When Chuck Schumer rails against seat sizes, he needs this kind of ammunition.
http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/sto...6fe7b1441a7476/US--United-Airlines
"Under doctor's orders, he's only flown on private planes following the transplant, avoiding all commercial jets, including those of his own airline.
Munoz says he tours enough planes on the ground and sees employees in action and that the flight restriction will be lifted in a few weeks."
I hope us average people don't need to travel for a living if we have a heart transplant, because flying private is not accessible to most of us. I could understand if a doctor said you can't fly because of the stresses on the body, but those same stresses exist on private jets.
So what is so unhealthy for him about flying commercial that is considered "safe and healthy" enough for the rest of us? Perhaps he should consider this fact before adding an extra seat to each row of the 777's or cutting seat pitch to 30"...
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
Old news. Was announced months ago he was unable to fly commercial.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
One's immune system is delicate following an organ transplant. Close the thread.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting cosyr (Thread starter): So what is so unhealthy for him about flying commercial that is considered "safe and healthy" enough for the rest of us? Perhaps he should consider this fact before adding an extra seat to each row of the 777's or cutting seat pitch to 30"... |
I would presume it's the increased risk of a bug or infection of some sort picked up while been in close proximity to a large amount of people for an extended duration during a time when his immune system is not at its peak due to the transplant.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
I am not sure why he is only allowed to fly private vs. commercial, but I'll gladly give him a pass on this one. He seems to be a great leader who is trying hard to invest in the company and, more importantly, in the employees. If he has to fly privately at this time, then so be it. Now, Jeff Smisek on the other hand......
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
I know of at least one a.netter that saw him on a UA flight this week.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
My son had a heart transplant when he was 2 months old (he is now 4.5 years old). For this reason, and because I am an avgeek, I have been following the Munoz story closely. I do wish we had the luxury of private air travel when he was immediately post-transplant.
It should be noted that initially, transplant patients take high doses of immunosuppressants. For instance, the target levels for tacrolimus might be 12-16 ng/mL, but after several years, might be 6-8 ng/mL or lower. The higher doses are necessary to prevent rejection during the early (sensitive) stages, but also make you very prone to getting ill. After your transplant team is confident that you are stabilized, they will lower your target level. This is to make it easier for your immune system to stave off illnesses. However, you must still maintain a minimum level to prevent rejection. Presumably, at some point after target levels have been lowered, his transplant team will feel comfortable in letting him travel with the masses (and I know many transplant patients who do.)
* Note: I am the father of a transplant patient, but am also on a couple of committees for UNOS, which is the quasi-governmental agency that coordinates almost all transplants in the US.
[Edited 2016-06-02 08:48:20]
It should be noted that initially, transplant patients take high doses of immunosuppressants. For instance, the target levels for tacrolimus might be 12-16 ng/mL, but after several years, might be 6-8 ng/mL or lower. The higher doses are necessary to prevent rejection during the early (sensitive) stages, but also make you very prone to getting ill. After your transplant team is confident that you are stabilized, they will lower your target level. This is to make it easier for your immune system to stave off illnesses. However, you must still maintain a minimum level to prevent rejection. Presumably, at some point after target levels have been lowered, his transplant team will feel comfortable in letting him travel with the masses (and I know many transplant patients who do.)
* Note: I am the father of a transplant patient, but am also on a couple of committees for UNOS, which is the quasi-governmental agency that coordinates almost all transplants in the US.
[Edited 2016-06-02 08:48:20]
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
the man had a heart transplant !! So he should possibly catch a virus and DIE just so you'll feel better?? YGBSM!!
Heck!! That he's able to function at all is pretty cool. If his Doctor told him that?
Then he'd damn sure BETTER do what he/she said!!
Heck!! That he's able to function at all is pretty cool. If his Doctor told him that?
Then he'd damn sure BETTER do what he/she said!!
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting cosyr (Thread starter): "Under doctor's orders, he's only flown on private planes following the transplant, avoiding all commercial jets, including those of his own airline. |
I'd be surprised a normal doctor would ever make such a recommendation. Maybe the Kardassian's doctor would.
Who is paying for the cost? The insurance policy or the sharehlders. The latter I suspect.
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- rnav2dlrey
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RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting enilria (Reply 9): I'd be surprised a normal doctor would ever make such a recommendation. Maybe the Kardassian's doctor would. |
Normal doctors would simply recommend avoiding air travel as a blanket thing - when you are rich enough, you can then ask "why?" and offer suggestions as to work arounds if absolutely necessary (flying private where there isn't the same likelihood of infection - same as not taking the bus, but rather taking the car).
