Delta Officially Announces Premium Economy

cosyr · Mon May 02, 2016 1:37 pm

I know that it has been a rumor for a while, but now it has come straight from the horse's mouth. And we have a rollout plan and rough timetable.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonrab...mium-economy-product/#332bd7a1312a

This is really going to put the pressure on UA to speed up their own plans, which I am sure exist behind closed doors. They may be last to announce, but if they introduce it on the 77W's, they could still beat DL to market.

[Edited 2016-05-02 06:38:50]

gatibosgru · Mon May 02, 2016 1:39 pm

Looks like an old school biz class seat. Wonder how much more that'll cost compared to reg Y.

Cubsrule · Mon May 02, 2016 1:44 pm

It's interesting that the 763s are apparently not getting the product. Are they being retired before the 764s? Most (but not all) of the 763ERs are older than the 764s.

cosyr · Mon May 02, 2016 1:45 pm

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 1):

And how they'll sell it. Will it only be for new ticket purchase, last minute upgrades if there's space, or like Comfort +, will you be able to pay extra for the seat anytime? Also, will it be complimentary for Medallion members? Discounted (more likely)?

Sightseer · Mon May 02, 2016 1:50 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
It's interesting that the 763s are apparently not getting the product.

There is also curiously no mention of the A333/A339 fleets, even though they will obviously be around for quite a while. Perhaps the timeframe for those just hasn't been nailed down yet?

Regardless, glad to see that this development is officially confirmed.

Polot · Mon May 02, 2016 1:51 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
It's interesting that the 763s are apparently not getting the product. Are they being retired before the 764s? Most (but not all) of the 763ERs are older than the 764s.

Only 2 763s are newer than some of the 764s. I don't think there was ever any doubt that the 763s would be retired before the 764s. The 764s are also in desperate need of some TLC, as they (along with the 777s) currently have the oldest international cabins.

Quoting cosyr (Reply 3):
And how they'll sell it. Will it only be for new ticket purchase, last minute upgrades if there's space, or like Comfort +, will you be able to pay extra for the seat anytime? Also, will it be complimentary for Medallion members? Discounted (more likely)?

It will almost certainly be a separate class that you book at time of purchase, just like Delta One. I don't know enough about DL's upgrade policies to postulate about how Y to Y+ upgrades will be handled.

[Edited 2016-05-02 06:53:48]

Cubsrule · Mon May 02, 2016 1:59 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 5):
Only 2 763s are newer than some of the 764s. I don't think there was ever any doubt that the 763s would be retired before the 764s.

The only contrary reason might be that the economics of the 764 suffer when the 763 leaves because that leaves the 764 as a fairly small orphan fleet.

You are correct, though, that as far as need the 764 is far ahead. The "new" (in quotes because it's not so new anymore) 763 international product is actually pretty nice.

N717TW · Mon May 02, 2016 2:02 pm

A350, right?

How much does anyone want to guess that it also comes to the 777 by keeping 4-5 rows of 3-3-3 seating and then introducing 3-4-3 to the rest of the Y cabin?

cosyr · Mon May 02, 2016 2:06 pm

Quoting N717TW (Reply 7):

I'm pretty confident that it will be 8 across on the 777's, since 8 across on the A350 would be a lot nicer seat than 9 across on a 777. Then maybe 7 on the A330's and 6 on the 767's (Bet they're glad they don't have 6 across J seats anymore, that would be pretty pitiful in comparison)

Polot · Mon May 02, 2016 2:11 pm

It will be interesting to see if DL keeps regular Comfort + on the widebodies in addition to this class like AA is doing.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
The only contrary reason might be that the economics of the 764 suffer when the 763 leaves because that leaves the 764 as a fairly small orphan fleet.

The 764 fleet alone is a larger fleet than DL's 777 fleet. That said I don't expect them to last too much longer after the 763s, but it will be a while before those are all gone anyways.

[Edited 2016-05-02 07:13:46]

georgiaame · Mon May 02, 2016 2:23 pm

Completely unrevealing story. No info whatsoever. As for the "new" Delta One, having flown it last week from NCE to JFK, there is absolutely no difference between the so called "new" product and the "old" BusinessElite. Nada. So my suggestion: separate cabin. Decent seats (not the old, rock hard leather stuff. Leg rests. More space. DECENT meal service! Booze included. If lessons are needed, fly a few Singapore Airlines, Air France, or Virgin Atlantic flights. They have the service down pat. And it's worth the upcharges.

