BREECH
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:07 pm

WIederling wrote:
you still see the greenish coatings on AL parts. ( see the A350 nose as an example.)
nothing has changed actually.
Plastics tend to get that beige or on occasion greyish primer coat and
for some select parts are finished up with the customer airlines livery.
( see any A380 for what gets either type of coating.
tailcone : CFRP : beige or airline finish.)

Thank you very much for the info. Do you also happen to know WHY they're primering the "plastics"? Alumin(i)um is coated to avoid oxidation... oxidization?... whichever is correct. But plastics don't really oxidize, do they? In today's world where "one olive saves 100 million" (according to Jetblue), why spend money and time to paint what cannot deteriorate in the elements?
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
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Tedd
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:12 pm

BREECH wrote:
WIederling wrote:
you still see the greenish coatings on AL parts. ( see the A350 nose as an example.)
nothing has changed actually.
Plastics tend to get that beige or on occasion greyish primer coat and
for some select parts are finished up with the customer airlines livery.
( see any A380 for what gets either type of coating.
tailcone : CFRP : beige or airline finish.)

Thank you very much for the info. Do you also happen to know WHY they're primering the "plastics"? Alumin(i)um is coated to avoid oxidation... oxidization?... whichever is correct. But plastics don't really oxidize, do they? In today's world where "one olive saves 100 million" (according to Jetblue), why spend money and time to paint what cannot deteriorate in the elements?


Just like anything with a gloss ( shine ) coat, car, fridge, plastic bumpers, & carbon planes, it needs a primer
at some point, so sooner the better.
 
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maortega15
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:40 pm

Primer is also used for paint to stick similar to how you would prime your walls before painting it in the color of your choice.
 
777Mech
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:53 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
777Mech wrote:
DL #3 should deliver on October 3rd and fly immediately afterwards to MSP for its prior to service induction. No more will be done at ACJC.

Do you not mean November 3? October 3 is in two weeks and the frame is still not painted, no engine run, not RTO and no flights!


Yes, sorry about that! Brain fart :) Nov. 3rd
 
BREECH
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:14 pm

Tedd wrote:
Just like anything with a gloss ( shine ) coat, car, fridge, plastic bumpers, & carbon planes, it needs a primer
at some point, so sooner the better.


maortega15 wrote:
Primer is also used for paint to stick similar to how you would prime your walls before painting it in the color of your choice.

Thank you, dear sirs!

I'm sorry if I'm testing your patience or actually breaking any rules (green on green here!), but if they use primer, do they then have to rub it (with sandpaper or otherwise) to give it the "key" for the paint to stick to?
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
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maortega15
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:10 pm

BREECH wrote:
Tedd wrote:
Just like anything with a gloss ( shine ) coat, car, fridge, plastic bumpers, & carbon planes, it needs a primer
at some point, so sooner the better.


maortega15 wrote:
Primer is also used for paint to stick similar to how you would prime your walls before painting it in the color of your choice.

Thank you, dear sirs!

I'm sorry if I'm testing your patience or actually breaking any rules (green on green here!), but if they use primer, do they then have to rub it (with sandpaper or otherwise) to give it the "key" for the paint to stick to?

Some videos worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESym_Gftu5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3_IP4zoW9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2_zmAiSw9s
 
BREECH
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:30 pm

maortega15 wrote:

Thank you very much. I have to say, I've seen those before and that's exactly why I have all those questions. When an aircraft's livery is white, they paint it white. But if it's colored, they... still paint it white and then paint the color. So it looks like the colored planes have THREE coats: the aluminium/plastics primer, the white coat and then the main color coat. OR MAYBE white planes also get two paint coats, just the second one cannot be seen because it's white-on-white. I'd REALLY love to know how it's actually done. National Geographic tried to explain it in their Ultimate Airport Dubai series, but... their idea of an aircraft engine start is "compressed air pushed on the piston and then ingnition is turned on", so I'm not sure their expertise is too valuable.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
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7BOEING7
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:40 am

BREECH wrote:

Thank you very much for the info. Do you also happen to know WHY they're primering the "plastics"? Alumin(i)um is coated to avoid oxidation... oxidization?... whichever is correct. But plastics don't really oxidize, do they? In today's world where "one olive saves 100 million" (according to Jetblue), why spend money and time to paint what cannot deteriorate in the elements?


I had heard (although I can't find anything to back it up) that bare composite airplanes (787) couldn't be left out in the sun (or just outside in general) without issues.
 
BREECH
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:08 am

7BOEING7 wrote:
I had heard (although I can't find anything to back it up) that bare composite airplanes (787) couldn't be left out in the sun (or just outside in general) without issues.

