BTVB6Flyer wrote:

Looks like the CVG-MIA-TPA-CVG route is sticking on Atlas

And what has happened on this route is a good indication, I think, of how complex the network is going to become.

It appears that instead of doing all the changes on one night, they are rolling them out this whole week, which may make administering the changes easier. This means that it's possible that what appears to be so in fact isn't so.

But a cursory look at this route shows how plane routing will be increasingly-divorced from shipping lanes, as I noted in an previous post. Whereas, initially things basically flowed out from a station and back to that station at the end of the circuit (i.e. ONT-CVG-ONT, or ONT-BWI-ONT), which is how FedEx and UPS do a lot of routes, because it's simple, Amazon has been slowly-increasing the complexity of the network, and I think that that complexity is about to explode.

For several months, Atlas has been covering SEA-CVG-SEA and TPA-CVG-TPA. Instead of the aircraft going out and back, the way those lanes were covered was for Atlas to run an aircraft SEA-CVG-TPA, and simultaneously an aircraft TPA-CVG-SEA. The cans were all unloaded at CVG, so the aircraft can go anywhere from CVG, but that's how the aircraft were scheduled to flow. So one aircraft would do GTI3021/3023 and the other GTI3022/3024.

But look how those routes are done yesterday and today: GTI has one aircraft go CVG-MIA-TPA-CVG, and another go SEA-CVG, but the CVG-SEA leg is covered by a new flight on ATI!! I haven't figured out all the aircraft flows yet (and I don't think they're complete yet), but that's pretty-cool.

BTVB6Flyer wrote:

Looks like the CVG-MIA-TPA-CVG route is sticking on Atlas

And it looks like the aircraft that used to go SEA-CVG-TPA now goes SEA-CVG-ONT, while a different aircraft goes CVG-MIA-TPA-CVG, with maintenance swap-outs at MIA. Interesting to see how the network adapts as it grows.

1373A did a long test flight last night at TLV. Hopefully it will be on its way home in a day or two, as Yochai mentioned.

Looks like Atlas was smart to have bought 1709A, because the two aircraft that should have been done by around now are a little behind. If 1373A gets out of TLV soon, it can be in service in about 2 weeks and thus help during Peak. But probably not 1399A, unless it's right behind 1373A. It will be interesting to see how long it takes IAI to finish 1399A. So 1709A (which is an Atlas aircraft painted white) can step in for now.

Really interesting points wjcandee. Amazon also has the advantage that they don't have excess capacity for every location every day. There might be some times where it makes sense for them to offload some packages to UPS or whomever.

Although CVG-MIA-TPA-CVG looks an awful lot like what we used to do with one of our ships when I worked at Chiquita it'd go Puerto Limón, Costa Rica->Gulfport, MS->Freeport, TX->Puerto Limón, Costa Rica. It made sense for use to cut our inland miles by stopping in Freeport, TX, instead of trucking it all from Gulfport, MS. Its essentially CVG-MIA and CVG-TPA all combined in one. I'd be really curious to know if there is freight that is loaded at MIA that is unloaded at TPA...

USAirKid: That's very interesting! Thanks for the observation!

1373 is on its way from TLV, perhaps direct to PSM.

Great picture of it by Yochai on the FAware page: https://www.flightradar24.com/GTI9321/f57a96e

Not sure it has been mentioned above but N370AA is going on a 6-year lease to Cargojet Airways as C-FCCJ with delivery from CAM imminently. It was rumoured to become N393CM. Cargojet also purchased a passenger 763 which will be converted to cargo with scheduled delivery in Q1-2018. Not sure which frame this is but given the delivery date, it should be in TLV/QPG/TPE by now.

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

Not sure it has been mentioned above but N370AA is going on a 6-year lease to Cargojet Airways as C-FCCJ with delivery from CAM imminently. It was rumoured to become N393CM. Cargojet also purchased a passenger 763 which will be converted to cargo with scheduled delivery in Q1-2018. Not sure which frame this is but given the delivery date, it should be in TLV/QPG/TPE by now.

