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FrancisBegbie
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:41 pm

VolksWaffe wrote:
Hi all, after over a decade of reading these forums, I decided to make my first post. I played hookie from work on Monday and went to Mojave just to watch PH-BFDs last moments in the air and final landing.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Worn out as KL's 744s are becoming, it's sad to see this one make it's final landing.

A big thanks from me too VolksWaffe!
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:12 am

Ronaldo747 wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
The end result for PH-BFD "City of Dubai": 137.735 flying hours and 16.761 cycles.


Incredible numbers. She should end up in a museum and not being scrapped.


Retired at almost 138,000 hours and probably 150,000 hours on the engines? That's a very well used frame. Not even Lufthansa gets its 747s worked that much. As for an airline whose planes could approach that many hours, my bet is on Delta Air Lines and its 767s---it has 767s north of 120,000 hours. By the end of this year, N171DN should be approaching 130,000 hours and if it's flown until the next D-check is scheduled, it could have less than 10,000 hours left on the airframe until it completely expires.
 
BuildingMyBento
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:27 am

Shucks, I always wanted to fly this bird to PBM. Guess Caribbean Airlines will have to suffice...and then Suriname Airlines back.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:22 pm

On a side note: as of Saterday March 4th; KLM is left as the sole operator of the Boeing 747 combi aircraft.
On that date Asiana Airlines flew their last 747-400M flight from Hanoi to Seoul. This aircraft has since been flown to TLV for full-cargo conversion.

KLM and Asiana Airlines were the only airlines left operating 747-400M's since Eva Air stopped flying them on January 5, 2015.
KLM was the first 747-400M operator in the world when they received their 3rd 747-400 that was configured as a combi on September 1, 1989.
(KLM was also the first European 747-400 operator when they received PH-BFA on May 18th, 1989.)
They were also the last airline to receive the 747-400M when they received PH-BFY on April 10, 2002.

From the 61 build 747-400M's some are left flying around this earth as full-freighters and only 15 remain flying passengers; 12 KLM, 2 VIP (A6-COM, Dubai Air Wing / Royal Flight)
and CN-MBH Morrocan Government) and the Emir of Kuwait's 9K-ADE (Kuwait Airways uses this aircraft quite a lot for regular passenger flights)
As far as I can tell those last 3 don't have the main deck cargo space in use anymore. And KLM has reconfigured 2 747-400M's to full-pax 747's years ago (PH-BFH and -BFY).
So that makes only 10 747-400 Combi planes left.

None of the 747-classic combi's are left flying passengers.

As far as the topic title concerns; the next and 8th 747 to leave the KLM fleet is PH-BFE; she will leave the fleet in about 2 months.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
factsonly
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:37 pm

Iemand91 wrote:

KLM was the first 747-400M operator in the world when they received their 3rd 747-400 that was configured as a combi on September 1, 1989.
(KLM was also the first European 747-400 operator when they received PH-BFA on May 18th, 1989.)
They were also the last airline to receive the 747-400M when they received PH-BFY on April 10, 2002.



There are a few more facts about KLM's B747Combi operations.

KLM invented the B747Combi concept as the airline found its original P&W powered B747-200B too big for its network during the 1973 oil crisis.
To permit more cargo to be carried, KLM decided to place a fixed partition in the rear cabin (between doors 14-15) of its B747-200Bs, leaving only the starboard aisle and a long row of 3 and 2-seaters on the window side of the rear cabin. The middle seats, left side aisle and left side window seats were dismantled and this area became a dedicated closed off cargo compartment served through door 15. SABENA did a similar excercise with its B747-200Bs.

This rear cargo cabin design led to a discussion with Boeing and the launch of the B747-200Combi of which KLM ordered 10x units, these 10 aircraft were later converted to B747-200SUD. First delivery of a B747-200Combi was PH-BUH in Oct. 1975, powered by GE engines. At the time of delivery PH-BUH was the most powerful B747s ever delivered.

So KLM started operating B747Combi's 15 years before the B744Combi was introduced, and today has 42 years of uninterrupted B747Combis operations.
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:51 pm

Talking about 747 combi's, why did LH decide not to take combi 744's? AFAIK they did have 747-200 combi's. Was it because of their fleet mix or fleet size that they didn't need a combi aircraft anymore?

