Worst Airline Fleet Choice (Regrettable Aircraft Purchases)?

airboeingbus · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:01 pm

I was wondering what examples could be uses for airlines that where unhappy with aircraft they ordered and regretted ordering them ?

Zachbt · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:03 pm

AA and the md-11?

SFOtoORD · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:11 pm

CO and the late build 762s
Everyone who bought the A345 (once fuel got expensive)

MaxTrimm · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:14 pm

MH and the A380's?

FromCDGtoSYD · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:16 pm

Jetblue and Air Canada with E190

JetBuddy · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:19 pm

SK and the 737-600.

717atOGG · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:20 pm

Horizon Air with the Dornier 328. Although passengers liked them, they were hangar queens and went tech often. They were disposed of shortly afterwards.

LAX772LR · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:24 pm

Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter. :duck:

exFWAOONW · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:34 pm

As I recall both NW and PA didn't care for the DC8 and bought 707s in larger numbers.
UA and the caravelle. Nice ride, but no room for baggage, let alone freight to help pay the bills.

LHRFlyer · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:41 pm

Virgin Atlantic's "4 engines 4 long-haul" A340s.

MalevTU134 · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:43 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter.

SR/LX and RG seemed to like their M11s as well...unless somebody has heard otherwise?

MBSDALHOU · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:44 pm

What about Frontier and the A318? Some of those planes were 4-5 years old when they hit the scrapper

DDR · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:48 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter.

We're the A300s at CO inherited from EA? Can you remember what it was about the planes that CO did not like? I didn't even know CO had that type in its fleet. Learned something today!

Flanker7 · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:49 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter.

SR/LX and RG seemed to like their M11s as well...unless somebody has heard otherwise?

KL was happy with the MD11

PayaLebar · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:49 pm

SQ and the 727, 757 & DC10.

Dahlgardo · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:51 pm

Air France and the 767?

That was an oddball in the fleet.

hooverman · Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:59 pm

Kenia airways and the 77W

DDR · Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:04 pm

For AA, the 747SP was a necessary evil.

airzona11 · Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:11 pm

The F100 had an interesting stint @ AA.

BoeingGuy · Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:27 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
Air France and the 767?

That was an oddball in the fleet.

Just because it was an oddball doesn't make it a bad choice.

The PSA L-1011s are often cited as a poor fleet choice.

ACCS300 · Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:33 pm

UA and the recent cheap deal on 737-700's

Westjet 737-600's

ACCS300 · Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:34 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
Virgin Atlantic's "4 engines 4 long-haul" A340s.

It was more the slogan that failed, the A340's served Virgin very well

TigerFlyer · Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:02 pm

DL and AA domestic 747s in the 70s.

AAlaxfan · Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:50 pm

For some posters it was anyone who bought the 737 series vs the 320 series. :stirthepot:

BoeingGuy · Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:20 pm

AAlaxfan wrote:
For some posters it was anyone who bought the 737 series vs the 320 series.

Do you really want to start this? In some ways the 737 has better performance and economics, albeit the flight deck is nothing to brag about.

I admit the CO 767-200ER was an odd purchase. They got them basically the same time they got the 767-400s

mmo · Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:26 pm

SQ A340-300. Loved the so much some went directly to Boeing!

Super80Fan · Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:43 pm

F9 and the A318
AA and the MD11
AF and the Concorde

IranianMan123 · Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:59 pm

Qatar Airways A346

PatrickZ80 · Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:32 pm

Long way back, but the Lockheed L-188 Electra with KLM. They purchased it for their European network at the time all other airlines bought regional jets such as the Caravelle and BAC 1-11 for this job. KLM was the outsider using a prop for this, but not for long. The L-188s were quickly retired and replaced with DC-9s.

WIederling · Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:41 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
LHRFlyer wrote:
Virgin Atlantic's "4 engines 4 long-haul" A340s.

It was more the slogan that failed, the A340's served Virgin very well

Did it ?

With so much energy spent on lavish derision continued well beyond "its use before" date
VA ( and Airbus ) must have done something right in advertising.

LAX772LR · Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:30 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
SR/LX and RG seemed to like their M11s as well...unless somebody has heard otherwise?

Pretty sure any love-affair SR had with the M11 would've ended around September 1998, even though it wasn't specifically that model's fault.

WIederling wrote:
VA ( and Airbus ) must have done something right in advertising.

Virgin Australia didn't even exist at the time, and Airbus was using the slogan long before VS... though not to any widespread effect, as evident by the sales number.

dstc47 · Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:45 am

Aer Lingus with the Vickers Viking, bought as DC3 replacements.

