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ikolkyo
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Re: 737-MAX Updates?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:18 am

Found a video of the stored 737 MAX jets at Renton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItIfTP_MKac
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:27 am

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
chiki
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:54 pm

737 max noise testing from Randy Blog
http://bcove.me/9u57zecq
 
Passedv1
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Re: 737-MAX Updates?

Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:13 pm

SWADawg wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
If there is a cliffhanger with the Max program , it involves the launch customer Southwest.
Will the WN pilots approve a new contract to cover the new birds coming on property
by next summer?

That's completely up to WN Management. If they agree to a market rate contract within the next few months then yes. If not, those MAX's will remain parked up in Renton until they do.


Is there something about this that makes this more than union posturing?

Under normal circumstances the pilots not flying the jets would constitute an illegal job action since it would not be approved by the NMB. If it is just about the job rates (not safety/regulatory) then contract law under the NMB would require them to "fly then grieve". Damage mitigation principles apply to both sides so in the absence of an agreed upon rate, SWA would guess at a reasonable rate and pay the pilots. The pilots would then use the grievance process to be made-whole once the rate was finally determined.
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:49 pm

WN had one of the Boeing painted 737MAX fly to DAL and a few other cities, to show off to their crews and alike, last there is a post on A,net someplace.
Just an MSPAVGEEK
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: 737-MAX Updates?

Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:24 pm

Passedv1 wrote:

Is there something about this that makes this more than union posturing?

.


We'll know in a little over a month.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/busin ... 18617.html
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:46 pm

1st 737 MAX has completed its flight testing, will be refurbished and delivered to SWA next year.

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 5420876800
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:01 am

new photos emerged from Renton Factory :

- Southwest Airlines (Boeing livery) N8701Q LN 5602 (returned to Renton after Testing for Refurbishment)

ImageN8701Q by planesguy, on Flickr

- Southwest Airlines (full livery) N8705Q LN 5852 (stored without engines)

ImageN8705Q by planesguy, on Flickr

- Southwest Airlines (full livery) N8706W LN 5902 (stored without engines)

ImageN8706W by planesguy, on Flickr

- Lion Air (all white - red winglets) PK-??? LN 5948 (stored without engines)

ImagePK- by planesguy, on Flickr

- Southwest Airlines (full livery) N8707P LN 5992 (stored without engines)

ImageN8707P by planesguy, on Flickr

- Lion Air (all white - red winglets) PK-??? LN 6034 (stored without engines)

ImagePK- by planesguy, on Flickr

- Southwest Airlines (full livery) N8708Q LN 6074 (stored without engines)

ImageN8708Q by planesguy, on Flickr

- Lion Air (all white - red winglets) PK-??? LN 6114 (stored without engines) NOTE this aircraft has Yellow tail fin

ImagePK- by planesguy, on Flickr
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:42 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
The first 737 MAX-9 test plane is going into production.

First one is LN6250.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... n-Airlines
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:02 am

Will Norwegian become the launch operator instead of Southwest?

Fast forward to 2016 and both programmes are flying: the A320neo is actually in revenue service and the 737 Max 8 in a flight-test programme that promises delivery of the first aircraft to launch operator Norwegian in May 2017. But in the meantime, crude oil prices have declined significantly and the operating cost/fuel efficiency imperative that drove Airbus and Boeing to launch these new derivatives has eased fundamentally. This has driven many to question both demand for – and the value of – the Neo and Max in this new paradigm.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ar-429943/
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Newbiepilot
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:13 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Will Norwegian become the launch operator instead of Southwest?

Fast forward to 2016 and both programmes are flying: the A320neo is actually in revenue service and the 737 Max 8 in a flight-test programme that promises delivery of the first aircraft to launch operator Norwegian in May 2017. But in the meantime, crude oil prices have declined significantly and the operating cost/fuel efficiency imperative that drove Airbus and Boeing to launch these new derivatives has eased fundamentally. This has driven many to question both demand for – and the value of – the Neo and Max in this new paradigm.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ar-429943/


Being is planning to deliver the 737MAX earlier than planned, but Southwest might not have pilots ready. There have been concerns about needing a separate pilot group since the 737CL,NG and MAX can't necessarily be flown by the same pilots. Southwest could not create a sub group of pilots under the old contract so they might have to retire the 737-300s before the MAX can come. That would take longer which is why a different airline might be the first operator. Here are some articles.