A388
 
na
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:10 pm

A388 wrote:
Talking about 747 combi's, why did LH decide not to take combi 744's? AFAIK they did have 747-200 combi's. Was it because of their fleet mix or fleet size that they didn't need a combi aircraft anymore?

A388



Well, they did have 744Ms. Seven of them were among the first batch of 744s delivered from 1989-92. However, they flew in full pax-configuration for most of their life.
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:50 pm

Okay thanks na. I wasn't sure but they did have them. Why weren't they used as combi's that often?


A388
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:54 pm

factsonly wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
There are a few more facts about KLM's B747Combi operations.

How do you know so much (specific) information about the 747?

Wish I had that knowledge about the queen. I'm trying to gather information about the KLM 747's (from -BUA until -CKD) and while I did gather some rather nice information by now; to me; it's not nearly enough :lol: ...
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:57 pm

The first KLM 747-400 is no more. Recently they began cutting up the first stored 747; PH-BFM at Teruel, Spain.
They've cut of the nose and tail of the plane; probably more by now.

Can't share pictures (don't think they would appreciate it if I'd share their pics here), but they are on a Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 142862634/

Brings a tear to my eye to be honest...
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:18 pm

I can imagine it's sad to see iemand. On the other hand I can't wait to see which aircraft KL will use to CUR when all the 744's are phased out. The 77W, 772 and 789 all can be good candidates for CUR in my opinion.

A388
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:36 pm

Guys, a friend mine told me that KLM will no longer use the 777 to Curacao when those 744's were planned to have their heavy maintenance done in October-November of this year. Apparently it's changed back from the 777 back to the 744? Does anyone have more insight?


A388
 
FB330
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:44 pm

Yes that's correct. 744 now for the full winter season.
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:39 pm

Thanks FB330 but what's reason KL changed it back to the 744?


A388
 
bmibaby737
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:50 pm

Does anyone know what happened to the "Dutch Airliners Delivery Thread" on some of the other forums, they used to post the retirement dates for aircrafts like these?
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:49 pm

PH-BFN left Amsterdam today for Xiamen for a D-check. She will be back in about 7 weeks.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... n/#cd7ecb1
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:32 am

Iemand, which aircraft will replace PH-BFN on the Curacao route? Will KLM rotate other 744's that normally don't fly to Curacao to do flights to Curacao?


A388
 
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DABYT
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:59 am

A388 wrote:
Okay thanks na. I wasn't sure but they did have them. Why weren't they used as combi's that often?


A388


LH's 744 combis were D-ABTA,B,C,D,E,F,H and they flew as such until 1997 when they and their -200 sisters were converted into full pax as LH Cargo's MD-11F took over the cargo capacity.
 
FlyingSicilian
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:18 am

Looks like Houston, a 50+ year city in KLM's network and longtime combi destination, will lose them by next spring; per airlineroute and OAG Houston is getting split 789 and 772 service:

Amsterdam – Houston 747-400COMBI replaced by 787-9 on Day 357, 777-200ER on Day x357
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
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frigatebird
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:47 pm

FlyingSicilian wrote:
Looks like Houston, a 50+ year city in KLM's network and longtime combi destination, will lose them by next spring; per airlineroute and OAG Houston is getting split 789 and 772 service:

Amsterdam – Houston 747-400COMBI replaced by 787-9 on Day 357, 777-200ER on Day x357


With more and more 744s disappearing from the KL fleet, it's no wonder their destinations are being taken over by other aircraft. IAH will likely become an all 789 destination once KL gets more of those.

Speaking of 747 replacement at KLM, this is the following updated delivery planning: (Source: Dutch aviation site Scramble, posted by Fiets, http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php? ... start=2400 )

777-300ER sep 2017 PH-BVU 61702

787-9
july 2017 PH-BHL 38775
august 2017 PH-BHM 38776
january 2018 PH-BHN 42491
april 2018 PH-BHO 42509
august 2018 PH-BHP 42506
Q2 2019 PH-BHR 42485

787-10
sep 2019 PH-BKA 42503
apr 2020 PH-BKC 42492
may 2020 PH-BKD 42496
june 2020 PH-BKF 42499
march 2021 PH-BKG 42500
july 2021 PH-BKH 42489
aug 2021 PH-BKI 42508
(regs will most likely be PH-BKx as they have already been reserved, other possibility is PH-BJx according to the same site, author Inkjet)

