Idlewildspotter
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:30 pm

2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:13 am

Can we start a list of Fifth-freedom routes internationally, where members can contribute and help others plan flights accordingly?

It can be internationally. Not just USA. Many would like to know this information and a thread would be useful.

List the Airline, Route, Equipment.
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hoons90
Posts: 3266
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:33 am

KE ICN-NRT-HNL
CX HKG-TPE-ICN
TG BKK-TPE-ICN
TR SIN-TPE-ICN
TG BKK-HKG-ICN
ET ADD-HKG-ICN
AI DEL-HKG-ICN
SQ SIN-ICN-LAX
SQ SIN-NRT-LAX
SQ SIN-HKG-SFO
SQ SIN-FRA-JFK
SQ SIN-MAN-IAH
CX HKG-TPE-NRT
CX HKG-TPE-KIX
CX HKG-TPE-NGO
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
thevery
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:45 pm

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:46 am

EK DXB-SYD-AKL A388
EK DXB-MEL-AKL A388
EK DXB-BNE-AKL A388
 
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aemoreira1981
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Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:58 am

To New York (only the 5th freedom portion is shown) not already mentioned

PR and CX: YVR to JFK (PR originates in MNL and CX in HKG)---both on a B77W
EK: MXP to JFK and ATH to EWR (originates in DXB) - to JFK on an A388 and to EWR on a B77W
ET: LFW to EWR (originates in ADD) - usually a B788, but sometimes a B77L
BW and OJ: GEO to JFK (straight 5th freedom) - BW on a B738 and OJ on a B752 or B763
AI: LHR to EWR (originates in AMD) - on a B788

Of note: LY has the 5th freedom to fly LHR to the USA if it were to so desire, but has not invoked those rights.

Also of note, before KU gave up its 5th freedom rights (over its refusal to fly Israeli passport holders on just JFK-LHR), AI used to codeshare with KU on that fight after it quit LHR to JFK, a route it had flown for 48 years (service to DEL from JFK is now nonstop).
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16332
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:00 am

EK no longer operates SYD-AKL.

Other EK 5th freedoms are:

SYD-BKK
BNE-SIN
MEL-SIN
SIN-CMB
CMB-MLE
BKK-HKG
JFK-MXP
EWR-ATH
RGN-PNH
HRE-LUN
CKY-DKR
GIG-EZE
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
luftaom
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:34 am

QF DXB-LHR and vv 388
LA SYD-AKL and vv 787
NZ LAX-LHR and vv 77W
BA SIN-SYD and vv 77W
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
Aeroplane123
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:39 am

Cathay Pacific YVR-JFK 77W
 
notconcerned
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:08 am

QR TBS-GYD
BR BKK-VIE, BKK-LHR, BKK-AMS
SQ ARN-DME
D7 KIX-HNL
 
2Holer4Longhaul
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:03 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:13 am

UA ORD-HKG-SIN is around.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
redadeco
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:13 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:24 am

AMM-BKK-HKG RJ 787
CMN-DLA-NSI AT 737
LFW-ABV-NSI KP 737
LFW-DLA-BGF KP 737
ADD-BKO-DKR ET 737
NBO-BKO-DKR KQ 737
DOH-GRU-EZE QR 777
SCL-MAD-FRA LA 787
AMS-SIN-DPS KL 777
NKC-DKR-CKY L6 737
ADD-LFW-JFK ET 787
LFW-OUA-NIM KP 737
CDG-LAX-PPT AF 777 & TN 340
AMS-EZE-SCL KL 777
YYZ-SCL-EZE AC 787
MEX-TIJ-PVG AM 787
ADD-HKG-NRT ET 787

Tired for now, will be back with more exotic routes soon.
 
coachclass
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:39 am

Do AA, DL or UA currently have any 5th Freedom rights in/thru Europe? Didn't PA have such out of FRA?
 
