Swiss aviation thread - 2017 (41)

Alsatian · Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:38 pm

hynithuchi wrote:
They did the same thing when LX ended TLS/ZRH. After a few months only is was curtains again and I can't see them being more sucessful with LYS/ZRH. LX obviously couldn't make it work with all the connecting traffic through ZRH and I seriously doubt the O/D traffic will be sufficient for 3 daily flights, even operated by a 19 seater aircraft. But ok, good luck to them.

The business model of Twin Jet is only intended to business travellers on some niche markets. This new service will be N/S at Lyon allowing good timings for the French business customers unlike the current Swiss schedules.

runway23 wrote:
You can also add MXP-GVA and MRS-GVA. Believe they also had some BSL routes too. Their routes don't stick. Their LYS-ZRH flights are priced at crazy fares - the only way they might make this flight work is if they codeshare with LX and even then...

They have dropped many routes last years indeed (BRE-NUE, SXB-MPL, ETZ-BOD, ETZ-NTE etc...) but we can note some success like when they took over the Lyon - Stuttgart route in 2014 (cancelled by HOP/AF) with two daily flights.

SR380 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:37 pm

[photoid][/photoid]

SCQ83 wrote:
I find almost shocking Swiss cannot make ZRH-LYS work year round. Lyon is France 2nd business market, and a short flight from ZRH so it should be good to get connections.

So they only have now Paris and Nice year-round? Compared to the number of markets Swiss serve in the other large European markets (Germany, UK, Italy, Spain), that seems very few of them.

I am wondering of the fact that flying from LYS is WAY cheaper than from Geneva, therefore some people from GVA are going there by train/car to have better fares, then connect through ZRH, has anything to do with this cancelation... It was a sweet deal

runway23 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:30 pm

SR380 wrote:
I am wondering of the fact that flying from LYS is WAY cheaper than from Geneva, therefore some people from GVA are going there by train/car to have better fares, then connect through ZRH, has anything to do with this cancelation... It was a sweet deal

No it was mainly motivated by needing aircraft to increase ZRH-DUS/TXL following AB collapse, something had to give and it was LYS.

hynithuchi · Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:39 am

runway23 wrote:
SR380 wrote:
I am wondering of the fact that flying from LYS is WAY cheaper than from Geneva, therefore some people from GVA are going there by train/car to have better fares, then connect through ZRH, has anything to do with this cancelation... It was a sweet deal

No it was mainly motivated by needing aircraft to increase ZRH-DUS/TXL following AB collapse, something had to give and it was LYS.

Wasn't it mentionned in an earlier post that the aircraft would be used on opening ZRH/BLQ service ? But whatever, I think that a majority of LYS/ZRH passengers were connecting at ZRH and even this business model must have come under pressure from AF and in particular the TGV rail link to CDG. Simply too litte o/d traffic to improve the yield despite a probabably quite acceptable load factor. As for GVA passengers, I don't believe anybody would ever travel by car to LYS and then take a LX flight via ZRH. The last time I had to travel to LYS by road was in 2011 and honestly, access to the airport, after leaving the motorway from GVA, was something of an adventure ! But then, they may have improved it since.

SR380 · Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:27 am

hynithuchi wrote:
runway23 wrote:
SR380 wrote:
I am wondering of the fact that flying from LYS is WAY cheaper than from Geneva, therefore some people from GVA are going there by train/car to have better fares, then connect through ZRH, has anything to do with this cancelation... It was a sweet deal

No it was mainly motivated by needing aircraft to increase ZRH-DUS/TXL following AB collapse, something had to give and it was LYS.

Wasn't it mentionned in an earlier post that the aircraft would be used on opening ZRH/BLQ service ? But whatever, I think that a majority of LYS/ZRH passengers were connecting at ZRH and even this business model must have come under pressure from AF and in particular the TGV rail link to CDG. Simply too litte o/d traffic to improve the yield despite a probabably quite acceptable load factor. As for GVA passengers, I don't believe anybody would ever travel by car to LYS and then take a LX flight via ZRH. The last time I had to travel to LYS by road was in 2011 and honestly, access to the airport, after leaving the motorway from GVA, was something of an adventure ! But then, they may have improved it since.

Even if I am not proud of it, I have been traveling many time from Lyon. It’s only 1h30 from Geneva by car, the train takes you directly to the airport and fares are sometime 20-30% cheaper! It is insane what LX charges passengers from Geneva or Zürich! What about the rumors that some AB aircrafts will be distributed to LX and WK? Couln’t those aircrafts be used instead?

hynithuchi · Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:06 am

SR380 wrote:
hynithuchi wrote:
runway23 wrote:

No it was mainly motivated by needing aircraft to increase ZRH-DUS/TXL following AB collapse, something had to give and it was LYS.