A350-900
january 2020 PH-AZA
march 2020 PH-AZB
Q2 2020 PH-AZC
Q1 2021 PH-AZD
Q2 2021 PH-AZE
Q1 2022 PH-AZF
Q1 2022 PH-AZG

Of course these deliveries will cover more than just the 744 fleet. I suppose some of the 78X and A359 will also be utilized as A333 replacement. The additional capacity of these aircraft over the A333 could cover the capacity loss of the 744 full pax replacement by 78X/359.
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W, AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:48 pm

Thanks for the update frigatebird. The A359 looks like a nice aircraft for CUR so let's see what will happen. With the discontinuation of the SXM tag to CUR KL last November KL reduced their number of seats to CUR because the two weekly A330 flights were also (quietly) stopped. This might indicate that KL is foreseeing a downward trend to travel to CUR in the coming years. In that case the 77W might even be too big for CUR but the 789 or A359 might be perfect. Of course a 772 can also be used but I personally hope for brand new aircraft to CUR. This is just my opinion.

A388
 
jwnyc
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:14 pm

Looks like PH-BFE made its final round trip on March 21 to JFK (I was on it) so KLM may be retiring this one a few months ahead of schedule. Photo from final on-duty AMS takeoff posted on IG @jaapnyc
 
globalcabotage
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:52 am

Even ORD is going 4x weekly 789 next summer and 3x weekly Combi. End of an era, but a great replacement! Maybe AA will add ORD-AMS seasonal next summer! Doubt it, but ...
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:56 am

jwnyc wrote:
Looks like PH-BFE made its final round trip on March 21 to JFK (I was on it) so KLM may be retiring this one a few months ahead of schedule. Photo from final on-duty AMS takeoff posted on IG @jaapnyc

Looks like she's scheduled for tomorrow's KL661 to Houston.

Would be odd to if she would have retired already. She would be the first 747 to be retired way before here set date. (In case of -BFE it's May 22).
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
na
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:08 am

Iemand91 wrote:
PH-BFN left Amsterdam today for Xiamen for a D-check. She will be back in about 7 weeks.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... n/#cd7ecb1


A D-check means a full repaint. So we can expect PH-BFN in the modified livery soon.

Wasnt BFN scheduled for retirement this year? Maybe they changed plans and will be retiring another one earlier instead?
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:57 am

na wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
PH-BFN left Amsterdam today for Xiamen for a D-check. She will be back in about 7 weeks.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... n/#cd7ecb1


A D-check means a full repaint. So we can expect PH-BFN in the modified livery soon.

Wasnt BFN scheduled for retirement this year? Maybe they changed plans and will be retiring another one earlier instead?


Yes indeed na. That means we will see the new livery here in CUR sooner than expected :)

Are PH-BFT and PH-BFV currently flying in all pax configuration or as combi?

A388
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:19 am

na wrote:
A D-check means a full repaint. So we can expect PH-BFN in the modified livery soon.

Most likely yes. -BFY will follow in October so in the end; 5 out of 22 747-400 aircraft will have worn the new dolphin livery.
When -BFY gets repainted it will also be the end of KLM 747 Asia liveries; since she's the last/only 747 wearing Asia titles at the moment.



Wasnt BFN scheduled for retirement this year? Maybe they changed plans and will be retiring another one earlier instead?

Yes. -BFN was scheduled to retire now but instead she will get a D-check and will live on and will probably part of the last KLM 747's in about 3-4 years.
Retirement for -BFF was pushed forward to November this year because of the D-check of -BFN. (even though my known original retirement date for -BFF was even before November).

A388 wrote:
Yes indeed na. That means we will see the new livery here in CUR sooner than expected :)

Are PH-BFT and PH-BFV currently flying in all pax configuration or as combi?

A388

-BFT and -BFV are combi-planes. Only -BFH and -BFY have changed configuration (as far as I know) but are flying full-pax for years now.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:22 pm

Thanks for your valuable update Iemand, looks like I just have to wait until May to see the KL dolphin livery here in CUR.


A388
 
maximairways
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:01 pm

I'm flying YYZ-AMS in May, I was hoping to be on a 747, but it looks like they switch that route to a 772 in the summer months. :(
 
jwnyc
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:09 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
jwnyc wrote:
Looks like PH-BFE made its final round trip on March 21 to JFK (I was on it) so KLM may be retiring this one a few months ahead of schedule. Photo from final on-duty AMS takeoff posted on IG @jaapnyc

Looks like she's scheduled for tomorrow's KL661 to Houston.

