727LOVER
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Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:16 am

Delta owns a refinery

In the mid-80s, United (UAL Corp) was building a travel conglomerate. It owned United Airlines, Hertz-Rent A Car and Westin Hotels
They had changed their name to....I want to say Allegis

I think it was Hertz....LOL

Didn't Pan Am own a hotel chain, also
I think AMR Corp owned quite a few businesses, also
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MalevTU134
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:21 am

Examples are endless. AA had SABRE, DL, NW, TW jointly owned Worldspan (GDSs), SK had hotels, SR had hotels... as I said, the list could go on and on...
 
ridgid727
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:28 am

At one time SkyWest owned National Parks Transportation.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:34 am

AMR Corp (AA) had Americana Hotels, SkyChef's as well. Even the original PSA (Pacific Southwest Airlines) owned hotels, and I think a radio station in San Francisco.
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Yflyer
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:39 am

727LOVER wrote:
Didn't Pan Am own a hotel chain, also


IIRC at one time it was not uncommon for airlines to own hotel chains, particularly airlines that served less developed countries, as they wanted their passengers to have a nice place to stay at their destinations. Sabena also owned a chain of hotels at one time -- In fact, the events of Hotel Rwanda took place in a Sabena hotel.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:39 am

In the past, you had SAirGroup, which operated a whole heap of businesses which, combined with the Hunter strategy, led to its collapse (that has still not been settled). Surviving business still trading today include Crossair (became Swiss International Air Lines), Swissport, SR Technics, and Gate Gourmet (all owned by HNA Group albeit acquired in separate transactions - more later), Rail Gourmet (now owned by SSP - The Food Travel Experts), the former Atraxis (fully folded into Electronic Data Systems), Avireal (an REIT and property management company now owned by Priora - sold 1997), CargoLogic (probably part of Lufthansa now), and Swissotel (now owned by Accor).

Now, today, you have HNA Group (parent of Hainan Airlines), which has among its non-airline businesses the former SAir companies SR Technics, Swissport and Gate Gourmet, plus Avolon Aerospace, banking units, tourism units, and commodities training, along with 17 different AOCs in China.

Also, United has its own catering division, Chelsea Food Services. American used to own SkyChefs but sold that business to Lufthansa (it's now LSG SkyChefs).

In Thailand, Bangkok Airways built 3 airports itself and has been the operator of the airports it constructed. But that's related to aviation, along with Delta's Marcus Hook refinery.
 
Shrewfly
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:39 am

Royal Brunei owns a Golf Course in Brunei.

I was on an RBA flight once, and I got talking to the passenger next to me, and he invited me to join him there if I fancied a few holes during my layover. Not wanting to embarrass myself on the golfcourse (and knowing the clubhouse wouldnt serve a decent beer) I politely declined!

I wonder if any other airlines own their own course!
 
Deecheck
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:47 am

Didn't British airways own a hotel in NYC?
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:48 am

Icelandair currently also owns Icelandair Hotels, although the chain is now up for sale.
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Antarius
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:17 am

AF used to own Le Meredien I believe.
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ORDJOE
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:19 am

The delta oil refinery, Jal and Ana had r century (maybe still do) hotels. At least in the us conglomeration is less of a thing. Jack Welch of GE praised the mindset for a company to do a business they should be at top, find out how to get to the the top or close it. Why expose more risk in a business that might not be your strongest suit
 
NozPerry
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:22 am

Norwegian owns Bank Norwegian in Scandinavia
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BC77008
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:25 am

In reverse, Marriott provided catering to a handful of airlines.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:40 am

727LOVER wrote:
Didn't Pan Am own a hotel chain, also


The Inter-Continental Hotels chain.

Air France founded the Le Meridien chain of hotels. Lufthansa was a shareholder of the Kempinski chain, while JAL owns the Nikko Hotel chain.

All the airlines mentioned has since divested itself from its hotel holdings.
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maverick4002
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:46 am

Deecheck wrote:
Didn't British airways own a hotel in NYC?


