Cebo29
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:29 pm

N501DN (DAL#1) scheduled for 7/2017 delivery. N502DN (DAL#2) for 8/2017 delivery.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:56 pm

MSN 103 ET #4, named "Simien Fox", completed a RTO today.

Image
RTO msn103 F-WZFZ 7/4/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:17 am

MSN 107 SQ ready for its first flight:

https://fr24.com/AIB01GC/d03c010
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hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:03 am

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 107 SQ ready for its first flight

Airborne now. MSN 103 (Ethiopian #4) following it closely behind (AIB01FZ)
 
StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:19 am

Is MSN107 still unpainted?

If so I think this is the first time we will have seen an unpainted A350 take to the skies.
 
rbrunner
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:07 pm

StTim wrote:
Is MSN107 still unpainted?

If so I think this is the first time we will have seen an unpainted A350 take to the skies.

That's right. And MSN109 is probably going to be the second.
 
Blotto
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:16 pm

StTim wrote:
Is MSN107 still unpainted?

If so I think this is the first time we will have seen an unpainted A350 take to the skies.


You will see that more often since XFW is taking over some of the painting due to lack of capacity in TLS and spare capacity in XFWs A380 facilities
 
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rotating14
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:40 pm

Does anyone know of the current delivery rate?
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:41 pm

MSN 93 (Cathay #14) looks to have completed its RTO
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:48 pm

StTim wrote:
Is MSN107 still unpainted?

If so I think this is the first time we will have seen an unpainted A350 take to the skies.


Yep.

Image
First flight msn107 F-WZGC 10/4/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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rbrunner
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:02 pm

Blotto wrote:
StTim wrote:
Is MSN107 still unpainted?

If so I think this is the first time we will have seen an unpainted A350 take to the skies.


You will see that more often since XFW is taking over some of the painting due to lack of capacity in TLS and spare capacity in XFWs A380 facilities

That sounds very credible indeed. Cheers.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:16 am

Is there any news available on Vistara & A350?

rotating14 wrote:
Does anyone know of the current delivery rate?


5-6 per month.
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:33 am

Looks like MSN 59 cut an engine off at V1:

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpemBGKmmU

Image
Msn59 F-WMIL (VMU) 10/4/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:39 am

Had the tail skid deployed just in case but didn't quite scrape it.
 
76er
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:49 am

Don't know much about the A350, but I assume the tailskid is supposed to be extended anytime the gear is down.

But holy Mack, what a video!! And leaving the gear down too for some extra excitement.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:49 am

Do the OEM's do this test at mtow?? Or at a lower weight and validate using computer model's??
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:54 am

Probably deserves its own thread but what gives with the 1000nm range increase on the A350-900ULR

Airbus has increased the range of its A350-900ULR to 9,700 nautical miles (17,960 kms) from the 8,700 nautical miles announced when it sold the plane to Singapore Airlines (SIAL.SI) in 2015 for delivery next year, a spokesman told Reuters. Including headwinds, the Sydney-London flight is equivalent to 9,600 nautical miles.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-qanta ... SKBN1772X3

I've checked te Airbus website and it does indeed now state that the A350XWB family is now capable of 9700nm

THE SMART CHOICE FOR ANY AIRLINE

It’s no surprise that this brilliantly-designed aircraft is one of the most versatile in the sky. The A350 XWB actually offers true long-range capability of up to 8,100 nautical miles, but can also be easily configured to operate both regional and ultra-long haul routes (up to 9,700nm), demonstrating its full operational flexibility.


So what happend here, where did this pretty incredulous range bump come from?
BV
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:07 am

MSN 109 (Cathay #15/16) completed its first ER this morning.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:07 am

Wouldn't that require another MTOW bump?

As 280t MTOW will become the baseline in 2020, I can imagine Airbus further increased the MTOW for the A350-900ULR.
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mat66
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:11 am

BoeingVista wrote:

So what happend here, where did this pretty incredulous range bump come from?


Just guessing here, but looking at sin-ewr at around 8200nm and already down to 170 Pax the only way I can see 1500nm more is a 308t A350-900trueLR.
Just strange that they didn't announce this outright. Maybe at Paris Airshow with a launch customer?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:21 am

mat66 wrote:
BoeingVista wrote:

So what happend here, where did this pretty incredulous range bump come from?


Just guessing here, but looking at sin-ewr at around 8200nm and already down to 170 Pax the only way I can see 1500nm more is a 308t A350-900trueLR.
Just strange that they didn't announce this outright. Maybe at Paris Airshow with a launch customer?


Based on the Reuters article, it sounds Airbus pitches this variant to Qantas.
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BoeingVista
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:48 am

mat66 wrote:

Just guessing here, but looking at sin-ewr at around 8200nm and already down to 170 Pax the only way I can see 1500nm more is a 308t A350-900trueLR.
Just strange that they didn't announce this outright. Maybe at Paris Airshow with a launch customer?