Is that so? I didn't know that. That's interesting. Did you happen to hear, why? :-)
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Slug71
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:14 am

BREECH wrote:
maortega15 wrote:

Thank you very much. I have to say, I've seen those before and that's exactly why I have all those questions. When an aircraft's livery is white, they paint it white. But if it's colored, they... still paint it white and then paint the color. So it looks like the colored planes have THREE coats: the aluminium/plastics primer, the white coat and then the main color coat. OR MAYBE white planes also get two paint coats, just the second one cannot be seen because it's white-on-white. I'd REALLY love to know how it's actually done. National Geographic tried to explain it in their Ultimate Airport Dubai series, but... their idea of an aircraft engine start is "compressed air pushed on the piston and then ingnition is turned on", so I'm not sure their expertise is too valuable.


The whites should also get 2 coats. The first white coat is also a primer as far as I know. If you just painted over the initial primer, the end result wouldn't be true as the undercoat would alter the colour.

I think that's pretty much a general rule when painting any thing really.
 
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bahmed22
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:29 am

mat66 wrote:
StTim wrote:
Well done Airbus


Yes indeed. I'm just wondering if this is the first time this or any test airplane transports non airbus/customer employees and press. If there is some kind of permit for it, it might have been waivered for this special circumstance.



When Pakistan was hit with massive floods in 2010, AIrbus did send the A340-600 prototype, filled with relief goods, to Islamabad airport (OPRN). However I have no idea what kind of permissions they needed to operate the flight.
 
WIederling
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:38 am

Tedd wrote:
BREECH wrote:
WIederling wrote:
you still see the greenish coatings on AL parts. ( see the A350 nose as an example.)
nothing has changed actually.
Plastics tend to get that beige or on occasion greyish primer coat and
for some select parts are finished up with the customer airlines livery.
( see any A380 for what gets either type of coating.
tailcone : CFRP : beige or airline finish.)

Thank you very much for the info. Do you also happen to know WHY they're primering the "plastics"? Alumin(i)um is coated to avoid oxidation... oxidization?... whichever is correct. But plastics don't really oxidize, do they? In today's world where "one olive saves 100 million" (according to Jetblue), why spend money and time to paint what cannot deteriorate in the elements?


Just like anything with a gloss ( shine ) coat, car, fridge, plastic bumpers, & carbon planes, it needs a primer
at some point, so sooner the better.


And you want all open fibers covered. No UV, no water.
( Look at any glass fiber "thingy" that has been weathered for some time.
pigment filled gel coat turns matte and rough while the places without
start to loose the binding resin and the fibers start to fray out. )
Murphy is an optimist
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:45 am

MSN 142 TG #7 has advanced to the delivery centre.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Eyad89
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:13 am

How is Airbus doing so far in terms of meeting its 80 frames target for 2017? Are we going to see huge Nov/Dec overtime to meet the target (like the last couple of years)?
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:26 pm

MSN 147 ET #6 has rolled out to the flight line.
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:29 pm

Seems that MSN 140 SQ #18 performed a 3rd flight today. Should move to the delivery centre shortly.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Polot
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:45 pm

WIederling wrote:
Tedd wrote:
BREECH wrote:
Thank you very much for the info. Do you also happen to know WHY they're primering the "plastics"? Alumin(i)um is coated to avoid oxidation... oxidization?... whichever is correct. But plastics don't really oxidize, do they? In today's world where "one olive saves 100 million" (according to Jetblue), why spend money and time to paint what cannot deteriorate in the elements?


Just like anything with a gloss ( shine ) coat, car, fridge, plastic bumpers, & carbon planes, it needs a primer
at some point, so sooner the better.


And you want all open fibers covered. No UV, no water.
( Look at any glass fiber "thingy" that has been weathered for some time.
pigment filled gel coat turns matte and rough while the places without
start to loose the binding resin and the fibers start to fray out. )

Yes, UV protection is probably the biggest reasons. UV radiation degrades the resin.
 
BREECH
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:49 pm

Slug71 wrote:
The whites should also get 2 coats. The first white coat is also a primer as far as I know. If you just painted over the initial primer, the end result wouldn't be true as the undercoat would alter the colour.

I think that's pretty much a general rule when painting any thing really.

I'll take your word for it. Never painted anything in my life. Thanks for the info. :-)
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
BREECH
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:51 pm

WIederling wrote:
And you want all open fibers covered. No UV, no water.
( Look at any glass fiber "thingy" that has been weathered for some time. pigment filled gel coat turns matte and rough while the places without start to loose the binding resin and the fibers start to fray out. )

Especially going at 900kph through clouds. :-)
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:11 am

MSN 145 MK #1 initial engine run this morning.

