Airbus A350 Production And Delivery Thread - 2016-2017 (Part 17)

hkcanadaexpat · Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:28 am

MSN 137 (CX #19) looks to have rolled out of paint and onto the flightline. TBC

KarelXWB · Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:44 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 128 (CX #18) sporting its final registration this morning (B-LRS). Delivery imminent.

There was a photo shoot with MSN 128 in Toulouse:

https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/899636832975163392/

hkcanadaexpat · Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:29 am

MSN 142 (TG #7) departing on a second test flight. could also be a ferry flight to Hamburg for painting. #AIB02NS

KarelXWB · Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:19 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
could also be a ferry flight to Hamburg for painting

Looks like it:

RB211trent · Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:45 am

My First post- but I can confirm Qatar are definatly taking the previously cacelled 4 frames but cancelling 4 later frames.

ap305 · Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:49 am

RB211trent wrote:
My First post- but I can confirm Qatar are definatly taking the previously cacelled 4 frames but cancelling 4 later frames.

Welcome- this is what I guessed might be happening. It is a major pain to sell an aircraft that is being configured for another customer.

KarelXWB · Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:02 pm

That's why we have seen activity on MSN 63 recently. Aircraft came suddenly out of storage.

And so QR doesn't need to increase its order book to re-take the 4 canceled aircraft. Just cancel 4 aircraft further down the road.

hkcanadaexpat · Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:13 pm

MSN 133 (SQ #17) departing on 5th test flight #AIB05GO
MSN 134 (AY #11) preparing for its RTO

SteinarN · Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:15 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
That's why we have seen activity on MSN 63 recently. Aircraft came suddenly out of storage.

And so QR doesn't need to increase its order book to re-take the 4 canceled aircraft. Just cancel 4 aircraft further down the road.

Sounds reasonable. I notice MSN 161, 163 and 172 for Quatar have still not entered final assembly. MSN 180 is the latest to enter final assembly acording to A350 production list on Google.

Geoff1947 · Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:55 pm

SteinarN wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
That's why we have seen activity on MSN 63 recently. Aircraft came suddenly out of storage.

And so QR doesn't need to increase its order book to re-take the 4 canceled aircraft. Just cancel 4 aircraft further down the road.

Sounds reasonable. I notice MSN 161, 163 and 172 for Quatar have still not entered final assembly. MSN 180 is the latest to enter final assembly acording to A350 production list on Google.

Well the word reasonable does not describe QR to me. They have taken delivery of just One A350 this year. Reasonable airlines are taking delivery of frames in the range MSN 125 to 135. QR has still not taken MSN 76 and MSN 83 !!

SteinarN · Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:18 pm

I didnt mean Qatar in any way is/was reasonable, because I dont think they have been that. But when we are talking about what frames should actually end up not beeing delivered, objectively it is more reasonable to not deliver not yet built frames than to not deliver already built and equipped frames.

PM · Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:31 pm

I'm told by a reliable source (within the airline) that QR are delaying plans to go daily to WDH (where I live) because of shortage of frames. I suppose that's not incompatible with cancelling four planes down the line but I still don't get it.

KarelXWB · Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:49 pm

MSN 124 HX #1 is performing a short recheck flight:

https://fr24.com/AIB03GE/e93a2f6

Geoff1947 · Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:05 pm

PM wrote:
I'm told by a reliable source (within the airline) that QR are delaying plans to go daily to WDH (where I live) because of shortage of frames. I suppose that's not incompatible with cancelling four planes down the line but I still don't get it.

I didn't intend any criticism of you. Personally I don't believe anything attributed to QR. They are in a complete mess but not really surprising as the country is struggling to survive.

Geoff

hkcanadaexpat · Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:32 am

MSN 136 (LH #5) is at the delivery centre this morning.

3rdGen · Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:29 am

I don't understand QRs move. They stopped delivery of four frames sighting quality issues. Now they're taking them and cancelling four future frames? Why. Just to punish Airbus. Have their requirements changed? From 80 to 76 frames? Either those frames are not up to quality they expect or they are and they should take them. It seems clear Qatar is just throwing a fit and Airbus has found a compromise.

Qatara340 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:38 am

Geoff1947 wrote:
PM wrote:
I'm told by a reliable source (within the airline) that QR are delaying plans to go daily to WDH (where I live) because of shortage of frames. I suppose that's not incompatible with cancelling four planes down the line but I still don't get it.

I didn't intend any criticism of you. Personally I don't believe anything attributed to QR. They are in a complete mess but not really surprising as the country is struggling to survive.

Geoff

QR are indeed in shortage of widebodies frames. The country is not struggling to survive, we are the fastest growing economy in the Gulf despite the blockade--which will help with aviation as well .

