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NickolayAv
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Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:10 am

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 9431558144
This caught my attention, the airline is deciding the fate of the aircraft after the fatal incidents.
Are there any other cases where an incident occurred on a plane which resulted in one or more fatalities where the plane was later brought back into service?
If yes, did the airline do anything special?
NickolayAv
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
n471wn
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:24 am

There are many incidents where aircraft where fatalities occurred went back into service after repair. Delta and United to name a few.
 
Karlsands
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:24 am

 
lostsound
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:28 am

There are planes that have crashed and still went back into service.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:29 am

Karlsands wrote:

Ok, thanks. Is it known if the airline changed anything on the plane, marked it in any way to honor the event or no?
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
hoons90
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:31 am

The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:52 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Karlsands wrote:

Ok, thanks. Is it known if the airline changed anything on the plane, marked it in any way to honor the event or no?


I flew on N927DA back in November and didn’t notice any difference between it and any other DL MD-88.
 
alggag
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:57 am

WN put the plane that killed a boy on the ground in the MDW overrun back in service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest ... light_1248
 
727LOVER
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:09 am



I can't remember the flight # or route. But I do remember it was 1986. A bomb went off and sucked out 4 people. That pilot lived in my home town, and my mom met him.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:17 am

Airlines will often retire the flight numbers of flights that have crashed or had serious incidents as well.
 
haydenschool
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:22 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippin ... Flight_434

Another one where a bomb killed a passenger. It later was converted to a cargo plane and scrapped
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:32 am

jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


That makes no sense, take a train collision at a grade crossing with a car. If someone unfortunately passes from that they aren't going to remove the locomotive from service because of an accident.
 
jkd4855
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:33 am

One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families
 
Philippine747
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:35 am

PAL kept the aircraft involved in a D.B. Cooper-like incident in which the hijacker died until the GE-powered A330s were retired.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippin ... Flight_812
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT72 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752 (M) B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4
 
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:39 am

jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


Airlines are businesses and need to make money. IMHO putting it back into service is not disrespectful to the victims/families
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:49 am

TWA 847 hijacked out of Athens. 2 week ordeal. Navy diver Richard Stephen was killed by the hijackers and his body was thrown out the door to the tarmac.

I flew that 727 out of STL a couple of times and don’t think they ever changed the reg.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:01 am

jkd4855 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


That makes no sense, take a train collision at a grade crossing with a car. If someone unfortunately passes from that they aren't going to remove the locomotive from service because of an accident.


The general public would not be riding on that locomotive every day though. Imagine if someone had to sit in the same seat as a person that was killed in an aircraft accident. There are still other ways for an airline to make money besides commercial passenger service.


The general public doesn't even know what kind of aircraft they are flying on let alone the registration. Plus who the hell looks up a seat number of a deceased passenger?
 
jkd4855
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:02 am

ikolkyo wrote:
jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


That makes no sense, take a train collision at a grade crossing with a car. If someone unfortunately passes from that they aren't going to remove the locomotive from service because of an accident.


The general public would not be riding on that locomotive every day though. Imagine if someone had to sit in the same seat as a person that was killed in an aircraft accident. There are still other ways for an airline to make money besides commercial passenger service.
 
Kno
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:08 am

jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


Theres no rule book on that. As far as im concerned there is nothing disrespectful about keeping the plane in service and its a valuable asset so why not.
 
haydenschool
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:12 am

jkd4855 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


That makes no sense, take a train collision at a grade crossing with a car. If someone unfortunately passes from that they aren't going to remove the locomotive from service because of an accident.


The general public would not be riding on that locomotive every day though. Imagine if someone had to sit in the same seat as a person that was killed in an aircraft accident. There are still other ways for an airline to make money besides commercial passenger service.


