ERJ170 wrote:

I think a little feed should be considered by DL in the following stations:

2x ORF
2x EWN
2x AVL
2x GSP
1x CAE
2x CHS
1x MYR
2x OAJ
2x TYS
2x FAY
2x ROA

Why should they feed a network of routes that were all started to serve a local O&D market? With a bunch of routes that would, largely, be 100% flow. That type of thing works at a fortress hub.. at a very large focus city, not so much.

hockyluv21 wrote:

On a realistic note, I do think that GLO is still considering RDU as an expansion target, and they might be the ones to fly daily RDU-MEM.

2 hours and change in the SF340......

Just for S& G, let's suppose DL decides the RDU-CDG is a success after the subsidy period runs out and wants to up the game. What's the most likely scenario... 2nd daily CDG or new daily AMS? Assuming no upgauge performed from 763..

ERJ170 wrote:

Just for S& G, let's suppose DL decides the RDU-CDG is a success after the subsidy period runs out and wants to up the game. What's the most likely scenario... 2nd daily CDG or new daily AMS? Assuming no upgauge performed from 763..

I sure am hoping for AMS. But I am not holding my breath. Having three TATL routes seems too much given RDU's size.

So with the list of replacement shops going into T2, what are the thoughts? I don't see very much that makes RDU unique in the list but I guess most are expected shops for an airport... your thoughts?

ERJ170 wrote:

So with the list of replacement shops going into T2, what are the thoughts? I don't see very much that makes RDU unique in the list but I guess most are expected shops for an airport... your thoughts?

Well, TripAdvisor.com decided to put their first ever brick-and-mortar store in RDU, so that's pretty cool, I think. Other than that, it's the usual refresh.

Need a Bojangles in T2 like CLT has

Bojagles or a Cookout.. how about a Peter Millar or Raleigh Denim store???

I feel like Delta will be announcing nonstop service to MCI real soon on the B717-200 or CRJ-900 jet and seasonal service to San Diego on the A319-100.

NCavi8tor wrote:

I feel like Delta will be announcing nonstop service to MCI real soon on the B717-200 or CRJ-900 jet and seasonal service to San Diego on the A319-100.

Any source for this?

Those would be nice... except the seasonal on a 319...

ERJ170 wrote:

Those would be nice... except the seasonal on a 319...

I don't really like the seasonal route either, but I believe Delta might test the waters on the route during the higher demand season and share the aircraft with the San Diego-San Jose del Cabo route.

Delta had a lot of JV. It would be nice if some of the partners start RDU service.. and I don't mean the likes of Korean or Alitalia.. but WestJet Encour? Aeromexico? GOL? Somebody!!!!

ERJ170 wrote:

So with the list of replacement shops going into T2, what are the thoughts? I don't see very much that makes RDU unique in the list but I guess most are expected shops for an airport... your thoughts?

I wish they would bring back Maui Tacos

Alitalia is out of the question, they are most likely to leave the skyteam alliance due to their JV with Etihad. I do have high hopes for Aero Mexico to join the RDU team with daily service to MEX. Also Montreal is very likely another destination if WestJet decided to jump on the route.

ERJ170 wrote:

I think a little feed should be considered by DL in the following stations:

2x ORF
2x EWN
2x AVL
2x GSP
1x CAE
2x CHS
1x MYR
2x OAJ
2x TYS
2x FAY
2x ROA

I just don't see RDU as a hub like this when ATL is so close.

Among all of these, I think 2x (or 3x?) RDU-AVL might work on the basis of O/D only.