Wasn't it mentionned in an earlier post that the aircraft would be used on opening ZRH/BLQ service ? But whatever, I think that a majority of LYS/ZRH passengers were connecting at ZRH and even this business model must have come under pressure from AF and in particular the TGV rail link to CDG. Simply too litte o/d traffic to improve the yield despite a probabably quite acceptable load factor. As for GVA passengers, I don't believe anybody would ever travel by car to LYS and then take a LX flight via ZRH. The last time I had to travel to LYS by road was in 2011 and honestly, access to the airport, after leaving the motorway from GVA, was something of an adventure ! But then, they may have improved it since.

Even if I am not proud of it, I have been traveling many time from Lyon. It’s only 1h30 from Geneva by car, the train takes you directly to the airport and fares are sometime 20-30% cheaper! It is insane what LX charges passengers from Geneva or Zürich! What about the rumors that some AB aircrafts will be distributed to LX and WK? Couln’t those aircrafts be used instead?

Shame on you for travelling from LYS... :lol:

runway23 · Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:01 am

SR380 wrote:

Even if I am not proud of it, I have been traveling many time from Lyon. It’s only 1h30 from Geneva by car, the train takes you directly to the airport and fares are sometime 20-30% cheaper! It is insane what LX charges passengers from Geneva or Zürich! What about the rumors that some AB aircrafts will be distributed to LX and WK? Couln’t those aircrafts be used instead?

Huh what train ? The journey from Geneva to LYS is a royal pain by train. You first need to go downtown then take the Rhone Express which is a glorified tram at high prices. The entire journey time and cost is quite high - probably more than most potential savings. By car it might only be 1h30 (if you travel outside of peak times, otherwise another story) you need to add gas, parking and tolls. Also eating into savings.

Bhoy · Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:08 am

Swiss announce new destinations for next summer on twitter:

We will expand our route network in summer with new flights to Bordeaux, Marseille, Kiev and Wroclaw. See http://www.swiss.com/media for more.

runway23 · Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:09 am

Swiss is launching ZRH-BOD (12x weekly), ZRH-MRS (3x weekly), ZRH-KBP (4x weekly) from next March and/or April.

mumf · Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:59 pm

Strange for BOD and MRS. They just deleted ZRH-LYS route, and ZRH-TLS was also deleted last year. So, why launch BOD and MRS now ? Does Zurich focus on tourist destination (with NCE and BIQ) ?

Bhoy · Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:48 am

FOCA have renewed SkyWork's AOC after proof of funds were demonstrated.
Having originally been told their AOC wouldn't be renewed beyond October 31st, they operated no flights on the 30th or 31st, but have resumed operations this morning.

Press release from FOCA (only available in German so far): https://www.bazl.admin.ch/bazl/de/home/ ... 68617.html

hynithuchi · Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:01 am

Just noticed that all AZ flights FCO/GVA vv. today are cancelled. I haven't seen anything about a strike, does anybody know the reason ?

F9flyer · Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:39 pm

hynithuchi wrote:
Just noticed that all AZ flights FCO/GVA vv. today are cancelled. I haven't seen anything about a strike, does anybody know the reason ?

There was a General Strike in Italy that Impacted the Aviation sector to some extent, that may have been it.

JulietteBravo · Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:46 pm

And Edelweiss announces ZRH-EZE for Winter 2018

Discussed here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1378109

SR380 · Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:35 am

JulietteBravo wrote:
And Edelweiss announces ZRH-EZE for Winter 2018

Discussed here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1378109

T[*]

Yeah smart move!

Gaetan · Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:16 am

Some news from Sion Airport.

SWISS will provide 2 return flight to Porto during christmas holidays.

LX2772 SIR1440 – 1605OPO E90 23DEC17
LX2772 SIR1555 – 1720OPO E90 06JAN18

LX2773 OPO1020 – 1340SIR E90 23DEC17
LX2773 OPO1140 – 1500SIR E90 06JAN18

Source : Airlineroute.net

SWISS will also offer flights to and from LHR from Januray 6 to February 24 each saturdays. 2 returns flights from ZRH are also avalaible on 2 saturdays in february. And an additionnel rotation from LCY on February 10 and to LCY on February 17 is also bookable.

A new virtual airline called Powdair will offer flights to ANR, BRS, LTN, MAN, LCY, SOU and SEN station december 11 during the whole ski season using 2 wet-leased CRJ-200 from Blackbone Aviation. Let’s see if it will work !