Thank you for that info! Given that 370AA was transferred to ATSG's offshore aircraft ownership/leasing arm (ATSG West Leasing, Ltd.) , and the reregistration to 393CM was dropped, I was thinking maybe it was going to Okay Airways, although it's a bigger frame than they have taken to date. And try as I did, I couldn't get a photo of it post-painting while it has been hiding at ILN for 3 weeks. But now that we know where it's going, it makes complete sense why it was not painted at Dean Baldwin and was instead painted at Premier in RME (because Premier is a Canadian company, and RME is its US outpost).

You solved what was an irksome mystery to me! Thanks as always!

How may Amazon fit in with the speculation that Boeing may be selling some 767s to airlines that really want MOMs, and those 767s will, after ten years become freighters? It does seem to many of us that appropriate older 767s are getting fewer. And that some of the older passengers ones may be at the end of their usefulness. This is a guess, not a careful analysis.

An S7 Siberian Airlines Boeing 767-33A[ER] Registered as VP-BVH flew from Novosibirsk to Tel Aviv as S79992 could this be a ferry flight for a freighter conversion?

BOEING777EK wrote:

An S7 Siberian Airlines Boeing 767-33A[ER] Registered as VP-BVH flew from Novosibirsk to Tel Aviv as S79992 could this be a ferry flight for a freighter conversion?

Quite possible. SIberia/S7 did officially retire both of their 767-300ER a couple of weeks ago; both frames were leased.

Phosphorus wrote:

BOEING777EK wrote:

An S7 Siberian Airlines Boeing 767-33A[ER] Registered as VP-BVH flew from Novosibirsk to Tel Aviv as S79992 could this be a ferry flight for a freighter conversion?

Quite possible. SIberia/S7 did officially retire both of their 767-300ER a couple of weeks ago; both frames were leased.

The question is now, who is the customer. Much too new of a build for Amazon, they wouldn't know what to do if they had such a spring chicken on their hands.

Spacepope wrote:

Phosphorus wrote:

BOEING777EK wrote:

An S7 Siberian Airlines Boeing 767-33A[ER] Registered as VP-BVH flew from Novosibirsk to Tel Aviv as S79992 could this be a ferry flight for a freighter conversion?

Quite possible. SIberia/S7 did officially retire both of their 767-300ER a couple of weeks ago; both frames were leased.

The question is now, who is the customer. Much too new of a build for Amazon, they wouldn't know what to do if they had such a spring chicken on their hands.

This will become N1439A operated by Atlas for Amazon.

Spacepope wrote:

The question is now, who is the customer. Much too new of a build for Amazon, they wouldn't know what to do if they had such a spring chicken on their hands.

You're funny! I think your view is colored by the AA aircraft. Actually, there are a number of frames that are within a year or two of VP-BVH's 20.8 years (according to planespotters.net).

But you're right, she isn't 21 yet, and that's a big milestone for any young person...

Another tune in the dance of contract negotiations

It's interesting to see how Atlas's procurement/processing of Prime Air aircraft seems to have slowed. Maybe it's just an impression, but it is interesting to me to watch CAM pounding away on converting 767s and placing them with other customers (now that the ATSG Prime Air fleet is complete), while Atlas seems to be moving haltingly on its planned deliveries. Again, probably just an impression, but:

ATSG recent activity:
Converted 370AA and placed it with CargoJet as C-FCCJ
Converted 368AA and placed it with Amerijet as N396CM
Converted 382AN and placed it with Northern Aviation (Aloha Cargo as N399CM), operated for now by ATI
Sent 372AA to TLV on 7/7 (so due say January), to be 379CX
Sent 7375A to TLV on 9/1 (so due say March). Aircraft is going to a known customer.
Sent 387AM to TLV on 9/27 (so due say March)
Took 376AN to ILN; soon to go to TLV (so due say May)
Will likely be taking 374AA
Will be taking 377AN from ROW soon-ish for conversion at TLV. Aircraft is going to a known customer.
(Two of these, other than the ones I identified as going to a "known customer", will be going to Northern Aviation.)

Atlas recent activity:
Has 1373A almost done with paint at VCV.
Has 1399A nearing completion at TLV (been there since 5/8)
Sent 1427A to TPE for conversion as of 10/1 -- due say Feb/Mar/Apr 2018
Sent 1439A to TLV for conversion as of 10/26 -- due say May 2018
Acquired 1409A, which has been stored since 5/3.