Travelmanager · Mon May 02, 2016 2:57 pm

Quoting georgiaame (Reply 10):

Completely unrevealing story. No info whatsoever.

Well, they did give an ok high level overview. Granted, it was a little light on some of the details. Even the picture is of the AA Prem Economy product. Also, the article didn't mention anything about the A333. Going for the longer flights first and then the 764 (which heavy on the LHR routes and key to matching VS product) does make sense, but hopefully they won't wait too long to get their A333 fleet up to speed.

If they can cater this with business class food and the same service level, I can see this easily being a home run for them. Bastian is correct, there is a huge gap between E+ and Delta One.

cosyr · Mon May 02, 2016 3:10 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 9):
It will be interesting to see if DL keeps regular Comfort + on the widebodies

I would at least think exit rows and front of cabin, etc.

EddieDude · Mon May 02, 2016 4:07 pm

Yes, interesting that they say nothing about the A333 and A339 fleets, but I am quite certain that they will be fitted with the W-class cabin.

wingman · Mon May 02, 2016 4:42 pm

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 1):
Looks like an old school biz class seat. Wonder how much more that'll cost compared to reg Y.

I can't say this is a definitive indication but I've recently been pricing Portland-Seoul RT runs on SQ and AC, which have fairly equal offerings in this space (from what I can see in pictures) and which look comparable to what you see above. The sense I'm getting is a linear doubling of cost per class upgrade ($750 RT on AC Y, $1500 Y+, and $3000 for J). For me solo or just me and my wife I'd not hesitate, but throw in the wee man and $4500 seems excessive. I'm still teetering, hoping that Kayak will come through with a sale alert. Very nice looking seats those on AC. AC, SQ and of course ANZ have set the bar quite high. For families or solo fliers living in that large gray area between Y and J this new class is very welcome indeed.

mayor · Mon May 02, 2016 4:46 pm

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 4):

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
It's interesting that the 763s are apparently not getting the product.

There is also curiously no mention of the A333/A339 fleets, even though they will obviously be around for quite a while. Perhaps the timeframe for those just hasn't been nailed down yet?

According to DL, first will be the A359, then the 777, then the rest of the widebody fleet.

OA412 · Mon May 02, 2016 4:52 pm

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 1):
Looks like an old school biz class seat. Wonder how much more that'll cost compared to reg Y.

That's actually AA's new product. It's unclear if DL will have the same seat. But yes, that is essentially what premium economy is. In some ways, we're back to the early days of biz class.

airlinereporter · Mon May 02, 2016 5:12 pm

Hi everyone, article author here. Sorry to be lacking on details, but this is all I was given from Delta at Media Day. I specifically asked Ed Bastian about premium economy, and this was what I had to work with. There was no press kit, no images, or any other details. I didn't mention the A333 or other fleet types because the exec I talked to did not mention them. I'm sure they will get premium economy, but probably later down the road.

Additionally, it seems that Comfort+ will NOT be on aircraft that receive premium economy, but I'm not 100% on that. It just doesn't sound right to me. Happy to answer any questions.

[Edited 2016-05-02 10:20:39]

Sightseer · Mon May 02, 2016 5:19 pm

Quoting airlinereporter (Reply 17):
Hi everyone, article author here. Sorry to be lacking on details, but this is all I was given from Delta at Media Day.

Thanks for filling us in! You can't report on what you don't know

I'm sure the rest of those details will come out in due time.

qcpilotxf · Mon May 02, 2016 5:48 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
The only contrary reason might be that the economics of the 764 suffer when the 763 leaves because that leaves the 764 as a fairly small orphan fleet.

I believe the pilot group is already separated from the rest of the 75/76, and there is more than enough 764s to have a fleet by themselves

TheRedBaron · Mon May 02, 2016 6:13 pm

Great for Delta!! and Us as consumers, now the real question is where is the "sweet Spot", where you think your extra $$$ is worth the product and services.

As a Passenger if my flight is less than 3 hours and I am not Tall or heavy, I can endure any torture chamber, but after 3 hours and specially after 5 hour trip my preference is to pay for E plus or equivalent and enjoy more confort.

