China Southern Sells 757 Fleet To Boeing

KarelXWB · Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:18 am

In exchange for buying 80 737 jets, China Southern will return all 13 757 jets to Boeing.

Source
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSH9N10G01H20151217

airlineaddict · Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:32 pm

Let the speculation begin... Would these be taken up by DL, FX, UA?

anfromme · Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting airlineaddict (Reply 1):
Let the speculation begin... Would these be taken up by DL, FX, UA?

No, they'll go to the scrapyard as Boeing wants to drum up enough support/demand for their new MOM project, and putting airlines on withdrawal from 757s seems like a good way. Alternatively, they'll finally strap new engines on those 757s to kick off a 757MAX programme.

Just messing, of course. In the US, DL seems a good candidate; I somehow have a feeling they may end up overseas, though.

roseflyer · Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:42 pm

Quoting airlineaddict (Reply 1):
Let the speculation begin... Would these be taken up by DL, FX, UA?

My best guess is that they'll end up being turned into freighters. The freighter conversion market is hot right now. 757-200s and 767-300s are in hot demand among the air freight companies. Low oil prices are driving up air freight demand. Unlike passenger demand which is relatively inelastic due to oil prices (fares are slow to drop and airlines are slow to add capacity) the freight market swings quite significantly. If oil prices are low, air freight starts looking more attractive compared to trucks, rail or sea. When oil prices are low, there aren't suddenly tons of more people wanting to fly instead of drive.

GCT64 · Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:49 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 2):
I somehow have a feeling they may end up overseas, though.

Looking at the age of the CZ 757s, I think you may be correct. About half are quite late build (high l/n) airframes, so FI would be a strong candidate as the next operator. On the other hand, they don't appear to have winglets which may make them less attractive.

BHXLOVER · Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:59 pm

Would Boeing actually want to resell them as passenger aircraft?

sxf24 · Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting BHXLOVER (Reply 5):
Would Boeing actually want to resell them as passenger aircraft?

If Boeing could make money, yes. Boeing sold ex-Shanghai 757s to Delta.

Polot · Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting BHXLOVER (Reply 5):
Would Boeing actually want to resell them as passenger aircraft?

If someone offers enough money for them sure.

roseflyer · Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:51 pm

Quoting gct64 (Reply 4):
On the other hand, they don't appear to have winglets which may make them less attractive.

Not having winglets is sometimes attractive for freighter conversion.

Quoting BHXLOVER (Reply 5):
Would Boeing actually want to resell them as passenger aircraft?

They absolutely would sell them. Boeing buys and sells many airplanes through its capital division. They even buy and sell Embraer & Airbus planes too.

kelvin933 · Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:03 pm

Quoting gct64 (Reply 4):
Looking at the age of the CZ 757s, I think you may be correct. About half are quite late build (high l/n) airframes, so FI would be a strong candidate as the next operator. On the other hand, they don't appear to have winglets which may make them less attractive.

What makes them unlikely for FI is the lack of double wing exits.

catiii · Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:08 pm

Quoting airlineaddict (Reply 1):
FX,

This makes the most sense.

Quoting gct64 (Reply 4):
n the other hand, they don't appear to have winglets which may make them less attractive.

Winglets are an easy mod though.

Quoting BHXLOVER (Reply 5):
Would Boeing actually want to resell them as passenger aircraft?

As noted above yes, in addition to the fact that Boeing also just resold 20 Embraers to Delta, and I believe the 717 fleet DL bought from SW came via Boeing as the broker.

[Edited 2015-12-17 07:17:25]

ScottB · Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:13 pm

Quoting BHXLOVER (Reply 5):
Would Boeing actually want to resell them as passenger aircraft?

Absolutely. Used 757s parked in the desert don't make any money for Boeing. Selling them on to a passenger or freight airline would get them cash as part of the sale and provide a revenue stream from the sale of spares as well.

Quoting gct64 (Reply 4):
About half are quite late build (high l/n) airframes, so FI would be a strong candidate as the next operator. On the other hand, they don't appear to have winglets which may make them less attractive.

