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I saw this on Yahoo today and couldn't believe that nothing was done in flight to calm this kid down. If that had been me (back in the 60s) my dad would've given me a swift slap to the face to shut me up. Appears the young boy screamed non-stop throughout the 8-hour flight.
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/passengers-r ... 21452.html

Opinions ?

Kid has behavioral problems, it happens! Giving the kid a slap is not exactly helpful!

This happened six months ago. Would suck to be on the flight, but not sure it is really worthy of much discussion. Part of flying with the public is you are sometimes going to have passengers that make a flight suck. Hopefully those instances are few and far between.

We can berate the state of parenting vs kids with emotional problems all we want, won't change what happened on this flight and won't prevent this from happening on a future flight.

I have been stuck on a flight sitting next to a crying kid for 2 out of 3 hours of a flight...... it was HORRIBLE. I was also hung over (headache), wifi didnt work, and hungover, didnt want to listen to music.

tonyban and tonystan. Hey, that rhymes!

A kid with behavioral problems needs a correction. If all the nice ways fail, then yes, he needs a little pain to reinforce the lesson. That behavior is simply unacceptable and that mother is a bad parent. Period. She IS the reason he has behavior problems.

SteveXC500 wrote:

Probably worse for the parents than the passengers.

Sometimes I find that hard to believe. In many cases, parents seem indifferent to the kid crying or acting up.

"Behavioral problems" ... i.e. the parents have never done anything to discipline him for his actions.


I'll just say it. They can be thankful I wasn't on board.

Probably worse for the parents than the passengers.

This ‘behavioural issues’ is just a modern fall back for poor and weak parenting, a society that looks for problems that aren’t there and people who seek as many oppression points as possible just like the allergy brigade.

This is nothing a good slap or two wouldn’t solve but that’s not the modern way. I doubt very much you’d see this 20-30 years ago. Another shocking display of the breakdown in society.

I never board anything that moves or enter a hotel without a stash of earplugs. My crewbag is usually stuffed with them.

The sad thing is that once you get the doctors involved it makes later life much more difficult when they come to applying for jobs that require a medical such as becoming a pilot. Accept there’s a problem, own it and act accordingly.

I partly pity the parents although my sympathy is limited as once he hits puberty and he’s taller and stronger than the parents and equally as out of control then life will get very ugly for them very quickly.

"Mom, how bad was I as a kid?" "Here honey, read this news article."

Maybe the kid had sore ears or something ? Did anyone bother to investigate or was it easier to blame the kid ? And yes ear plugs can make a big difference. You can get foam based ear pellets that are no bigger than a pair of suppository tablets, which is good really, because if they don't work you can always shove them up your....

Parents aren’t allowed to hit their kids anymore, so you have to take a lot of preventive measures, as they outline in the article. Still a terrible nuisance. They should make parents with kids sit in a predefined “kids’ zone” so the others don’t have to put up with all the screaming.

usdcaguy wrote:

Parents aren’t allowed to hit their kids anymore, so you have to take a lot of preventive measures, as they outline in the article. Still a terrible nuisance. They should make parents with kids sit in a predefined “kids’ zone” so the others don’t have to put up with all the screaming.

A340 with downstairs toilet blocks would be an ideal holding pen for them. The noise is muffled from the main cabin yet still ensures that people don’t waste time in the toilets and so queuing is kept to a minimum.

tonystan wrote:

Kid has behavioral problems, it happens! Giving the kid a slap is not exactly helpful!

I do not agree with that. Upon birth everyone has behavioral problems, simply because the way we're supposed to behave isn't naturally in us. We have to learn as we grow up and learning is done by correcting bad behaviour. In this case the bad behaviour was never corrected and therefor remained. A 3-year old can perfectly be tought not to scream, but nobody ever tought him. I agree with the people who blame it on the parents, they're the ones that were supposed to correct this behaviour. They're the ones that failed.

JannEejit wrote:

Maybe the kid had sore ears or something ? Did anyone bother to investigate or was it easier to blame the kid ? And yes ear plugs can make a big difference. You can get foam based ear pellets that are no bigger than a pair of suppository tablets, which is good really, because if they don't work you can always shove them up your....

From my experience screamers usually kick off on boarding and taxi out as they don’t want to sit down for takeoff and for landing as once the descent starts their ears start to hurt. Usually once the parents put an iPad on with Shrek blaring out at full volume with no headphones (thus disturbing the cabin) the screamers usually pipe down.

It’s very rare for a screamer to continue throughout the flight.

