Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
usflyer123 wrote:the good thing is they will keep some 747s. its nice to see that there are still airlines keeping the queen of the skies.
SiouxFlyer wrote:What A/C will be replacing the 74 on the AMS-SXM route?
kgaiflyer wrote:SiouxFlyer wrote:What A/C will be replacing the 74 on the AMS-SXM route?
Rumors I've heard are that KL 785 will change from AMS-SXM-CUR-AMS to AMS-SXM-AMS.
So . . . SXM and CUR should each get their own 330 - or possibly 787s to join TUIs which also fly the route.
kgaiflyer wrote:"What A/C will be replacing the 74 on the AMS-SXM route?"
Idle chatter among Maho Beach web cam followers is that (1) it will be a 330 and (2) the route will become AMS-SXM-AMS as opposed to the current AMS-SXM-CUR-AMS using only one flight number.
Btw, there is a Thompson flight that follows the KLM itinerary - on alternate days to KLM - using a 788.
So I'm guessing the new KLM flight could be one of the new 789s.
RL777 wrote:I think KLM will be a strong bet for the 779 at some point, they seem to get great use out of their 744Ms and the 779 will be able to haul a good amount of underbelly cargo. I think the KL/AF group will place an order for the 779 at some point in the next few years, both airlines could use them given their route network.
EddieDude wrote:I suppose the Combis will be the last to be retired..
Iemand91 wrote:EddieDude wrote:I suppose the Combis will be the last to be retired..
KLM has 7 Combis; -BFA, -BFB, -BFG, -BFH, -BFL, -BFN and -BFY.
Scheduled retirements are November 2016 (-BFA) / November 2018 (-BFB), March 2017 (-BFN).
No retirement dates known for -BFG, -BFH, -BFL and -BFY.
However; KLM mentioned 2020 will be the final year for the 747's, so probably 4 out of 7 full pax 747-400's will make it to the end...
'Saving' the combi's for the last isn't that hard when 15 out of 22 are combis and the full pax aircraft are well spread age-wise; both the oldest and the youngest 747's are full pax.
JeremyB wrote:I think you meant that KLM has 7 full pax 747's
In 2018 only 10 will be left according to the current plans with 4 of those being full pax frames. Those are most likely the 4 that have no set retirement dates.
Iemand91 wrote:JeremyB wrote:In 2018 only 10 will be left according to the current plans with 4 of those being full pax frames. Those are most likely the 4 that have no set retirement dates.
Yep. At this moment it looks like those 4 will make it to the end.
A KLM spokesman recently said that PH-BFT, -BFV and -BFW (the only 747's wearing the new livery) will fly until the end (2020).
Since -BFY is also scheduled to undergo a D-check in November 2017 this one will also make it to the end.
My guess is that the few remaining 747 will only have a few routes left (maybe Toronto, Montreal, Mexico) in 2020 and will leave the fleet after the summer.
Maybe on standby for the 787, 777's.
Even though I'm a huge aviation lover/nerd; I've actually never flown on a regular flight. Only 2 special flights with KLM (the MD-11 farewell in 2014 and the 787 welcome flights in 2015).
And even though the 747 is by far my favorite aircraft; I most like will never fly it. Maybe in 2020 on a farewell flight ...
JeremyB wrote:Those three have all had their last D-check not to long ago, BFW is back for just 2 weeks now. She was gone for more then 2 months.. did it always take so long before a 747 was back from a D-check?
Mexico City will probably be the last destination for the 747 at KLM, Toronto remains on the 747 and the same goes for Curacao.
I still haven't flown on the 787 of KLM but I've been on all the other planes. I was also on one of the farewell flights, KL9895.
I really hope they also do this for the 747 as it was an amazing experience, but I hope I will be able to fly on one of the Queens before they are all retired.
JeremyB wrote:Mexico City will probably be the last destination for the 747 at KLM
Eirules wrote:Out of interest, why did KL decide to remove the A330s from the fleet? I understand they're leased but why not extend leases or buy / lease newer A330s? The 789s or 77W are great birds but they don't do the same mission as A330
Eirules wrote:Out of interest, why did KL decide to remove the A330s from the fleet? I understand they're leased but why not extend leases or buy / lease newer A330s? The 789s or 77W are great birds but they don't do the same mission as A330
Eirules wrote:Out of interest, why did KL decide to remove the A330s from the fleet?