QR have upgraded some narrowbody african flights to widebody as well.

But, from what you said, will QR still the four cancelled frames?

hkcanadaexpat · Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:22 am

MSN 130 (TG #6) on another flight test. #AIB05FB
MSN 148 (CX #20) is online on the flightline today. Presumably unpainted.

KarelXWB · Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:31 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 134 (AY #11) preparing for its RTO

=>

Finnair A350-941 msn 134 by dn280tls, on Flickr

Ugly51 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:41 am

3rdGen wrote:
I don't understand QRs move. They stopped delivery of four frames sighting quality issues. Now they're taking them and cancelling four future frames? Why. Just to punish Airbus. Have their requirements changed? From 80 to 76 frames? Either those frames are not up to quality they expect or they are and they should take them. It seems clear Qatar is just throwing a fit and Airbus has found a compromise.

Mr Baker has been told by the Emir to accept the aircraft.. There is only one Boss in Qatar.

Asiaflyer · Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:51 am

Qatara340 wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
PM wrote:
I'm told by a reliable source (within the airline) that QR are delaying plans to go daily to WDH (where I live) because of shortage of frames. I suppose that's not incompatible with cancelling four planes down the line but I still don't get it.

I didn't intend any criticism of you. Personally I don't believe anything attributed to QR. They are in a complete mess but not really surprising as the country is struggling to survive.

Geoff

QR are indeed in shortage of widebodies frames. The country is not struggling to survive, we are the fastest growing economy in the Gulf despite the blockade--which will help with aviation as well .

QR have upgraded some narrowbody african flights to widebody as well.

But, from what you said, will QR still the four cancelled frames?

Makes no sense that all QR frames should have quality issues while all other operators accept theirs. Remeber also how AAB praised the A350 last year. Airbus has not caused the slow down of the deliveries to QR this year. There is much more to the story that not has been made public.

KarelXWB · Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:31 am

MSN 126 QR #25 parked in front of the A380 hangars:

TLS - Airbus A350-941 (MSN126) Airbus Industrie by Nathan Walkowiak, on Flickr

hkcanadaexpat · Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:21 pm

MSN 134 (AY #11) soon to depart on maiden flight. #AIB01GY

JerseyFlyer · Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:48 pm

3rdGen wrote:
I don't understand QRs move. They stopped delivery of four frames sighting quality issues. Now they're taking them and cancelling four future frames? Why. Just to punish Airbus. Have their requirements changed? From 80 to 76 frames? Either those frames are not up to quality they expect or they are and they should take them. It seems clear Qatar is just throwing a fit and Airbus has found a compromise.

Or Airbus wanted 4 slots for Qantas?

TC957 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:20 pm

Question re MSN allocations - why is it that when an airline that has A350's on order and MSN's allocated, then defers the order, like AA has, the allocated MSN's are simply cancelled as " not built " and not reallocated to another airline that may be grateful for an earlier production slot ?

Breathe · Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:03 pm

TC957 wrote:
Question re MSN allocations - why is it that when an airline that has A350's on order and MSN's allocated, then defers the order, like AA has, the allocated MSN's are simply cancelled as " not built " and not reallocated to another airline that may be grateful for an earlier production slot ?

For administration purproses, its probably more hassle than its worth. Although someone here may have an "official" reason for it.

mat66 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:13 pm

Breathe wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Question re MSN allocations - why is it that when an airline that has A350's on order and MSN's allocated, then defers the order, like AA has, the allocated MSN's are simply cancelled as " not built " and not reallocated to another airline that may be grateful for an earlier production slot ?

For administration purproses, its probably more hassle than its worth. Although someone here may have an "official" reason for it.

No official reason from me, but I guess it would jam the production line. Maybe just better to delete the MSN and take the already (pre-)produced parts out of the sequence completely.

WIederling · Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:32 am

Breathe wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Question re MSN allocations - why is it that when an airline that has A350's on order and MSN's allocated, then defers the order, like AA has, the allocated MSN's are simply cancelled as " not built " and not reallocated to another airline that may be grateful for an earlier production slot ?

For administration purproses, its probably more hassle than its worth. Although someone here may have an "official" reason for it.

If all your documents for a specific order reference and connect via a specific MSN then you would wreak havoc in your docs system
by reusing that MSN for a different customer. ( you now would have two sets of documents for the same MSN.
How do you retract the "wrong" initial set?)