(1) RDU and AVL are in the same state, which tends to mean stronger ties. (In-state colleges, etc.) A lot of the other cities on your list are in different states, meaning the ties between them are less strong so O/D demand would be lower.
(2) Despite being in the same state, RDU/AVL are far enough away that driving is a hassle and flying could be significantly faster, even given time spent on the ground at airports (both airports are manageable size so you don't lose much time navigating the terminals.)
(3) There are plenty of daily RDU-CLT flights but CLT is far enough from AVL that flying RDU-CLT and then driving CLT-AVL is not really a sensible option.
(4) Raleigh being the state capital, and the Triangle being a tech center, means there would be a good bit of business travel.
(5) Asheville is a pretty strong tourist destination.
(6) There is no train service or any possibility for reasonable train service between RDU-AVL I am sure that Amtrak's Piedmont trains eats significantly into O/D travel between CLT, GSO, and RDU. RDU-AVL train service was studied at one point but climbing the mountain between Old Fort and Black Mountain would just be too slow for the service to be competitive. A bus transfer at Salisbury has also been considered, but again - the transfer makes it less competitive.
(7) The route has been run before by other airlines with moderate success; growth and current economic conditions make it likely to be more successful now than in the past.

ERJ170 wrote:

Delta had a lot of JV. It would be nice if some of the partners start RDU service.. and I don't mean the likes of Korean or Alitalia.. but WestJet Encour? Aeromexico? GOL? Somebody!!!!

GOL does not fly to Miami or Orlando. Why would GOL fly to Raleigh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/norwegian-air-international-disrupting-the-legacy_us_58ebb4b5e4b081da6ad00643

Looks like RDU, along with BWI and BUF, is one of the destinations Norwegian Air is looking into serving with their A321NeoLRs. I know it's not definite, but I really hope this happens!

There is a lot of discussion on the other thread about this. To note, DY doesn't even receive their 321NEO until 2019... and I don't see them flying TATL until 2020/2021... in addition, that other thread seems to be looking at LGW.. but I don't see that mentioned.. I'm thinking this would be an Irish connection... maybe it's just me... but would be nice to see a new tail...

Any new news at RDU as far as routes? It's been killing bad quiet lately... a few are soon to be coming online (SEA on Delta and such) but still quiet..

VX just announced SFO just a short time ago. You aren't going to keep getting a new route or airline every single month. I do think that San Diego is not far away. Hopefully on AS.

RDU is starting to struggle in managing their growth. Cutting 10% of their parking garage for the summer season was among the stupidest ideas they've come up with yet.

Can some please let RDUAA know that the international gates should be on one of the new piers across with access below to the FIS instead of or in addition to at the C end? They certainly did not plan for international growth with the current make-up.. although, I guess it could be said someone could use the gates any other time except between 2-7pm... and when are all the gate moves going to be complete?

If RDUAA were smart they would make the international gates on a pier closer to security. Problem is they've proven time and again they don't account for growth or use the experiences of those who work at RDU.

Frontier is starting daily service to Las Vegas starting Aug 14.

It looks as if Southwest will be ending its LAS nonstop after November 4th. Seems strange as the fight appeared to be doing well. Anyone know why?

Delta did just upgrade to widebody CDG.. and still has BNA and SEA to start... and they are having decent results at RDU, I think... we shall see... there are little inklings of future routes stated up here.. I am wondering what's next? Was hoping some JV or interline partners would come but so far, crickets...

ww0985 wrote:

It looks as if Southwest will be ending its LAS nonstop after November 4th. Seems strange as the fight appeared to be doing well. Anyone know why?

I've heard that WN has been decreasing some Vegas flying in general lately. Not sure if the yields are just lower and they are putting planes on international routes. DL may jump on this as they've been growing out of Vegas at a similar rate as RDU.

DL may jump on this as they've been growing out of Vegas at a similar rate as RDU.

Didn't DL fly this and drop the route?

rajincajun01 wrote:

ww0985 wrote:

It looks as if Southwest will be ending its LAS nonstop after November 4th. Seems strange as the fight appeared to be doing well. Anyone know why?

I've heard that WN has been decreasing some Vegas flying in general lately. Not sure if the yields are just lower and they are putting planes on international routes. DL may jump on this as they've been growing out of Vegas at a similar rate as RDU.

Yes, they are cutting frequency to LAS on a lot routes.

FlyPIJets wrote:

DL may jump on this as they've been growing out of Vegas at a similar rate as RDU.