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
I wouldn't be surprised if the reason is that his immune system is being pharmacologically suppressed to prevent rejection of the transplant. I myself would never fly with a known compromised immune system, because even the newest planes with better air filtration systems can't protect you from all the constantly produced germs flying around the cabin before they get sucked through the filter.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting enilria (Reply 9): I'd be surprised a normal doctor would ever make such a recommendation |
He doesn't have a normal job. He could have just sat back in Chicago and waited until his heart was healthy. Most of the employees know he comes to visit on a private jet. They understand and appreciate the visits.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting enilria (Reply 9): I'd be surprised a normal doctor would ever make such a recommendation. Maybe the Kardassian's doctor would. |
| Quoting moo (Reply 12): Normal doctors would simply recommend avoiding air travel as a blanket thing - when you are rich enough, you can then ask "why?" and offer suggestions as to work arounds if absolutely necessary (flying private where there isn't the same likelihood of infection - same as not taking the bus, but rather taking the car). |
This is exactly right. Unnecessary travel (of any sort, but air in particular) is discouraged initially. In particular, if you don't live near your transplant center, you are encouraged to relocate, at least temporarily, to be nearby. This is not only to avoid air travel, but early on, transplant patients have extremely frequent exams (as often as every couple of days), but they also run the highest risk of infections or other non-infectious complications, and may need to see their center frequently.
Here in Chicago, we have a couple of world-class transplant centers for adults, and I believe Mr. Munoz goes to one of them, Northwestern, so he does not have to travel for that reason.
[Edited 2016-06-02 09:04:30]
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
OK. Haters gotta hate and ainters gotta aint. When you have a transplant, your immune system is suppressed by high doses of immunosuppressant drugs that are eventually titrated to lower levels. Due to the risk of infections, recent transplant recipients are told to avoid public places and crowds during the period shortly after the transplant. Most recent recipients are advised against air travel if at all possible. Mr. Munoz has made a remarkable recovery to date, returning to work much sooner than most recipients would. If he has to travel for business, it is reasonable for his travel to be by private plane. Many transplant recipients would have retired or taken much less stressful employment.
Mr. Munoz should be praised for his devotion to United Airlines, its employees and customers. Knock off your ignorant and hateful whining.
Mr. Munoz should be praised for his devotion to United Airlines, its employees and customers. Knock off your ignorant and hateful whining.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting nikeherc (Reply 17): Mr. Munoz should be praised for his devotion to United Airlines, its employees and customers. |
I am a huge fan of Munoz. I didn't mean this to be a criticism of him, but that I thought a doctor was saying the physical constraints of any commercial plane was unhealthy. I wasn't thinking about the immune system issue.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting moo (Reply 12): Normal doctors would simply recommend avoiding air travel as a blanket thing - when you are rich enough, you can then ask "why?" and offer suggestions as to work arounds if absolutely necessary (flying private where there isn't the same likelihood of infection - same as not taking the bus, but rather taking the car). |
| Quoting N328KF (Reply 15): In particular, if you don't live near your transplant center, you are encouraged to relocate, at least temporarily, to be nearby. |
My point is not that it isn't SAFER to travel in a private jet in terms of health issues, my point is that normal people would not be given this advice. It's also safer to travel in a 2016 Audi than a 1982 Honda Civic, but most doctors would not inform patients that their employer needs to provide one for health reasons.
CONCLUSIONS:
Traveling after HTX appears to be safe and favorably improves quality of life, if certain precautions are met.
https://myheartsisters.org/2010/08/18/heart-patients-air-travel/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12099984
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting enilria (Reply 21): my point is that normal people would not be given this advice. |
I would guess the same principle applies to the legal profession, if you are wealthy you can afford a good lawyer so fight and plead not guilty, if you are poor, accept the best plea deal that the prosecution offers and do some jail time, its all relative.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting cosyr (Thread starter): I hope us average people .... |
Sorry to hear that you consider yourself average. That must be depressing.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting enilria (Reply 21): My point is not that it isn't SAFER to travel in a private jet in terms of health issues, my point is that normal people would not be given this advice. |
Yes they would. Along with advice not to travel by bus, train, taxi or any other means of public transportation. They would also be advised to avoid many other activities where they may come in contact with large numbers of people in a confined space. A compromised immune system can easily result in death or at least severe complications from otherwise common germs, illnesses etc.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting enilria (Reply 21): My point is not that it isn't SAFER to travel in a private jet in terms of health issues, my point is that normal people would not be given this advice. It's also safer to travel in a 2016 Audi than a 1982 Honda Civic, but most doctors would not inform patients that their employer needs to provide one for health reasons. |
Most would be told not to fly and to avoid locations with close contact with people. Most people aren't CEOs of multibillion dollar corporations who can't avoid those types of situations. END
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting cosyr (Reply 18): but that I thought a doctor was saying the physical constraints of any commercial plane was unhealthy. |
There is actually one point where it is, for the first couple of months after heart surgery travel is pretty much not allowed, until the rib cage is healed it's the back seat of cars only, no planes or trains and even then it's limited to DR/hospital and home.
| Quoting enilria (Reply 21): My point is not that it isn't SAFER to travel in a private jet in terms of health issues, my point is that normal people would not be given this advice. It's also safer to travel in a 2016 Audi than a 1982 Honda Civic, but most doctors would not inform patients that their employer needs to provide one for health reasons. |
Of course it's safer from a germ point of view, less people means less chance of running into people carrying a bug.