https://skift.com/2016/04/21/southwest- ... etirement/

https://skift.com/2016/09/24/southwest- ... -schedule/

The good news is that the pilots are finally getting a new contract, so that could solve the problem.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-s ... usiness%29

With pretty much every airplane in recent development delivering late, an airplane delivering early is a bit of a new problem to have.
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:58 pm

According to Flight Ops management just a few days ago, Southwest WILL be the launch customer and first operator of the MAX. The lawsuit that was filed by SWAPA to keep Southwest from operating the MAX has been dropped in Federal Court and there should be no further delays. I expect Southwest to take early delivery of the first set of MAX's in late Spring of next year.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:21 pm

As for the Norwegian deliveries:

Norwegian Air expects the tickets to fly from the new bases to go on sale early next year, with flights starting in June or July. The airline’s first two 737 Max planes are due in May, with four more to follow in June.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/norwegian-a ... 1480943867

Still nothing on the production list, will Norwegian take some of the Southwest frames perhaps?
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N837MH
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:41 am

Do you know about KAL's B737 MAX 8 assembly and delivery?
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:14 am

6114 pictured above is/was supposed to be going to Thai Lion Air (although Lion Group do like to swap these around at the last minute). That colour rudder matches Pegasus Airlines and they do have 737-8s on order so there could be something in it. I wonder if there's been a reallocation? Unfortunately production and firing order info on the Max's seems to be in short supply. If there are any 737NG mechanics reading this there is an easy way to get the production info if you have access to the Boeing Maintenance Performance Toolbox, however you'd need to be working for an airline that has the Max on order.
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:18 am

RobK wrote:
6114 pictured above is/was supposed to be going to Thai Lion Air (although Lion Group do like to swap these around at the last minute). That colour rudder matches Pegasus Airlines and they do have 737-8s on order so there could be something in it. I wonder if there's been a reallocation? Unfortunately production and firing order info on the Max's seems to be in short supply. If there are any 737NG mechanics reading this there is an easy way to get the production info if you have access to the Boeing Maintenance Performance Toolbox, however you'd need to be working for an airline that has the Max on order.


Pegasus went for the A320neo, no MAX.
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:29 am

Sorry yes, I stand corrected. I saw some unfilled 737 orders for them and assumed the Max but I guess they must be NGs. However it still doesn't alter the fact it has a rudder colour matching their livery, although it does still have Lion winglets. It's possible that Thai Lion Air might be getting a new livery too of course. It's also possible that given their sizeable 737NG fleet they may have the Max on order as well but hasn't been publicly announced. Questions, questions.. !

TC-CPZ rudder for comparison : https://flic.kr/p/BundyB
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:06 am

I guess you mean this aircraft:

Image
Uploaded by Matt Cawby https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/806727185549512704
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bmibaby737
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:12 pm

Just looks like it will have a special tail, much like their 50th, 60th, 70th, 80th, 90th 737 liveries etc.
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:07 pm

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:20 pm

Things seem to be rolling with the 737 MAX

N8701Q is currently undergoing rework, will be delivered to Southwest, (Wonder what they are doing with the tail?)

https://twitter.com/woody2190/status/821101680821301248

It has also been reported that the first aircraft for Lion Air (L/N unknown) and Southwest (N8710M, L/N 6188) are inside getting their engines and interiors installed .

https://twitter.com/woody2190/status/821064458327855104
https://twitter.com/woody2190/status/821064837971124225

First MAX 9 aircraft is close to roll out

https://twitter.com/woody2190/status/821065182466084864
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:24 am

I have to say this program is being run like the old Boeing. Quiet and on time. Hopefully it is meeting the mark.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:30 am

Probably lots of test equipment and sensors that needs to be removed from the tail.

Image
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 3429226496
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:59 pm

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:33 am

Boeing targets some 50 to 75 MAX deliveries this year.

Boeing sees around 10-15% of its single-aisle deliveries in 2017 being 737 Max models

https://twitter.com/R_Wall/status/824294043924463620
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:37 am

Nice to hear, any idea when certification is due? Seems like it will be any day now.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:22 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Nice to hear, any idea when certification is due? Seems like it will be any day now.


Wonder what the "hang up"' is. Engine issues? Airplane issues? If they're already into refurb on #1 they should be done. They're year plus time frame was way overkill for a program like this -- way too conservative.

As soon as it's certified it will be delivered a month +/- later.