Didn't DL fly this and drop the route?

They did some flights early this year for some convention, but it wasn't intended to stay.

Anyone have any thoughts or rumors what next for RDU? New Delta destination? New airlines? NEw clubs? Just wondering if there are any rumors floating around..

ERJ170 wrote:

Anyone have any thoughts or rumors what next for RDU? New Delta destination? New airlines? NEw clubs? Just wondering if there are any rumors floating around..

I think that AA RDU-PHX and RDU-BOS will be announced in the next two years, and DL RDU-PIT if AA leaves. Also, knowing that Frontier just entered PVD, I could see them trying RDU-PVD to serve Boston sort of like how they use RDU-TTN to serve Philly/NJ/NYC.

As far as new airlines, I think that Spirit could do well here serving RDU-DTW.

hockyluv21 wrote:

ERJ170 wrote:

Anyone have any thoughts or rumors what next for RDU? New Delta destination? New airlines? NEw clubs? Just wondering if there are any rumors floating around..

I think that AA RDU-PHX and RDU-BOS will be announced in the next two years, and DL RDU-PIT if AA leaves. Also, knowing that Frontier just entered PVD, I could see them trying RDU-PVD to serve Boston sort of like how they use RDU-TTN to serve Philly/NJ/NYC.

As far as new airlines, I think that Spirit could do well here serving RDU-DTW.

I don't think AA has any interest in RDU-BOS. DL and B6 are already heavy on the route, and AA has *5* hubs they can logically route connections through (PHL, CLT, DCA, JFK, LGA). it would be all O&D too aside from the random BA connect a travel agent could string together, and with two carriers in the market, AA would be fighting for the lower end. I know they used to fly it, but BOS also used to be a bigger operation for them.

however, RDU-PHX I could totally see happening. lots of connections to California, LAS, etc on the other end that are pretty untapped. sure, plenty are served via DFW now, but AA has added a lot of service to various stations to give customers more connecting options (CLT service to many former LAA-only airports, ORD service to many former LUS-only airports), so I could see it happen.

the morning RDU-LAX frequency being a year round staple would be a start, though. or the 4th daily RDU-MIA that sneaks in there sometimes on an E75.

Not a rumor, but it still surprises me that DL still hasn't tried RDU-MSY again, at least on weekdays. G4 is only Thursday/Sunday and not operating in Aug/Sept and WN is Sunday only. I know they prefer to route via ATL, but it seems like they could command a premium and fill a regional jet without too much trouble.

AA won't start RDU-PHX again. The yields were too low and they state that DFW serves just about everything PHX offers. The same explanation was given for not starting AUS in terms of vicinity to DFW.

I think AA is tapped out as far as where else to go. BOS is the only logical choice but with no action yet and DL and B6 having the go to service... they probably just say we are good. Same for UA. WN is retrenching every time they put a schedule out. F9 seems to be willing to do some routes.. G4 is stagnant. DL is always the curve ball. AC doesn't appear to want to add YUL or YOW or anything... but hope spring eternal

Previous service.. that's the only reason

JetBlue adds adds a second RDU-FLL flight. What's interesting about the article is this:

"And it may not stop there, says Eytan Kurshan, manager of route planning for the New York airline. He says there has been “steady growth in demand for JetBlue” since debuting at RDU in 2006."

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/new ... yptr=yahoo

11725Flyer wrote:

JetBlue adds adds a second RDU-FLL flight. What's interesting about the article is this:

"And it may not stop there, says Eytan Kurshan, manager of route planning for the New York airline. He says there has been “steady growth in demand for JetBlue” since debuting at RDU in 2006."

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/new ... yptr=yahoo

A very needed addition. RDUAA has been pushing B6 hard to add SJU. Not sure it will happen with the second FLL flight though.

rajincajun01 wrote:

AA won't start RDU-PHX again. The yields were too low and they state that DFW serves just about everything PHX offers. The same explanation was given for not starting AUS in terms of vicinity to DFW.

