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lightsaber
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RE: Comac Starts C919 Final Assembly

Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:09 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 25):
That's the key point. Even if the ARJ-21 doesn't sell a single more aircraft, and turns out a commercial failure, it is the enabler for C919 certification and must be certified.

  

The ARJ21 *must* be certified to move the C919 forward. About nine more months of delays with the ARJ21 will start to impact C919 certification. So China must certify the ARJ21 even if on a lower standard (e.g., having parts only certified for a few thousand cycles instead of 20k). Perhaps the ARJ21 could be delayed a little longer and not impact the C919... but not forever. Ironic IMHO.

Quoting United727 (Reply 26):
Is the ARJ-21 the mirror image of the Super 80?

   It has the cross section of the MD-80 with just over half the capacity.It has new wings, landing gear, avionics, engines, and sub-systems. The only similarity would be compatible seats. It is a new aircraft:

There is no spare part commonality (no one keeps airframe structural parts in stores). Everything from galley items, window seals, windows, avionics, tires, and brakes are new.

There is no cockpit commonality.

The ARJ-21 has an unproven vendor base and unproven global support chain.

Heck, the CF-34s of the ARJ-21 have different externals/controls than the same mechanical engines for Bombardier which are different than the same mechanical engines for Embraer; but the Embraer and Bombardier engines are more similar. e.g., valves and regulators for the 'externals' of the ARJ-21 engine are made by new vendors (Chinese) versus the proven designs of the Bombardier/Embraer. The requirements of these new engine supporting valves and regulators *are* a dozen years more advanced than the ones on the the older CF-34s. But the new requirements are often so difficult that many of the old vendors refused to bid as there was no business case. Is DL really willing to risk dealing with a new supply chain? Not likely with the E2-175 not too far in the future and DL's seeming preference for the E-175 until the new engines come out.

There is no technological or significant enough cost advantage for DL to cease procuring E-175s for their RJ vendors. Or put another way, DL has already purchased (for operation by RJ vendors) a competing airframe. I do not see a reason DL would prefer the ARJ-21. By the time the ARJ-21s 'entry into service risk' is bought down, DL could receive E2-175s or MRJs. Only airlines with *really* bad credit would be likely to consider a previous generation concept such as the ARJ-21. Most airlines will buy new designs or 'top off' existing older design fleets. Those airlines would likely see good financing deals from Bombardier to keep their CR7/CR9 lines going.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 24):
On the upside, we can actually have that conversation now. It's taken a decade...

My friend, the whole engineering field lost focus... A cost of the 'super-manager' era... Cest la vie.


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United727
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RE: Comac Starts C919 Final Assembly

Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):

Quoting United727 (Reply 26):
Is the ARJ-21 the mirror image of the Super 80?

   It has the cross section of the MD-80 with just over half the capacity.It has new wings, landing gear, avionics, engines, and sub-systems. The only similarity would be compatible seats. It is a new aircraft:

There is no spare part commonality (no one keeps airframe structural parts in stores). Everything from galley items, window seals, windows, avionics, tires, and brakes are new.

There is no cockpit commonality.

Thanks for clarifying Lightsaber, I read that this plane was based off the remaining MD80 tooling in China, so I figured the whole plane would be similar with current avionics. Thanks again.
 
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RE: Comac C919 Production And Delivery Thread

Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:15 pm

The nose section for the first C919 prototype is expected to be delivered to Comac's final assembly centre on 15 October. This is the third major C919 structure to be delivered to Comac.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... se-404688/

Image
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China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:51 pm

The first flight of the Comac C919 will take place during 2015. Airbus estimates that China domestic market will be the
biggest market in the next few years.

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1424696529.html
 
Cosmopolitaine
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:29 pm

Well, there would certainly be political assignment for Chinese airlines to buy these planes, just like what happened on ARJ21. Don't know if it could catch the interest of foreign airlines. As a Chinese I do hope so, but it doesn't look very likely. Currently, except GECAS, all C919 order comes from Chinese airlines and leasing companies.

Moreover, there are only 450 orders of C919 for the time being, compare to its competitors 737MAX and A320Neo's 2,553 and 3,621...
 
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:16 pm

Quoting Cosmopolitaine (Reply 1):
Moreover, there are only 450 orders of C919 for the time being, compare to its competitors 737MAX and A320Neo's 2,553 and 3,621...

I think the numbers for Comac is not necessarily of the first importance. Building their own industry and being less dependant on Airbus and Boeing is probably important factors too. We will see.
 