737-300 First flight Feb 24th, 1984
Certification November 14th +/-, 1984
First customer flight November 26th, 1984

737-700 First flight Feb 9th, 1997
Certification November, 1997
First customer flight December, 1997

777-200 First flight June 12th, 1994
Certification April 19th, 1995
First customer flight May 10th, 1995

Two 9 month programs, one 11 month program,

737 Max 8 First flight January 29th, 2016 -- almost 12 months and counting -- has Boeing lost it's way??????
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:37 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
737 Max 8 First flight January 29th, 2016 -- almost 12 months and counting -- has Boeing lost it's way??????

As time goes on certification gets more difficult and time consuming due to additional requirements and greater focus by authorities on lessons learned in the past.

A320neo:
First Flight: Sep 25 2014
Certification: Nov 24 2015 (14 months later)
First Delivery: Jan 20 2016

Right now the 737max seems to be right on track for a re-engine (and the Max has more changes over the NG than the Neo over the Ceo).
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:10 pm

First delivery is still scheduled for May, followed by Southwest in July.

Norwegian looks set the be the launch operator of the 737 Max 8. First delivery expected in May, EIS in June/July, execs have said.


Southwest response to that:

Southwest's first 737 MAX 8 is scheduled to arrive in July & be placed into rev service Oct. 1. Southwest is the 737 MAX 8 launch customer.

"We’re the launch customer [of the 737 Max] regardless of when we take the first delivery," says $LUV CEO Kelly

"We don’t really need them for flying until October 1," he continues. Plans for EIS end of 3Q17.


https://twitter.com/e_russell
https://twitter.com/jonostrower
https://twitter.com/e_russell
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7BOEING7
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:09 pm

Polot wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
737 Max 8 First flight January 29th, 2016 -- almost 12 months and counting -- has Boeing lost it's way??????

As time goes on certification gets more difficult and time consuming due to additional requirements and greater focus by authorities on lessons learned in the past.

Right now the 737max seems to be right on track for a re-engine (and the Max has more changes over the NG than the Neo over the Ceo).


A more recent example would have been the 787-9 with a first flight on September 17th, 2013 followed by certification on June 16th, 2014 and first customer flight in early June of 2014 -- the first airplane not entering refurb until after certification. One could argue how large a difference there is between the -8 and -9 but some on a.net think it's an issue.
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:12 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
First delivery is still scheduled for May, followed by Southwest in July.

Norwegian looks set the be the launch operator of the 737 Max 8. First delivery expected in May, EIS in June/July, execs have said.


Southwest response to that:

Southwest's first 737 MAX 8 is scheduled to arrive in July & be placed into rev service Oct. 1. Southwest is the 737 MAX 8 launch customer.

"We’re the launch customer [of the 737 Max] regardless of when we take the first delivery," says $LUV CEO Kelly

"We don’t really need them for flying until October 1," he continues. Plans for EIS end of 3Q17.


Kelly is correct, "launch customer" is a real term -- "launch operator" is a term made up by the PR department and used by some on a.net but not commonly otherwise.
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:16 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
Polot wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
737 Max 8 First flight January 29th, 2016 -- almost 12 months and counting -- has Boeing lost it's way??????

As time goes on certification gets more difficult and time consuming due to additional requirements and greater focus by authorities on lessons learned in the past.

Right now the 737max seems to be right on track for a re-engine (and the Max has more changes over the NG than the Neo over the Ceo).


A more recent example would have been the 787-9 with a first flight on September 17th, 2013 followed by certification on June 16th, 2014 and first customer flight in early June of 2014 -- the first airplane not entering refurb until after certification. One could argue how large a difference there is between the -8 and -9 but some on a.net think it's an issue.


The 787-9 required much less test flying because it was a derivative. The MAX-9 and MAX-7 will also require much less test flying than the MAX-8.

The base model requires much more test flying.

Unfortunately Boeing didn't give any numbers. But if we look at the A350: the -900 needed to complete 2,500 hours test flying while the -1000 "only" needs to complete 1,500 hours of test flying.
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Boeing778X
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:21 pm

AA gets their first unit this year. Anyone know what frame/line that will be?
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7BOEING7
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:30 pm

KarelXWB wrote:

The 787-9 required much less test flying because it was a derivative. The MAX-9 and MAX-7 will also require much less test flying than the MAX-8.

The base model requires much more test flying.