It's really not that difficult to fit winglets to 757s, although the need is somewhat less in a period of low oil prices. But I can absolutely see these aircraft finding a home at FI or DL.

VictorKilo · Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:37 pm

These planes are older than the ex-Shanghai 757's recently acquired by Delta, and perhaps most importantly, are RR birds, while DL's fleet, including birds from PMDL, PMNW, ex-Shanghai, and ex-TWA (via AA) are PW birds.

As such I don't expect DL will take them up.

Devilfish · Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:52 pm

Quoting kelvin933 (Reply 9):

What makes them unlikely for FI is the lack of double wing exits.

.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):
But I can absolutely see these aircraft finding a home at FI

As long as those can still ship a lot of fish.....

[Edited 2015-12-17 08:38:51]

Thenoflyzone · Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:01 pm

Quoting gct64 (Reply 4):
, they don't appear to have winglets which may make them less attractive.

With the price of oil so low, the ROI on winglets is longer and might not be worth it, especially if FX picks them up. Cargo operators don't push the 757 to its range limit either. Another reason why the winglets aren't worth it.

American 767 · Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting airlineaddict (Reply 1):
Would these be taken up by DL, FX, UA?

I don't think United would take them, because they don't buy used second planes like Delta does, oh maybe they do but not as much as Delta does. I think United would rather buy brand new 737-800/900ER and 8/9MAX variants. I don't see Untied adding used 757s. And neither would American.
Delta yes, they would be more likely to pick them up. Delta is know to pick up second hand planes from other sources, other airlines or leasing companies. An issue to consider is the engines, RR vs PW, though NW did fly RR powered 757s when they merged with Republic almost 30 years ago.
Fed Ex, yes, if they are looking for additional 757s, then they would convert them to freighters.

DualQual · Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:45 pm

Of the U.S. carriers, I'd bank on FX (especially if they are sans winglets). UA is actively scouring the market for used 73G and A319 aircraft so their attention seems to be on the smaller end. With that said, for the right price nothing is outside the realm of possibility (I'd love to see them at UA) but, unfortunately, I don't think it's realistic.

Spacepope · Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 15):
Fed Ex, yes, if they are looking for additional 757s, then they would convert them to freighters.

That's the thing, I don't think FX is looking to add any more 757s besides the ones already slated for freighter conversion.

frmrCapCadet · Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:48 pm

Is Iceland needing any?

clickhappy · Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:40 pm

They won't be taken up by UA. There are something like 10-12 ex-UA 757 currently parked up at GYR.

MCOflyer · Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 19):
They won't be taken up by UA. There are something like 10-12 ex-UA 757 currently parked up at GYR.

Are they PW and RR ones that are in the desert???

KH

clickhappy · Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:54 pm

will post a couple of shots later, I don't recall.

Polot · Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:55 pm

PW. UA is not getting rid of any PMCO 757s (RR equipped) yet.

litz · Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 8):
They even buy and sell Embraer & Airbus planes too.

They just sold a bunch of E-190s to DL (along with the 737-900s)

HPRamper · Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 10):
This makes the most sense.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 14):
With the price of oil so low, the ROI on winglets is longer and might not be worth it, especially if FX picks them up.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 16):
Of the U.S. carriers, I'd bank on FX (especially if they are sans winglets).

FX is done taking 757s. There are still some in mod if I remember correctly, once they take delivery of all of them it'll be right around 120 and FX has stated many times they are finished with the 757.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 17):
That's the thing, I don't think FX is looking to add any more 757s besides the ones already slated for freighter conversion.

One note however, some of the 757s FX does have indeed came from China Southern.

UA444 · Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:55 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 24):
is done taking 757s. There are still some in mod if I remember correctly, once they take delivery of all of them it'll be right around 120 and FX has stated many times they are finished with the 757.

Was that before fuel prices had a dramatic fall? I can see them dumping more A310s and buying more of the unclaimed UA birds or these ones.

DHL is also looking for newer 757s.

warreng24 · Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting mcoflyer (Reply 20):
Are they PW and RR ones that are in the desert???