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Coal
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:42 am

ET SIN-KUL-SIN 787-8
HY SIN-KUL-SIN 787-8
CI SIN-SUB-SIN A343
CX SIN-BKK-SIN A333
DL SIN-NRT-SIN 763

GA SIN-AMS 77W (However, this shows as bookable on Google schedules but I understand it is not actually bookable)
GA SIN-LHR 77W (However, this shows as bookable on Google schedules but I understand it is not actually bookable)

Bonus historical ex-SIN 5th freedom routes:

WY SIN-KUL-SIN
WY SIN-CAN-SIN
LX SIN-BKK-SIN
LH SIN-CGK-SIN
AF SIN-CGK-SIN
QR SIN-DPS-SIN
Last edited by Coal on Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-CGK-SIN | SQ SIN-DPS | GA DPS-SUB | MI SUB-SIN | MI SIN-KNO | GA KNO-CGK-PNK | GA PNK-CGK | SQ CGK-SIN
 
notconcerned
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:46 am

redadeco wrote:
CDG-LAX-PPT AF 777 & TN 340
MEX-TIJ-PVG AM 787


Those 2 are not 5th freedom routes, CDG and PPT belong to the same country, France. MEX and TIJ are also located in the same country, Mexico.
 
HTCone
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:58 am

ET ADD-DUB-LAX and vice versa
 
hoons90
Posts: 3266
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:06 am

Some more...
* = seasonal

TWB TAE-KIX-GUM 738
KE CJU-KIX-GUM 738*
OZ ICN-KIX-SPN 321*
EY AUH-PEK-NGO 332
CA PEK-MAD-GRU 332
KL AMS-TPE-MNL 777
LH FRA-LOS-SSG 333
LH FRA-GYD-ASB-FRA 321
KL AMS-KGL-EBB-AMS 330
AI DEL-HKG-KIX 788
TK IST-FRU-ULN 739
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
Luxair747SP
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:18 am

LG SCN-HAM
OK HAM-GOT
 
redadeco
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:13 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:31 am

notconcerned wrote:
redadeco wrote:
CDG-LAX-PPT AF 777 & TN 340
MEX-TIJ-PVG AM 787


Those 2 are not 5th freedom routes, CDG and PPT belong to the same country, France. MEX and TIJ are also located in the same country, Mexico.


You can't board at CDG or PPT without a passport and US visa and still nothing guarantees you'll make it past CBP at LAX to catch the second leg, not quite domestic.
 
redadeco
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:13 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:57 am

LIS-ACC-TMS TP 320
DXB-LCA-MLA EK 777
PTP-PAP-MIA AF 320
LHR-NAS-GCM BA 777
LGW-ANU-SKB BA 777
LGW-ANU-TAB BA 777
LGW-UVF-GND BA 777
ZRH-DXB-MCT LX 330
 
notconcerned
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:03 am

redadeco wrote:
notconcerned wrote:
redadeco wrote:
CDG-LAX-PPT AF 777 & TN 340
MEX-TIJ-PVG AM 787


Those 2 are not 5th freedom routes, CDG and PPT belong to the same country, France. MEX and TIJ are also located in the same country, Mexico.


You can't board at CDG or PPT without a passport and US visa and still nothing guarantees you'll make it past CBP at LAX to catch the second leg, not quite domestic.


It's not about domestic, it's by definition, 5th freedom is carrying passengers from Country A to B, and onward from B to C. CDG and PPT are in the same country (Country A to B to A). If you use passport example, you require passport from traveling GUM-NRT-HNL, you even require passport for flying GUM-HNL, but GUM-NRT-HNL would not be considered 5th freedom.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:29 am

CA PEK-MUC-ATH (about to go)
CA PEK-VIE-BCN
QR DOH-BKK-HAN
QR DOH-SGN-PNH
OD KUL-DPS-BNE
CI TPE-BNE-AKL
CI TPE-MEL-CHC (seasonal)
KQ NBO-BKK-HKG
TR SIN-DMK-KIX
TR SIN-KHH-KIX
TR SIN-DMK-NRT
TR SIN-TPE-NRT
TR SIN-TPE-CTS
 