Will Southwest add AUS-RDU nonstop service? Austin and Raleigh/Durham are both technology hubs, and there are business travelers in the Austin area that would prefer to fly Southwest to RDU if Southwest added nonstop service from AUS to RDU.

Depending on the time slots, that 2nd Jet Blue daily to FLL opens up a lot of cheap leisure travel options to Latin America. I don't know how many times I've seen super cheap fares, but the layover time was always unrealistic. I'm particularly interested in opening up realistic options to Campinas with Azul.

11725Flyer wrote:

JetBlue adds adds a second RDU-FLL flight. What's interesting about the article is this:

"And it may not stop there, says Eytan Kurshan, manager of route planning for the New York airline. He says there has been “steady growth in demand for JetBlue” since debuting at RDU in 2006."

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/new ... yptr=yahoo

Also, for those who don't have subscription access to this article -

For RDU officials, San Juan is one of five cities the airport wants to add to its list of destinations. Kurshan confirms JetBlue has spoken with RDU about San Juan, but cautions it’s not the airline’s next play in the Triangle. The next likely addition is another flight service to Boston “to provide additional schedules to customers,” he predicts, though he doesn’t offer a timeframe. Boston is RDU’s largest single market, according to the airport. A JetBlue nonstop service to Orlando, too, could be in the airline’s plans for RDU, Kurshan adds. “At some point we’d love to do San Juan, there’s just been some economic weaknesses in San Juan and we’d like to get past that,” he says

ww0985 wrote:

It looks as if Southwest will be ending its LAS nonstop after November 4th. Seems strange as the fight appeared to be doing well. Anyone know why?

This appears to be only temporary as I did dummy bookings and the earliest I got a direct/nonstop to LAS was December 27.

Will Southwest add nonstop service from RDU to OAK, SJC, LAX, SAN, and/or MCI? OAK, SJC, SAN, and MCI are currently without nonstop service from RDU. In addition, SJC is located in Silicon Valley and there are many business travelers who travel between SJC and RDU.

jplatts wrote:

Will Southwest add nonstop service from RDU to OAK, SJC, LAX, SAN, and/or MCI? OAK, SJC, SAN, and MCI are currently without nonstop service from RDU. In addition, SJC is located in Silicon Valley and there are many business travelers who travel between SJC and RDU.

Personally I wouldn't bet on it, because other than New Orleans (which is served on Fridays and Sundays), Southwest has been very stagnant on growth at RDU over the years. That being said, I could see all those as potential Southwest routes, but MCI and SAN would be the only ones that we would see anytime soon and I believe other carriers will get the ball rolling on those routes (DL on MCI, AS/VX or DL on SAN) before Southwest will.

Rafale9312 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Will Southwest add nonstop service from RDU to OAK, SJC, LAX, SAN, and/or MCI? OAK, SJC, SAN, and MCI are currently without nonstop service from RDU. In addition, SJC is located in Silicon Valley and there are many business travelers who travel between SJC and RDU.

Personally I wouldn't bet on it, because other than New Orleans (which is served on Fridays and Sundays), Southwest has been very stagnant on growth at RDU over the years. That being said, I could see all those as potential Southwest routes, but MCI and SAN would be the only ones that we would see anytime soon and I believe other carriers will get the ball rolling on those routes (DL on MCI, AS/VX or DL on SAN) before Southwest will.

In addition to the addition of RDU-MSY nonstop service, Southwest actually added ATL-RDU nonstop service on December 29, 2014 with the discontinuation of the AirTran brand and added DAL-RDU nonstop service back in August 2015.

jplatts wrote:

Rafale9312 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Will Southwest add nonstop service from RDU to OAK, SJC, LAX, SAN, and/or MCI? OAK, SJC, SAN, and MCI are currently without nonstop service from RDU. In addition, SJC is located in Silicon Valley and there are many business travelers who travel between SJC and RDU.