And that's it, as far as I know.
This means that they have 10 a/c delivered to Prime Air, plus one in paint, one nearing competion, and only 2 more to arrive between now and May.

So, with 1409A the only remaining known stored feedstock, this leaves five more aircraft even to confirm as sourced as feedstock. This compares to even 9-12 months ago, when Atlas had a lot of already-acquired aircraft lined up and waiting for slots. You could look out 7 or 8 months and know which aircraft would be moving next through the cycle.

But as we sit here today, there are 5 aircraft that are as-yet identified (at least to me) that Atlas has said will be acquired, converted, painted, moved onto their certificate and delivered in 2018. It's doable, certainly, but progress seems to have slowed at the same time that ATSG seems to be blowing and going for their non-Amazon customers.

N376AN scheduled for delivery to IAI Bedek on Thursday, should leave ILN tomorrow afternoon for TLV

Is it known when 377AN is going to ILN?

Some new movement today and ongoing at TPA.

1x Atlas 4029 CVG-TPA (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI4 ... /KCVG/KTPA), replaced ABX3413.

MIA-TPA stayed the same.

1x Atlas 3503 TPA-DFW and departing 12am (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI3 ... /KTPA/KDFW), ATN was flying this.

Will have to see what tonight brings, if SMF-TPA flies and where it will head to after TPA?

yochai wrote:

N376AN scheduled for delivery to IAI Bedek on Thursday, should leave ILN tomorrow afternoon for TLV

Awesome! And the ex-AA conversions keep on rolling for ATSG...

And here's the photo of the 767 which is painted in Aloha colours N399CM https://www.facebook.com/AlohaAirCargo/ ... 5862629800

Today for TPA (so far):

BWI-TPA GTI 763
ONT-TPA GTI 763
TPA -CVG GTI 763
TPA-SKF GTI 763
CVG-TPA GTI 763
MIA-TPA GTI 763 (x2)

again this is so far, some of these coming in will have to depart tonight/early tomorrow morning presumably.

Strange new night at ONT, we had only 5 departures, 2 GTI and 3 ATN. The 5 destinations were DFW, BWI, TPA, RFD and ABE. TPA and BWI are new for ONT but DFW again after a few months of SKF? We did not have any runs to CVG when we usually have 2 flights a day. ATN3741 SCK-ONT also did not operate. Are these going to be new changes?

By tomorrow night, we should see all the changes that will establish the Peak network, I think. Looks like they are phasing it in slowly the way they did at the beginning of November. Because the CVG sort is effectively fall, I'm not surprised to see a bunch of point to point flights.

FX1816 wrote:

Strange new night at ONT, we had only 5 departures, 2 GTI and 3 ATN. The 5 destinations were DFW, BWI, TPA, RFD and ABE. TPA and BWI are new for ONT but DFW again after a few months of SKF? We did not have any runs to CVG when we usually have 2 flights a day. ATN3741 SCK-ONT also did not operate. Are these going to be new changes?

So ONT should have at least 7 destinations (possibly 8), at least as I have diagrammed the network so far: RFD and CVG (ABX 762); ABE, DFW and CLT (ATI 762); TPA and BWI (GTI 763), plus one additional flight on an ATI 763 (unless the 763 that's there is the usual hot spare).

The way the network has been redesigned for Peak, particularly because CVG can't handle any more volume, is that there will be many point-to-point flights, a lot of which will be taking place during hours where the aircraft used to sit idle, and the destinations from an origin like ONT aren't necessarily going to be the direct origin for the path that gets them back to ONT. In other words, fewer out-and-backs.

So ONT actually will be busy.

DFW and RFD look like they will be increasing significantly. I don't have visibility into the ABX component yet, as many of its new routes have just begun as of Thursday night. So I don't have the total numbers for these two growing stations.

Regarding RFD: it looks like ABX will have at least two (maybe 3) RFD stops, and it looks like ATI will have five (3 on 767-300s and 2 on 767-200s). RFD has been pushing for more volume -- well, now they've got it and I will be interested to see how well they handle it.

I'm looking at the ATI 767-300 routes, and I'm seeing a lot of stops per day for each. I assume the 767-200s will similarly be well-engaged. And I don't yet have the full picture.

And 376AN is on its way, on 11/9/17, to TLV for conversion.