That and I seriously doubt the general public pays attention and keeps track of the aircraft they are flying on. For example, to Aviation geeks, the Southwest plane is N772SW, the plane that had a mishap in which a passenger died. Meanwhile to the public, its just a plane that Southwest owns
 
jkd4855
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:22 am

haydenschool wrote:
jkd4855 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

That makes no sense, take a train collision at a grade crossing with a car. If someone unfortunately passes from that they aren't going to remove the locomotive from service because of an accident.


The general public would not be riding on that locomotive every day though. Imagine if someone had to sit in the same seat as a person that was killed in an aircraft accident. There are still other ways for an airline to make money besides commercial passenger service.


That and I seriously doubt the general public pays attention and keeps track of the aircraft they are flying on. For example, to Aviation geeks, the Southwest plane is N772SW, the plane that had a mishap in which a passenger died. Meanwhile to the public, its just a plane that Southwest owns


But do you think if the general public knew that that plane was in active service, they would still have the same attitude towards SW?
 
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rosecityspotter
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:28 am

The Southwest 737 that had that engine explode and the one woman died departed PAE today after getting fixed.
 
sandbender
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:52 am

Far more people drive on roads where there have been fatal accidents. Should those roads be permanently closed? What about hotel rooms people have died in? I understand the need to pay respects but there are practical limits.
 
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:54 am

alggag wrote:
WN put the plane that killed a boy on the ground in the MDW overrun back in service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest ... light_1248


And what about the one that made an emergency landing in PHL two months ago? Did it return to service or it was damaged beyond economical repair?
Ben Soriano
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:59 am

American 767 wrote:
alggag wrote:
WN put the plane that killed a boy on the ground in the MDW overrun back in service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest ... light_1248


And what about the one that made an emergency landing in PHL two months ago? Did it return to service or it was damaged beyond economical repair?


Will be back in service, departed PAE yesterday 6/7 for paint I'm assuming.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n772sw/

edit: Actually according to WN it is going for storage for whatever reason.
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 9431558144
 
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:19 am

TVNWZ wrote:
TWA 847 hijacked out of Athens. 2 week ordeal. Navy diver Richard Stephen was killed by the hijackers and his body was thrown out the door to the tarmac.

I flew that 727 out of STL a couple of times and don’t think they ever changed the reg.



I was thinking about that one too....but that aircraft did not have any massive structural damage. That aircraft actually flew TWA's last Boeing 727 flight.

The Navy diver's name was Robert Stethem
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:28 am

jkd4855 wrote:
haydenschool wrote:
jkd4855 wrote:

The general public would not be riding on that locomotive every day though. Imagine if someone had to sit in the same seat as a person that was killed in an aircraft accident. There are still other ways for an airline to make money besides commercial passenger service.


That and I seriously doubt the general public pays attention and keeps track of the aircraft they are flying on. For example, to Aviation geeks, the Southwest plane is N772SW, the plane that had a mishap in which a passenger died. Meanwhile to the public, its just a plane that Southwest owns


But do you think if the general public knew that that plane was in active service, they would still have the same attitude towards SW?


They can't just throw away an entire airplane because there was a fatality on board. Airlines can't afford to be wasteful like that. I don't believe the general public would be outraged or upset to know the aircraft will continue to go back in service, and I'm willing to bet many people expect that.
 
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rikkus67
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:44 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Flight_797 ...scroll down to the "Aftermath" paragraph.
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
Lootess
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:09 am

NYPECO wrote:
jkd4855 wrote:
haydenschool wrote:

That and I seriously doubt the general public pays attention and keeps track of the aircraft they are flying on. For example, to Aviation geeks, the Southwest plane is N772SW, the plane that had a mishap in which a passenger died. Meanwhile to the public, its just a plane that Southwest owns


But do you think if the general public knew that that plane was in active service, they would still have the same attitude towards SW?


They can't just throw away an entire airplane because there was a fatality on board. Airlines can't afford to be wasteful like that. I don't believe the general public would be outraged or upset to know the aircraft will continue to go back in service, and I'm willing to bet many people expect that.