Personally I wouldn't bet on it, because other than New Orleans (which is served on Fridays and Sundays), Southwest has been very stagnant on growth at RDU over the years. That being said, I could see all those as potential Southwest routes, but MCI and SAN would be the only ones that we would see anytime soon and I believe other carriers will get the ball rolling on those routes (DL on MCI, AS/VX or DL on SAN) before Southwest will.

In addition to the addition of RDU-MSY nonstop service, Southwest actually added ATL-RDU nonstop service on December 29, 2014 with the discontinuation of the AirTran brand and added DAL-RDU nonstop service back in August 2015.

True, I always forget about those - I meant to emphasize about lack of Southwest growth since the 2008 recession other than adding ATL, DAL, HOU, MSY, and STL (can't remember if STL was pre-recession or after the market crash).

Agreed. WN has been stagnant.. any add comes with a subtraction... it's pretty much a wash... I would agree with Rafale on his guesses... I'm shocked! Shocked I say that SFO was added before another SEA but I guess that was VX and not AS. I would have thought AS would have grown by now...

jplatts wrote:

rajincajun01 wrote:

AA won't start RDU-PHX again. The yields were too low and they state that DFW serves just about everything PHX offers. The same explanation was given for not starting AUS in terms of vicinity to DFW.

Will Southwest add AUS-RDU nonstop service? Austin and Raleigh/Durham are both technology hubs, and there are business travelers in the Austin area that would prefer to fly Southwest to RDU if Southwest added nonstop service from AUS to RDU.

I would expect SAN on WN before AUS. DL just added daily to AUS and I don't believe there is enough demand for two carriers on the route.

Interesting JetBlue article about possible RDU expansion came up on Triangle Business Journal: http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/new ... nstop.html

They interviewed Eytan Kurshan, manager of route planning for JetBlue, and they are looking to expand their operations here. Apparently they want to increase frequencies to BOS and FLL (new RDU-FLL frequency coming in June) and eventually add RDU-MCO, as well. They are also reportedly considering RDU-SJU whenever the Puerto Rican economy bounces back from bankruptcy.

Another interesting tidbit: "William Swelbar, research engineer at the MIT International Center for Aviation, says capacity increases are a big deal – even for a market as connected as RDU. A recent study from his team ranked RDU as the best-connected medium-size airport." Pretty cool distinction, I must say.

Regarding RDU-SAN, a sentence or 2 of background. It appears that (according to 3Q16 DOT traffic figures, Table 6), RDU is certainly in the top 4 unserved (domestic) destinations from Lindbergh Field. (And that includes the #1 unserved destination, DCA, which cannot see nonstop service without another Beyond Perimeter hearing via Congress...) IND-SAN service will begin this summer, so TPA and RDU are essentially tied at #s2 & 3. (Interestingly, disregarding DCA & IND, the highest unserved market from SAN is currently the wildcard, ORF!)

I know there are incentives in place at SDIA for new domestic service -- not too unlike RDU's -- so I imagine we will see both RDU and TPA sooner rather than later. At the present time, AS and WN continue in a competitive skirmish to lead in the # of nonstop destinations from SAN -- currently WN stands at 26 and AS is at 21; by early 2018, WN will offer 30, and AAG will be up to 29! As of now, WN has occasionally slipped (MKE service apparently being dropped at the end of this summer) and offers 3 seasonal routes while AAG has dropped no routes from SAN in years, and offers only 2 seasonal (ski) routes.

If I had to guess, I'd say AS is more likely to jump on RDU first (the only service they offer at RDU right now is SEA and I expect a second route would be nice, and soon, and of course at some point at least PDX and SJC will also be added.) The RDU-SAN route would, IMO, comfortably support 1 daily nonstop (and it should be year-round) so I think the first to jump will have the route to themselves for a good while. I don't believe WN is as likely to make the first move and I would be very surprised to see DL do any sort of p-2-p flying from SAN. (WN has a focus operation in SAN but not in RDU while DL is just the opposite; but as we all know, anything can happen in modern aviation...)

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