Things are different if that individual frame is transferred as is to a different customer.

hkcanadaexpat · Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:01 am

MSN 124 (HX #1) at the delivery centre this morning

APYu · Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:16 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 124 (HX #1) at the delivery centre this morning

Day 1 of cabin inspection

Geoff1947 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:04 am

Qatara340 wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
PM wrote:
I'm told by a reliable source (within the airline) that QR are delaying plans to go daily to WDH (where I live) because of shortage of frames. I suppose that's not incompatible with cancelling four planes down the line but I still don't get it.

I didn't intend any criticism of you. Personally I don't believe anything attributed to QR. They are in a complete mess but not really surprising as the country is struggling to survive.

Geoff

QR are indeed in shortage of widebodies frames. The country is not struggling to survive, we are the fastest growing economy in the Gulf despite the blockade--which will help with aviation as well .

QR have upgraded some narrowbody african flights to widebody as well.

But, from what you said, will QR still the four cancelled frames?

I didn't mean your economy is struggling it is the future of Qatar as an independent state which is in doubt. Without support from Saudi Arabia and the USA ( who back Saudi in the current dispute ) your country may have no future.

Geoff

KarelXWB · Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:43 am

MSN 138 CI #8 emerged from paint in XFW.

A350 China Airlines B-18909 by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:49 am

Few pics of MSN 167, Air China's first A350, when it was undergoing final assembly at Station 40:

KarelXWB · Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:14 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 134 (AY #11) soon to depart on maiden flight. #AIB01GY

=>

Finnair A350-941 msn 134 by dn280tls, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:51 am

The A350-1000 test campaign is in its final phases as Airbus is preparing route proving flights with MSN 65 in the coming weeks. After that we should see a maximum energy RTO, followed by type certificate.

Right now Rolls-Royce is dealing with a last minute engine issue in the combustion chamber that should be resolved quickly ("several weeks").

BOAC1966 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:39 am

Excellent news Karl and hopefully our lead customer will accept without issues!

KarelXWB · Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:18 pm

Meanwhile in XFW, fuselage sections for MSN 180 ET #7 and MSN 181 TG #9 have been spotted. These will be shipped to Toulouse for FAL entry.

A320 flyadeal HZ-FAB by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr

Geoff1947 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:29 pm

Good that the first -1000 for CX has entered assembly. They are a much more reasonable customer when it comes to taking delivery of A350s.

Geoff

euroflyer · Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:51 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:
They are a much more reasonable customer when it comes to taking delivery of A350s.

Geoff

You mean like accepting frames and then asking Zodiac to change the cabin seats few weeks later while the aircraft is on revenue op ? Yeah, makes perfect sense...

hkcanadaexpat · Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:29 pm

MSN 63 (QR #18) conducting its RTO this afternoon.

KarelXWB · Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:47 pm

MSN 130 TG #6 has moved to the delivery centre.

itisi · Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:48 pm

euroflyer wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
They are a much more reasonable customer when it comes to taking delivery of A350s.

Geoff

You mean like accepting frames and then asking Zodiac to change the cabin seats few weeks later while the aircraft is on revenue op ? Yeah, makes perfect sense...

If the new seats are in Hong Kong then why not. HAECO can install them.

KarelXWB · Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:56 pm

Speaking about seats, photo below shows MSN 136 LH #5 with seats partly installed. The remainder of the seats will be installed by Lufthansa Technik after delivery.

https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/900760684753035264

KarelXWB · Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:57 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 148 (CX #20) is online on the flightline today. Presumably unpainted.

MSN 137 CX #19 has now rolled out as well. This one is fully painted.

StTim · Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:00 pm

There are quite a few on the flight line at the moment. Ok so I do overcount a little as those in Hamburg for painting have flown so I include those.

KarelXWB · Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:02 pm

StTim wrote:
There are quite a few on the flight line at the moment. Ok so I do overcount a little as those in Hamburg for painting have flown so I include those.

Holidays are over so activities are increasing again.

KarelXWB · Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:00 am

MSN 63 QR airborne on its first flight: https://fr24.com/AIB01FJ/e9c63bf

hkcanadaexpat · Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:40 am

MSN 136 (LH #5) out on its first CAF. #AIB03NI
MSN 124 (HX #1) also out on its first CAF. #AIB04GE

Geoff1947 · Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:09 am

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 63 QR airborne on its first flight: https://fr24.com/AIB01FJ/e9c63bf

So it looks like the rumour that QR will still take this frame is true, unless Airbus found another buyer.

Geoff

Jayafe · Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:19 am

Geoff1947 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 63 QR airborne on its first flight: https://fr24.com/AIB01FJ/e9c63bf

So it looks like the rumour that QR will still take this frame is true, unless Airbus found another buyer.

Geoff

QR will take all the "problematic" planes as they are, cancelling later deliveries instead. The refusal was an contractual based excuse for cancelling 4 frames, not an actual quality issue.

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