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:05 am

Quoting yenne09 (Reply 2):
I think the numbers for Comac is not necessarily of the first importance. Building their own industry and being less dependant on Airbus and Boeing is probably important factors too. We will see.

Certainly, Certainly. C919 is more of a political or even military project than a commercial one, and I do believe China's domestic market will have more than enough demand for the airplane. However, it's certainly not getting foreign airlines' interest (or even attention), and it's unlikely that C919 would be top-choice for most Chinese airlines. It's more like a substitution when Boeing or Airbus fails to deliver 30 airplane to meet the growth of the Airline.
 
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:53 am

Quoting Cosmopolitaine (Reply 1):
Moreover, there are only 450 orders of C919 for the time being, compare to its competitors 737MAX and A320Neo's 2,553 and 3,621...

We've got used to gargantuan orders and production runs in recent years, but many of the programmes of the 60s, 70s and 90s would kill to have 450 orders in total, never mind before service entry!
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 4):
Quoting Cosmopolitaine (Reply 1):
Moreover, there are only 450 orders of C919 for the time being, compare to its competitors 737MAX and A320Neo's 2,553 and 3,621...

We've got used to gargantuan orders and production runs in recent years, but many of the programmes of the 60s, 70s and 90s would kill to have 450 orders in total, never mind before service entry!

Not only that, but we don't know the project's cost or its breakeven point, but I can bet it will be much lower than its Western counterparts, so they don't need to sell a whole bunch of airframes to get back their investment.
 
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting yenne09 (Thread starter):
The first flight of the Comac C919 will take place during 2015.

Does Comac even have an airworthy example built yet? If there is, does anyone have a picture they can share?
 
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:02 am

Wait a second... That is a bit aggressive for the current status of the LEAP-1C. COMAC refused to commit early and thus the LEAP-1A is scheduled to take the lead position in flight testing, after the initial flight testing. While the LEAP-1A powered NEO should fly in 4 to 6 months, I question if COMAC could make a first flight in 2015.

I'm not saying the C919 won't happen, but I am not seeing the required progress to support a flight in 2015. Note: I do not expect the first flight to be too far into 2016 at this time. It would take a nearly perfect ground test program for the C919 to fly in 2015 and the ARJ-21 showed that is not to be expected.

Quoting Cosmopolitaine (Reply 3):
C919 is more of a political or even military project than a commercial one, and I do believe China's domestic market will have more than enough demand for the airplane. However, it's certainly not getting foreign airlines' interest (or even attention), and it's unlikely that C919 would be top-choice for most Chinese airlines. It's more like a substitution when Boeing or Airbus fails to deliver 30 airplane to meet the growth of the Airline.

Agreed. This is more to build up the infrastructure to design and manufacture aircraft. Hopefully for COMAC the C919 does better than the ARJ-21.

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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:17 am

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 6):
Does Comac even have an airworthy example built yet? If there is, does anyone have a picture they can share?

No, but parts of the fuselage are coming to the factory though. It was said by Comac that the first sample will be assembled late this year.

It kinda looks like a smaller version of 787... At least the nose and forward parts looks similar.
 
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting Cosmopolitaine (Reply 8):
It was said by Comac that the first sample will be assembled late this year.

Assembly is 4+ months before first flight.

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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:05 am

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 5):
Not only that, but we don't know the project's cost or its breakeven point, but I can bet it will be much lower than its Western counterparts, so they don't need to sell a whole bunch of airframes to get back their investment.

We know that it's late, has needed to learn an incredible amount of things (still much to learn yet), uses some western components, so I expect it to cost a huge amount of money, a number nobody is probably even measuring in China, as it doesn't really matter. Production costs should be lower than the A320 and 737 eventually, but how much lower is anyone's guess.
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Comac C919 Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:32 am

Assembly of the first C919 prototype is almost complete. Photo:

Image

Comac says first flight towards the end of the year is still on track. However, as one can see the airplane is still fully empty on the inside so lots of work still needs to be done.

More photos:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ai-409657/
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andrej
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:26 am

Looks nice, but somehow (in my eyes) I see resemblance to CS300. Although I am well aware that C919 is a larger plane.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:44 am

Are there already any reasonable numbers around how competitive the C919 will be compared to A320NEO and 737Max?
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:17 am

One of the photos shows how the new four man cockpit will look!  
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:44 pm

Besides the CSeries and MRJ, I'm definetly excited for this airplane to take to the skies! Aside from not having paint yet, it already looks like a sleek bird.

I'm already impressed with it's order book (450 examples); pretty impressive for a new build design from China.