Unfortunately Boeing didn't give any numbers. But if we look at the A350: the -900 needed to complete 2,500 hours test flying while the -1000 "only" needs to complete 1,500 hours of test flying.


Can't disagree with that, however tearing the instrumentation out/refurbishing of the #1 test bird 4-5 months before certification doesn't make any sense under any circumstances.
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:37 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
however tearing the instrumentation out/refurbishing of the #1 test bird 4-5 months before certification doesn't make any sense under any circumstances


Agreed; that's something we haven't seen before, at least not on the 787/A380/A350/A320neo.
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7BOEING7
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:40 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
however tearing the instrumentation out/refurbishing of the #1 test bird 4-5 months before certification doesn't make any sense under any circumstances


Agreed; that's something we haven't seen before, at least not on the 787/A380/A350/A320neo.


Or the 737(733 and on), 747(744 and on), 757, 767, and 777.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:43 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
however tearing the instrumentation out/refurbishing of the #1 test bird 4-5 months before certification doesn't make any sense under any circumstances


Agreed; that's something we haven't seen before, at least not on the 787/A380/A350/A320neo.


Or the 737(733 and on), 747(744 and on), 757, 767, and 777.


Thanks, I'm not familiar with the flight test campaigns of those programs.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:44 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
however tearing the instrumentation out/refurbishing of the #1 test bird 4-5 months before certification doesn't make any sense under any circumstances


Agreed; that's something we haven't seen before, at least not on the 787/A380/A350/A320neo.


Or the 737(733 and on), 747(744 and on), 757, 767, and 777.


Could certification and first delivery be less than 4-5 months away. I agree, airplanes delivering early is something that we haven't seen in a while.
 
WIederling
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:07 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Polot wrote:
As time goes on certification gets more difficult and time consuming due to additional requirements and greater focus by authorities on lessons learned in the past.

Right now the 737max seems to be right on track for a re-engine (and the Max has more changes over the NG than the Neo over the Ceo).


A more recent example would have been the 787-9 with a first flight on September 17th, 2013 followed by certification on June 16th, 2014 and first customer flight in early June of 2014 -- the first airplane not entering refurb until after certification. One could argue how large a difference there is between the -8 and -9 but some on a.net think it's an issue.


The 787-9 required much less test flying because it was a derivative. The MAX-9 and MAX-7 will also require much less test flying than the MAX-8.
.

the changes from 788 to 789 were obviously much bigger than from 737NG to 737MAX.
they changed nearly everything.
MAX ist just new engines and a set of new tail feathers. :-)
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KarelXWB
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:45 pm

American Airlines delivery schedule:

Image
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... 01Nw%3d%3d
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A388
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:03 pm

Any idea on where those (initial) 737-8MAX's will fly to? I assume within North America first, followed by the Caribbean?


A388
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:17 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
American Airlines delivery schedule:

Image
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... 01Nw%3d%3d


Very informative and valuable! Thanks Karel!
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:22 am

According to ATDB, Oman Air's first MAX-8 is LN 6274.
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boefan
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:56 am

ImageImpossible.... by John Crowley, on Flickr

Above you can see a Southwest Airlies MAX8 with engines installed in the background .

KarelXWB wrote:
According to ATDB, Oman Air's first MAX-8 is LN 6274.


Strange according to the link below the 737MAX is not due until 2019

http://atwonline.com/airframes/oman-air ... oeing-737s
 
benbeny
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:46 pm

Any news on SEA operators? Would love to see them in this part of the world!
 
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Saskatchewan
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:18 pm

When will Westjets first MAX roll off the line? I do believe they plan on having the first one on their property this summer
 
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RobK
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:36 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
According to ATDB, Oman Air's first MAX-8 is LN 6274.


Hi Karel, that info is incorrect. It's an Air Lease Corp 737-800 which will be leased to Oman Air.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:07 pm

RobK wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
According to ATDB, Oman Air's first MAX-8 is LN 6274.


Hi Karel, that info is incorrect. It's an Air Lease Corp 737-800 which will be leased to Oman Air.


Ok, the ATDB is probably not updated yet.
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Okcflyer
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:29 pm

Does the MAX8 come standard with what used to be Short Field Package (SFP)? 900ER had it standard, I assume MAX9 has it standard.
 
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX Production Thread - Part 1

Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:03 pm

boefan wrote:
Above you can see a Southwest Airlies MAX8 with engines installed in the background .


Image
https://www.flickr.com/photos/archivist/32527386896/
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