with the PDX routes. I can definitely see CDG operating on the days that LHR is not operating for Delta.

I could also see PDX-CUN.

I could totally see a Saturday-only PDX-CUN operation on Delta, given that they have similar schedules to/from CUN from various non-hub U.S. airports.

Hopefully PDX-ICN will come as a result of the DL/KE joint-venture in order to complement Delta's PDX-NRT flight.

British Airways could start daily PDX-LHR on the Boeing 787 (-8 or -9 version) in order to compete against Delta/Virgin Atlantic.

If PDX-CDG were to happen, it would probably operate 3x weekly summer seasonal on the days that PDX-LHR is not operated. I was hoping that Delta would add PDX-CDG when Air France resumed SEA service, similar to Virgin Atlantic adding SEA and Delta moving it's flight from SEA to PDX--but alas, that didn't happen...

Surely PDX-CDG would cannibalise PDX-AMS. They would compete for the same European/African connections. It would be best to funnel them through one hub that divide them into two.

crazyplane1234 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:39 pm

flyaustralian12 wrote:
DEN/AKL
DEN/anywhere on Australian east coast, ie. BNE, SYD, MEL

The problem is that DEN is a "hot and high" airport, so getting an aircraft from there to Australia is more difficult than flying it from LAX or SFO, or even DFW or IAH.

jumpjets · Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:15 pm

Many people may already be aware that each week the anna.aero website has an unserved route of the week feature. It simply takes the number of searches carried out that week on the skyscanner website for routes that have no direct services and the one with most searches is declared unserved route of the week.

Maybe not the best way of identifying unserved routes, but its an approach that gives some interesting answers and may be of interest to some people who haven't seen it. You can see the routes chosen in weeks gone by at the following link

http://www.anna.aero/unserved-route-of-the-week/

flyaustralian12 · Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:03 am

crazyplane1234 wrote:
flyaustralian12 wrote:
DEN/AKL
DEN/anywhere on Australian east coast, ie. BNE, SYD, MEL

The problem is that DEN is a "hot and high" airport, so getting an aircraft from there to Australia is more difficult than flying it from LAX or SFO, or even DFW or IAH.

plenty of A340-500s & -600s around that could surely do routes easily with a decent load.

crazyplane1234 · Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:35 am

flyaustralian12 wrote:
crazyplane1234 wrote:
flyaustralian12 wrote:
DEN/AKL
DEN/anywhere on Australian east coast, ie. BNE, SYD, MEL

The problem is that DEN is a "hot and high" airport, so getting an aircraft from there to Australia is more difficult than flying it from LAX or SFO, or even DFW or IAH.
plenty of A340-500s & -600s around that could surely do routes easily with a decent load.

Name 1 airline based in either Australia or the US that would be willing to operate the A340 just for DEN-Australia. None of them operate that aircraft currently, and the A350 is considered to be the A340's market replacement.

If anything, it'll be the 778 or A359ULR that starts that route.

Alfonsillo · Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:47 pm

BCN-NRT
BCN-BKK
BCN-MEX
BCN-HAV
BCN-DEL
MAD-BKK
MAD-SIN
MAD-IKA
MAD-CAN

flyaustralian12 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:50 am

crazyplane1234 wrote:
flyaustralian12 wrote:
crazyplane1234 wrote:
The problem is that DEN is a "hot and high" airport, so getting an aircraft from there to Australia is more difficult than flying it from LAX or SFO, or even DFW or IAH.
plenty of A340-500s & -600s around that could surely do routes easily with a decent load.

Name 1 airline based in either Australia or the US that would be willing to operate the A340 just for DEN-Australia. None of them operate that aircraft currently, and the A350 is considered to be the A340's market replacement.

If anything, it'll be the 778 or A359ULR that starts that route.

could be an airline in the Pacific that has USA & OZ traffic rights. A direct flight doesn't have to be nonstop. If fact a hub in the Pacific might work better than a nonstop.

Heck even air NZ has been using Hifly while sort out 787 engine problems.

angusjt · Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:18 am

PER-CPT, would be perfectly viable just isn't served due to SAA & QF having a lack of aircraft, I expect something to happen when QF get more 787s.

usdcaguy · Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:29 am

STL/MCI-LHR on AA/BA
AUS-AMS on KL
AUS-ICN on KE
ATL-CPH on DL
MOW-ORD on SU
BLR-SFO on UA
SJC-AMS on KL
BJX-SAT on AM
BJX-ORD on UA
ELP-MEX on AM

MaRoFu · Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:44 pm

EWR to East Asia in general is criminally underserved, especially by foreign carriers (at least compared to JFK).