I've been fortunate enough that I have not truly experience a screaming/crying child on long-haul flights although I can understand how frustrating and infuriating flying for hours with a screaming/crying child. I am glad that the incident did not turn into an even worse ordeal for everyone involved (e.g., diversion, escalating violent behaviors, etc.)

I have been a ABA Behavior Consultant working with children with behavioral problems and with diagnoses like Down Syndrome, Autism, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, etc. for the better part of my career. I've seen many helpless parents who don't have the knowledge/skills to deal with their children's behavior problems so parent-training is a big part of the therapy program. There are good days and bad days. On a bad day, it seems as if the only option is to use restraining tools. Of course, that is definitely not an option unless the child is harming him/herself or others. I do have sympathy towards the parents of the child mentioned in the article even though I don't have the full details.

I normally advise parents to let me know whether they want to include "air travel" programs in the children's therapy sessions. Some tools such as indirect systemic desensitization, visualization, social stories, and a good reinforcement schedule would help with reducing the behavior problems that may arise inflight. If any parent with children of special needs is reading this, I strongly suggest talking to the behavior consultants/clinical supervisors to incorporate this aspect into the program.

I love how you all just assume from a very brief video and article that it’s down to bad parenting! It may be, or it may not be. We simply don’t know as there is nothing in the article other than the mother admitting the child has behavioral problems and a suggestion that she seemed resigned to it.

Anyone who has any experience of dealing with children with special needs would completely understand if the kid has behavioral issues. We don’t live in the dark ages anymore and some form of understanding is needed.

tonystan wrote:

I love how you all just assume from a very brief video and article that it’s down to bad parenting! It may be, or it may not be. We simply don’t know as there is nothing in the article other than the mother admitting the child has behavioral problems and a suggestion that she seemed resigned to it.

Anyone who has any experience of dealing with children with special needs would completely understand if the kid has behavioral issues. We don’t live in the dark ages anymore and some form of understanding is needed.

It’s a 3 minute long video with snippets taken every hour showing a continual situation with no obvious intervention by the parents. Not even trying to stop him from sitting on top of the seat backs which is extremely dangerous for other people but also for the child.

Noise wrote:

SteveXC500 wrote:

Probably worse for the parents than the passengers.

Sometimes I find that hard to believe. In many cases, parents seem indifferent to the kid crying or acting up.

As a parent of three year olds, believe me that it’s mortifying when they act up - and boy do they act up.

Bose QC35II headphones................."What screaming child?"

The screams do sound demonic, I must admit.

It almost sounds as though that kid is possessed by something nefarious or evil.

How does the child have the energy or the voice to scream for that long?

I can commiserate totally. Last October, I was on a flight from Melbourne to Los Angeles -- United Airlines 787-9 -- and had the advantage of being upgraded to business class for the super long-haul flight. All I could think about was the comfort, and sleep I was going to get on the flight home. Unfortunately, neither the comfort or sleep materialized. Seated right behind me was what was presumably a mother and her child. Having seen them during boarding, I'd peg the child as being maybe 2-3 years old. The child WAILED for the ENTIRETY of the 15-hour flight. Seriously. I complained a bit, but ultimately realized the mother was just as mortified as I was (and surrounding passengers). The constant activity (flight attendants bringing things they hoped would distract the child, offering to hold him for a while, etc...) was so disruptive. The piercing wail of the child overcame my noise canceling headphones. At one point, I had ear plugs AND my noise canceling headphones on in hopes of getting some sleep, but those defenses were no match for the screaming child. It was awful.

United ultimately surprised me about a week after the flight, with an e-mail apologizing for the occurrence, and giving me a travel voucher, and depositing 10K miles in my Mileage Plus account. It was a nice preemptive touch -- providing a remedy before I had an opportunity to fire off a missive to customer service.

At the end of the day, a crying child is out of everyone's control -- especially one so young. All we can do as fliers is hope and pray that we don't wind up in the same cabin as one.

In my opinion, the parents should be ashamed of themselves for not raising a more disciplined and respectful child. For every screaming child on a plane, there are another 5-10 that are respectful and not screaming out-loud like that. There's no excuse.

sevenair wrote:

This ‘behavioural issues’ is just a modern fall back for poor and weak parenting, a society that looks for problems that aren’t there and people who seek as many oppression points as possible just like the allergy brigade.

This is nothing a good slap or two wouldn’t solve but that’s not the modern way. I doubt very much you’d see this 20-30 years ago. Another shocking display of the breakdown in society.

I never board anything that moves or enter a hotel without a stash of earplugs. My crewbag is usually stuffed with them.