I think they still do? Its on like 55th or so and between 2nd and 3rd avenue I believe. I think thats where the flight crew stay.
 
Italianflyer
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:51 am

I believe JAL had a line of pre-packaged supermarket foods at some point. TWA was part of the Transworld Corp. that also owned Century 21 Real Estate and Hardee's. Speaking of TWA; they launched the Travel Channel in the 80s.

Was there a crossover of ownership between BOAC and the Cunard Shipping Line?
 
gregn21
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:58 am

HNA Group definitely comes to mind here.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:17 am

Air Koryo has started things as Petrol stations, Taxi, Soft drinks, tobacco and tinned pheasant meat under its brand name.

Image

https://www.nknews.org/wp-content/uploa ... 75x368.jpg
Last edited by Slash787 on Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jplatts
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:22 am

IHG ANA Hotels Group Japan is a joint venture between Intercontinental Hotels Group and All Nippon Airways, and the IHG ANA Hotels Group owns ANA Intercontinental Hotels, ANA Crowne Plaza Hotels, and ANA Holiday Inns in Japan.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:28 am

Emirates Group owns the Dubai Marriott Harbour Hotel & Suites

Emirates Tower has an EK/Dnata office but that is owned by The Jumeirah Group which comes under the Sheikh, so well.....
 
CREST777
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:46 am

Lufthansa Group -

LSG Sky Chefs
LH Technik
Seeheim Conference Hotel (Sold and then bought back again and remodeled)
AirPlus (Credit Card Issuer for Travel)
Spirent (Merchandise, albeit for airlines)
LH Consulting
LH Systems (Now IBM)
LH Intouch - Call Center
time:matters (Logistics)
LH Innovation Hub (Startup Incubator based in BER)
and about 490 more companies

Yes, most of these are within some segment of aviation, but not an airline.
 
hz747300
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:50 am

I believe the Pension Fund for Pakistan International Airlines owned the Roosevelt Hotel in New York. Last time I checked they still did, but were trying to sell it. Nice, and affordable hotel if you want to stay in midtown.
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:55 am

It is reasonable for airlines to have aviation / travel related business (travel agent; hotels; airport; Delta's oil refine; airlines' catering services to other parties etc.)
But any business that is completely not related (excluding property development)?
 
BA744PHX
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:09 am

maverick4002 wrote:
Deecheck wrote:
Didn't British airways own a hotel in NYC?


I think they still do? Its on like 55th or so and between 2nd and 3rd avenue I believe. I think thats where the flight crew stay.


BA never owned that property, only used for accommodations in addition to another hotel in NYC. As of last month BA consolidated all NYC flights to a hotel in midtown west. Rumors keep coming up regarding the flight crews/pilots being very unhappy... (cheap product)
 
PSAjet17
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:24 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
Even the original PSA (Pacific Southwest Airlines) owned hotels, and I think a radio station in San Francisco.

PSA aquired ValCar (started by Hertz) in 1968, added the Hotel Islandia and San Franciscan Hotel (leasehold) in 69. In 1971 they added the Queen Mary Hotel and the Hollywood Park Hotel. The ValCar project was dismantled in 71 and a marketing agreement was signed with Hertz. With the hotel not being profitable, Hyatt was contracted for the Islandia, Queen Mary and Hollywood Park sites in 1974. The Hollywood Park lease was terminated in 1975, the Islandia sold in 76, San Franciscan lease terminated in 79 and Queen Mary in 1980. (Sample brochure in attached picture)

The other venture included 4 radio stations and 2 background music creation companies

http://www.psa-history.org/site/assets/ ... .150x0.jpg
 
juliuswong
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:51 am

AirAsia Group: https://ir.airasia.com/misc/corporate-structure_big.pdf

Too many to be listed.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:56 am

NozPerry wrote:
Norwegian owns Bank Norwegian in Scandinavia


They also own a leasing company (Arctic Aviation Assets), and that company is the one which owns all of the aircraft Norwegian operates not leased to third-party lessors, plus the Airbus A320neo family aircraft ordered by Norwegian (dry-leased to other airlines).

hz747300 wrote:
I believe the Pension Fund for Pakistan International Airlines owned the Roosevelt Hotel in New York. Last time I checked they still did, but were trying to sell it. Nice, and affordable hotel if you want to stay in midtown.