Bhoy · Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:22 pm

From the Summer timetable 2018 (28 March), Aegean will operate twice a week BSL-ATH.

ATH 11:25 BSL 13:25 FRI A3858 A320
BSL 14:10 ATH 17:55 FRI A3859 A320

ATH 13:05 BSL 15:05 MON A3858 A319
BSL 15:50 ATH 19:35 MON A3859 A319

stylo777 · Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:46 am

At least 3 former AB 330 aircraft are currently sitting in ZRH in front of the SR Technics hangar and as far as one can see, without engines.
Does anyone know which aircraft are these and if they have found any new users?

LX8626 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:12 am

stylo777 wrote:
At least 3 former AB 330 aircraft are currently sitting in ZRH in front of the SR Technics hangar and as far as one can see, without engines.
Does anyone know which aircraft are these and if they have found any new users?

There are currently three A330-200 ex airberlin stored in ZRH.
D-ALPD
D-ALPE
D-ABXD

Each frame is missing one engine.

All three aircraft belonging to lessor AerCap and waiting for a next operator.

MoonC · Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:05 pm

Etihad will operate daily Dreamliner flights to Geneva, Switzerland starting March 25th next year.
The flights will be operated by 3-class 787-9.
Geneva will become the second Swiss city after Zurich to recieve the 787 by Etihad, and 5th in Europe.

Source (in French only): https://abouttravel.ch/industrie-des-voyages/etihad-airways-volera-en-dreamliner-sur-geneve/

hynithuchi · Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:13 pm

Good news, with EY now operating a dreamliner and QR A350, I would consider EK lagging behind with their B777-300. Wonder if they intend upgrading their equipment as well ?

stylo777 · Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:38 pm

Interesting! Why would they remove only one engine of each frame? I mean, it’s not like somebody would come and fly away with it

Capacity in overall on GVA will remain the same with total 231 seats, but less Business and more Economy seats on the 787.
However, the product will surely receive an upgrade.
Ultimatively, I see EK upgrading to 380 as all those frames have to fly somewhere, doesn’t it?

MoonC · Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:58 pm

hynithuchi wrote:
Good news, with EY now operating a dreamliner and QR A350, I would consider EK lagging behind with their B777-300. Wonder if they intend upgrading their equipment as well ?

Emirates will operate 777-300ERs fitted with the new first class cabins starting December 1st.
One of the first two destinations for said cabins along with BRU.

MoonC · Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Interesting! Why would they remove only one engine of each frame? I mean, it’s not like somebody would come and fly away with it

Capacity in overall on GVA will remain the same with total 231 seats, but less Business and more Economy seats on the 787.
However, the product will surely receive an upgrade.
Ultimatively, I see EK upgrading to 380 as all those frames have to fly somewhere, doesn’t it?

Emirates repeatedly asked for A380 service on the route but it always was declined.
GVA is not ready for regular A380 ops nor are they interested in spending money on infrastructure for it just for one airline.
Emirates will stay 777 for a long time to come.

sergegva · Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:13 am

IIRC it's not that GVA is not interested in Emirates' A380. I think they are, because they are always looking for bigger planes to spare slots and (mostly) to reduce noise. But they need a major change in the airport: the closure of the general aviation, and the remplacement of the grass runway (05L/23R) by a new taxiway.

Currently, if an A380 lands on 23, it will exit the runway using taxiways E, F or G & the outer taxiway. But there is not enough space between the outer taxiway and the 3 satellites (it passes but there is too little margin). With the new taxiway, an A380 could turn right at the end of runway 23, then cross the runway where taxiway C currently is, and finally reach the new long haul gates currently under construction (if they didn't change their plans, the most northern gate should be A380-compatible).

Can somebody confirm this? I remember it was discussed some years ago when the A380 made a demonstration flight to GVA.

MoonC · Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:52 am

sergegva wrote:
IIRC it's not that GVA is not interested in Emirates' A380. I think they are, because they are always looking for bigger planes to spare slots and (mostly) to reduce noise. But they need a major change in the airport: the closure of the general aviation, and the remplacement of the grass runway (05L/23R) by a new taxiway.

Currently, if an A380 lands on 23, it will exit the runway using taxiways E, F or G & the outer taxiway. But there is not enough space between the outer taxiway and the 3 satellites (it passes but there is too little margin). With the new taxiway, an A380 could turn right at the end of runway 23, then cross the runway where taxiway C currently is, and finally reach the new long haul gates currently under construction (if they didn't change their plans, the most northern gate should be A380-compatible).