Yes its a little strange that Airbus have not thought to do a press release on a 1000nm range bump.

308t is of course where the -1000 MTOW starts and that needs a 6 wheel MLG, so a lot depends on how far they can go with the -900's main gear, and how much the TWB-84 can lift.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:27 am

The original concept of a A350-900R from 2010(?) had the MLG from the -1000 at then 298t MTOW.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:34 am

Very confusing indeed.... A 9700nm a359 will either be the 280t variant flying close to empty or will have the 351's hardware. If it's the latter it will likely require a decent investment and requisite board approval. Perhaps they already have authority to offer now with a formal launch at a later date.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:35 am

Isn't that the longest range for any commercial aircraft? Quite incredible. I see a SYD-LHR nonstop flight become viable (as in flying it with a full load and still being economical) within the foreseeable future.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:36 am

When the manufacturers state ranges for their aircraft are they assuming proper fuel planning i.e. alternates, final, contingency fuel as well. Or do they assume range from full fuel to zero fuel?
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:36 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Based on the Reuters article, it sounds Airbus pitches this variant to Qantas.


So this means that A will launch original 359LR, one with 3510 MLG, wings/box, tanks, and MTOW, if QF selects it.

Then the question is will SQ convert its order or leave it as is
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:08 am

ap305 wrote:
Very confusing indeed.... A 9700nm a359 will either be the 280t variant flying close to empty or will have the 351's hardware.


There is no point in Airbus pitching an empty aircraft to Qantas,

ap305 wrote:
If it's the latter it will likely require a decent investment and requisite board approval. Perhaps they already have authority to offer now with a formal launch at a later date.


If Airbus needs to use the 6 wheel MLG its going to cost a fair amount I would think, but if not it shouldn't cost that much.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:24 am

An A350-1000 with an A350-359 fuselage would be a relatively simple thing to do. It would enable the non-stop Sydney to London.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:41 am

Egerton wrote:
An A350-1000 with an A350-359 fuselage would be a relatively simple thing to do. It would enable the non-stop Sydney to London.


That's the thing, isn't it? A beefed up A359 is hard, but a A3510 with the fuselage of the A359...
Isn't that pretty much what the 772LR and the A340-500 was? How much extra developing cost were those? Still a lot more expansive than the A359ULR for SIA. On the other hand Airbus will charge a lot more for it. If launched this year, EIS in 2020/21 or too optimistic?
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:47 am

Given the remarkable brilliance of the A350 concept and design, it seems likely that such a thing has been part of the plan from day one? Likely it is already designed in? So not much work to do.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:57 am

Egerton wrote:
An A350-1000 with an A350-359 fuselage would be a relatively simple thing to do. It would enable the non-stop Sydney to London.


Keeping the TXWB-97 (for MTOW) and removing the fuselage plugs? Engineering wise simple but its still a new variant certification program. The idea of course being to change as little as possible but remembering items like aircon packs were sized for the PAX count of the -1000 so swapping things like this back would be engineering and certification hours.

I think we have discovered a mystery here, we either have a new A350 variant awaiting launch or some major typos; as 9700nm has been added to the Airbus website it typos seem unlikely

There is 3rd option, that the A350-900 has been hiding phenominal reserve performance and it can just be topped up north of 300 tonnes and put inot opperation with an MTOW RTO and a couple of pieces of paper.
BV
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:06 pm

BoeingVista wrote:
Egerton wrote:
An A350-1000 with an A350-359 fuselage would be a relatively simple thing to do. It would enable the non-stop Sydney to London.


Keeping the TXWB-97 (for MTOW) and removing the fuselage plugs? Engineering wise simple but its still a new variant certification program. The idea of course being to change as little as possible but remembering items like aircon packs were sized for the PAX count of the -1000 so swapping things like this back would be engineering and certification hours.

I think we have discovered a mystery here, we either have a new A350 variant awaiting launch or some major typos; as 9700nm has been added to the Airbus website it typos seem unlikely

There is 3rd option, that the A350-900 has been hiding phenominal reserve performance and it can just be topped up north of 300 tonnes and put inot opperation with an MTOW RTO and a couple of pieces of paper.

Agreed there would be engineering hours expended.

The main flight test issue will be rudder effectiveness due to the shorter moment arm for a -9 bodied -1000. Water ingestion and many other tests must be repeated. The horizontal stabilizer will also have to be looked at and will probably be the MTOW limiting system as the reduced moment arm will limit allowed weight off c.L.

Could it be a base model MTOW increase? Maybe. That much range requires a lot more weight, much more thrust, and gear to handle the weight.