Very quickly replaced by - a DC3.

ojjunior · Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:01 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

SR/LX and RG seemed to like their M11s as well...unless somebody has heard otherwise?

Oh yes, RG had very happy times with the MD-11 for years. Have no idea who thinks it was a bad choice for them or the source of it. I recall some of RG MD-11's were bought new from factory...

hispanola · Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:47 pm

The EI Vikings made for a funny story.

IB and the 757-200. They bought loads of them but couldn't quite find a way to deploy them properly. All 752s were replaced by A321s, which was an improvement for the company. Operating an all-Airbus fleet was also a goal of theirs at the time.

727LOVER · Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:55 pm

Anyone that bought the Convair 880 or 990.

What airline operated those the longest....and how long of time was it?

anstar · Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:17 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
Virgin Atlantic's "4 engines 4 long-haul" A340s.

To be honest I think the A340-300's at the time were a good choice for Virgin Atlantic. What I think was a BAD choice was the order for A340-600's. That should of been an A330 or 777-300ER order. Bizarelly 10 years down the line they did actually order the A330 to replace part of the A34-600 fleet

11725Flyer · Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:51 pm

Any airline that had an "Express" or "Connection" label and flew turboprops.

KLMatSJC · Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:12 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Jetblue and Air Canada with E190

You can definitely add US Airways to that list.

ER757 · Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:55 am

TigerFlyer wrote:
DL and AA domestic 747s in the 70s.

I think there were quite a few early operators of 747's that ended up realizing it was a poor choice
EA comes to mind immediately
National would probably be in that boat as well
Maybe Air Florida and the DC-10

TheGeordielad · Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:33 pm

China Southern B767s
SwissAir B743s
Lufthansa&Air France A342s
Aer Lingus B763s

FlySSC · Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:20 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter.

ALITALIA never operated any B744

BENAir01 · Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:07 pm

FlySSC wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Everyone who bought the A345, as it was a total flop

Most who bought the M11 (DL and AY seem to be the only happy exceptions)

AF seems pretty publicly whiny about its A380 choice

AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

CO choosing the 762ER and ditching its 763ER order, is still a head-scratcher

CO also absolutely hated its A300s. Gordon wrote extensively about that.

.......anyone who chose PW on the A320NEO, or on any other recent aircraft for that matter.

ALITALIA never operated any B744

LAX772LR was saying they canceled the order before they took delivery.

LAX772LR · Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:23 am

FlySSC wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
AZ recognizing that its 744s were way too much capacity, before delivery

ALITALIA never operated any B744

...pay closer attention.

BENAir01 wrote:
LAX772LR was saying they canceled the order before they took delivery.

LAX772LR · Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:49 am

DDR wrote:
Can you remember what it was about the planes that CO did not like?

Lowest dispatch reliability in the fleet + high maintenance costs, didn't help...
But the main problem was that its capacity made it difficult to make money, no matter what CO did:

They tried adding more premium seats and going for yield, but then the only routes that it could be used on was Houston to Florida; as NYC had too much competition for that to work, and their Cleveland and Denver hubs weren't powerful enough to drive yield at the volume needed for it to be profitable.
They tried configuring it primarily with Y seats, then heavily discounting in order to fill it; but having so many people at cheap fares just made it burn more fuel, which cancelled out the revenue gained from having full seats

DDR wrote:
I didn't even know CO had that type in its fleet. Learned something today!

afcjets · Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:24 pm

DDR wrote:
We're the A300s at CO inherited from EA?

Yes, and Eastern really liked them.

PSA and the L1011
US and AA and the F100
WN and the 717
HP and the 747

csturdiv · Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:21 am

afcjets wrote:
DDR wrote:
We're the A300s at CO inherited from EA?

Yes, and Eastern really liked them.

PSA and the L1011
US and AA and the F100
WN and the 717
HP and the 747

WN was not a 717 buyer, other than in the sense that they came along with the acquisition of FL. Hardly a regrettable purchase.

afcjets · Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:56 am

They didn't just come along with the aquistion of FL, they were 2/3 of FL's fleet. The greatest benefit of the FL merger was getting rid of FL, and getting a ton of gates in ATL to start out big.

Likewise, CO was not an A300 buyer, they came from the Texas Air aquisition of EA.

bgboiflyer · Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:26 am

Pretty much any Transaero planes when they existed back in 2015

aerolimani · Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:51 am

Air Canada had the A340-300 from 1995-2008. On the other hand, they had the A340-500 for only 3 years, from 2004-2007. After the -300s were gone, their entire fleet became all twin-engine.

VSMUT · Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:59 pm

Island Air and their junky old ATRs. Ex-American Eagle ATRs are known as some of the worst of the type in existence.

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