UA is currently parking only PW powered birds.

jetstar · Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:17 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):

It's really not that difficult to fit winglets to 757s, although the need is somewhat less in a period of low oil prices. But I can absolutely see these aircraft finding a home at FI or DL.

I think I read somewhere that winglets are not approved for the freighter conversions so that would make them more valuable for conversion.

JetStar

rta · Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:04 am

I don't see UA or AA picking these up as it seems like they're getting rid of most of their 757s. And with the different engines, I'm not sure how much DL would want them.

Sevensixtyseven · Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:38 am

I wonder if American could use some of the newer builds to backfill the retirement of the oldest 757s in their fleet from 1986 ex-America West frames.

Spacepope · Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting jetstar (Reply 27):

752 combi
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sascha Kretschmer

Asia Pacific has N757qm flying as a full freighter with winglets. Apparently conversions of winglet equipped 757s started in 2012.

b747400erf · Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:03 am

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 3):
and 767-300s are in hot demand among the air freight companies.

The BA 767's are going to the scrapper aren't they?

Dahlgardo · Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:17 am

I just returned from a trip to the boneyards in the SW US, and they were packed with stored 757s.

13 at VCV, many of which has been bought by FDX (for spares?)
22 at GYR, mostly ex UA
40 at MZJ, mostly ex DL/NW
and at least 44 ex AA at Roswell, many of which are being scrapped.

Steelhead · Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:32 am

CargoJet also has a winglet-equipped B-757-freighter:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/steelhe...rxzvYn-wxv7g4-vtFUtE-rarQcK-rhdJcy

STT757 · Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:21 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 19):
They won't be taken up by UA. There are something like 10-12 ex-UA 757 currently parked up at GYR.

Quoting mcoflyer (Reply 20):
Are they PW and RR ones that are in the desert???

Quoting Polot (Reply 22):
PW. UA is not getting rid of any PMCO 757s (RR equipped) yet.

Quoting warreng24 (Reply 26):
UA is currently parking only PW powered birds.

UA could acquire these 757s and park the remaining PW powered, non ER, 757-200s currently operating P.S. flights. This would allow them to take advantage of their commonality with their existing RR powered 757-200s. This would give them more flexibility by standardizing their 757-200s to all ETOPs RR powered with International / PS interiors. Thus they would be able to fly these on routes such as EWR-OSL or IAD-LIS as well as EWR-LAX/SFO.

Revelation · Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 13):
As long as those can still ship a lot of fish.....

Indeed!

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 12):
These planes are older than the ex-Shanghai 757's recently acquired by Delta

If http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/C...0Airlines-active-b757-0-regasc.htm is correct, the dates vary from 1993 to 2003.

MSN LN Type Delivery date Registration
32341 961 757-28S 01/03/2003 B-2812
32342 966 757-28S 01/03/2003 B-2813
25888 575 757-21B 17/09/1993 B-2823
25889 583 757-21B 04/11/1993 B-2824
25890 585 757-21B 12/11/1993 B-2825
26156 503 757-2Y0 01/03/2003 B-2827
32343 1015 757-28S 01/03/2003 B-2830
26153 482 757-2Y0 01/03/2003 B-2831
25598 445 757-236 03/06/1993 B-2835
27260 613 757-2Z0 02/05/1994 B-2838
29215 797 757-28S 01/03/2003 B-2851
29216 811 757-28S 01/03/2003 B-2853
29217 868 757-28S 01/03/2003 B-2859

hilram · Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:55 pm

Quoting kelvin933 (Reply 9):
What makes them unlikely for FI is the lack of double wing exits.

Hi, Kelvin. Why would this be a problem for Icelandair?

codc10 · Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:06 pm

I think FX is done with 757 freighter conversions.

These 757s are RR-powered, so I am not sure if DL would be interested in an oddball engine for a small fleet. UAL has RR 752s, but these aircraft would have a non-standard door configuration and UA doesn't really need more large narrowbodies at present.

My bet would be on FI, or a piecemeal freighter conversion to a variety of carriers.