Quoting andrej (Reply 1):
I see resemblance to CS300

In certain parts, yes. However, the nose sections (and potential software) are completely different from each other

Quoting petera380 (Reply 3):

One of the photos shows how the new four man cockpit will look!

That's probably because they haven't installed the flight deck yet. The official number of pilots in the cockpit on this bird will be 2.
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:54 pm

How many C919'S will be built as test frames? How long will the certifying process be? Will the FAA and EASA participate in the testing and certification program? Who is building the engines or are they offering multiple engine suppliers? Hopefully this program runs smoother than the ARJ21 program.

Congrats to Comac, their engineers on designing and building a very beautiful aircraft.
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 4):

And the official number of jokes that you missed is one. It's a funny photo though.
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:45 pm

Just like all Russian designs, regardless of partners in development or design, these Chinese planes will be much maligned and discredited by the A/B crowd. We all know only the "west" can build anything viable.

While I'm a proud American, who cherishes freedom, I am willing to put credit where credit is due and the "Soviet" and Chinese engineers are not stupid. They are just as capable as "western" engineers.

I always fall back on the ol' "how do we write in space" problem of the 1960s. The US spends $25+ million to develop the space pen and the Russians simply took a pencil as the old story goes.

I hope the ARJ and C919 work out. Options are what make the marketplace function, stay efficient, drive development and keep quality up. As I used to always have to remind my brother when he was running the family business; our competition is not our enemy, they are the reason we exist. You worked for the competition, until you felt that we could do it better then they are and now we have a business of our own. Competition is not the enemy, its the reason we exist. Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, Embraer, ATR, etc...they need competition to stay fresh, current and progressive, not to mention honest and price conscious.
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:07 pm

Quoting GRRECPGRR (Reply 7):
I always fall back on the ol' "how do we write in space" problem of the 1960s. The US spends $25+ million to develop the space pen and the Russians simply took a pencil as the old story goes.

I really wish people would stop perpetuating that myth, no matter what their reason may be.

Debunked here: http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

Quoting GRRECPGRR (Reply 7):

I hope the ARJ and C919 work out.

ARJ has a snowball's chance in hell, C919 might be better off though, especially if the Chinese gov't exerts political pressure for a buy.
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Cosmopolitaine
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:35 pm

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 6):
Does Comac even have an airworthy example built yet? If there is, does anyone have a picture they can share?
First C919 on Assembly Line, Courtesy CARNOC
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting GRRECPGRR (Reply 7):
They are just as capable as "western" engineers.

No doubt about that. But so I still would like to know how the "numbers" of a Comac 919 compare to a similiar A320 with the same engines. I guess its a bit too early, but being a clean-sheet design, I wonder how good it can be, at least it should have a good potential.
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:47 pm

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 5):
Who is building the engines or are they offering multiple engine suppliers?

The C919 will be powered by the brand new CFM International LEAP-1C.
 
ThReaTeN
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:54 pm

Quoting GRRECPGRR (Reply 7):
Just like all Russian designs, regardless of partners in development or design, these Chinese planes will be much maligned and discredited by the A/B crowd. We all know only the "west" can build anything viable.

While I'm a proud American, who cherishes freedom, I am willing to put credit where credit is due and the "Soviet" and Chinese engineers are not stupid. They are just as capable as "western" engineers.

Instead of throwing around big, boisterous announcements about how everyone is equally capable (I suppose once you scratch the surface, or whatever), how about naming even one Chinese commercial airliner design that proves that they are just as capable of building them as their Western counterparts? None of us can prove a negative (that Chinese engineers aren't capable), but I think you would be hard pressed to back up your statements with anything more than clichés and the tiresome "heck, I'm an American patriot, and I drink Budweiser in front of the Superbowl on TV as much as the next guy, but even I can admit [that Airbus did a good job with the A350/whatever].." overcompensation routine.

[Edited 2015-03-03 09:55:02]
 
aviationaware
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:55 pm

Congratulations, now red China must show that they can ramp up production reliably. That will be the real challenge.
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:01 pm

Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 11):
how about naming even one Chinese commercial airliner design that proves that they are just as capable of building them as their Western counterparts?

Not a Chinese design, but Delta does fly Chinese built airliners.
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ThReaTeN
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:11 pm

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 13):
Not a Chinese design, but Delta does fly Chinese built airliners.

Those aren't even license built European designs assembled by a Chinese company carrying such a license, they are Airbus planes assembled at Airbus plants by Airbus employees in China. Not even close to what we're talking about in the case of the C919 or the ARJ21.
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 14):

Those aren't even license built European designs assembled by a Chinese company carrying such a license, they are Airbus planes assembled at Airbus plants by Airbus employees in China. Not even close to what we're talking about in the case of the C919 or the ARJ21.

