Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
greenair727 wrote:Stepping back a few years ago, CO was the best US airline out there---newest fleet, sound books, and, very importantly, a work ethic and outlook that treated people decently. They were smart and human. And any public/customer gaffes were smartly contained. In the last few years, on UA I've experienced COUNTLESS silly things UA has done on my flights--even little things like putting all the pillows in the overheads in the back of the plane so there is almost no overhead space, so the economy plus folks have more space---and perhaps to force a few economy people to pay $---on the plane---to move up. From my experience, and from the stories I've read, UA is clearly the most clueless and inappropriate US carrier. On routes/schedules when I can, I always avoid them and fly another carrier---even if the price is a little higher. That said, I truly miss the days of CO. Any precedent or possibility of a UA-CO breakup? I know its against the trend of larger and larger companies....
(I realize I may be attacked by the UA loyalists here!)
greenair727 wrote:Stepping back a few years ago, CO was the best US airline out there---newest fleet, sound books, and, very importantly, a work ethic and outlook that treated people decently.
greenair727 wrote:From my experience, and from the stories I've read, UA is clearly the most clueless and inappropriate US carrier. On routes/schedules when I can, I always avoid them and fly another carrier---even if the price is a little higher.
panam330 wrote:Uh, no. The company is merged, and there is no way to "separate" it and revive a dead airline. People need to get over this already.
102IAHexpress wrote:panam330 wrote:Uh, no. The company is merged, and there is no way to "separate" it and revive a dead airline. People need to get over this already.
Uh, yes. Legal "separations" are done all the time. The opposite of a merger and acquisition is a corporate divestiture.
aviationjunky wrote:. Much like Eastern just tried and failed at. I.
greenair727 wrote:That said, I truly miss the days of CO. Any precedent or possibility of a UA-CO breakup? I know its against the trend of larger and larger companies....
(I realize I may be attacked by the UA loyalists here!)
Boeing778X wrote:UA was, and is, a trash airline, and even with the abundance of CO management, it is still mediocre, at best. I've met several more ex-CO employees still active and it really is a damn shame they have to work with that carrier. CO was an exceptional airline, and their business plan should be a topic of discussion for airlines everywhere.
Smisek and Tilton destroyed their respected airlines, Smisek especially, as he was a.) Dumb enough to go along with Tilton, and b.) A terrible CEO by every stretch. When you merge a great airline with a terrible airline, you get...a TERRIBLE airline. UA can never dream to be a fraction of what CO was.
Now, someday, I hope someone successfully resurrects CO, much like Eastern, but until then, come fly with us at AA
102IAHexpress wrote:panam330 wrote:Uh, no. The company is merged, and there is no way to "separate" it and revive a dead airline. People need to get over this already.
Uh, yes. Legal "separations" are done all the time. The opposite of a merger and acquisition is a corporate divestiture.
EssentialBusDC wrote:Boeing778X wrote:UA was, and is, a trash airline, and even with the abundance of CO management, it is still mediocre, at best. I've met several more ex-CO employees still active and it really is a damn shame they have to work with that carrier. CO was an exceptional airline, and their business plan should be a topic of discussion for airlines everywhere.
Smisek and Tilton destroyed their respected airlines, Smisek especially, as he was a.) Dumb enough to go along with Tilton, and b.) A terrible CEO by every stretch. When you merge a great airline with a terrible airline, you get...a TERRIBLE airline. UA can never dream to be a fraction of what CO was.
Now, someday, I hope someone successfully resurrects CO, much like Eastern, but until then, come fly with us at AA
I hope you are in Colorado cause that is some good stuff you are smoking.
LifetimeGS wrote:CO would be bankrupt IMHO. They used the $1B in cash on hand at UA and the merger to clean up its balance sheet at the time. Had they survived the cash flow problem coming up they would be a great airline making some of the changes for the good that DL does for the industry today.
I wish the merger never happened. If US merged with UA that would have left AA and CO and I really doubt that merger would have been approved. Leave passengers and smaller cities better served.
I believe there will be another round of mergers in the future saving UA from extinction. Much like PA, TW, Sears (once the largest retailer), ect UA will self destruct. I'm sure I'll be flamed for the above the statement but I'll check back in ten years or so.
11725Flyer wrote:
It has nothing to do with UA loyalists. The entity is called United Airlines. There's no going back. Ever. I'm surprised you even posted this.
AA737-823 wrote:There's a lot of rose colored glasses going around here, and I say that as a CO loyalist, gold elite, blah blah.
Frankly, Continental's golden days were BEHIND them, even at the time of the merger. And yeah, United was a pretty crappy airline. Junk planes. Obsolete everything.