Can somebody confirm this? I remember it was discussed some years ago when the A380 made a demonstration flight to GVA.

Well the only place general aviation will be going is up. Remote spots will be created where the grass runway actually is. The northern part of the airport will be dedicated to general aviation. The southern, to scheduled flights.
But I did read in a file on OFAC's website that 1 or 2 spots on the north will be for code F aircrafts. Emirates' A380s I guess or private 747-8s from the Gulf.

hynithuchi · Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:37 am

sergegva wrote:
IIRC it's not that GVA is not interested in Emirates' A380. I think they are, because they are always looking for bigger planes to spare slots and (mostly) to reduce noise. But they need a major change in the airport: the closure of the general aviation, and the remplacement of the grass runway (05L/23R) by a new taxiway.

Currently, if an A380 lands on 23, it will exit the runway using taxiways E, F or G & the outer taxiway. But there is not enough space between the outer taxiway and the 3 satellites (it passes but there is too little margin). With the new taxiway, an A380 could turn right at the end of runway 23, then cross the runway where taxiway C currently is, and finally reach the new long haul gates currently under construction (if they didn't change their plans, the most northern gate should be A380-compatible).

Can somebody confirm this? I remember it was discussed some years ago when the A380 made a demonstration flight to GVA.

X
Yes, you are correct. I witnessed that demonstation flight and visited the aircraft that time. Space btwn the taxiway and the satellites is not sufficient and the aircraft has to backtrack on the runway to get to the planned parking positions ( 71-75). I doubt GVA will be willing to build an extra taxiway on the grassstrip for EK only as I can't seen any other airline wanting to operate an A380 to GVA It may have good yields but not the kind of potential to fill up an A-380 YCL cabin and I think even EK would struggle to fill an aicraft of that size.
When I talked about an upgrading equipment , I was wondering if EK had any B787 or A350 they could use on this route ( but I don't even know if they have any..)

MoonC · Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:16 am

This is what Geneva Airport will look like.

hynithuchi wrote:
When I talked about an upgrading equipment , I was wondering if EK had any B787 or A350 they could use on this route ( but I don't even know if they have any..)

EK recently ordered 40 x 787-10 and have convertion right for the 787-9 as well.

runway23 · Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:48 am

Basically GVA have always refused EKs requests for A380 flights to GVA as EK have mainly requested them during busy days of the year.

For example they requested an A380 on a Saturday before Christmas and after New Years.

The effect would have meant closing the runway for 15 Minutes to all other traffic the time that EK’s 380 back tracks on the runway to its stand. Knowing how full GVA is on Saturdays you can easily figure out why the airport rejected such a request.

GVA is now a full blown construction site for wide bodies with the new long haul terminal supposed to open in 2020 (possibly even hearing 2022) with a number of wide body stands out of service until then.

There’s no doubt though that an A380 would be a better fit than a 77W for DXB-GVA in terms of the ratio of premium seats to coach, but the current infrastructure in GVA just can’t handle one without major headaches to the rest of the operation.

hynithuchi · Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:35 pm

runway23 wrote:
Basically GVA have always refused EKs requests for A380 flights to GVA as EK have mainly requested them during busy days of the year.

For example they requested an A380 on a Saturday before Christmas and after New Years.

The effect would have meant closing the runway for 15 Minutes to all other traffic the time that EK’s 380 back tracks on the runway to its stand. Knowing how full GVA is on Saturdays you can easily figure out why the airport rejected such a request.

GVA is now a full blown construction site for wide bodies with the new long haul terminal supposed to open in 2020 (possibly even hearing 2022) with a number of wide body stands out of service until then.

There’s no doubt though that an A380 would be a better fit than a 77W for DXB-GVA in terms of the ratio of premium seats to coach, but the current infrastructure in GVA just can’t handle one without major headaches to the rest of the operation.

What, 2022 ??? With my age I'll never see it, seems to me we are trying to compete with BER

sand26391 · Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:45 pm

Hi from Bengaluru,India. Arnd 2 weeks back I was told that the airport authorities in BLR(BIAL) are in talk with a "Western EU" carrier to start flight from next year Winter Schedule. Theres some buzz saying that its likely to be Swiss Airlines. Have anyone heard of this? Thanks

hynithuchi · Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:36 pm

sand26391 wrote:
Hi from Bengaluru,India. Arnd 2 weeks back I was told that the airport authorities in BLR(BIAL) are in talk with a "Western EU" carrier to start flight from next year Winter Schedule. Theres some buzz saying that its likely to be Swiss Airlines. Have anyone heard of this? Thanks

I don't think this to be likely, but I don't know of course. And remember, Switzerland is not part of the EU, so I'm not sure Swiss, although owned by LH, would qualify as an EU carrier.

sand26391 · Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:48 pm

hynithuchi wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
Hi from Bengaluru,India. Arnd 2 weeks back I was told that the airport authorities in BLR(BIAL) are in talk with a "Western EU" carrier to start flight from next year Winter Schedule. Theres some buzz saying that its likely to be Swiss Airlines. Have anyone heard of this? Thanks

I don't think this to be likely, but I don't know of course. And remember, Switzerland is not part of the EU, so I'm not sure Swiss, although owned by LH, would qualify as an EU carrier.