B-HOP · Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:20 pm

Looks like Xiamen is the only Chinese carrier left with 757's, CZ's 757 are now all based in Xinjiang working from the Urumqi base flying to the CIS/Middle East and Tibet, taking advantage of the type's hot and high performance, looks like the 737MAX could do just that. I guess it could be either FI, or inclusive tour operatorlike BY or Condor who would be interested in them, given their relative young age, I could also bet my money on SF Airlines in Shenzhen (Chinese courier) who would be interested in those, given SF already have the type.

Kevin

xjet · Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:42 pm

EAT is adding a lot of 757 freighters for DHL in Europe. But I am guessing those have already been sourced.

Steelhead · Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:45 pm

CargoJet also has a winglet-equipped B-757-freighter:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/steelhe...rxzvYn-wxv7g4-vtFUtE-rarQcK-rhdJcy

Spacepope · Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 31):

The BA 767's are going to the scrapper aren't they?

Yes. It's the oddball RR engine that's sealing their fate.

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 32):
I just returned from a trip to the boneyards in the SW US, and they were packed with stored 757s.

13 at VCV, many of which has been bought by FDX (for spares?

There's a distinct lack of scrapping photos from ROW, please share if you get a chance.

The UA 757s that went to VCV are in line for conversion for FX, the ones that went to GYR are AFAIK not spoken for.

UA444 · Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 34):

The commonality isn't really an issue since UA has long done the overhauls on the PW engines themselves.

Andy33 · Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:49 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 31):
The BA 767's are going to the scrapper aren't they?

Yes, partly because they are amongst the very few 767s with RR engines.

Dahlgardo · Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:33 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 41):
There's a distinct lack of scrapping photos from ROW, please share if you get a chance.

The UA 757s that went to VCV are in line for conversion for FX, the ones that went to GYR are AFAIK not spoken for.

Roswell is a hard place to photograph at if you don't do an overflight or get airside.
Haze is big problem, it's difficult to get close to the scrapping areas and the planes are parked very close.
It's not my impression many aircraft leave ROW in one piece. Stewart Indistries is a very efficient company!

Here's a few pictures. It's N613AA and 2 unknowns.

Dahlgardo · Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:44 pm

Quoting B-HOP (Reply 38):
Looks like Xiamen is the only Chinese carrier left with 757's, CZ's 757 are now all based in Xinjiang working from the Urumqi base flying to the CIS/Middle East and Tibet, taking advantage of the type's hot and high performance, looks like the 737MAX could do just that. I guess it could be either FI, or inclusive tour operatorlike BY or Condor who would be interested in them, given their relative young age, I could also bet my money on SF Airlines in Shenzhen (Chinese courier) who would be interested in those, given SF already have the type.

There seems to be a rule enforced in China that prohibits airlines to operate passenger aircraft older than 20 years.
You just don't see old pax aircraft operating in China.

Cargo aircraft don't seem to be subject to this rule.

BA174 · Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:59 pm

Quoting kelvin933 (Reply 9):
What makes them unlikely for FI is the lack of double wing exits.

They already operate both over overwing and "hatch" configured 757s so I doubt that would be an issue.

klkla · Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:40 pm

I could see DL taking them plus another 20 737-900ERs if the price is right, unless Richard's tweet about the cheap 777 he bought pissed them off too much.

kelvin933 · Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:17 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 36):

Hi, Kelvin. Why would this be a problem for Icelandair?

In the past FI has stayed away from 757s that do not have double overwing exits.
The reason seems to be a reluctance to fragment the fleet, the cabin configuration would be different,
the FA training would also be different (different exit configuration).
Operating different configurations increases operating costs, FI is tight fisted with money.

kelvin933 · Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:46 pm

Quoting BA174 (Reply 46):
They already operate both over overwing and "hatch" configured 757s so I doubt that would be an issue.

They have two 'hatch' 757s TF-FIC and TF-FIW and it is not a coincidence that these aircraft tend to operate for Loftleidir - Icelandic the wet lease arm of FI.

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