But much friendlier crews.
Continental was certainly very well run, under GORDON. The next two bozos started the unraveling from the get-go.
Smisek would have ruined Continental, regardless of whether it merged with United, just as he ruined United.
To no one's surprise.
I stuck with post-merger United until this year. After another SFO December debacle, more staffing/crewing issues, and the refusal of arrogant ex-Cons to be even remotely polite to passengers, I've started booking away from UA.
You can only abuse me and my time with your poor planning so many times, before I say ENOUGH!
EA CO AS wrote:Except they'd need two separate operating certificates, as the CO cert was the surviving one, meaning legacy UA would need to apply for and receive their own AND have their equipment, processes, etc. transferred to it.
727LOVER wrote:aviationjunky wrote:. Much like Eastern just tried and failed at. I.
Did I miss something?
102IAHexpress wrote:panam330 wrote:Uh, no. The company is merged, and there is no way to "separate" it and revive a dead airline. People need to get over this already.
Uh, yes. Legal "separations" are done all the time. The opposite of a merger and acquisition is a corporate divestiture.
panam330 wrote:102IAHexpress wrote:panam330 wrote:Uh, no. The company is merged, and there is no way to "separate" it and revive a dead airline. People need to get over this already.
Uh, yes. Legal "separations" are done all the time. The opposite of a merger and acquisition is a corporate divestiture.
I know it can be done, thanks. And has that ever been done for an airline, seven years later, with all of the fleet and labor integrations that have been done? Didn't think so. But you can go ahead and insist. Next time, try it without the snark.
102IAHexpress wrote:11725Flyer wrote:The United brand may never recover. Divestiture may not be the best option right now but re-branding should be on the table. If I were on the United Continental board I would look into a plan that would Re-brand the airline Continental Airlines.
penguins wrote:102IAHexpress wrote:11725Flyer wrote:The United brand may never recover. Divestiture may not be the best option right now but re-branding should be on the table. If I were on the United Continental board I would look into a plan that would Re-brand the airline Continental Airlines.
If UA can recover from 9/11, they can certainly recover from this debacle. Rebranding is completely absurd.
penguins wrote:102IAHexpress wrote:11725Flyer wrote:The United brand may never recover. Divestiture may not be the best option right now but re-branding should be on the table. If I were on the United Continental board I would look into a plan that would Re-brand the airline Continental Airlines.
If UA can recover from 9/11, they can certainly recover from this debacle. Rebranding is completely absurd.
VC10er wrote:Tylenol recovered, AA received after the JFK crash, all the BAD banks did after 2008, UA will recover if Oscar does the right thing now. I don't know who their PR firm is, but if they are good, they will turn it around in time.
If the stock slips more, then there will be a buying frenzy because UA is not going to go out of business over this. The news cycle will last a bit longer and then something else will consume the airwaves and internet.
102IAHexpress wrote:panam330 wrote:102IAHexpress wrote:
Uh, yes. Legal "separations" are done all the time. The opposite of a merger and acquisition is a corporate divestiture.
I know it can be done, thanks. And has that ever been done for an airline, seven years later, with all of the fleet and labor integrations that have been done? Didn't think so. But you can go ahead and insist. Next time, try it without the snark.
Actually, you didn't think it could be done, that's why you said "there is no way to separate it"... your words not mine. Regarding airline divestitures; AMR corp and US Airways Group did a divestiture after their merger. It's not that complicated. Next time if you're not prepared to take it then don't dish it out to other forum posters.
aviationjunky wrote:I haven't flown UA post merger, but I'm sure it can't be nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.
Max Q wrote:LifetimeGS wrote:CO would be bankrupt IMHO. They used the $1B in cash on hand at UA and the merger to clean up its balance sheet at the time. Had they survived the cash flow problem coming up they would be a great airline making some of the changes for the good that DL does for the industry today.
I wish the merger never happened. If US merged with UA that would have left AA and CO and I really doubt that merger would have been approved. Leave passengers and smaller cities better served.
I believe there will be another round of mergers in the future saving UA from extinction. Much like PA, TW, Sears (once the largest retailer), ect UA will self destruct. I'm sure I'll be flamed for the above the statement but I'll check back in ten years or so.
What total BS, Continental was in far better shape than UAL by any standard, in fact it was UA that had enormous debts coming due soon, the merger saved UA, CAL could
have continued just fine.
Should have kept Continental as the name too !
aviationjunky wrote:727LOVER wrote:aviationjunky wrote:. Much like Eastern just tried and failed at. I.
Did I miss something?
Apparently. Eastern Airlines was purchased by Texas Air, and was liquidated. The airline tried to start up again in 2015, but failed and now they are closing as well.