It would be odd if they just changed the registration just a months after, immediately fix it, and put it back in the air. This isn't some scrappy airline with just a few jets.

That 737-700 is 17 years old, and of course WN is a high-cycle airline so it doesn't have a whole lot of time likely either.
 
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:10 am

jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


There are literally tens of thousands of cars on the road today that are reconstructed from salvaged portions of automobiles that were in fatal accidents. Insurance companies don’t care, neither do the people buying them.
If you are an American who drives an auto built by a foreign-owned company yet complains about your favorite airline buying Airbus, then you are nothing more than a whiny hypocrite.
 
brian415
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:55 am

jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families

That's among the most ridiculous things I've heard.

Are you suggesting that the aircraft be written off as a "hull loss"? If so, a publicly-traded airline would be asking for a shareholder lawsuit.

Or maybe, you are suggesting that the aircraft be sold to another carrier? Re-fitting the aircraft with your own interior (seats, lavatory, etc) and exterior can run anywhere between $3 and $10 million per aircraft!
 
Prost
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:59 am

When you google ghosts of Eastern Airlines 401 you sometimes wonder. I don’t believe in a paranormal activity but....
 
USAirKid
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:10 am

qf2220 wrote:
Airlines will often retire the flight numbers of flights that have crashed or had serious incidents as well.

jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


Airlines often will reregister the frame so that it has a new registration number. If you go digging through the databases you can find out that its the same plane with a new registration, but its yet another way that airlines manage the perception / pay respect to the incident.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:26 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Ok, thanks. Is it known if the airline changed anything on the plane, marked it in any way to honor the event or no?


I'm just trying to imagine the reaction of the next passenger when they see a newly installed plaque on their tray table with words to the effect "In memory of John Doe who sat here on 3rd December 1996 when a sharp-beaked Pterodactyl pierced the adjacent window and consequently sucked John through engine #2.".

Not so sure it would be a good idea.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:41 am

Virtual737 wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Ok, thanks. Is it known if the airline changed anything on the plane, marked it in any way to honor the event or no?


I'm just trying to imagine the reaction of the next passenger when they see a newly installed plaque on their tray table with words to the effect "In memory of John Doe who sat here on 3rd December 1996 when a sharp-beaked Pterodactyl pierced the adjacent window and consequently sucked John through engine #2.".

Not so sure it would be a good idea.


I just died reading that LOL
 
Prost
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:43 am

Virtual737 wrote:
I'm just trying to imagine the reaction of the next passenger when they see a newly installed plaque on their tray table with words to the effect "In memory of John Doe who sat here on 3rd December 1996 when a sharp-beaked Pterodactyl pierced the adjacent window and consequently sucked John through engine #2.".

Not so sure it would be a good idea.


You have a bright future in the industry.
 
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:51 am

jkd4855 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


That makes no sense, take a train collision at a grade crossing with a car. If someone unfortunately passes from that they aren't going to remove the locomotive from service because of an accident.


The general public would not be riding on that locomotive every day though. Imagine if someone had to sit in the same seat as a person that was killed in an aircraft accident. There are still other ways for an airline to make money besides commercial passenger service.


Passenger airlines like Southwest nearly exclusively make money from passenger service, that's what they do. Heck, even Columbine and the VT academic building that was the site of that shooting are still in use...I understand why it can seem morose to some and why as a passenger you may not want to know, but I'm not sure why someone wouldn't fly on WN simply because an accident airframe may be put back in service. As others have mentioned, plenty other planes have been.
 
JA786A
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:05 am

JA8966 went on flying for 15 years after it was hijacked in 1999 on ANA flight 61, when the hijacker killed the captain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Nippon_Airways_Flight_61
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:22 am

jkd4855 wrote:
One would think that if an accident involved fatalities, the airline would remove that aircraft from service out of respect for the victims and their families


Ummm, no. It doesn't happen and I wouldn't expect it to happen.

jkd4855 wrote:
But do you think if the general public knew that that plane was in active service, they would still have the same attitude towards SW?