The hotel is the last vestige of PK in NYC after they terminated JFK service last year after more than 50 years. PK also owned Sofitel Hotels before that was sold to Accor and the Roosevelt is PK's last owned hotel. (PIA has managed that hotel since 1979, later buying it.). In addition to the Roosevelt, doesn't PIA also own farms in Pakistan? Reportedly, the hotel has been valued at about a billion dollars and may be worth more now...especially given how a 2-story McDonald's in Manhattan was sold by McDonald's for 9 figures (albeit the buyer wanted the land). https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/19/paki ... 105m-loan/ (for information on the hotel). To clear some of the debt, selling the hotel is a must.

Speaking of hotels, Korean Air owns the Wilshire Grand Center, the tallest building in the USA west of the Mississippi, and has owned the buildings on that site since 1989 (InterContinental Hotels manages it).
 
juliuswong
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:12 am

Shrewfly wrote:
Royal Brunei owns a Golf Course in Brunei.

I was on an RBA flight once, and I got talking to the passenger next to me, and he invited me to join him there if I fancied a few holes during my layover. Not wanting to embarrass myself on the golfcourse (and knowing the clubhouse wouldnt serve a decent beer) I politely declined!

I wonder if any other airlines own their own course!

The golf course (Royal Brunei Golf Club) is part of Royal Brunei Airlines's staff perks. Royal Brunei Catering, Royal Brunei Airlines's catering subsidiary, provides inflight catering services for all airlines which stop at Brunei International Airport. They also own few restaurants throughout Brunei.

In addition, they also run Express Fast Food (which is catering service provider) and laundry services through its chain of laundry shops.

Royal Brunei Trading, another subsidiary of Royal Brunei Airlines, operates a number of duty-free shops in the Airport and is part owner of the McDonald's franchise in Brunei.

They even operate an abattoir to provide Islamic-sanctioned slaughtering facilities to local farmers and butchers!
Last edited by juliuswong on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
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tullamarine
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:15 am

Ansett at one stage owned:
-Ansett Wridgways - removalists
-Ansett Technologies - defence contracting
-ATV10 Melbourne - television station
-Hayman Island Resort
-50% share in Hamilton Island Resort
-Ansett Freight Express - road freight
-Transport Industries Insurance - Insurance company

It did a lot of stuff not related to being an airline which was part of its problems.
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artofzen
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:18 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
I believe the Pension Fund for Pakistan International Airlines owned the Roosevelt Hotel in New York. Last time I checked they still did, but were trying to sell it. Nice, and affordable hotel if you want to stay in midtown.


The hotel is the last vestige of PK in NYC after they terminated JFK service last year after more than 50 years. PK also owned Sofitel Hotels before that was sold to Accor and the Roosevelt is PK's last owned hotel. (PIA has managed that hotel since 1979, later buying it.). In addition to the Roosevelt, doesn't PIA also own farms in Pakistan? Reportedly, the hotel has been valued at about a billion dollars and may be worth more now...especially given how a 2-story McDonald's in Manhattan was sold by McDonald's for 9 figures (albeit the buyer wanted the land). https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/19/paki ... 105m-loan/ (for information on the hotel). To clear some of the debt, selling the hotel is a must.

Speaking of hotels, Korean Air owns the Wilshire Grand Center, the tallest building in the USA west of the Mississippi, and has owned the buildings on that site since 1989 (InterContinental Hotels manages it).


They owned hotel Scribe, was it under Sofitel?