Lightsaber
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:18 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Agreed there would be engineering hours expended.

The main flight test issue will be rudder effectiveness due to the shorter moment arm for a -9 bodied -1000. Water ingestion and many other tests must be repeated. The horizontal stabilizer will also have to be looked at and will probably be the MTOW limiting system as the reduced moment arm will limit allowed weight off c.L.

Could it be a base model MTOW increase? Maybe. That much range requires a lot more weight, much more thrust, and gear to handle the weight.

Lightsaber


Well this blogger who has written on the industry for many years believes that the Airbus pitch is that any regular -900 from 2019 can do this.

In this respect the Airbus plans for the A350 in coming, and potential, ULR formats are more than intriguing. Its shtick is that from 2019 all A350-900s will have the inbuilt potential to be upgraded into A350-900 URLs, thus solving the problem of producing a version of the jet almost nobody wants.


https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalkin ... /09/62214/
Last edited by BoeingVista on Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BV
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:24 pm

As I said in the QF thread though it is hard to tell if that is actually true or if the blogger is misunderstanding how the ULR can be converted back to A359 "standard specifications." We don't know if the reverse (normal A359->ULR) is true. "Standard specifications" (how Airbus defined it in their initial A350ULR press release) does not necessarily mean the hardware is 100% identical between a derated A359ULR and a normal A359, or that any necessary hardware for the ULR is easily retrofittable after the plane leaves the factory.

Airbus' shtick with the A350ULR has been that it is a low cost, low risk option for both Airbus and the airlines because if the ULR routes don't work out you can just convert and use it like any other A350, you are not stuck with a dedicated ULR frame with low resale value that is now overkill for all your other routes (like a A345, 77L, or 778).
 
mat66
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:55 pm

Polot wrote:

Airbus' shtick with the A350ULR has been that it is a low cost, low risk option for both Airbus and the airlines because if the ULR routes don't work out you can just convert and use it like any other A350, you are not stuck with a dedicated ULR frame with low resale value that is now overkill for all your other routes (like a A345, 77L, or 778).


From a commercial point of view a beefed up A359ULR makes a lot more sense. Let's say Qantas orders 5-6 real A3510 shrinks/ original A350R. Who else needs them? Maybe SIA, slim chance BA wants to follow LHR-SYD. ME3 all have 778 on order. I don't see anyone else needing the real A359R. Makes it much more expensive to do now for Airbus.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:15 pm

mat66 wrote:

From a commercial point of view a beefed up A359ULR makes a lot more sense. Let's say Qantas orders 5-6 real A3510 shrinks/ original A350R. Who else needs them? Maybe SIA, slim chance BA wants to follow LHR-SYD. ME3 all have 778 on order. I don't see anyone else needing the real A359R. Makes it much more expensive to do now for Airbus.


Some US airlines may need them to compete directly with SQ on SIN - USA routes. United?? (they seem to have deferred 5 x 350-1000s which could be delivered later as 350ULR of one spec or the other)
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:23 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
mat66 wrote:

From a commercial point of view a beefed up A359ULR makes a lot more sense. Let's say Qantas orders 5-6 real A3510 shrinks/ original A350R. Who else needs them? Maybe SIA, slim chance BA wants to follow LHR-SYD. ME3 all have 778 on order. I don't see anyone else needing the real A359R. Makes it much more expensive to do now for Airbus.


Some US airlines may need them to compete directly with SQ on SIN - USA routes. United?? (they seem to have deferred 5 x 350-1000s which could be delivered later as 350ULR of one spec or the other)

You realize that UA is currently flying SFO-SIN nonstop with the 789? In fact UA's nonstop flight actually forced SQ to alter their plans and start a nonstop flight of their own with the regular A359 so UA wouldn't have a monopoly on SIN-US nonstop for ~2 years while SQ waited for the ULRs.

I don't think UA is interested in starting SIN nonstop from any of their other hubs, especially as longer flights will still require dedicated very premium heavy cabin configurations (something none of the US3 are a huge fan of).
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:29 pm

Polot wrote:
You realize that UA is currently flying SFO-SIN nonstop with the 789? In fact UA's nonstop flight actually forced SQ to alter their plans and start a nonstop flight of their own with the regular A359 so UA wouldn't have a monopoly on SIN-US nonstop for ~2 years while SQ waited for the ULRs.


Yes, a successful but opportunistic move by UA, but the 350 ULR is better optimised for these flights than either the regular 350 or the regular 789.
 
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Polot
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:41 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Polot wrote:
You realize that UA is currently flying SFO-SIN nonstop with the 789? In fact UA's nonstop flight actually forced SQ to alter their plans and start a nonstop flight of their own with the regular A359 so UA wouldn't have a monopoly on SIN-US nonstop for ~2 years while SQ waited for the ULRs.