Amazon Prime Air (Atlas Air) has recently acquired an Ex EuroAtlantic Boeing 767-383[ER] LN 257 registered as CS-TLO to be reregistered as N1511A and it's a Boeing 767 with the PW4000 power plant.

BOEING777EK wrote:

Amazon Prime Air (Atlas Air) has recently acquired an Ex EuroAtlantic Boeing 767-383[ER] LN 257 registered as CS-TLO to be reregistered as N1511A and it's a Boeing 767 with the PW4000 power plant.

Good catch! This aircraft is now in TLV, as of 10/26 (the same day that N1439A also arrived there).

Atlas's aircraft-pickers obviously know what they're doing (well, I assume so at least), but it continues to amaze me how Atlas finds aircraft cast off by the flag carriers of Faministan and puts them to new use. There is more ex-Qantas and ex-AA metal -- albeit older -- on the ATSG side of things, and it will be interesting to see if either pool turns out to be more-reliable in the long run.

By my count, Atlas needs 4 more frames as feedstock to get to 20 Prime Air 767-300s.

If Atlas is willing to use aircraft with PW4000s, then some of the Delta retirements may look more attractive.

wjcandee wrote:

BOEING777EK wrote:

Amazon Prime Air (Atlas Air) has recently acquired an Ex EuroAtlantic Boeing 767-383[ER] LN 257 registered as CS-TLO to be reregistered as N1511A and it's a Boeing 767 with the PW4000 power plant.

Good catch! This aircraft is now in TLV, as of 10/26 (the same day that N1439A also arrived there).

Atlas's aircraft-pickers obviously know what they're doing (well, I assume so at least), but it continues to amaze me how Atlas finds aircraft cast off by the flag carriers of Faministan and puts them to new use. There is more ex-Qantas and ex-AA metal -- albeit older -- on the ATSG side of things, and it will be interesting to see if either pool turns out to be more-reliable in the long run.

By my count, Atlas needs 4 more frames as feedstock to get to 20 Prime Air 767-300s.

If Atlas is willing to use aircraft with PW4000s, then some of the Delta retirements may look more attractive.

Well, I know when I was saying the ex-AA frames were too old for reasonable conversion, I was wrong, but in this case the DL birds are an even worse choice and I seriously doubt they'll be used for anything but parts. Reasoning: The non-ER 763s upon retirement don't have high hours (N140LL for example had 80,000 hours and 30,000 cycles earlier this year) but a non-ER isn't suitable for conversion so off to SBD it goes for scrapping/parts recovery). DL's olders -ER frames are the highest-houred 767s in existence right now. last year N171DN had 121,000 hours on it (so probably pushing 125000 by now). DL was a good sourse for ATSG's 762 fleet, but appear to be an end-user of the 763s and when they are done with them, they are really done.

UA's fleet is a touch younger on the whole but you're still looking at aircraft with 110,000 hours on them now. UPS is buying the newer JAL frames, the older ones beat up on domestic runs are going straight to the breakers (same with ANA, just look at the cycle counts on the ex-ANA aircraft in ATSG's current fleet- yowza). The options from first-tier airlines are drying up, and your observations of Atlas buying onsie-twosie frames from just about anywhere is right on for a reason.

I will admit, I am impressed how well the fleet is holding up so far, but surge is right around the corner so things could get interesting, especially if ABX decides to sit it out a second year in a row.

N661GT, one of five Atlas pax 763s, is now in QPG for conversion. I believe it will be N1013A.

N1399A has significant delays in TLV, and will be delivered in late 2018.

In addition to those two and N1409A, N1427A, and N1439A, there are five more 767s lined up for acquisition and conversion in 2018, the last two of which will have the PW4000 power plant.

My guess for feed stock would be to look at where the first dozen Atlas Amazon aircraft have come from: places like Condor, Thomas Cook, S7, and Euro Atlantic.

We were talking about utilization going up over Peak, where many aircraft were not going to just do out-and-backs to CVG. As one example of the increased utilization, we can look at N337AZ, a 767-300 flown by ATI.

From 6AM EST Friday to 8AM EST Saturday, it flew PHX-ABE-PDX-SEA-PHX-ABE. Five segments, with a total time in the air of just under 16 hours in a 26 hour period.