Does it bother you? Why? Death is a part of life. We don't retire things just because that thing was somehow related to the death.

How many houses would be torn down? How many hospital rooms and nursing/assisted care rooms would remain vacant?

An aircraft is an asset and a resource. If it can be economically repaired after an accident that causes a death, it will be and it will be returned to service. And no, I can't imagine there would be some kind of commemorative decoration on the aircraft, because there are people that have an unhealthy view of death, and its role in life.
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:38 am

NickolayAv wrote:
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1004831789431558144
This caught my attention, the airline is deciding the fate of the aircraft after the fatal incidents.
Are there any other cases where an incident occurred on a plane which resulted in one or more fatalities where the plane was later brought back into service?
If yes, did the airline do anything special?
NickolayAv

United lost a N747-122 cargo door out of Hawaii where 3 people went down the #3 enine seats and all. the airplane went through pretty extensive repairs and returned to service 7 months later and flew for another 7 years without incident before the B747-422 replaced it.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:39 am

N656PA, the Pan Am 747-121 operating flight 73 the day of the Karachi hijacking in 1986, was returned to service with some very obviously patched bullet holes in the cabin interior.
 
CairnterriAIR
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:15 am

National Airlines DC-10 #N60NA....the aircraft which had an uncontained engine failure which broke a window and ejected a passenger...was repaired, returned to service and went on to fly for Pan Am and American.

The wings and many other parts from the Air Canada DC-9 that burned in Cincinnati, were grafted into another aircraft.

Salvageable parts from EA L-1011 were reused mostly for the construction of N318EA as well as spares for other planes in the fleet.
 
klm617
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:19 am

the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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Polot
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:51 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Karlsands wrote:

Ok, thanks. Is it known if the airline changed anything on the plane, marked it in any way to honor the event or no?

Airlines generally don’t want to draw attention to the fact that an incident/accident occurred on/with one of their planes and someone aboard died as a result, many people are already nervous enough about flying...
 
bennett123
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:02 pm

Iirc, there was a Philippine BAC111 that had a bomb go off in the toilet TWICE.

Brought back into service each time.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:31 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Ok, thanks. Is it known if the airline changed anything on the plane, marked it in any way to honor the event or no?


I'm just trying to imagine the reaction of the next passenger when they see a newly installed plaque on their tray table with words to the effect "In memory of John Doe who sat here on 3rd December 1996 when a sharp-beaked Pterodactyl pierced the adjacent window and consequently sucked John through engine #2.".

Not so sure it would be a good idea.

Lmao, great answer.
I meant more of, whether the airline maybe changed the registration of the plane or something like that.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:41 pm

At most I would expect the flight number to be retired and the reg changed as mentioned up thread. That would stop most people from making the connection and needlessly worrying themselves. Those of us with more knowledge and interest in the area can work around that easily but we aren't the people airlines would be trying to relax.

Beyond that people die. It's a super shitty but perfectly real part of living. I wouldn't expect airlines to retire otherwise perfectly safe aircraft simply because someone died. You don't demolish a house because someone happened to die there.
 
jkd4855
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:51 pm

everyone has presented some interesting viewpoints, and I do get why some airlines would put the plane back in service. This is just my personal opinion 1
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: Fatal Incident Where Plane Returned to Service

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:19 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1004831789431558144
This caught my attention, the airline is deciding the fate of the aircraft after the fatal incidents.
Are there any other cases where an incident occurred on a plane which resulted in one or more fatalities where the plane was later brought back into service?
If yes, did the airline do anything special?
NickolayAv


I don’t want to be disrespectful or insensitive, but is absolutely logic that if the aircraft can be returned to service safely, the airlines use the frame again.
Imagine that a couple dies on board of an A380 as a consequence of severe turbulence, or on board of a cruise ship during a trip to the Bahamas....are you really expecting the owners, who paid hundreds of millions of euros, will not use this assets again out of respect to the family?
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