Yes PIA ran a poultry business PIA Shaver and another hotel called Center in Abu Dhabi.
Last edited by artofzen on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:34 am, edited 4 times in total.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:18 am

tullamarine wrote:
Ansett at one stage owned:
-Ansett Wridgways - removalists
-Ansett Technologies - defence contracting
-ATV10 Melbourne - television station
-Hayman Island Resort
-50% share in Hamilton Island Resort
-Ansett Freight Express - road freight
-Transport Industries Insurance - Insurance company

It did a lot of stuff not related to being an airline which was part of its problems.


And Ansett Worldwide Aviation Services (later AWAS, now part of Dubai Aerospace Enterprise).

Allegiant in the USA, now that you remind me of that, owns Sunseeker Resorts.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:27 am

Emirates Leisure Retail Australia (ELRA) is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Emirates Group and is now one of Australian largest hospitality companies. They own Hudson’s Coffee which has over 70 cafes across the country, plus a plethora of food and beverage concessions at Australian airports which operate under various brands.

http://www.emiratesleisureretail.com.au/brands.html
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Theproudbird
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:38 am

Continental owned a hotel chain at one point as well
 
smi0006
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:39 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Emirates Leisure Retail Australia (ELRA) is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Emirates Group and is now one of Australian largest hospitality companies. They own Hudson’s Coffee which has over 70 cafes across the country, plus a plethora of food and beverage concessions at Australian airports which operate under various brands.

http://www.emiratesleisureretail.com.au/brands.html


Emirates group also includes Dnata (which I believe was the first company in the group, and Emirates was founded from, but the Emirates brand selected from the group).

Dnata is huge in ground handling, travel and catering in Middle East, Europe, Asia, Australia and recently they have started in the US too. Of a side note - also just buying QF catering too.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:04 am

Aer Lingus owned or at least had a controlling interest in a number of travel agencies and hotels during the 60s and 70s as it believed these were essential to the airline business at the time.

The airline started with Irish Intercontinental Hotels and then began take overs of Sunbound and Blueskies travel agencies. A golf course in Britain and a holiday resort in Tenerife were also planned but I’m not sure if either of these went ahead, it wasn’t popular with the Irish public or staff that believed a state run agency was investing too much into the private sector.

Aer Lingus then went on to purchase a controlling stake in Dunfey Hotels and by the 80s had interests or full ownership of lesuire, catering, airline and financial services along with dozens of hotels around the world.

This all came to an end in the late 80s and into 90s as it refocused it’s efforts into the core airline business. Like many airlines by the early 00s and especially post 9/11 everything had been sold off under restructuring.
 
Kilopond
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:53 am

Until 2005 British Airways co-owned a giant Ferris Wheel, the "Eye of London". :D
 
HimalayanFlyer
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:24 am

Biman Bangladesh used to (and may still do) own a chicken farm outside Dhaka.
 
smi0006
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:33 am

Not sure if it counts, QF owned a number of different business, a lot of the normal catering and handling ones, but also some unusual ones or partnered around them:

-Jetpets transporting animals around AU
- Star Track express, a parcel delivery service around AU (a JV with Auspost)
- QANTAS Defence Contracts, handling RAAF defence maintanence on the Hercules, 330s, and ministerial Jets.
- Red planet, a customer and marketing data analysis company
- QANTAS Assure a wellness and insurance company



Plus a few other loyalty based organisations
 
Deecheck
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:07 am

maverick4002 wrote:
Deecheck wrote:
Didn't British airways own a hotel in NYC?


I think they still do? Its on like 55th or so and between 2nd and 3rd avenue I believe. I think thats where the flight crew stay.


Sounds right. I didn't know if they still had it. Is it public?
 
Arion640
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:12 am

IAG, or possibly BA to begin with, was once a Eurostar shareholder, but not a majority one I believe.
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tonystan
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:53 pm

Kilopond wrote:
Until 2005 British Airways co-owned a giant Ferris Wheel, the "Eye of London". :D

They didn’t own it, they just sponsored it!
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tonystan
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:00 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
Deecheck wrote:
Didn't British airways own a hotel in NYC?