Image
First engine run msn145 F-WZNN 19/9/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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VirginFlyer
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:14 am

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 145 MK #1 initial engine run this morning.

Image
First engine run msn145 F-WZNN 19/9/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

They've found the green paint!

V/F
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:17 am

MSN 145 always had the correct flag painted, it's MSN 157 that misses the green paint.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:33 am

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 145 always had the correct flag painted, it's MSN 157 that misses the green paint.

Ah oops!

V/F
"It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:33 am

Which frame is in the background?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:34 am

StTim wrote:
Which frame is in the background?


MSN 52
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StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:37 am

Ah - one of the old SriLankan frames. Thanks
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:58 am

Have a close look at the photo below because it's a sight we're not going to see anymore. Airbus is currently dismantling some of the 6 Outstanding Work (OSW) pavilions, located at the A380 site. Most A350s are now heading from P18 (ground testing) straight into S20 (cabin furnishing). The dismantling process can be noticed in the Air China photo below.

Image
A380 A350 some aircraft stored at Toulouse Blagnac (Aug 2017) by cliper31, on Flickr

Image
864_A350s_A380s by Nigel Howarth, on Flickr
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StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:33 am

Good news for Airbus and the A350. I noticed that in general the speed from Final Assembly to flightline has improved for recent frames.
 
BOAC1966
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:51 am

Where are we on the -1000 certification? The RR -97 engines certificated and route proving said to be in near future .....other milestones? Will November delivery to Qatar happen?
 
StTim
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:53 am

I have not heard of the MTOW RTO being done yet. That is normally one of the last tests to be done.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:53 am

The engine is already certified and route proving flights will start soon. Delivery to QR is scheduled in December.
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:17 am

MSN 142 TG #7 first CAF: https://fr24.com/AIB06NS/eea4ab0
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BOAC1966
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:35 pm

Assume flutter tests have been completed. Does AB announce the route proving schedules? I see that that F-WLXV, I believe with full cabin, has been more active suggesting route proving in coming weeks?
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:02 pm

MSN 144 OZ #3 has moved to the delivery centre.
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Slug71
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:59 pm

BOAC1966 wrote:
Assume flutter tests have been completed. Does AB announce the route proving schedules? I see that that F-WLXV, I believe with full cabin, has been more active suggesting route proving in coming weeks?


I saw all three of them online today. For the past few days, I've only been seeing online.
Should be getting close to route proving.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:59 am

MSN 137 (CX #19) at the delivery centre this morning (20/9).
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:32 am

MSN 144 (OZ #3) departing on its first CAF #AIB06NJ
 
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:59 pm

MSN 153 HX #2 has emerged from cabin fit.

Image
Msn153 F-WZNU 20/9/2017 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:41 am

MSN 142 (TG #7) sporting its final regs this morning. HS-THH. Delivery imminent.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:16 am

MSN 137 (CX #19) departing on its first CAF #AIB03NF.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:17 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 142 (TG #7) sporting its final regs this morning. HS-THH. Delivery imminent.


MSN 134 AY #11 sports its final registration too. Delivery flight is scheduled for Friday.
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hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:10 pm

MSN 145 (MK #1) just completed its RTO. First flight scheduled for tomorrow.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:23 pm

Another QR A350, MSN 90, has rolled out to the flight line (painted).
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:38 pm

And we're not done yet as MSN 150 VN #9 has moved from cabin fit to the flight line (painted).
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A330freak
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:45 am

MSN60, Sichuan's first A350. What an amazing special livery!

From Jujug Spotting
Image1st Airbus A350 Sichuan Airlines by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:48 am

A330freak wrote:
MSN60, Sichuan's first A350. What an amazing special livery!

And that's MSN 153 (HX #2) unpainted behind it also on the flight line.
 
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BobMUC
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:06 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 145 (MK #1) just completed its RTO. First flight scheduled for tomorrow.


On it's way to it's FF:
https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB01NN/ef375a1
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:57 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
A330freak wrote:
MSN60, Sichuan's first A350. What an amazing special livery!

And that's MSN 153 (HX #2) unpainted behind it also on the flight line.


Yes indeed. MSN 153 is better visible in the following photo:

Image
A350 SICHUAN by cliper31, on Flickr
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KarelXWB
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:57 am

BobMUC wrote:
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 145 (MK #1) just completed its RTO. First flight scheduled for tomorrow.


On it's way to it's FF:
https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB01NN/ef375a1


=>

Image
Air Mauritius A350-900 by Rami Khanna-Prade, on Flickr
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hkcanadaexpat
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Re: A350 Production And Delivery Thread Part 17

Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:38 pm

MSN 149 (DL #3) conducting initial engine run.

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