Understood.. thanks and appreciate the reply. Just curious about it....

stylo777 · Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:58 am

runway23 wrote:
Basically GVA have always refused EKs requests for A380 flights to GVA as EK have mainly requested them during busy days of the year.

For example they requested an A380 on a Saturday before Christmas and after New Years.

...interesting; so why didn't they use an additional 77W than?

SR380 · Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:50 am

[threeid][/threeid]

stylo777 wrote:
runway23 wrote:
Basically GVA have always refused EKs requests for A380 flights to GVA as EK have mainly requested them during busy days of the year.

For example they requested an A380 on a Saturday before Christmas and after New Years.

...interesting; so why didn't they use an additional 77W than?

They did. They even fly two daily flight now on a regular basis

MoonC · Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:17 am

If everything goes well, Geneva should see Ethiopian Airlines next year.

hynithuchi · Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:39 pm

MoonC wrote:
If everything goes well, Geneva should see Ethiopian Airlines next year.

Great news, although ET has been mentionned several times before. What's your latest source ? Can it be taken seriously or is your information only verbal from some of the many "insiders " ?

MoonC · Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:21 pm

hynithuchi wrote:
MoonC wrote:
If everything goes well, Geneva should see Ethiopian Airlines next year.

Great news, although ET has been mentionned several times before. What's your latest source ? Can it be taken seriously or is your information only verbal from some of the many "insiders " ?

You can take it seriously.

SR380 · Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:12 pm

If this can be taken seriously what type will they be flying? Will this be a extension of a current route or will they open non-stop Service?

MoonC · Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:20 pm

No idea.

hynithuchi · Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:49 pm

SR380 wrote:
If this can be taken seriously what type will they be flying? Will this be a extension of a current route or will they open non-stop Service?

I just hope they won't link GVA with ORD, from another airline's experience ( KU ) I can tell it would be a programmed failure.

MoonC · Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:56 pm

All I can confirm is there are steps taken both by Genève Aéroport and Ethiopian Airlines. I don't know what will be used (I'm guessing 787-8 for a start) and don't know if it will be a terminator or triangular routing.

runway23 · Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:58 pm

stylo777 wrote:
runway23 wrote:
Basically GVA have always refused EKs requests for A380 flights to GVA as EK have mainly requested them during busy days of the year.

For example they requested an A380 on a Saturday before Christmas and after New Years.

...interesting; so why didn't they use an additional 77W than?

They had 3 flights on some days so clearly it is what they did.

SR380 · Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:03 pm

MoonC wrote:
All I can confirm is there are steps taken both by Genève Aéroport and Ethiopian Airlines. I don't know what will be used (I'm guessing 787-8 for a start) and don't know if it will be a terminator or triangular routing.

If this materialized this will be a nice addition to Geneva with easier connection to all subsaharan Africa

hynithuchi · Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:58 am

Definitely, a link with subsaharan Africa has been long overdue, ever since the demise of RK and SR, although SR had already cancelled their GVA stop in 1996.

pmartin · Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:25 am

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... fr-443108/

He is one of the sources.

"The carrier has expanded rapidly in China – a country which has invested heavily in Africa – adding Chengdu to its network last summer and looking at starting Shenzhen flights in 2018. It will also add Buenos Aires, Chicago and Geneva to its long-haul network next year."

hynithuchi · Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:56 am

Thank you, so things seem to be taking shape.

DALCE · Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:20 pm

Delivery of the next CS3 for LX is due for Wednesday. HB-JCF. Expected to arrive in ZRH in the evening.

DUSZRH · Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:40 pm

Darwin Air aka Adria Air Switzerland/EY Regional has filed for bankruptcy protection.

LSZH34 · Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:27 pm

DALCE wrote:
Delivery of the next CS3 for LX is due for Wednesday. HB-JCF. Expected to arrive in ZRH in the evening.

Is this the supposedly last CS delivery for this year or will we get to see -JCG as an unexpected christmas present?

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