The sad thing is that once you get the doctors involved it makes later life much more difficult when they come to applying for jobs that require a medical such as becoming a pilot. Accept there’s a problem, own it and act accordingly.

I partly pity the parents although my sympathy is limited as once he hits puberty and he’s taller and stronger than the parents and equally as out of control then life will get very ugly for them very quickly.

Just a fun fact: The few occasions my parents slapped me, I cannot remember why I was slapped. Meaning it is very likely that I will do that thing again. All I remember is that I was slapped. Punishment is a system that works on fear. And by making your kids afraid of an authority figure, rather than learning to respect that authority figure, you are making them complacent in oppression. Don't be surprised if you made your children afraid of you, to see them being complicit in a genocide. And for the record, I think behavioral issues is referring to legitimate mental conditions, such as autism.

Note to self: always bring earplugs or noise canceling headphones.

speedbird52 wrote:

sevenair wrote:

This ‘behavioural issues’ is just a modern fall back for poor and weak parenting, a society that looks for problems that aren’t there and people who seek as many oppression points as possible just like the allergy brigade.

This is nothing a good slap or two wouldn’t solve but that’s not the modern way. I doubt very much you’d see this 20-30 years ago. Another shocking display of the breakdown in society.

I never board anything that moves or enter a hotel without a stash of earplugs. My crewbag is usually stuffed with them.

The sad thing is that once you get the doctors involved it makes later life much more difficult when they come to applying for jobs that require a medical such as becoming a pilot. Accept there’s a problem, own it and act accordingly.

I partly pity the parents although my sympathy is limited as once he hits puberty and he’s taller and stronger than the parents and equally as out of control then life will get very ugly for them very quickly.

Just a fun fact: The few occasions my parents slapped me, I cannot remember why I was slapped. Meaning it is very likely that I will do that thing again. All I remember is that I was slapped. Punishment is a system that works on fear. And by making your kids afraid of an authority figure, rather than learning to respect that authority figure, you are making them complacent in oppression. Don't be surprised if you made your children afraid of you, to see them being complicit in a genocide. And for the record, I think behavioral issues is referring to legitimate mental conditions, such as autism.

I was smacked as a child. So was my partner. Neither of us fear our parents nor did we fear them. We simply didn’t make the same error twice if we were smacked.

Notwithstanding that in this instance the parents don’t smack their kid. They don’t even tell them off. They don’t make them sit on the seat and are happy to risk their child’s safety and the safety of others but I bet they still think they’re contenders for the parent of the year award.

I was smacked as a child. So was my partner. Neither of us fear our parents nor did we fear them. We simply didn’t make the same error twice if we were smacked.

Notwithstanding that in this instance the parents don’t smack their kid. They don’t even tell them off. They don’t make them sit on the seat and are happy to risk their child’s safety and the safety of others but I bet they still think they’re contenders for the parent of the year award.

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!

Last resort would be a piece of tape over the mouth of the kid. Yes, that's cruel but at least it's a good lesson for the child. They just got to learn not to scream and children of that age are perfectly capable of learning that. By letting them scream you're giving them a signal that it's okay to scream and next time they'll scream again because they can. In situations like these you got to be hard on the kid.

This is why I always bring noise cancelling headphones

speedbird52 wrote:

Punishment is a system that works on fear. And by making your kids afraid of an authority figure, rather than learning to respect that authority figure, you are making them complacent in oppression. Don't be surprised if you made your children afraid of you, to see them being complicit in a genocide.

Fear of the punishment is why most people don't do crime. I didn't hit my kids but a good pinch in the butt would reinforce lessons they did not want to accept. They don't fear me, they fear the pinch for bad behaviors. Trying to turn that behavior modification into genocide is ridiculous. Seems we have more of that going on today than ever before.

sevenair wrote:

This ‘behavioural issues’ is just a modern fall back for poor and weak parenting, a society that looks for problems that aren’t there and people who seek as many oppression points as possible just like the allergy brigade.

This is nothing a good slap or two wouldn’t solve but that’s not the modern way. I doubt very much you’d see this 20-30 years ago. Another shocking display of the breakdown in society.

I never board anything that moves or enter a hotel without a stash of earplugs. My crewbag is usually stuffed with them.

The sad thing is that once you get the doctors involved it makes later life much more difficult when they come to applying for jobs that require a medical such as becoming a pilot. Accept there’s a problem, own it and act accordingly.

I partly pity the parents although my sympathy is limited as once he hits puberty and he’s taller and stronger than the parents and equally as out of control then life will get very ugly for them very quickly.