The Chinese manufactured planes Delta flies are not European designed.

It will only be a matter of time before Chinese manufacturing skill and expertise gleaned from license built and assembled aircraft allows them to compete favorably with Western designed aircraft. Whether or not the 919 is the aircraft to do this is still to be determined. The previous attempts were clearly failures.
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:14 pm

Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 14):
Those aren't even license built European designs assembled by a Chinese company carrying such a license, they are Airbus planes assembled at Airbus plants by Airbus employees in China.

Airbus manufactured MD-90s? Since when?
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bjorn14
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:01 pm

Pretty sleek looking bird. I'll take 200 please.  
Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 4):
I'm already impressed with it's order book (450 examples); pretty impressive for a new build design from China.

But how many of those are from Chinese airlines? The real test comes when what the rest of the world thinks of them and will they be FAA/EASA certified?
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 5):
Will the FAA and EASA participate in the testing and certification program?
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 17):
The real test comes when what the rest of the world thinks of them and will they be FAA/EASA certified?

AFAIK no FAA certification is currently planned.
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Assembly of the first C919 prototype is almost complete. Photo:

Hey look! A CS300!
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ThReaTeN
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting spacepope (Reply 16):
Airbus manufactured MD-90s? Since when?

I assumed SLCPilot was referring to A320 family aircraft assembled at the Tianjin plant. Exactly the same point applies to MD-90s (just replace "Airbus" with "McDonnell Douglas") so it has exactly zero signficance.

Apparently only two (2) MD-90s were ever produced in China so to be honest I don't see what that example is meant to show.

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 15):
It will only be a matter of time before Chinese manufacturing skill and expertise gleaned from license built and assembled aircraft allows them to compete favorably with Western designed aircraft. Whether or not the 919 is the aircraft to do this is still to be determined. The previous attempts were clearly failures.

Assembling aircraft and designing them are two very different things. The Chinese have been building Russian military planes and engines under license for many decades with very little to show for it in terms of successful, indigenous advanced fighter aircraft design.

Granted, if by "matter of time" we mean it could happen in 20, 30 or 50 years, then I agree it would be strange if China didn't at some point reach a level of capability similar to that of Russia, the EU or the USA. But there are still no indications that the gap is closing at a significant rate. China still hasn't been able to pull off a flying - much less a commercially viable - regional jet (the ARJ21) and that is not exactly aspicious for the successful completion of much more advanced designs such as the C919 or the planned A350/787 clone recently announced.

[Edited 2015-03-03 12:14:42]

[Edited 2015-03-03 12:17:32]
 
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PW100
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RE: China To Start C919 Test Flight In 2015

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:11 pm

It's an empty shell. It took Boeing over two years to get their empty shell in the air.
With China's limited experience,I don't see this bird flying this year.
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GRRECPGRR
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting spacepope (Reply 8):
I really wish people would stop perpetuating that myth, no matter what their reason may be.

Debunked here: http://www.snopes.com/business/geniu...n.asp

Its not that the story is true, I know its been debunked. But the moral of it is what I was saying. Everyone degrades the Russians and Chinese airplane designs because they are not as sophisticated as western designs. But its not necessary for them to be. Sometimes, the less complex solution works just as well. That is my purpose in using that statement.
 
ThReaTeN
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:35 pm

Quoting GRRECPGRR (Reply 21):
Its not that the story is true, I know its been debunked. But the moral of it is what I was saying. Everyone degrades the Russians and Chinese airplane designs because they are not as sophisticated as western designs. But its not necessary for them to be. Sometimes, the less complex solution works just as well. That is my purpose in using that statement.

What "moral" is it that we are supposed to get? The Russians designed many military aircraft that were built to the specifications of the military (in other words, neither less nor more sophisticated than they needed to be) and in many cases at the level of or even beyond their US counterparts in capability or ingenuity. Civilian airliners are a completely different animal with different commercial considerations that need to be respected. And as it turned out, not even Aeroflot wanted Russian airliners once the Soviet Union collapsed and they were able to purchase their aircraft from the US and Europe. Are we, on the other hand, supposed to pretend that these aircraft aren't inferior just to be nice?

The Russians have many very talented engineers and I'm sure that the Chinese have as well, but they are still very far from actually having proven that they can build advanced, modern, high-range and high-capacity airliners at the same level as Boeing or Airbus.
 