Yes, a successful but opportunistic move by UA, but the 350 ULR is better optimised for these flights than either the regular 350 or the regular 789.

Yes, but I don't think UA is going to purchase a small ULR fleet just for one or two routes. The 789's flexibility in UA's network makes up for the fact that it is not lifting as much pax/cargo as perhaps possible (I don't know how restricted the 789 is, I think UA employees here have said that seat blocking is not necessary in the summer, although obviously it is probably leaving cargo behind).

ULR is much more important for the likes of the ME3, QF, and SQ than the US3. The US3 can use the power of their domestic networks to shuffle passengers to their hub nearest to the international destination if need be. Foreign carriers do not have that advantage in the US market (unless they link up with an American carrier). I don't think the SIN-US nonstop market, especially as you move further east in the US, is large enough to sustain multiple airlines fighting over it.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:56 pm

76er wrote:
Don't know much about the A350, but I assume the tailskid is supposed to be extended anytime the gear is down.

But holy Mack, what a video!! And leaving the gear down too for some extra excitement.



I don't think you have had a answer on this. The tail skid referred to is a device added purely for tail strikes, or potential tail strikes, during testing.

Obviously if you are doing an engine out test at V1 at anywhere near MTOW you have a risk of a tail strike. During normal operation you take that potential strike. During testing you protect against damage during the worst case scenario testing.

The tail skid was added for the VMU testing where the tail is purposely dragged along the runway. Obviously still in place for this critical engine out at V1 test.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:32 pm

Polot wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
mat66 wrote:

From a commercial point of view a beefed up A359ULR makes a lot more sense. Let's say Qantas orders 5-6 real A3510 shrinks/ original A350R. Who else needs them? Maybe SIA, slim chance BA wants to follow LHR-SYD. ME3 all have 778 on order. I don't see anyone else needing the real A359R. Makes it much more expensive to do now for Airbus.


Some US airlines may need them to compete directly with SQ on SIN - USA routes. United?? (they seem to have deferred 5 x 350-1000s which could be delivered later as 350ULR of one spec or the other)

You realize that UA is currently flying SFO-SIN nonstop with the 789? In fact UA's nonstop flight actually forced SQ to alter their plans and start a nonstop flight of their own with the regular A359 so UA wouldn't have a monopoly on SIN-US nonstop for ~2 years while SQ waited for the ULRs.

I don't think UA is interested in starting SIN nonstop from any of their other hubs, especially as longer flights will still require dedicated very premium heavy cabin configurations (something none of the US3 are a huge fan of).

Sorry to deviate, but the US3 operate some of the most premium heavy configurations in the world, United especially has a massive amount of J seats on most aircraft, far more then most others. AA has some very premium heavy 77W's, as does UA. DL is much closer to the sort of norm that most carriers have.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:37 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Sorry to deviate, but the US3 operate some of the most premium heavy configurations in the world, United especially has a massive amount of J seats on most aircraft, far more then most others. AA has some very premium heavy 77W's, as does UA. DL is much closer to the sort of norm that most carriers have.

I more meant the US3 are not big fans of having various subfleet types differing in configuration. Usually when they do it is to have a configuration less premium heavy than their usual (for things like Hawaii and other domestic flights).
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:41 pm

Any chance we could get back to production and delivery details... please
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:53 am

MSN 99 (Singapore #13/14) completed its RTO late Tue afternoon.
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:25 am

mat66 wrote:
Let's say Qantas orders 5-6 real A3510 shrinks/ original A350R. Who else needs them? Maybe SIA, slim chance BA wants to follow LHR-SYD. ME3 all have 778 on order. I don't see anyone else needing the real A359R. Makes it much more expensive to do now for Airbus.

DL might want it, for their ATL-JNB route, which only the 77Ls can op westbound as of now.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:04 am

KarelXWB wrote:
StTim wrote:
Is MSN107 still unpainted?

If so I think this is the first time we will have seen an unpainted A350 take to the skies.


Yep.

Image
First flight msn107 F-WZGC 10/4/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr


Is this the new one-wing variant? Either the right wing is somehow hidden behind the engine (I don't see how) or the picture qualifies as a photoshop disaster: http://www.photoshopdisasters.com.
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Theseus
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:26 am

TheLark wrote:
Is this the new one-wing variant? Either the right wing is somehow hidden behind the engine (I don't see how) or the picture qualifies as a photoshop disaster: http://www.photoshopdisasters.com.


How about just perspective ? We see a large part of the right wing and the rest is hidden behind the right engine (wing curvature + flex help)...
 
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BobMUC
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:56 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 99 (Singapore #13/14) completed its RTO late Tue afternoon.


And now preparing for FF:
https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB01FU
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:55 am

And it seems MSN 93 CX is also preparing for its first flight.
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