FromCDGtoSYD
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:29 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:08 am

KE ICN-CMB-MLE
 
BENAir01
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:42 pm

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:16 pm

QR GRU-EZE
AI HKG-KIX/ICN
lots out of BKK.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
grjplanes
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:01 pm

KQ via both sides of the Victoria Falls: NBO-LVI-CPT and NBO-VFA-CPT, both E190

SW: WDH-GBE-DUR, A319
SA: JNB-ACC-IAD A330/340
SA: JNB-DKR-IAD A333
SA: JNB-ACC-ABJ A330/340
SA: JNB-LBV-DLA A320
SA: JNB-LBV-COO A320
 
BuildingMyBento
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:44 pm

How about CZ CAN-YVR-MEX?
 
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CollegeAviator
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:55 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:43 pm

Jet Airways B777-300ER on AMS-YYZ-AMS (part of the DEL-AMS-YYZ-AMS-DEL rotation..)
 
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eastafspot
Posts: 1016
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:41 pm

Almost all routes on Kenya Airways and RwandAir networks that serve 2 destinations ;)

I only dream that one day RwandAir will sell BRU-LGW in A330...
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Air Uganda, Kenya Airways and Rwandair...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki
 
ALexeu
Posts: 1447
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:01 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:19 am

B2 (MSQ - BUD - BEG)
and soon HU (PEK - PRG - BEG)
 
Bostrom
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:47 am

Ethiopian ARN-OSL
 
TG788
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:39 am

Coal wrote:
CX SIN-BKK-SIN A333


This is an A359 now :)

hoons90 wrote:
KL AMS-TPE-MNL 777
LH FRA-LOS-SSG 333
KL AMS-KGL-EBB-AMS 330


These don't appear to be bookable :(

BKK-KUL on RJ
PEK-NRT on PK
DXB-LHR on BI
KHI-MCT on TG
DXB-BAH on CX
EZE-MVD on AF
CCU-BKK on KB
CCU-BKK on B3
CCU-SIN on KB
IXB-BKK on KB
DEL-KTM on B3
DEL-KTM on KB
GAU-BKK on KB
BOM-BKK on GA
BOM-KUL on XT
VTE-PNH on VN
BAH-KWI on KL
BAH-KWI on IX
KUL-CGK on KL
RIX-JFK on HY
BKK-CAN on UL
BKK-CAN on KQ
NRT-HNL on CI
NRT-HNL on KE
 
redadeco
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:13 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:03 am

BuildingMyBento wrote:
How about CZ CAN-YVR-MEX?


There's no such route, passengers connect onto AM for YVR-MEX.
 
blandy62
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:47 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:34 am

KL AMS-TPE-MNL 777

Kl doesn't have right on TPE-MNL

a few more:

Ural airlines PEK-BKK
Vietnam airlines: REP-LPQ
Maldivian: MAA-DAC
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:45 pm

SJU-SDQ on Air Europa. Not sure the type.

and, err, I remember Avianca doing SJU-Lisbon, Madrid and Frankfurt when I was a kid on their Boeing 747s, and Lufthansa doing SJU-South America on 747s as well!
 
BuildingMyBento
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:18 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:14 pm

redadeco wrote:
BuildingMyBento wrote:
How about CZ CAN-YVR-MEX?


There's no such route, passengers connect onto AM for YVR-MEX.