EWR-ICN is one significant route that comes to mind. New Jersey is home to a large Korean population, and many Korean tech companies have major offices in NJ. I've seen ads for Bergen County to JFK shuttle services so clearly a major demand exists. It's a VERY large gap in EWR's network, and it's REALLY surprising that Asiana, Korean and even United aren't considering taking this golden opportunity. Also surprising this route was never mentioned once in this thread. The lack of direct EWR-Korea service is almost Change.org worthy.

Other international flights EWR could use include:
EWR-HND
EWR-TPE
EWR-MNL
EWR-Middle East/Turkey (outside of TLV and DXB)
EWR-GIG

B0pp0 · Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:27 am

IAD-TLV: Given the ties between the US and Israel and the Jewish population in the DC and Baltimore areas, why this doesn't exist amazes me. Especially when SFO-TLV and BOS-TLV are just as if not less viable. Why United and/or El Al haven't done this amazes me.

BOS-(Moscow): Boston has a decent sized Russian population and I think that this would be as viable at least as a seasonal flight, either for Aeroflot or if they had transatlantic will S7.

BOS-ICN: The second most gaping ICN hole in the US and given the success that JL on BOS-NRT, HU on BOS-PEK/PVG, and CX on BOS-HKG have had I think it would be a gimme for KE to re-enter the market as a non-stop or to be a fifth freedom stop for another Asian carrier.

bagoldex · Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:58 pm

B0pp0 wrote:
IAD-TLV: Given the ties between the US and Israel and the Jewish population in the DC and Baltimore areas, why this doesn't exist amazes me. Especially when SFO-TLV and BOS-TLV are just as if not less viable. Why United and/or El Al haven't done this amazes me.

A large local Jewish population is no guarantee of viability for flights to Israel. It’s much more about the commercial ties and the Israeli expat community in a particular city. Boston and San Francisco work mainly because of their global leadership roles in technology, the life sciences and higher education.

B0pp0 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:37 pm

bagoldex wrote:
B0pp0 wrote:
IAD-TLV: Given the ties between the US and Israel and the Jewish population in the DC and Baltimore areas, why this doesn't exist amazes me. Especially when SFO-TLV and BOS-TLV are just as if not less viable. Why United and/or El Al haven't done this amazes me.

A large local Jewish population is no guarantee of viability for flights to Israel. It’s much more about the commercial ties and the Israeli expat community in a particular city. Boston and San Francisco work mainly because of their global leadership roles in technology, the life sciences and higher education.

And the cozy political ties between the US and Israel are worth nothing? If Saudia and Aeroflot can make Dulles work, there is no way that El Al can too and that's discounting the fact that Dulles is a hub for United and could use an IAD-TLV flight to give relief to EWR-TLV.

bagoldex · Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:05 pm

B0pp0 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
B0pp0 wrote:
IAD-TLV: Given the ties between the US and Israel and the Jewish population in the DC and Baltimore areas, why this doesn't exist amazes me. Especially when SFO-TLV and BOS-TLV are just as if not less viable. Why United and/or El Al haven't done this amazes me.

A large local Jewish population is no guarantee of viability for flights to Israel. It’s much more about the commercial ties and the Israeli expat community in a particular city. Boston and San Francisco work mainly because of their global leadership roles in technology, the life sciences and higher education.

And the cozy political ties between the US and Israel are worth nothing? If Saudia and Aeroflot can make Dulles work, there is no way that El Al can too and that's discounting the fact that Dulles is a hub for United and could use an IAD-TLV flight to give relief to EWR-TLV.

Not to sound like captain obvious but airlines are always evaluating both new and existing routes and apparently they've determined IAD-TLV to not be a worthwhile venture.

Wednesdayite · Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:19 am

gunnerman wrote:
You could do:
DEN-LHR-MAN (BA)
DEN-ORD-MAN (AA)
DEN-EWR-MAN (UA)
DEN-JFK-MAN (DL/VS).

Pretty sure you can connect between most (if not all) of the “underserved/not served” routes discussed in this thread.

Surely the point is that we want the convenience of direct flights?

B0pp0 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:04 pm

bagoldex wrote:
B0pp0 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

A large local Jewish population is no guarantee of viability for flights to Israel. It’s much more about the commercial ties and the Israeli expat community in a particular city. Boston and San Francisco work mainly because of their global leadership roles in technology, the life sciences and higher education.

And the cozy political ties between the US and Israel are worth nothing? If Saudia and Aeroflot can make Dulles work, there is no way that El Al can too and that's discounting the fact that Dulles is a hub for United and could use an IAD-TLV flight to give relief to EWR-TLV.

Not to sound like captain obvious but airlines are always evaluating both new and existing routes and apparently they've determined IAD-TLV to not be a worthwhile venture.

If IAD-TLV isn't worthwhile, then I don't get how IAD-RUH, IAD-JED, and IAD-SVO somehow are. At least Israel and the US truly get along and I would think that the dead season load factors on IAD-TLV would be better than the abysmal ones IAD-SVO gets.

Israel's loss to not do this as a prestige route.

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