parisien
Topic Author
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am

Received info that SQ335 CDG-SIN is to depart (and thus arrives in SIN) late by more than 5 hours today 16 april (reason : late arrival of inbound aircraft). This means that I'll miss my connection bought separately on a budget carrier (originally with a 5 hour window to connect) and will have to buy another ticket. Has anyone ever claimed compensation using EU - Air passanger rights for late flights? How does that work in general (from your personal experience)? Cheers.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8131
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:23 am

parisien wrote:
Received info that SQ335 CDG-SIN is to depart (and thus arrives in SIN) late by more than 5 hours today 16 april (reason : late arrival of inbound aircraft). This means that I'll miss my connection bought separately on a budget carrier (originally with a 5 hour window to connect) and will have to buy another ticket. Has anyone ever claimed compensation using EU - Air passanger rights for late flights? How does that work in general (from your personal experience)? Cheers.


600 EUR for the delay plus your new onward flight.If you don´t want hassle with the airline, there are several services like https://www.flightright.com/ to use. They do however charge 25% of your compensation plus VAT (~30%).

If you want to do it yourself, ask the airline for their procedure (they, by law, have to tell you), if you don´t get a reply after 6 weeks, you can complain using this form: https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/tr ... orm_en.pdf

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
parisien
Topic Author
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Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:14 am

Thank you Thomas for your clear and fast response. I will first do it myself and see (given SQ's reputation, I hope they will be responsive). Cheers.
 
debonair
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:49 am

tommy1808 wrote:
600 EUR for the delay plus your new onward flight.


NO!! As the onward flight was purchased separately, SQ is NOT responsible!
 
anstar
Posts: 3085
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Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:28 am

Also if the delay was due to something outside of SQ's control then they are not obliged to pay any compensation. As an example if it was a weather delay.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8131
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:30 am

debonair wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
600 EUR for the delay plus your new onward flight.


NO!! As the onward flight was purchased separately, SQ is NOT responsible!


The arrival time is part of the transportation contract, they have to cough up the money for any damage incurred up to 4150 SZR, ~4900 EUR.

Airlines already had to reimburse costs for missed connections over a meager 70 minutes delay on a flight TXL-MAD-MIA. (e.g. AG Wedding, Az.: 16 C 167/10 from 2011, 65 min delay, Airline had to reimburse over 4000 EUR for a missed Cruise Ship).

If it was one ticket, SQ wouldn´t need to reimburse expanses, but just get him to the destination.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
parisien
Topic Author
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:33 am

OK, thanks for the info. I checked changi departures at the time the airplane (arriving late in Paris as SQ 336) was supposed to depart...all the other flights seemed to be on time. Aside from wheather, what other circumstance would be outside of SQ's control ?
 
tommy1808
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:47 am

parisien wrote:
OK, thanks for the info. I checked changi departures at the time the airplane (arriving late in Paris as SQ 336) was supposed to depart...all the other flights seemed to be on time. Aside from wheather, what other circumstance would be outside of SQ's control ?


The reason has to be unpredictable, unavoidable and external. What that means ia still an ongoing process, but even weather doesn't automatically count. The airline would need to explain which external (!) Factor prevented them from taking the forecast into account and plan accordingly.
If it is late arrival from SIN, the airline doesn't have an excuse, unless they can show there where lots of delayed departure due to weather and no reasonablew planning would have helped.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1766
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:41 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
debonair wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
600 EUR for the delay plus your new onward flight.


NO!! As the onward flight was purchased separately, SQ is NOT responsible!


The arrival time is part of the transportation contract, they have to cough up the money for any damage incurred up to 4150 SZR, ~4900 EUR.

Airlines already had to reimburse costs for missed connections over a meager 70 minutes delay on a flight TXL-MAD-MIA. (e.g. AG Wedding, Az.: 16 C 167/10 from 2011, 65 min delay, Airline had to reimburse over 4000 EUR for a missed Cruise Ship).

If it was one ticket, SQ wouldn´t need to reimburse expanses, but just get him to the destination.

best regards
Thomas


Do you have a link for the missed cruise ship thing?

I really doubt that they are required to cover a missed flight that was purchased separately. The EU guide states that they are only required to compensate for missed connecting flights, and a separate ticket doesn't count as a connection.

If you miss a connecting flight travelling within the EU or outside the EU on a flight originating from an EU country, you should be entitled to compensation, if you arrive at your final destination with a delay of more than 3 hours. It is not relevant if the carrier operating the connecting flights is an EU or non-EU carrier.


The UK CAA states following, also based on the EU rules:

Are you on a through ticket?

Your airline is only required to provide compensation if you are booked on a through ticket. This means you have a single ticket and one reservation reference for your entire journey. The cause of you missing your connection must also be within the airline’s control.

If you or your travel agent booked the flights separately, then you are not covered by these rules.


https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Resolv ... onnection/

As for weather and other unpredictable issues, the EU has already ruled that it only counts on the initial flight of the occurrence. They had plenty of time to sort out alternative arrangements. If it was delayed out of Singapore for an unpredictable issue, then it only counts on the Singapore-Europe leg. They can't apply it on the Europe-Singapore leg.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:02 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Do you have a link for the missed cruise ship thing?