Um. In this case "Behavioral problems" is likely a euphemism for "my kid has Autism and it didn't occur to me he would have such a bad meltdown"

I can tell you right now hitting an autistic kid is just gonna make it worse.
Also, people don't hit your kids. I've grown up to love but resent my father for hitting me. I still remember and I don't forgive him.

You guys need to remember that discipline is a process, it doesn't happen overnight. Young children have to learn discipline and when you encounter them on a flight (or anywhere else) they may not be all the way there yet. Cut the parents a little slack, surely they're trying. Don't you remember what it was like having young children?

All of you advocating for physical discipline would be locked up for doing so. As a parent of young children, if I were in a situation like this I'd appreciate an offer to help by playing a game or a word of sympathy. If you insist on expressing your displeasure the most I'd accept would be a side eye glance. Any action to take it upon yourself to discipline my child will result in a closed fist disciplinary action from me in response.

Just relax and give folks a break, they're trying.

Sedate or isolate the problem and don't fly. Simples. You do not have the right to fly. If you can't fly without causing a disturbance then tough luck. In a world where you can get thrown off for swearing or wearing a shirt with a swear word on yet it's ok to terrorise an entire economy cabin for a transatlantic flight then we have a serious problem.

It's an odd state of affairs when society quite happily mutilates boys without anaesthesia yet a clip around the ears will get you jail time.

What a wonderful world we live in!

I had the misery of a screaming toddler right behind me on a Monarch flight LCA - LGW once - over 4 hrs of it, which continued in the baggage carousel reclaim area. On the rare occasion he stopped, half the plane's passengers came out in spontaineous applause, which only set him off again. The crew took the toddler and mother into the forward lav in a vain attempt to remedy the situation. I would have happily flushed him down it. It was really awful.

The kid was also climbing on the seats and running down the aisles. Spare the rod spoil the child...

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Last resort would be a piece of tape over the mouth of the kid. Yes, that's cruel but at least it's a good lesson for the child. They just got to learn not to scream and children of that age are perfectly capable of learning that. By letting them scream you're giving them a signal that it's okay to scream and next time they'll scream again because they can. In situations like these you got to be hard on the kid.

A Hannibal style mouth piece with sound insulating foam would be more appropriate.

Or the good ole' Icelandic way.

In this instance the parents bought a ticket for a flight knowing that the child was uncontrollable. The victims here are the innocent passengers who simply bought a plane ticket in good faith and had their experience ruined at best and at worse had their safety severely compromised both due to the excessive noise (once your hearing is damaged it is lifelong) and were put at risk of head injury and blunt force trauma if the kid fell from above or was thrown across the cabin.

Shame on Lufthansa.

Flew US PHL-MHT in 2009 and we had a screaming 2 year old with his mother seated 2 rows behind us. Literally, this kid was screaming at full force ever since we started taxiing with the mother not doing much to fix the problem and this was coupled with a long ground delay at PHL. After about 25-30 minutes of sitting on the taiway one of the FA's eventually came over out of frustration and demanded the mother to make her kid stop screaming or the Captain would return us to the gate immediately. Well I think everyone on board, even the mother herself, got the messsge real quick and the kid quieted down and we eventually departed without incident.

This is why I have ZERO patience with parents. When I was a wee lad, we flew a lot. My mom NEVER allowed us to act up. We were expected to behave on the plane, period. Then again, this was the seventies and people still dressed up to fly so perhaps society was different. Regardless, the parents and perhaps cabin crew should have done something to calm the little rug rat. I totally understand that the young ones do act up and I can sympathize with parents over this. But then, I think about my widowed Mom flying with two small kids and not allowing any misbehavior and my level of understanding starts to wane...

PatrickZ80 wrote:

tonystan wrote:

Kid has behavioral problems, it happens! Giving the kid a slap is not exactly helpful!

I do not agree with that. Upon birth everyone has behavioral problems, simply because the way we're supposed to behave isn't naturally in us. We have to learn as we grow up and learning is done by correcting bad behaviour. In this case the bad behaviour was never corrected and therefor remained. A 3-year old can perfectly be tought not to scream, but nobody ever tought him. I agree with the people who blame it on the parents, they're the ones that were supposed to correct this behaviour. They're the ones that failed.

You don't know what the child's parents have or haven't done in terms of discipline and corrective action. You are making an assumption. For a child to scream nonstop for hours is a big red flag there may very well be physiological issues involved, not just behavioral ones.

posti wrote:

You guys need to remember that discipline is a process, it doesn't happen overnight. Young children have to learn discipline and when you encounter them on a flight (or anywhere else) they may not be all the way there yet. Cut the parents a little slack, surely they're trying. Don't you remember what it was like having young children?