JeremyB wrote:I think it has something to do with what kind of lease it is. All the A330's in the fleet are on a 8 to 10 years lease period, but some are on a operating lease and others on a financial lease. Although I'm not 100% sure about AOH/I/K/L I assume that those where on a operating lease. And when the lease period ran out Shaheen took them over. The others probably will get a lease extension of a couple of years pretty soon.
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Iemand91 wrote:The Summer (Season) is over which means more 747 retirements. Yesterday evening; PH-BFK "City of Karachi" made her last landing on Dutch soil. Her last rotation was to Shanghai as KL895/KL896; her last landing at Amsterdam was at 17:44 o'clock last night. She will be prepped for her last ever flight at Schiphol and then flown to Mojave Air and Space Port in 3 weeks/end of this month. She's the 3rd 747 to be retired. She was also the last 747 to get the new World Business Class (completed in August 2014).
747classic wrote:PH-BFK :
total flight hours : 129500
cycles : 15417
Will be broken up in the USA, so add 2 cycles and maybe 12 hours to the total
The highest flight hours count in the KL 744 fleet at this moment : PH-BFD with 135.879 hours
Source : scramble forum, T'Praethuys (only in Dutch) ,
na wrote:I hope KLM preserves one of its 744s (or exchanges the 743 at Lelystad with a 744 in the early 20s when the last one of the greatest aircraft type ever operated by the airline is being phased out).
747classic wrote:PH-BFK:
total flight hours : 129500
cycles : 15417
Will be broken up in the USA, so add 2 cycles and maybe 12 hours to the total
The highest flight hours count in the KL 744 fleet at this moment : PH-BFD with 135.879 hours
Source : scramble forum, T'Praethuys (only in Dutch) ,
na wrote:PH-BFD could well be the aircraft with the highest number of flight hours ever when finally retired. In flight hours it has just passed the Southern Air 747-206SUD freighters retired in 2009 (also both ex-KLM) which with close around 135.000 hours held the world record so far.
I hope KLM preserves one of its 744s (or exchanges the 743 at Lelystad with a 744 in the early 20s when the last one of the greatest aircraft type ever operated by the airline is being phased out).
747classic wrote:na wrote:I hope KLM preserves one of its 744s (or exchanges the 743 at Lelystad with a 744 in the early 20s when the last one of the greatest aircraft type ever operated by the airline is being phased out).
PLS, keep the 747-306( PH-BUK) at Lelystad, so I can show 'my office" to my (future) grand children.
747classic wrote:The highest flight hours count in the KL 744 fleet at this moment : PH-BFD with 135.879 hours
RL777 wrote:I think KLM will be a strong bet for the 779 at some point, they seem to get great use out of their 744Ms and the 779 will be able to haul a good amount of underbelly cargo. I think the KL/AF group will place an order for the 779 at some point in the next few years, both airlines could use them given their route network.
A388 wrote:So three 744's will have been retired by the end of this year, is that correct? When will we see the first 744 retired that is doing the CUR flights? Which 744 registrations will replace the registrations that are currently flying to CUR? We get both full pax and combi 744's here, even though they are all flying as full pax aircraft. The reason why I ask is that I would like to see the day when the first KL 744 with the new livery will fly to CUR and of course I would love to see the Orange Pride 77W in CUR too
A388
Revelation wrote:RL777 wrote:I think KLM will be a strong bet for the 779 at some point, they seem to get great use out of their 744Ms and the 779 will be able to haul a good amount of underbelly cargo. I think the KL/AF group will place an order for the 779 at some point in the next few years, both airlines could use them given their route network.
I think all the current widebody twins handle a lot of underbelly cargo, there's no need to go to 779 just to get a lot of cargo capacity, and the recent retirements show that there's probably too much capacity relative to demand.
Iemand91 wrote:A388 wrote:So three 744's will have been retired by the end of this year, is that correct? When will we see the first 744 retired that is doing the CUR flights? Which 744 registrations will replace the registrations that are currently flying to CUR? We get both full pax and combi 744's here, even though they are all flying as full pax aircraft. The reason why I ask is that I would like to see the day when the first KL 744 with the new livery will fly to CUR and of course I would love to see the Orange Pride 77W in CUR too
A388
At December 31, PH-BFA and -BFP will also have left the fleet. -BFA will be the first full-pax 747 to retire.