Or even little 739AX, a 767-200 delivered to Delta in 1982 and now flying for ATI. 35 years old. She underwent an aft pressure bulkhead replacement and other heavy work over several months at ILN following a lease return before coming back into service for Amazon, but still. From 1:24PM Friday to 9:22AM Saturday (both EST), she ran CVG-SEA-ABE-ONT, three segments and just over 14 hours in the air out of a period of 20 hours.

Not all airlines and aircraft are getting this kind of workout, but it's a big boost over an out-and-back from CVG-ONT, for example.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

How may Amazon fit in with the speculation that Boeing may be selling some 767s to airlines that really want MOMs, and those 767s will, after ten years become freighters? It does seem to many of us that appropriate older 767s are getting fewer. And that some of the older passengers ones may be at the end of their usefulness. This is a guess, not a careful analysis.

I'm not sure Amazon would contractually obligate themselves to buying the freighters. They would want them cheap at market rates.

I do think that if Amazon goes to multiple sorts per day, they will buy new freighters. As of now though, with the shared DHL facility, they will be held to one sort per day and thus only used 767s make sense due to the amount of ground time (which gives time to work on old airframes and one isn't paying for an expensive asset that just sits if the airframe was bought used).

Lightsaber

The last two posts are interesting to me as they seem to talk around each other. Lightsaber has a good analysis of when simply hubbing at CVG, new airframes won't be wise, yet Wjcandee shows how you can get utilization rates that warrant new build aircraft by doing routes that bypass the CVG sort completely. 14-16 hours a day for a domestic freighter is pretty impressive.

WJ for N739AX:: Last report I could find was from April of this year, she had a little over 90,000 hours and 43,000 cycles on her. Very well used frame, and it's amazing she is pushed back up in the air so reliably.

I flew 739 for the first time recently and was pretty surprised to see how clean the logbook was. Hardly any recent write-ups and what entries there were were pretty small things. Indeed pretty impressive for such a “seasoned” airframe.

wjcandee has his finger on the pulse of Amazon. His posts show how the company is operating and getting past the 1 sort a day at CVG. They are effectively bypassing the hub and using their outstations more effectively.

This is probably the most interesting post series to read on this forum. It covers the main company, carriers involved, airports involved, internal company logistics, aircraft purchases, conversions and usage patterns/rates. Heck, it even provides information on the ever blossoming 767 fleet outside of Amazon with other carriers.

The info on the 767s is outstanding. It is showing us what well maintained airframes can do at any age and re-writing our thoughts on whether a 30+ year old airframe can find a second life at a cargo carrier.

What great posts the last four are. To me, the wealth and breadth of knowledge expressed in them typifies the best of A.net. SO INTERESTING!

Agree with Lightsaber that at high daily year-round utilization rates, some newer aircraft are in order. Most scheduled cargo carriers have some routes that involve high utilization, on which they use new(er) aircraft for the reliability, and some routes that have much-lower utilization, on which they place their older aircraft. So they have a mix. (Some charter carriers do the same thing: a mix of aircraft, newer ones to handle the long-term-contract high-utilization ACMI business, and older to handle ad-hoc.) As the Amazon flying moves to a mix, it is conceivable that so will the aircraft.

There's a little complexity here, though. I wonder to what extent the very-high-utilization flying will continue after Peak. Certainly, Prime Air is going to continue to grow and expand, but to what extent will these aircraft be utilized other than at Peak? (Maybe put another way, is Prime Air expected to provide essentially surge capacity during Peak?) If you have aircraft that are used 6-8 hours per day during 10 months a year, but 16 hours per day 2 months per year, what's the optimal fleet mix? It's an interesting question. FedEx used to maintain certain old aircraft in low-utilization, semi-mothballed status most of the year, and put them into heavy-ish use during Peak; not sure if that's in Amazon's playbook.

Spacepope, I'm always impressed about the aircraft background info you have at your fingertips! I remember you mentioning those hours back in April. Significant! Interesting to see from Acey's observations that it's operating smoothly. I think that there was a lot of work other than the aft bulkhead done in the many months that 739 spent at ILN. Maybe that paid off!

CX747: you made my day!!!! Sometimes, a.net is not a fun place to participate, but this particular thread has been so focused and fact-driven and generally-polite, it's a happy place.