How much will it cost? DL needs to advertise its product careful so we as consumers forget about the cheap fare and enjoy the actual flight on a reasonable fee upgrade.

I really hope this catches on and there is a lot of competition, so we will win as consumers and get a better flying experience, specially now that F is disappearing and C class is a huge jump in price from Economy.

TRB

Yflyer · Mon May 02, 2016 6:49 pm

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 1):
Looks like an old school biz class seat.

That's what I've thought for a while. Business class has improved so much it's now in many way better than first was a couple of decades ago. But that left a big gap between economy and business, and premium economy fills that gap. IMO premium economy is essentially what business class used to be, and business is what first once was.

cosyr · Mon May 02, 2016 7:19 pm

Quoting qcpilotxf (Reply 19):
I believe the pilot group is already separated from the rest of the 75/76

While the 75/76 share the same cockpit, I thought the 764 actually shared the 777 certification? Maybe some DL or UA pilots can clarify?

Pohakuloa · Tue May 03, 2016 1:09 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 16):
In some ways, we're back to the early days of biz class.

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 21):
IMO premium economy is essentially what business class used to be, and business is what first once was.

My exact thoughts as well. First and biz go full circle. Different names, but same gaps between the new product levels.

Personally, I like the current Y+ simply because I still need to purchase 2 seats for the comfort of my fellow passengers (left to right) and i like the extra pitch for myself. Fortunately for me, the left to right is coming down and eventually a 20-24 width J seat will be amazing for me. But for now, I guess I'll enjoy the current Y+ offerings while they last and while I am able to use them.

Here's to better tomorrows!

Pohakuloa

questions · Tue May 03, 2016 1:17 am

Delta One... and now we have, Delta Two.

questions · Tue May 03, 2016 1:19 am

I would not be surprised I'd the Delta One cabins get a little smaller to accommodate this class of service.

DocLightning · Tue May 03, 2016 1:31 am

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 1):

Looks like an old school biz class seat. Wonder how much more that'll cost compared to reg Y.

I didn't see any pics of the new product. They included a pic of AA's product.

DocLightning · Tue May 03, 2016 1:36 am

Quoting wingman (Reply 14):
For me solo or just me and my wife I'd not hesitate, but throw in the wee man and $4500 seems excessive.

I subscribe to Richard Branson's view: when he flew with his kids, he flew in Y. "If it's good enough for our customers..." And he didn't want his kids to get used to premium service at a young age.

Flying on your own with money you earned yourself? Spend it how you like. I'll buy Y+ for long-haul travel.

johns624 · Tue May 03, 2016 1:44 am

In a year and a half, my wife and I are going on an Australian/New Zealand cruise. This will be very welcome on the long LAX-SYD flight.

[Edited 2016-05-02 18:46:01]

global1 · Tue May 03, 2016 1:57 am

Anyone who says they have flown the 'new' DeltaOne is not entirely correct. That product is evolving and will culminate with new seats (not yet revealed) and cabins, starting with the A350 and 330neo. The 777 and 764 will follow and then the remainder of the international fleet

In the meantime, improvements to DeltaOne will continue to roll out, including new china, flatware, serviceware, and linens by Alessi. Uniforms designed by Zac Posen will begin the test wearing phase starting this fall.

I expect that 4 cabin options will be offered going forward.

DeltaOne:

Premium Economy: Yet to be branded. A separate cabin with its own catering, etc...)

DeltaComfort+: An up-sell option for those desiring extra legroom, etc.. for a modest fare differential.
Some form of divider/curtain will be installed.

Economy Class: Improvements in catering, among other things, will trickle down to this cabin.

I would not be surprised if a DeltaOne cabin 'refresh' happens on the 777 and 764 fleets as they await full product configurations.

[Edited 2016-05-02 19:03:23]

[Edited 2016-05-02 19:07:19]

guppyflyer · Tue May 03, 2016 2:21 am

Quoting cosyr (Reply 22):

Quoting cosyr (Reply 22):
While the 75/76 share the same cockpit, I thought the 764 actually shared the 777 certification? Maybe some DL or UA pilots can clarify?

At United we fly the 752/753/763/764 all as one fleet.