PH-BFT, -BFV en -BFW have the new livery; all combi. At the end of 2017 -BFY will undergo a D-check (for as far as I know the last D-check ever on a KLM 747) and will receive the new livery aswell.
So she will be the only fullpax 747 to ever wear the new livery. Since the CUR flights are all full-pax you'll have to wait for early 2018 to see a new livery 747 there.
But honestly; with new 787's coming in, 747 going out I think KLM will probably schedule different aircraft to CUR before that.
As for the OrangePride 777 at CUR; keep dreaming. Don't think she will ever visit CUR unless it's something special (like KLM said themselves; they want to use the aircraft for special occasions)
On a side note: are you Dutch by any chance? I remember to have replied to a similar question before on a Dutch forum.
ktachiya wrote:I am wondering why KL decided to fit all these soon to be retired B744 with the new World Business Class first? The, "City of Karachi," only flew around with the new world business class for two years? Seems like an investment for very little return.
aerokiwi wrote:KL 744s in economy have always been abysmal. Beautiful on the oputside, just bloody awful on the interior.
A388 wrote:Iemand91 wrote:A388 wrote:So three 744's will have been retired by the end of this year, is that correct? When will we see the first 744 retired that is doing the CUR flights? Which 744 registrations will replace the registrations that are currently flying to CUR? We get both full pax and combi 744's here, even though they are all flying as full pax aircraft. The reason why I ask is that I would like to see the day when the first KL 744 with the new livery will fly to CUR and of course I would love to see the Orange Pride 77W in CUR too
A388
At December 31, PH-BFA and -BFP will also have left the fleet. -BFA will be the first full-pax 747 to retire.
PH-BFT, -BFV en -BFW have the new livery; all combi. At the end of 2017 -BFY will undergo a D-check (for as far as I know the last D-check ever on a KLM 747) and will receive the new livery aswell.
So she will be the only fullpax 747 to ever wear the new livery. Since the CUR flights are all full-pax you'll have to wait for early 2018 to see a new livery 747 there.
But honestly; with new 787's coming in, 747 going out I think KLM will probably schedule different aircraft to CUR before that.
As for the OrangePride 777 at CUR; keep dreaming. Don't think she will ever visit CUR unless it's something special (like KLM said themselves; they want to use the aircraft for special occasions)
On a side note: are you Dutch by any chance? I remember to have replied to a similar question before on a Dutch forum.
Hello there Iemand91, yes I do speak Dutch. I'm not sure if we ever spoke in Dutch on another forum. In any case, yes, I do speak Dutch too
As for the 747 replacement to CUR. Seeing that all those KLM 747 flights are fully booked practically year round to CUR the capacity of the 77W is almost similar to the 744 so I do expect to see the Orange Pride touching down here once all 744's are out (provided that KL will keep the orange for so long). As for the 747 in the new KL livery, I also do think we will get them here too because of the same reason. The capacity of the 744 to CUR is needed. I only wanted to know when we will see the first 744 in the new KL colors arrive here. BFY will be the only full pax 744 to wear the new livery so that one will be send here for sure but all the way in 2018. I understood that CUR and PBM will be the last 747 destinations for KL so I also think BFT, BFV and BFW will be send here sooner before BFY. My only question is WHEN? I assume in 2017 but when?
A388
seabosdca wrote:Please come back to let us know BFA's final hours tally when it is pulled from service! Thanks.
A388 wrote:Do any of you know which 744 will replace PH-BFA on the Curacao routes? We get PH-BFA frequently here. But obviously it's gone now.
A388
A388 wrote:Thanks factsonly, I get that but how will KL rotate the other flights in their network. Are other routes that see the 744's getting the 777 instead seeing that CUR will remain a 747 destination until retirement of all the 744's? Which aircraft will replace the 744 fleet? If I remember correctly KL doesn't have that many 77W on order now(?) Or will the 789's replace the combi 744's? How many 789's does KL still have on order at this moment? I'm interested in seeing how KL will reshuffle its fleet with more 744's being phased out. What about the A332 fleet? Which aircraft will replace their A332?
A388