All of you advocating for physical discipline would be locked up for doing so. As a parent of young children, if I were in a situation like this I'd appreciate an offer to help by playing a game or a word of sympathy. If you insist on expressing your displeasure the most I'd accept would be a side eye glance. Any action to take it upon yourself to discipline my child will result in a closed fist disciplinary action from me in response.

Just relax and give folks a break, they're trying.

8 hours is not trying.

1) My child has behavioral issues.
2) Should I book him on a long haul flight?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo. Who DOES that?

As a parent of young children, if I were in a situation like this I'd appreciate an offer to help by playing a game or a word of sympathy.

Keeping your kid under control is your job, not that of the other passengers. If you can’t entertain them, then what in the world makes you think that the rest of us should have to?

If you insist on expressing your displeasure the most I'd accept would be a side eye glance.

Well then, prepare yourself for a long flight. We’re at the point where passengers just aren’t going to accept being tormented like that any longer. I also believe that more pilots will return the plane to the gate and deplane the offensive toddler rather than subject the rest of the plane to that kind of lunacy. Will anyone physically attack the child? No. Will the parents of said child be subjected to remarks? Yes. Control your kid or get ready for some verbal push back.

8 hours is not trying.

Bingo. Dead on accurate.

skipness1E wrote:

1) My child has behavioral issues.
2) Should I book him on a long haul flight?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo. Who DOES that?

the same screwed up people who travel with an emotional support animal.

stlgph wrote:

I'll just say it. They can be thankful I wasn't on board.

Please enlighten us...what would you have done?
I am serious...I`d like to learn.

Cheers,


No Tax On Rotax

Passengers should sue the carrier (LH? UA?) for PTSD.

Aptivaboy wrote:

This is why I have ZERO patience with parents. When I was a wee lad, we flew a lot. My mom NEVER allowed us to act up. We were expected to behave on the plane, period. Then again, this was the seventies and people still dressed up to fly so perhaps society was different. Regardless, the parents and perhaps cabin crew should have done something to calm the little rug rat. I totally understand that the young ones do act up and I can sympathize with parents over this. But then, I think about my widowed Mom flying with two small kids and not allowing any misbehavior and my level of understanding starts to wane...

"little rug rat" - looks like lack of empathy. You lost whatever your mom taught you about empathy , I assume?

Subu

In December 2003, on a AA flight EWR-SJU on an A300, there was a woman with 2 children maybe 2-4 years old, in the center row a few aisles behind and right of me who were screaming, not staying in their seats, despite attempts by their mom and FA's to get them to stop. Thankfully I had a CD player with earphones to cut some of the sound down. But I was still concerned about the safety, especially if turbulence, to them and fellow passengers. Since it was a relatively short flight, thought maybe that is how kids that age sometimes behave, pain from the altitude changes and pressurization, I didn't make a big deal of it, but for sure if it was long red-eye flight, I might have been more concerned and distressed. There are also limits on how much FA's can do as they have other duties to the rest of the pax, they did try but it seemed to be of limited use.
I have been on enough flights with enough children (none of my own) to know that in the vast majority of cases they are generally not a problem in their behavior, their parents have them well under control, I understand the pain from pressurization and take that into account and put on the earphones. Still a almost long flight eternity of such behavior is just challenging and may be little that can be done about it with some, especially with certain disabilities and the need or only choice is to travel by air.

"little rug rat" - looks like lack of empathy. You lost whatever your mom taught you about empathy , I assume?

When they behave, they're children, young people, little angels, or whatever positive term one wishes to use. When they misbehave, they're rug rats, little demons, spawn of Satan, or whatever negative term one wishes to use.

I have empathy for parents who try to control their kids. I have zero empathy for parents who do not, like the mother of the kid in question on the Lufthansa flight. I have empathy for the other passengers trapped on the plane. I have zero empathy for those who excuse or minimize bad behavior. I possess empathy. Its just directed towards those who deserve it.

sevenair wrote:

Sedate or isolate the problem and don't fly. Simples. You do not have the right to fly. If you can't fly without causing a disturbance then tough luck. In a world where you can get thrown off for swearing or wearing a shirt with a swear word on yet it's ok to terrorise an entire economy cabin for a transatlantic flight then we have a serious problem.

It's an odd state of affairs when society quite happily mutilates boys without anaesthesia yet a clip around the ears will get you jail time.

What a wonderful world we live in!

FYI beating your kids without leaving permanent injury is still legal in the usa.

Also since you apparently didn't get it when myself and others said it before so I will say it again.

AUTISM. THIS LOOKS LIKE AUTISM.