I think they still do? Its on like 55th or so and between 2nd and 3rd avenue I believe. I think thats where the flight crew stay.


BA never owned that property, only used for accommodations in addition to another hotel in NYC. As of last month BA consolidated all NYC flights to a hotel in midtown west. Rumors keep coming up regarding the flight crews/pilots being very unhappy... (cheap product)


BA leased the building for a little over 20 years or so. They originally had it managed by the Fitzpatrick Hotel group and it was used to accommodate the bulk of the BA crews overnighting in Manhattan although many other hotels around Manhattan and upstate New York have been used for flights too as this hotel was never quite large enough to cover the operation.

A number of years ago however the building was sold and BA did not renew the lease. Shortly after this time the new owners began to refurbish the rooms (previous to this they had been awfully dated with terrible climate control, 70s style interiors and horrific bathrooms) to a modern high standard quality and for most crew the writing was on the wall of the new direction. In more recent months rumors abounded and when the facility announced it was installing kitchen facility’s for the likes of room service and mass catering it was obvious that the crew market was to be no more. As of June 4th this year BA ceased its association with the hotel and the crew home away from home was no more. End of an era and felt somewhat like the family silver was being flogged.

But crew are now being accommodated elsewhere not far away over a number of properties and life goes on. But the original facility was never run for commercial gain other than to maintain and control costs.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
JoKeR
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:48 pm

Good ol' JAT used to own many businesses - from a bus company through to farms, beach and mountain resorts, airports, a pilots academy, hotels, but most interestingly - a radio station!

After Air Serbia took over, the radio station was privatized and still goes strongly under its original name...

Image
 
SCQ83
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:56 pm

Air Europa is part of Globalia which owns travel agencies, tour operators, hotels and a handling agency:

https://www.globalia.com/en/brands
 
melpax
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:46 pm

tullamarine wrote:
Ansett at one stage owned:
-Ansett Wridgways - removalists
-Ansett Technologies - defence contracting
-ATV10 Melbourne - television station
-Hayman Island Resort
-50% share in Hamilton Island Resort
-Ansett Freight Express - road freight
-Transport Industries Insurance - Insurance company

It did a lot of stuff not related to being an airline which was part of its problems.



They also owned various car dealerships in Melbourne & regional Victoria, and also had a bus-building operation.

They also ran the Australian operations of Diners Club - a lot of people only had a Diners card back in the day so they could build up Global Rewards points.

When Ansett was taken over from Sir Reg by News Ltd & TNT, it was because Rupert M wanted access to the Melbourne & Brisbane Network 10 TV stations that Ansett owned, to add to the Sydney Network 10 station that he owned, while Sir Peter wanted the transport-related assets...
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:03 pm

Not sure if this counts as "non airline business" since it's slightly related, but Ryanair owns the parking lot at Dusseldorf Weeze airport. No matter if you're flying Ryanair or not, if you park your car in Weeze your parking fee goes to Ryanair. At least, that's what I've always been told.
 
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Seabear
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:19 pm

Back in the day, Canadian Pacific Air Lines (later CP Air) was owned by the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, which also owned & operated hotels and steamships.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:27 am

For 12 years, JetBlue was the owner of LiveTV before selling it to Thales. JetBlue still has a joint venture with El Al called Cockpit Innovation.
 
T33a
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:23 pm

Ryanair rooms
Definition of 'airplane’
(eəʳpleɪn)
Word forms: airplanes
countable noun
An airplane is a vehicle with wings and one or more engines that enable it to fly through the air.
Synonyms: plane, aircraft, jet, aeroplane
REGIONAL NOTE:
in BRIT, use aeroplane
 
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foppishbum
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Re: Non airline businesses owned by airlines

Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:24 pm

EVA AIR parent company, the Evergreen Group, owns Evergreen Marine Corp. (containerized shipping co.) and Evergreen International Hotels. The other companies are aviation-related like EVA AIR, UNI AIR, Evergreen Aviation Technologies Corp. and Evergreen Air Services Corp.
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Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos