deltatim
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Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 2:45 am

Why is it now, when I fly, that all the shades are drawn? Years ago, AirTran used to ask when we landed, that we close the shades in Florida so that the cabin stayed cool. Now, every time I fly, I can't see out! All the shades are closed, and no one really cares. I absolutely love to see outside the plane while I'm flying, but evidently that is no longer something people relish. When I worked for Delta in the 80s, we used to polish the windows so that everyone could see outside. What happened?
 
kakk80
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 3:23 am

I totally agree! What is wrong with the world that people don't want to look at the window. I get it if the bright sun is shining through, but to keep it closed during take off and landing absolutely drives me crazy when I'm not at the window and can't see anything. And I know some airlines require the shades to be raised on take off and landing, but I work for American, and we do not!! And nothing is worse than getting dirty looks from passengers and crew when I raise my shade just a little bit to see out when I'm lucky to have a window. I was flying over Alaska on the way to Seoul Korea and I raised my shade no more than a 3rd, and a flight attendant quickly told me to lower my shade. And it was midday and the scenery was absolutely beautiful!
Last edited by kakk80 on Sun May 13, 2018 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
crownvic
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 3:25 am

It's quite disappointing, isn't it? People are mostly so out of touch with what goes on beyond their smart phones today, they just do not seem to care. It has gotten to the point where flight crews don't even bother telling passengers to raise their shades for take off and landing. Personally, I think that is a huge safety concern, but apparently to today's airlines/FAA, it is not. I am equally as frustrated as you are, but it appears we are the minority now.
 
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Ytraveller
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 3:28 am

First world problem perhaps, but I know what you mean. I recall pax keeping the windows shut during take off! Quite irritating when you're sitting in the aisle seat and just want to glance outside. I mean, do you really want to sleep through take off, one of the most exciting parts of the flight?

I have noticed on some non-US airlines that FA's ask pax to open their window shades for takeoff and landing. I always love hearing that announcement. I believe this is requested in case there is an emergency during takeoff/landing and FA's should be able to see what's going on?
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 3:50 am

I've heard stories on this forum of people flying on a 787, and the windows are automatically dimmed during takeoff/landing and passengers can't control it at all. I don't see the point of having windows if you can't even use them.
 
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monomojo
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 4:11 am

FAs will request that pax close the shades (or just override the dimmers for the entire cabin on the 787) during the middle of long-haul flights so that people can sleep and be rested / less jet-lagged when they arrive. They fuss at you for opening the shades because at 40,000 feet, and especially on the sunlit side of the aircraft with a high solid overcast the light that comes through the window can be extremely bright, even if the shade is only fractionally open, and it can be extremely annoying to other people nearby because their vision will have been dark adapted and is very sensitive to light. On the 787, it's not so much of an issue to have the dimmer locked to its darkest setting during the day, because you can still see through it such that it looks like a full moon night outside. I've never been on a 787 where they've locked the dimmers during takeoff and landing though.
Last edited by monomojo on Sun May 13, 2018 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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stl07
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 4:11 am

NYPECO wrote:
I've heard stories on this forum of people flying on a 787, and the windows are automatically dimmed during takeoff/landing and passengers can't control it at all. I don't see the point of having windows if you can't even use them.

I was on RJ once and I think the FA was having a little fun dimming and undimming the windows haha. I guess she wanted everyone to see we were gone from new york and in the desert finally then realized there was sun. I do recall being able to cancel or at least minimize dimmings and brightening though
 
Jshank83
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 4:18 am

Vegas in the summer they usually say to close the windows also. I agree that I like having them open, but I like an aisle seat more.
 
HALFA
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 4:26 am

Hawaiian Airlines is one of the few US Carriers that require all window shades be raised for taxi, takeoff and landing.
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
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fraspotter
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 5:00 am

I've seen it several times where FAs actually ask people to keep them open for landing and takeoff. From what I took from it is that they want to have clear view of what's going on outside in case of emergency. That and it'll keep people's eyes adjusted to the outside light level in case they have to evacuate. Once you're in the air and cruising then close the shades if you want but I can definitely see why a lot of airlines require them to be open during certain phases of flight.
"Taking off is optional. It’s landing that’s mandatory."
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 5:44 am

This is a funny question since, every few years or so, companies like Airbus release rendering of "the airliner of the future", and more often than not, it's something like an all-glass transparent fuselage. And everytime, it gets me thinking, the first problem with such designs is they'll either have to carry lots of curtains or apply a tinting system to the whole thing like for the windows on the Dreamliner.
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c933103
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 6:12 am

globetrotter94 wrote:
This is a funny question since, every few years or so, companies like Airbus release rendering of "the airliner of the future", and more often than not, it's something like an all-glass transparent fuselage. And everytime, it gets me thinking, the first problem with such designs is they'll either have to carry lots of curtains or apply a tinting system to the whole thing like for the windows on the Dreamliner.

Many of those rendering in recent years are actually windowless and replace window with screen that cover the entire cabin interior. So they can just dim the display at the night.
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 6:20 am

I've never experienced an issue with being told to lower (or keep lowered) my window shade on any Delta or Sun Country flight that I have been on. Even on my most recent flight in December 2017, when I boarded, all window shades were up. I enjoy getting a window seat and being able to look out and view the world passing below me, land or water. I still get a big kick out of seeing another jet passing nearby, so close that it can be sometimes identified by its livery. Like some others mentioned, take off and landing are really the best times when I want to be looking out my window.....it's just something that never gets old for me. While in flight, I tend to close my shade if sunlight is directly coming in and warming things up or if I want to nap or watch something on the IFE or on my tablet. My partner and I switch off for who gets the window seat, outbound and inbound, and we both have the same habits so it's never been a problem for us. It's been requested a few times on flights to the Caribbean, Mexico, Las Vegas and Texas to have passengers lower them after landing and taxiing to the gate so that it stays cool on board while the plane is being cleaned and serviced.
 
Blerg
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 7:09 am

SLC is one of those airports where you always board with the shades down. However, I think most passengers don't know they can raise them as there is no announcement by the crew. Personally, I don't care and I raise mine the moment I am in my seat.
Also, there is a new trend to have the shades lowered right after dinner on transatlantic flights. I think it's the crew being lazy and trying to get passengers to sleep so the cabin is quieter.
 
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jsnww81
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 7:23 am

kakk80 wrote:
I was flying over Alaska on the way to Seoul Korea and I raised my shade no more than a 3rd, and a flight attendant quickly told me to lower my shade. And it was midday and the scenery was absolutely beautiful!


US-Asia flights are the absolute worst for this. Almost all of the flights operate during daylight hours, and yet you're forced to sit in total darkness for 9-10 hours. I typically keep my shade about 1/3 open the entire flight. Scenery is one reason, sure, but there's also the idea of trying to keep my circadian rhythm intact. Most flights to Asia from my home city (LAX) leave mid-morning or around lunchtime. I don't WANT to go sleep at noon - I'd rather stay awake and arrive tired in Tokyo or Beijing around 5-6pm ready to head for my hotel and bed.

I have to brace myself for multiple visits from flight attendants (who, at least on US carriers, are typically crabby to begin with) demanding I put it down. I typically tell them I have claustrophobia and that it helps me to be able to see a crack of daylight. That usually does the trick, as the crew aren't willing to risk trouble over denying a medical condition.

The 787 is a godsend - the crew usually dim the windows as fast as possible so everyone sleeps and they can hide in the galleys reading or gossiping, but at least you can see a bit outside.
 
L0VE2FLY
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 7:45 am

There's no shortage of stupid folks in the world, the last thing I want to do is use the IFE while overflying a beautiful/interesting landscape.

NYPECO wrote:
I've heard stories on this forum of people flying on a 787, and the windows are automatically dimmed during takeoff/landing and passengers can't control it at all. I don't see the point of having windows if you can't even use them.


That's my only pet peeve about the 787, in my opinion Boeing ruined a great airliner by adding the dimming windows and making it possible for the crew to override the pax and dim the windows whenever they want. What's the point of PAYING for your preferred window seat when you have zero control over it?! :banghead: I just hope future Boeing aircraft won't have the e-tint windows. :crossfingers:
 
Bealine251
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 8:42 am

I would find it very disappointing having to have the Shades/blinds down. I admit each time I've flown it's been with a UK based Airline but they always announce that the Blinds must be fully open during takeoff and landing. I've always thought it was in the event of an emergency so not only the crew can see out it also allows emergency services can see in. Interesting how different Authorities/Ailines have different regulations.
 
Bealine251
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 8:45 am

I would find it very disappointing having to have the Shades/blinds down. I admit each time I've flown it's been with a UK based Airline but they always announce that the Blinds must be fully open during takeoff and landing. I've always thought it was in the event of an emergency so not only the crew can see out it also allows emergency services can see in. Interesting how different Authorities/Ailines have different regulations.
 
Bavd
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 8:51 am

This is the reason i wish more aircraft would be fitted with good quality cameras so you can see outside no matter where you are seated via your inflight entertainment system.
Also i presume that air travel is getting on par with a bus ride, price wise and drawing the corresponding " i don't give a rat's ass public" who would rather sleep trough the entire flight. Pitty.
 
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OA940
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 8:51 am

I've actually never had that. I have no clue as to why they'd do it as well. Quite the contrary on Aegean actually. I wanted to close my shade on approach to ATH (home airport, flown there about 30 times from all approaches, and in the middle of August Greece isn't ideal in terms of sun) and the FA told me to open it as soon as I closed it. I doubt they care if the cabin is warm. I heard once that windows are kept open so that in case of emergency pax are more aware, which also applied to the IFE on long-hauls but idk how true that is. Every airline has different regulations I guess.
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globetrotter94
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 8:52 am

L0VE2FLY wrote:
There's no shortage of stupid folks in the world, the last thing I want to do is use the IFE while overflying a beautiful/interesting landscape.

NYPECO wrote:
I've heard stories on this forum of people flying on a 787, and the windows are automatically dimmed during takeoff/landing and passengers can't control it at all. I don't see the point of having windows if you can't even use them.


That's my only pet peeve about the 787, in my opinion Boeing ruined a great airliner by adding the dimming windows and making it possible for the crew to override the pax and dim the windows whenever they want. What's the point of PAYING for your preferred window seat when you have zero control over it?! :banghead: I just hope future Boeing aircraft won't have the e-tint windows. :crossfingers:


Apart from the dimmed windows, I also find the constant whine of the 787 quite annoying--even more so than louder overall noise on older jets.

Well, at least as far as windows go, at least Airbus didn't carry on that dumb idea into the A350 (at least I don't think they have yet?)
6E, 9W, AF, AI, B6, BA, BI, CA, DN, IC, JL, KL, KU, NH, QR, SQ, TG, TK*, UA, VS
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 9:18 am

kakk80 wrote:
And I know some airlines require the shades to be raised on take off and landing, but I work for American, and we do not!!

crownvic wrote:
It has gotten to the point where flight crews don't even bother telling passengers to raise their shades for take off and landing. Personally, I think that is a huge safety concern, but apparently to today's airlines/FAA, it is not.

Ytraveller wrote:
I have noticed on some non-US airlines that FA's [sic] ask pax to open their window shades for takeoff and landing

fraspotter wrote:
I've seen it several times where FAs actually ask people to keep them open for landing and takeoff.


The FAA is pretty much the only major aviation regulator in the world that doesn't require the passenger window blinds be open for taxi, take-off, and landing. The EU agencies, CASA in Australia, etc etc, all do, and for the reasons mentioned by many of these posters - it saves time in assessing conditions outside the aircraft, and helps passengers have their eyes accustomed to light levels outside. Similarly it's standard procedure for many carriers to extinguish pretty much all cabin lighting during those phases of flight.

NYPECO wrote:
I've heard stories on this forum of people flying on a 787, and the windows are automatically dimmed during takeoff/landing and passengers can't control it at all. I don't see the point of having windows if you can't even use them.


To the best of my knowledge no window dimming is conducted automatically on the 787 - the windows are either under passenger control or cabin-crew control. If the dimming settings are changing without passenger input it is the FAs doing it, and if the dimming controls then don't respond to passenger input it is the FAs who have disabled them.
 
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jsnww81
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 4:09 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
The FAA is pretty much the only major aviation regulator in the world that doesn't require the passenger window blinds be open for taxi, take-off, and landing. The EU agencies, CASA in Australia, etc etc, all do, and for the reasons mentioned by many of these posters - it saves time in assessing conditions outside the aircraft, and helps passengers have their eyes accustomed to light levels outside. Similarly it's standard procedure for many carriers to extinguish pretty much all cabin lighting during those phases of flight.


I find it fascinating that the US, with our obsessive focus on safety, doesn't seem to care if shades are down during critical phases of flight. Wouldn't you want passengers to have full visual awareness of what's happening during those times? Instead you have half the shades drawn on board at any given point in time.

I guess it's OK, because unlike the rest of the world, our FAs are there "primarily for our safety." Hopefully they're using x-ray vision to assess conditions through all of the lowered window shades.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 4:57 pm

XAM2175 wrote:

To the best of my knowledge no window dimming is conducted automatically on the 787 - the windows are either under passenger control or cabin-crew control. If the dimming settings are changing without passenger input it is the FAs doing it, and if the dimming controls then don't respond to passenger input it is the FAs who have disabled them.


That's correct, the crew controls the window dimming which is what I meant to say.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 8:40 pm

kakk80 wrote:
I was flying over Alaska on the way to Seoul Korea and I raised my shade no more than a 3rd, and a flight attendant quickly told me to lower my shade. And it was midday and the scenery was absolutely beautiful!

Very sad and completely unnecessary behaviour of the crew. I have had to endure this myself a few times unfortunately. Many years ago I was forced to close the shade by four (!) Air France crew members shouting that I had to obey their orders. While flying over Greenland! Extremely annoying. What airline were you on?

On my recent KLM flight from Amsterdam to San Francisco I noticed the further you get to the front of the cabin the more window shades are closed. The purser told me she didn't understand why people prefer to sit so many hours in the dark looking at a screen while outside the most impressive landscapes glide by.

I left my shade open all the way to San Francisco and back to Amsterdam also. Nobody had a problem with it. Many passengers enjoyed the views of frozen Canada and the high Arctic and that's the way it should be. No matter how often you fly, just let people who wish to look out a window do so. Do you want to sleep? Use an eye mask. Do you want to watch a movie? Set your screen brighter.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Shades drawn

Sun May 13, 2018 8:51 pm

L0VE2FLY wrote:
That's my only pet peeve about the 787, in my opinion Boeing ruined a great airliner by adding the dimming windows and making it possible for the crew to override the pax and dim the windows whenever they want.

:checkmark:

I stay away from the 787, because of the crew override option. I have been a passenger on the 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767 and 777, but the dimmable windows are discouraging me to try the 787.

I have flown on all Airbus models: the A300, A310, A318, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340, A350 and A380. When the A350 came on the market, I was quick to book a flight on it. I still haven't flown on the 787.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Shades drawn

Mon May 14, 2018 2:53 am

I just flew TPE-SFO on BR28. This flight leaves TPE at 11:30 PM local and arrives at SFO at around 7:45 PM local. So that means you fly through a day and while the sun was still up when we landed, it set by the time we left the airport (8:10PM). On this route at this time of year, the sun rises about four hours into the flight. The crew asked us to keep our shades down, and I slept like a log. After waking, about two hours out of SFO, I cracked my window shade open only to be greeted with the searing light of high altitude, which flooded the entire cabin with a brilliant flash before I could snap it shut again.

I like the 787 better. The electrochromatic shade still allows you to see outside, even at full dimness. It also keeps the interior of the window cooler because the light is blocked at the aircraft skin rather that an interior structure.
-Doc Lightning-

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cranberrysaus
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Re: Shades drawn

Tue May 15, 2018 2:49 pm

crownvic wrote:
It's quite disappointing, isn't it? People are mostly so out of touch with what goes on beyond their smart phones today, they just do not seem to care. It has gotten to the point where flight crews don't even bother telling passengers to raise their shades for take off and landing. Personally, I think that is a huge safety concern, but apparently to today's airlines/FAA, it is not. I am equally as frustrated as you are, but it appears we are the minority now.


Or some people just don't care - which is fine. It's always worth at least asking if they can open it, right?

If I want to be in control of the window, I get a window seat.
 
stlgph
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Re: Shades drawn

Tue May 15, 2018 2:54 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
kakk80 wrote:
I was flying over Alaska on the way to Seoul Korea and I raised my shade no more than a 3rd, and a flight attendant quickly told me to lower my shade. And it was midday and the scenery was absolutely beautiful!


US-Asia flights are the absolute worst for this. Almost all of the flights operate during daylight hours, and yet you're forced to sit in total darkness for 9-10 hours. I typically keep my shade about 1/3 open the entire flight. Scenery is one reason, sure, but there's also the idea of trying to keep my circadian rhythm intact. Most flights to Asia from my home city (LAX) leave mid-morning or around lunchtime. I don't WANT to go sleep at noon - I'd rather stay awake and arrive tired in Tokyo or Beijing around 5-6pm ready to head for my hotel and bed.