Whether you like it or not, the man happens to be CEO of a company with $38B in revenue and operations spanning the globe, he is going to get a little bit of special treatment no matter what we think, it's the same in every industry.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
I agree with some earlier posts, please close this thread. The man has returned to work only a few months after a transplant. His condition has to be delicate and who are we to be judging what he should or should not be doing. Lets just wish him the best and leave medical life up to him and his doctors.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting enilria (Reply 21): My point is not that it isn't SAFER to travel in a private jet in terms of health issues, my point is that normal people would not be given this advice. |
Of course they would be told not to travel by airline. This isn't a permanent thing - there are lots of people with transplants who travel on the airlines all the time, but initially after the transplant the immunosuppressant levels are high, and it just makes sense to avoid crowds for the time being. Eventually his dosages will go down, and at that point he will be able to travel on his airline again. This is all perfectly normal.
-Mir
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 26): until the rib cage is healed it's the back seat of cars only, no planes or trains and even then it's limited to DR/hospital and home. |
That advice applies to anyone who has had major chest surgery including bypass. Most people who have heart transplants don't return to normal jobs. Being CEO of a major airline is not a normal job, but 10 or 12 normal jobs combined.
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- jetmatt777
- Posts: 4970
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RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
Even if the company is paying for it, it is money well spent. Munoz seems to be the leader UA needs right now, and any investment to make his job easier and healthier with his delicate health condition is well worth the price.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
Doesn't UA have a couple private jets anyway?
Seems logical a $40B company would have a couple no matter their business.
Seems logical a $40B company would have a couple no matter their business.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
Worst now, is maybe long TSA lines!!! LOL
g77
g77
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
Good grief. Normal people would just avoid air travel when undergoing the same recovery he is. But he can't do that and run the company. Hands-on management, and being present in person for important events, is important in general and particularly important to his style. Given how much difference in the financial results his decisions can make, it is absolutely worth it to the company to provide him with a few business-jet charter flights when necessary.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
This is silly....close the thread!
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
The average transplant person is not a CEO of a large commercial airline that is also new to the job. He needs to get back in the grove, visiting stations and employees. We have members posting very real reasons to avoid A LOT of commercial travel.
I would think the average person is given various restrictions. Oscar could have bailed on his contract but he, his medical team and the board all gave a thumbs up.
This makes very good sense. It's much easier to implement infection control on a small, private aircraft versus one on a turn.
I would think the average person is given various restrictions. Oscar could have bailed on his contract but he, his medical team and the board all gave a thumbs up.
This makes very good sense. It's much easier to implement infection control on a small, private aircraft versus one on a turn.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting N505fx (Reply 38): Why would you question the medical advice of doctors to a CEO of a fortune 500 company? I think you just weren't thinking. |
That's a bit unfair, and frankly, rude and uncalled for. Normally, only medical professionals and those with transplanted family members (such as myself) think of such things as a matter of course.
RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
I am a doctor with both Emergency Medicine and Internal Medicine as my specialities. The reason for Oscar Munoz to fly private is to avoid acquiring infections. Unfortunately, airplanes are great sources for respiratory infections. Why? Closed space with recirculated air and inadequate air filters. Have ever been seated next to someone coughing? Did you get sick afterward? Both my wife and I have. Also, frequent travel is a physiologic stress to the body. And this will adversely affect anyone's immune system, more so if you are on immuno suppressive drugs. The UA employees love the fact that Oscar visits them all over the U.S.! So as both a Million Miler and a 1K, I am delighted with his leadership. Whatever is spent on private flying, will be more than recovered by improved service and retained customers.
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- DocLightning
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RE: UA's Munoz Flying Private Per Doctor's Orders
| Quoting cosyr (Reply 5): Doesn't change the question or the issue for pax. Do any in the medical field have an explanation as to why he would be given this order? If it were even just a question of seat pitch and width, couldn't he just be relegated to First? |
His immune system is delicate and being crammed into a plane with 150 of his closest friends is not a good idea. I'm a general pediatrician, not a transplant surgeon, but my understanding is that some time after a transplant, patients are asked not to fly while immunosuppressant dosages are gradually lowered and the immune system is allowed to establish tolerance for the graft organ. For Mr. Muñoz, not being able to travel is impractical, but he is in the unusual position of having a private jet practically available for him. So this is a reasonable accommodation.
My patients tend to be lower-income minority children. It would be interesting to have to handle the unique lifestyle/occupational requirements of a major airline CEO.
Mr. Muñoz should continue to fly private until cleared to fly commercial by his medical team. This is perfectly reasonable.
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