AAIL86 · Tue May 03, 2016 2:40 am

Quoting wingman (Reply 14):
The sense I'm getting is a linear doubling of cost per class upgrade ($750 RT on AC Y, $1500 Y+, and $3000 for J). For me solo or just me and my wife I'd not hesitate, but throw in the wee man and $4500 seems excessive. I'm still teetering, hoping that Kayak will come through with a sale alert. Very nice looking seats those on AC. AC, SQ and of course ANZ have set the bar quite high.

I flew AC a couple years ago on YVR-HKG in Y+/PE on the 77W and it was a very nice product. Very comfortable seat, plenty of booze, and the food was quite good as well (In fact, that trip was RTW and I returned home AMS-IAH in KLM J and the PE food on AC was better then KLM's J food service IMO).
That being said, Delta will find this product makes money. Space and service has been substantially reduced over the years and many passengers now realize you have to pay extra for it. Main cabins worldwide are a far cry from when I entered the airline business in 2000 with AA. Back then our MD-11s had 34" pitch in economy as standard!

[Edited 2016-05-02 19:40:52]

DocLightning · Tue May 03, 2016 3:05 am

Quoting global1 (Reply 29):

Premium Economy: Yet to be branded. A separate cabin with its own catering, etc...)

DeltaComfort+: An up-sell option for those desiring extra legroom, etc.. for a modest fare differential.
Some form of divider/curtain will be installed.

Economy Class: Improvements in catering, among other things, will trickle down to this cabin.

Something to appreciate: Airlines are actually making Y class more miserable because they want to encourage you to pay for more convenience and comfort. There is zero incentive to upgrade your Y experience when the fare is set by the market and so your job is to spend as little as possible on each passenger.

global1 · Tue May 03, 2016 3:19 am

What's wrong with the concept of paying more for convenience and comfort? As consumers we do this constantly in our daily lives.

Even Uber has the option to share a ride if price is of the utmost importance or you can summon an upscale car if that's what you want.

[Edited 2016-05-02 20:22:43]

anonms · Tue May 03, 2016 7:38 am

Quoting global1 (Reply 29):

DeltaOne
Premium Economy
DeltaComfort+
Economy Class

Personally, I think "Delta One", "Delta Two", " Delta Three+", and "Delta Three" have a nice ring to them....

terrificturk · Tue May 03, 2016 10:01 am

not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the Premium Eco cabins are usually priced in the range of the old school - full-flex Eco tariff, that ppl hardly chose nowadays... in my flying experience in Premium Eco, it was always around that bar.

In reality, if a company books you a full-flex eco ticket, a lot of colleagues wld choose to top up at check-in too biz or hope for an upgrade.... i myself have been sitting in premium eco (AF, LH for example) and found it a decent offering for the price... somehow, the Arabs do not see it as being a big thing...

trent1000 · Tue May 03, 2016 1:03 pm

Quoting anonms (Reply 34):
and "Delta Three" have a nice ring to them....

with the connotation that you travel like a third class citizen... a very nice 'ring' indeed...

AirbusA6 · Tue May 03, 2016 1:21 pm

I presume this product will be comparable to the Premium Economy cabin that Virgin Atlantic has.

VS Y+ is 7 across on the A330/A340, 7 across on the 789 (which must be quite roomy) and 8 across on the 744, with 21 inch seats according to Seat Guru.

Osubuckeyes · Tue May 03, 2016 3:01 pm

Quoting global1 (Reply 33):
What's wrong with the concept of paying more for convenience and comfort? As consumers we do this constantly in our daily lives.

Even Uber has the option to share a ride if price is of the utmost importance or you can summon an upscale car if that's what you want.

He's not there's something wrong with paying for convenience and comfort... He's saying airlines are actively making their Y product bad/miserable etc... That they are trying to influence customer behavior to pay more by reducing pitch.

Uber doesn't control its product. It would be the equivalent of Uber charging the same prices for Pool and raising the price of X and above, which is the opposite trend of what has happened with Uber. Also, Uber can't really control it's product. Across all levels of the cars the product is somewhat variable.

TheRedBaron · Tue May 03, 2016 6:59 pm

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 21):
That's what I've thought for a while. Business class has improved so much it's now in many way better than first was a couple of decades ago. But that left a big gap between economy and business, and premium economy fills that gap. IMO premium economy is essentially what business class used to be, and business is what first once was.

I completely agree.