Try this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-csn-m ... SKBN17D2DW
 
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jlaforteza
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:57 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:26 am

Although HK express won't sell through tickets for now, but it is a fifth freedom flight. HKG-NGO-GUM

http://m.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/econom ... ight-route
 
BuildingMyBento
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:18 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:36 am

PEK-PRG-BEG with HU (http://www.exyuaviation.com/2017/06/hai ... grade.html), to possibly start next month
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

A few I haven't noticed yet:

EK DXB-SYD-CHC
CA PEK-YUL-HAV
ON IUE-HIR-BNE
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
fi622
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:10 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:25 am

A few more:

ON TRW-MAJ-PNI B733
TK JIB-MGQ B738

WB COO-LBV B73G
KQ ACC-ROB-FNA B737
KL FNA-ROB A332
SN FNA-ROB A332/333
SN DKR-CKY A333
ZI (Aigle Azur) CKY-BKO A320
ET ABJ-CKY B788
ET DKR-BKO B788
ET DLA-SSG B788
TU DKR-BKO A320
TU NIM-ABJ A320
AT BJL-OXB B738
AT LBV-SSG B738
EK ABJ-ACC B77W
MS ABJ-ACC B738
2J (Air Burkina) ABJ-ACC E170
 
ooslc
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:51 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:44 am

redadeco wrote:
BuildingMyBento wrote:
How about CZ CAN-YVR-MEX?


There's no such route, passengers connect onto AM for YVR-MEX.


Yep it exists. Leaves CAN on Mon, Thu, Sat. Leaves MEX on Tue, Fri, Sun.
    Ironically, I don't work for OO anymore, and I'm not in SLC anymore. PDX based, aviation enthusiast, non-aviation worker.
 
debonair
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:27 am

 
blandy62
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:47 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:38 pm

just wondering, does ET have traffic right on VIE-BRU? doesn't seem to be able to book it
 
evank516
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:26 pm

coachclass wrote:
Do AA, DL or UA currently have any 5th Freedom rights in/thru Europe? Didn't PA have such out of FRA?


I don't know of any current routes, but I remember DL's JFK-BOM flight had a stopover in CDG. Routing was JFK-CDG-BOM-CDG-JFK. Service eventually became nonstop and was then subsequently terminated a few years ago.
 
IADCA
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Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:15 pm

notconcerned wrote:
redadeco wrote:
notconcerned wrote:

Those 2 are not 5th freedom routes, CDG and PPT belong to the same country, France. MEX and TIJ are also located in the same country, Mexico.


You can't board at CDG or PPT without a passport and US visa and still nothing guarantees you'll make it past CBP at LAX to catch the second leg, not quite domestic.


It's not about domestic, it's by definition, 5th freedom is carrying passengers from Country A to B, and onward from B to C. CDG and PPT are in the same country (Country A to B to A). If you use passport example, you require passport from traveling GUM-NRT-HNL, you even require passport for flying GUM-HNL, but GUM-NRT-HNL would not be considered 5th freedom.


More precisely - because though you clearly understand, this thread shows that others clearly do not - fifth freedom is the ability of a carrier from Country A in your example to carry local traffic between B and C. Carrying passengers from A to C has nothing to do with it - that's just a stopover (second freedom). Fifth freedom refers specifically to the local traffic rights on the B to C sector. There are a lot of flights listed on this thread that are not fifth freedom.
 
blandy62
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:47 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:16 am

CDG-LAX-PPT is definitely no 5th freedom.

As for people needing a passport to board that flight, this is just because of the transit in the USA. I suspect that prior to 9/11 people could take the flight without a passport. May be someone can confirm that?


On the fifth freedom site, seems that ET is changing service in the far east.

1. New ADD-HKG-MNL (but I doubt they might get the right on HKG-MNL).

2. New ADD-ICN-NRT with probably right on KIX-NRT.

3. Termination of HKG-NRT and HKG-ICN
 
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angusjt
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:08 am

Re: 2017 List of 5th-freedom routes

Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:10 am

Air Asia X KUL-OOL-AKL
Qantas SYD-SIN-LHR (From next March)

I also recall QF operating some SYD-CGK-SIN flights during peak seasons, anyone know if they still operate / how often?

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