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 23):

Never mind. Its clear from several comments that I'm just spitting into the wind. I should have known not to try to go against the grain on a site like this. Forget I ever said anything, its just not worth the hassle.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:05 pm

Quoting GRRECPGRR (Reply 24):
Never mind. Its clear from several comments that I'm just spitting into the wind. I should have known not to try to go against the grain on a site like this. Forget I ever said anything, its just not worth the hassle.

Sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it. I think you are over-explaining your point and getting into areas that are muddying the waters. Just my opinion.

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planemaker
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:49 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2):
Are there already any reasonable numbers around how competitive the C919 will be compared to A320NEO and 737Max?

There was an A.net member that always use to start habitual threads claiming that the C919 would kill the A320 and 738.  
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Aesma
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:50 pm

Doesn't look like they've started number 2, totally empty hangar aside from the first airplane. 7/8/7 anyone ?

Quoting GRRECPGRR (Reply 7):
Chinese engineers are not stupid. They are just as capable as "western" engineers.

It has nothing to do with being stupid. It has to do with everything else, including culture, education from childhood, material means, and of course the political system. Some Chinese study in the west and become leaders in their fields (all of those who got a Nobel prize for example) but they're a tiny minority, considering the number of Chinese there are, and the cause is not stupidity but considerable challenges, not being addressed by the Chinese government that is part of the problem. If you haven't studied outside China, no chance.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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NYPECO
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:55 am

RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:21 pm

I've never heard of this company or this aircraft in development. When was this announced?
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:45 pm

The design on those wings doesn't look very efficient to me. Looks very much like old Russian designs. China's aerospace program is about 50 years behind the West and Russia, and the cars China are producing which are their own design are death traps. Even their own designs are made to look as close to Western cars as possible. The only thing China is good at, is manufacturing things like simple consumer electronics, clothes and so forth at a very low cost.

I'd be surprised if this aircraft ends up being more fuel efficient than the current A321ceo, even with CFM-LEAP engines. And safety wise I'd never travel with it. I'm well aware that COMAC has hired a bunch of Airbus and Boeing engineers, and that the aircraft will have a large amount of proven hardware. But that's not enough to convince me.
 
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PW100
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RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):
Doesn't look like they've started number 2, totally empty hangar aside from the first airplane. 7/8/7 anyone ?

Not only the hangar is totally empty (aside from the first airplane), that also applies to the airframe internals. No (sub)systems installed whtsoever. No cockpit, no avionic, no electrical stuff, no hydraulics etc. etc. It's probably even emptier that the first 787. I'll be heavily surprised if it will take to the skies this year.
I even wonder how much wiring is installed.

To me, this seems like a trial fit of the major structural elements.
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
chrisp390
Posts: 559
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:37 pm

RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:16 pm

I hope that the aircraft succeeds but hopefully Boeing can retain its edge as it is the largest exporter in the United States and supports a lot of quality American jobs.
 
VX321
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:53 pm

RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:28 pm

I'm really happy to see the Chinese developing a plane (almost) on there own that will help set a precedent for future aircraft production. The ARJ-21 doesn't seem like it will enter service or has attained FAA certification(please correct me if I'm wrong). As for the C919, this plane will probably enter service and though it won't fly in the west, it will replace older planes with roughly the same seat count in less developed nations that need a plane that cheap and relatively safe. Personally, I'd love fly on the C919 and ARJ-21 just to experience them.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2340
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:29 pm

So, as with anything from a communist dictatorship that controls both the "company" and the media involved, take this with a very hefty grain of salt. As noted, there appears to be very little evidence of a production line and the aircraft itself appears to be about as empty a shell as possible.

No doubt COMAC will get things going pretty quickly, but that assumes a smooth ride and the faster you do something, usually the lesser the quality (shoutout to the 787).

Crucially, aftersales support for Chinese and Western types is where these things often fall over. Whether justified or not, airlines will consider these types higher risk than their established Airbus and Boeing counterparts, requiring significant and demonstrable aftersales support to allay these fears. But there is very little evidence that either COMAC or the various Russian manufacturers can deliver this support. Particularly with the historical poor performance of their previous efforts.

Will this sell outside China? Probably to a few airlines in politically allied states with generous financing probably thrown in. Is it likely many of us will fly on this outside of China domestic? Nah.
 
georgiabill
Posts: 950
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

RE: Comac C919 Takes Shape

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:38 pm

With no FAA or EASA certification will it hurt it's export potential? I am asking say a Venezuelan airline, central or southamerican buys the C919 would it be allowed to operate flights to the US?
Again how many test frames are planned to be built to conduct certification? How long to certify the aircraft?
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