I have to brace myself for multiple visits from flight attendants (who, at least on US carriers, are typically crabby to begin with) demanding I put it down. I typically tell them I have claustrophobia and that it helps me to be able to see a crack of daylight. That usually does the trick, as the crew aren't willing to risk trouble over denying a medical condition.

The 787 is a godsend - the crew usually dim the windows as fast as possible so everyone sleeps and they can hide in the galleys reading or gossiping, but at least you can see a bit outside.


I just flat out use the phrase "kiss my ass."

Works every time.
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alggag
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Re: Shades drawn

Tue May 15, 2018 7:03 pm

DocLightning wrote:
I just flew TPE-SFO on BR28. This flight leaves TPE at 11:30 PM local and arrives at SFO at around 7:45 PM local. So that means you fly through a day and while the sun was still up when we landed, it set by the time we left the airport (8:10PM). On this route at this time of year, the sun rises about four hours into the flight. The crew asked us to keep our shades down, and I slept like a log. After waking, about two hours out of SFO, I cracked my window shade open only to be greeted with the searing light of high altitude, which flooded the entire cabin with a brilliant flash before I could snap it shut again.

I like the 787 better. The electrochromatic shade still allows you to see outside, even at full dimness. It also keeps the interior of the window cooler because the light is blocked at the aircraft skin rather that an interior structure.


The more I fly the more I find myself leaning toward keeping the shades closed to try to get some sleep. I tend to fly TATL or TPAC about once every 1.5 months and while I will never grow tired of looking at the scenery the practical matter of getting some rest far out weighs the view. What makes matters even worse is that even one shade that is half open can light up the entire cabin and disturb everyone who is trying to sleep. Even with eye shades on I occasionally find myself waking up when someone opens a shade as I can notice the sudden light that comes in on the edges of my eye shades.

I love the 787's electronic shades as they still allow you to look out without being "that guy" that bothers everybody else.
 
global2
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Re: Shades drawn

Wed May 16, 2018 6:08 pm

Who remembers when it used to be that that shades generally stayed open until the flight attendant announced that they were about to show the movie and request that everyone close the shades? Then they'd pull down the movie screen at the front of the cabin. :old:

It's a shame today really. I've seen breathtaking views of the Grand Canyon, the Alps, Mt. Fuji, spectacular sunsets, other jets zooming by, and I have fun just trying to figure out our location based on the terrain below. I will say that I usually still see lots of people gawking at the views of Manhattan when approaching LGA.
I usually am able to get away with keeping the window open just a tiny bit, but for takeoff and landings, I open them all the way. I want to see the how far we are from the ground when landing.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Shades drawn

Fri May 18, 2018 2:36 am

JL SYD-BOS-SYD is mostly daylight for 3 of the 4 sectors and is all 789 these days. I've never been asked to completely dim my window, although tend to select seats on the northern side of the aircraft.
 
L0VE2FLY
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Re: Shades drawn

Fri May 18, 2018 9:14 pm

globetrotter94 wrote:
Well, at least as far as windows go, at least Airbus didn't carry on that dumb idea into the A350 (at least I don't think they have yet?)


:checkmark: I hope we'll never find the e-tint windows on any future airliner, the fact that the 777X won't have them is a great sign.


MartijnNL wrote:
L0VE2FLY wrote:
That's my only pet peeve about the 787, in my opinion Boeing ruined a great airliner by adding the dimming windows and making it possible for the crew to override the pax and dim the windows whenever they want.

:checkmark:

I stay away from the 787, because of the crew override option. I have been a passenger on the 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767 and 777, but the dimmable windows are discouraging me to try the 787.

I have flown on all Airbus models: the A300, A310, A318, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340, A350 and A380. When the A350 came on the market, I was quick to book a flight on it. I still haven't flown on the 787.


Good for you. I've successfully avoided the 787 so far, but given its popularity it'll be very inconvenient and expensive to avoid in the future.


DocLightning wrote:
I like the 787 better. The electrochromatic shade still allows you to see outside, even at full dimness. It also keeps the interior of the window cooler because the light is blocked at the aircraft skin rather that an interior structure.


The dimming windows would've been a good feature ONLY if the control was in the hands of pax, we're not little kids at a daycare center!


Kent350787 wrote:
JL SYD-BOS-SYD is mostly daylight for 3 of the 4 sectors and is all 789 these days. I've never been asked to completely dim my window, although tend to select seats on the northern side of the aircraft.


I know that most airlines dim all the windows even on westbound flights, I'm not sure about JL though.

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