And N1373A finally made it out of paint and to MIA on 11/12/17 at 10:45pm. We will see how long it takes to get it into service, as it's needed and has some flights planned for it.

Meanwhile, 1381, the conversion prior to that, seems to have had a number of hiccups, but is slowly working its way into the Peak network, albeit with significant downtimes between some flights. It's basically just doing CVG-SCK round-trips.

Looks like 1709A, which is an Atlas aircraft that can be used by Atlas for DHL, Amazon and other stuff, is working primarily on the Peak network these days, apparently because of the aircraft situation.

CallMeJB's post above about 1399A is concerning. It has been in TLV since May, and so in the ordinary course would have been expected to be completed by now, but apparently won't be available until late 2018. So Atlas/Amazon will have to adapt to that failure. I am a little confused about his expectation of 5 more aircraft purchased. I count a need for three airframes beyond the ones that I know about, to bring the Prime Air fleet at Amazon to 20 (not counting 1709A because it's an Atlas-owned aircraft not leased to Amazon). It's probably just a counting error on my part. I count 11 completed, plus 5 in conversion right now, and one more awaiting conversion. (1399, 1427, 1439, 1511, and 661GT in conversion; 1409A awaiting conversion slot.) That brings the total known to 17, so three left.

One other thing that interests me: 395CM has a very-pretty paint job, and it's flying in the US and all over the world, and yet the main photo databases yet to have a post-paint photo of it.

wjcandee wrote:

CallMeJB's post above about 1399A is concerning. It has been in TLV since May, and so in the ordinary course would have been expected to be completed by now, but apparently won't be available until late 2018. So Atlas/Amazon will have to adapt to that failure. I am a little confused about his expectation of 5 more aircraft purchased. I count a need for three airframes beyond the ones that I know about, to bring the Prime Air fleet at Amazon to 20 (not counting 1709A because it's an Atlas-owned aircraft not leased to Amazon). It's probably just a counting error on my part. I count 11 completed, plus 5 in conversion right now, and one more awaiting conversion. (1399, 1427, 1439, 1511, and 661GT in conversion; 1409A awaiting conversion slot.) That brings the total known to 17, so three left.

Good observation. I was counting 1511 as one of the "five more acquisitions". There is some confusion about how many 767s Atlas is acquiring. The original '20 for Amazon' was augmented by the addition of 1709, to make a total of 21 conversions. But now it looks like the total will be 22 conversions. I am not sure if that extra airframe will be Amazon or like 1709, Atlas owned.

So, there are four tail numbers beyond the ones that you know about that are in line for conversion for Atlas in 2018.

In other news, I think the daily routings of 1409 and 1181 have been cool: TPA-BWI-IAH-CVG-TPA, and the other IAH-BWI-TPA-CVG-IAH. They are splitting the flights, but essentially there is a TPA-BWI-TPA and IAH-BWI-IAH every night, and TPA-CVG-TPA and IAH-CVG-IAH every day. These two aircraft are flying a double-sort schedule every day, with BWI acting as a 'sort'. I don't think BWI is actually running a sort, rather they are just feeding warehouses on the eastern seaboard. But the aircraft utilization is as if there is a double-sort. They sit in CVG for 4 hours each day at the sort, and at the outstation 5 hours after that, otherwise they are flying all day.

CallmeJB wrote:

N661GT, one of five Atlas pax 763s, is now in QPG for conversion. I believe it will be N1013A.

N1399A has significant delays in TLV, and will be delivered in late 2018.

.

Are you sure we are not talking late 2017? late 2018 is a year from now, which is double the standard time for a heavy check and full conversion per aircraft.

yochai wrote:

CallmeJB wrote:

N661GT, one of five Atlas pax 763s, is now in QPG for conversion. I believe it will be N1013A.

N1399A has significant delays in TLV, and will be delivered in late 2018.

.

Are you sure we are not talking late 2017? late 2018 is a year from now, which is double the standard time for a heavy check and full conversion per aircraft.

I was curious of the same thing. It's either a typo on the delivery year or the airframe has some severe structural or corrosion issues.

yochai wrote:

CallmeJB wrote:

N661GT, one of five Atlas pax 763s, is now in QPG for conversion. I believe it will be N1013A.