I really hope the differences and prices are reasonable so it catches on…

TRB

KarelXWB · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:17 pm

*bump*

Product is called "Delta Premium", info & renders:

Delta Premium will feature:

- More space with up to 38 inches of pitch, up to 19 inches of width and up to seven inches of recline. Delta Premium seats will also offer adjustable leg rests and head rests;
- Westin Heavenly® In-Flight Blanket with pillow and a TUMI amenity kit featuring Malin+Goetz Travel Essentials, allowing customers to settle in and arrive well-rested;
- Pre-departure beverage service followed by fresh, seasonal menu selections presented with Alessi serviceware designed exclusively for Delta;
- A 13.3-inch, high resolution in-flight entertainment screen that is among the largest in its class, allowing customers to stay entertained with Delta Studio’s industry-leading library of complimentary movies, shows and games, and noise-cancelling headphones;
- In-seat power ports for large and small devices and convenient storage to keep them within reach;
- Sky Priority service, which includes faster check-in, accelerated security, priority boarding and expedited baggage service.

Press release:
http://news.delta.com/delta-premium-debut-2017

KarelXWB · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:19 pm

As for the A350 config:

The cabin will be introduced on the airline’s Airbus A350s entering service next year. Delta A350s will feature 48 Delta Premium seats, as well as 32 Delta One suites and 226 Main Cabin seats. Delta Premium will roll out on its Boeing 777 fleet beginning in 2018. Additional fleets may be added.

MIflyer12 · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:21 pm

Good find, KarelXWB, but the real news may be how limited in aircraft types Delta Premium may be found. From the press release you linked:

The cabin will be introduced on the airline’s Airbus A350s entering service next year. Delta A350s will feature 48 Delta Premium seats, as well as 32 Delta One suites and 226 Main Cabin seats. Delta Premium will roll out on its Boeing 777 fleet beginning in 2018. Additional fleets may be added.

lowfareair · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:26 pm

Not bad, I like the leg rest for every passenger whereas I believe AA's is just for the bulkhead. Also looks like they will have more Prem Eco seats than AA in similar size aircraft, although AA's seats will likely be a touch wider on the 787-9 vs the ones in DL's A350 as they have one fewer seat per row but the cabin is only about 6" narrower.

tlecam · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:26 pm

Interestingly, 19" seat width compared to Virgin Atlantic, which has 21" wide seats on their A333's.

If that's an attempt to keep the economy configuration in terms of the number of seats across the width of the plane, I think that the offering will be underwhelming.

mikegigs · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:38 pm

I like it a lot, reminds me of Domestic F but more modern. Like TheRedBaron said 6 months ago, I think the success of this product will rely heavily on finding a "sweet spot" price range, along with getting the word out that this is much different than Comfort+ on the other flights. Speaking of that, will these aircraft still have Comfort+ seats in economy?

Between this and the new Delta One Suites (and AA's F and Y+), I'm glad to see that the US airlines are upping their game and trying to compete with the services of int'l airlines.We'v come a long way since BusinessElite!

KLDC10 · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:41 pm

It looks like an excellent product. The premium headphones and amenity kits shown in the 360 degree view are welcome additions. I also noted the purple mood lighting, but was surprised not to see evidence of other purple accents in the cabin, following the unveiling of the new uniforms.

LawAndOrder · Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:18 pm

N717TW wrote:
A350, right?

How much does anyone want to guess that it also comes to the 777 by keeping 4-5 rows of 3-3-3 seating and then introducing 3-4-3 to the rest of the Y cabin?

It's not happening! As much as people want it to. The 777 will remain 9 abreast at DL!

EMB170 · Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:20 pm

If you go to the DL News website, they've put up some renderings of what "Delta Premium" will look like. Not bad, IMHO. It looks much like the domestic First product, with the quilted seatcovers, etc.

LawAndOrder · Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:20 pm

OA412 wrote:
Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 1):Looks like an old school biz class seat. Wonder how much more that'll cost compared to reg Y.

That's actually AA's new product. It's unclear if DL will have the same seat. But yes, that is essentially what premium economy is. In some ways, we're back to the early days of biz class.

It is the MIQ same premium economy as AA and AA's new first class seat on their planes. Delta has decided to put the foot rest extenders on all rows and not just the first row like AA which is a step up. Also Delta screens will be two inches larger.

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