German court ruling: AG Wedding, Az.: 16 C 167/10 Maybe you can make enough sense of it with google Translate or DeepL: https://www.ra-kotz.de/kreuzfahrt_verpa ... aetung.htm

I really doubt that they are required to cover a missed flight that was purchased separately. The EU guide states that they are only required to compensate for missed connecting flights, and a separate ticket doesn't count as a connection.


Contract Law applies independent from EU compensations, and when applicable, on top of those flat rate compensations. In that court case, Cruise and Flight where booked independently.

In cases like this Art. 19 of the Montreal Convention is the basis for the appropriate contract law:

Montreal Convention Art. 19 wrote:
Delay
The carrier is liable for damage occasioned by delay
in the carriage by air of passengers, baggage or cargo.
Nevertheless, the carrier shall not be liable for damage
occasioned by delay if it proves that it and its servants and
agents took all measures that could reasonably be required
to avoid the damage or that it was impossible for it or them
to take such measures.


Airlines try to make the impression that you only get the flat rate compensation and that is supposed to cover costs, but in fact those Euros are just penalty payment.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
VSMUT
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Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:10 pm

tommy1808 wrote:


That part is probably true, but getting the compensation will be somewhat harder than the EU compensation scheme. Unless the airline pays voluntarily for the missed flight under the Montreal convention (doubtful), you would have to go to the court.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:21 pm

VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:


That part is probably true, but getting the compensation will be somewhat harder than the EU compensation scheme. Unless the airline pays voluntarily for the missed flight under the Montreal convention (doubtful), you would have to go to the court.


That is what Flightright and such services are good at, they do the court stuff for you and they have a myriad of court rulings to push that through. As they are commission based, they are happy to fight for more :)

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
parisien
Topic Author
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:59 am

Hi Thomas and all, so I made it to SIN and had almost a two hour window (meaning less than one hour from the arrival time to the check in time limit) for my Air Asia flight (bought new tickets to BDO) which I also made although huffing and puffing and all worn out (but relieved) when I got to T4 Changi. I will try to file a claim (i.e., sending a letter to SQ and see from there...that seems to be the first step indicated on diverse web sites?).
The SQ flight was wonderful as always, they were apologetic and when we arrived in SIN we received a gift box containing a nice SQ wallet/passport holder. When I asked at check-in in Paris about EU pax air rights I was given a certificate of delay and that was it (Then a SQ representative said to send my missed Air Asia tickets to Costumer Service in Singapore or Paris). Reason given for the delay was late arrival of inbound aircraft (and later on I learned that the plane originally scheduled had technical problems and they had to swap it with another aircraft...we ended up flying 9V-SKL).
I don't usually buy seperate tickets to travel as I think that is just too stressful at times (unless you have an overnight), but I was so confident that SQ would never be late :-) ...
Thanks again!
 
parisien
Topic Author
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:28 am

Just received more information...apparently, the aircraft originally planned to be used for SQ336 (that would turn around as SQ335 back to SIN from CDG) was struck by lightning, necessitating a change of aircraft that at that time was still operating another flight...hence the delay for SQ336 and subsequently SQ335.
Is this a situation under the control of the carrier or ???? On the aircraft before departing CDG we were told just 'technical faults' necessitating a change of aircraft, by the way.
 
SGAviation
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:14 pm

SQ usually doesn't have much slack in their A380 fleet. So even if 1 A380 goes tech, it can have an adverse effect on the rest of the operations. Usually it is SQ346 to ZRH that gets significantly delayed since it is their last A380 departure of the night. They would end up having to wait for the first available aircraft from the morning bank of arrivals to utilize.

They also have 2 A380 configurations (excluding the newest 6R/78J/44S/343Y configuration):
12R/60J/36S/333Y
12R/86J/36S/245Y (only Business Class on upper deck)

So depending on the load, they may not be able to easily interchange between different configured A380s. SQ336/335 utilizes the high JCLS configuration most of the time.

9V-SKC and 9V-SKD have been withdrawn from their fleet.
9V-SKM has not flown for about 3 months.
9V-SKU/V/W only fly to certain destinations (SYD/LHR/HKG for now)
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1766
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Late SQ flight today, EU rights compensation?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:36 pm

parisien wrote:
Just received more information...apparently, the aircraft originally planned to be used for SQ336 (that would turn around as SQ335 back to SIN from CDG) was struck by lightning, necessitating a change of aircraft that at that time was still operating another flight...hence the delay for SQ336 and subsequently SQ335.
Is this a situation under the control of the carrier or ???? On the aircraft before departing CDG we were told just 'technical faults' necessitating a change of aircraft, by the way.


Yes, this is a situation that is under the control of the carrier. Only SQ336 counted as a situation that was not under control of the airline. They can't cascade the extraordinary circumstances to further flights. It's the responsibility of the airline to have sufficient equipment available to cover for this.

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