N1399A has significant delays in TLV, and will be delivered in late 2018.

.

Are you sure we are not talking late 2017? late 2018 is a year from now, which is double the standard time for a heavy check and full conversion per aircraft.

Sounds like a need for a little sleuthing there at TLV, my friend. I have confidence in you to get to the truth!

Atlas Air sent one of its passenger 763s to QPG on Nov 1st (N661GT, LN 775). This could be well be for cargo conversion (as it could also be for maintenance).

ABQ new station?

Seeing ATN coming in from DFW off to SMF tonight.

BTVB6Flyer wrote:

ABQ new station?

Seeing ATN coming in from DFW off to SMF tonight.

Looks like it might have been a diversion:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ATN3860/history/20171114/0826Z/KDFW/KABQ

cvgComair wrote:

BTVB6Flyer wrote:

ABQ new station?

Seeing ATN coming in from DFW off to SMF tonight.

Looks like it might have been a diversion:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ATN3860/history/20171114/0826Z/KDFW/KABQ

Good catch! Missed that when looking at Flightaware, I guess would maybe explain why it may have parked at a ABQ gate per A.net thread if medical.

I listened to the LiveATC. Initially, you can hear the Center side only, and this continues until about 15 minutes before landing; shortly after switching to Approach you can begin to hear the crew. So I couldn't hear their initial description of the issue. The crew is terse in their transmissions when you do hear them; unclear whether that's just the pilot's style or whether he is stressed. They do say that the do not need fire services. Early on, when you can only hear the Center side, they are asked about SOB and Fuel, so that information wasn't recorded. Interestingly, they are asked by Center some time after that whether they are experiencing symptoms of hypoxia or CO poisoning. From the controller's response, it appeared that the answer was no. They are given vectors calmly and these are not aggressive, as might be the case with a medical. So an EWAG is that this is some kind of mechanical that doesn't involve fire or a concern that would otherwise require the equipment.

This is reinforced by the fact that, after landing, they indicate that they would like to taxi somewhere where they could hold for a while and call the Company for instructions on what to do (i.e. what arrangements can be made for parking, etc.)

It's the 0930Z KABQ archive for 11/14/17 if anyone is interested.

Further to the previous post, in an earlier archive, you hear the Center side of a discussion about the nearest airport being Las Vegas (New Mexico -- KLVS) and high terrain being in the route if they continue straight ahead. They are then told to descend to FL150 and go direct ABQ (which means turning Southwest). Looks like they had come down pretty fast from FL340.

On the speculation side - If/when Amazon drastically expands flight ops and transitions into the need for a second sort, do they move back to ILN where they can monopolize the hub operation? Or did ILN burn their bridge meaning Amazon may look completely elsewhere, like LCK? Does ABE have room for a huge expansion to a hub operation?

HPRamper wrote:

On the speculation side - If/when Amazon drastically expands flight ops and transitions into the need for a second sort, do they move back to ILN where they can monopolize the hub operation? Or did ILN burn their bridge meaning Amazon may look completely elsewhere, like LCK? Does ABE have room for a huge expansion to a hub operation?

Well, Amazon did sign an agreement with CVG to build a large facility there that would involve their own sorting building and parking for up to 100 aircraft, so I think that ship has sailed for the ILN folks. After committing to CVG, Amazon then did an agreement with DHL so they would have at least the ability to do one daily sort there. And, as you probably read, they've already maxed out the ability of DHL to sort their packages. So the peak-period flights are circuitous point-to-point flights, and the current schedule is pretty amazing!

I think that ABE is a very-important origin-destination location, which should expand its catchment area in the Amazon network, IF it can provide sufficient facilities. Fact is, it was a huge deal to add a space or two of aircraft parking there; hard to see them being imaginative enough to devote the dollars to significant facility expansion. However, the airport board's eyes have to be opened by Amazon sending a bunch of flights to BWI that could have been theirs, and by the way Amazon handled ILN and SCK. You snooze, you lose.

I think the big story that nobody has covered is RFD. There are a lot of flights in the holiday network going through RFD, and it will be interesting to see how they fare. If all goes smoothly, it makes sense that they have secured Amazon for that area of the country, even with maxed-out CVG not that far away. If there are issues, then presumably other airports in the region will get a second look.