Would be odd to if she would have retired already. She would be the first 747 to be retired way before here set date. (In case of -BFE it's May 22).


Thanks for the correction. What source do you use? Didn't see any new logs on flightradar24.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:25 am

jwnyc wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
jwnyc wrote:
Looks like PH-BFE made its final round trip on March 21 to JFK (I was on it) so KLM may be retiring this one a few months ahead of schedule. Photo from final on-duty AMS takeoff posted on IG @jaapnyc

Looks like she's scheduled for tomorrow's KL661 to Houston.

Would be odd to if she would have retired already. She would be the first 747 to be retired way before here set date. (In case of -BFE it's May 22).


Thanks for the correction. What source do you use? Didn't see any new logs on flightradar24.

I ran some 747 flight numbers through Amsterdam Airports departure lists and this flight came up with registration PH-BFE. :lol:
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:36 pm

Now for something nice in this depressing topic; one of KLM's 747-400 is currently carrying a very special load.
Two panda bears - Wu Wen and Xing Ya - are in the back of KLM's PH-BFT on their way to Amsterdam on flight KL892 from Chengdu: https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM892/d0952c9
Scheduled arrival at Amsterdam was 19:05 but it looks like it will be 19:28.
(Normally this flight is operated by the 787-9 but here comes the great capabilities of the 747-combi in to play)

The two bears are on their way to the Dutch Zoo Ouwehands Dierenpark in Rhenen after 16 years of consultation and preparation with China.
In the past; KLM has transported another 4 panda bears.

The cargo crates:

Image

Image
Image

KLM has place some small stickers on the 747:

Image

Loading the crates on the main deck cargo area:

Image
Image

A happy panda :D

Image
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:04 pm

That is so great to see and indeed very special cargo iemand91!!! Thanks for sharing this nice story with us!!! In the mean time I'm waiting on BFN to return so we can see it here in CUR in the new colors!!! Still some time to go though... :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:


A388
 
whywhyzee
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:18 pm

maximairways wrote:
I'm flying YYZ-AMS in May, I was hoping to be on a 747, but it looks like they switch that route to a 772 in the summer months. :(

You can still do it! YYZ is 12x weekly in the summer, 5x 747's operating on KL695.
 
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747classic
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:00 am

In a few years time AF/KLM is not in a position anymore to conduct that kind of maindeck cargo transport, due the retirement of the 747 combi fleet and the following retirement of the 3 744ERF aircraft (a fleet size of three aircraft is not very economical).

Consequently the KLM "Dieren hotel " can also downsize and only be used for small animals that can be transported lowerdeck.

I witnessed and contributed to the rise of KLM (and later MP) cargo operations, starting with the DC8 combi's, followed by the 747-200/300 combi's and substituded by the first 747-200SUD special freighters and now the 744ERF and the 744combis.
It is sad to see the decline kicking in.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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keesje
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:22 am

KLM PR went all out on the panda 747 flight :biggrin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBbUJAw_nfo
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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frigatebird
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:25 am

Iemand91 wrote:
Now for something nice in this depressing topic; one of KLM's 747-400 is currently carrying a very special load.
Two panda bears - Wu Wen and Xing Ya - are in the back of KLM's PH-BFT on their way to Amsterdam on flight KL892 from Chengdu

Thanks very much indeed for posting, I enjoyed that :mrgreen:
747classic wrote:
In a few years time AF/KLM is not in a position anymore to conduct that kind of maindeck cargo transport, due the retirement of the 747 combi fleet and the following retirement of the 3 744ERF aircraft (a fleet size of three aircraft is not very economical).

Consequently the KLM "Dieren hotel " can also downsize and only be used for small animals that can be transported lowerdeck.

I witnessed and contributed to the rise of KLM (and later MP) cargo operations, starting with the DC8 combi's, followed by the 747-200/300 combi's and substituded by the first 747-200SUD special freighters and now the 744ERF and the 744combis.
It is sad to see the decline kicking in.

Well, SQ is soldiering on with their 744F's despite having retired their pax 744s long ago. With so many 744F's still around, KL retaining their 744F's a little bit longer beyond the retirement date of their 744 pax aircraft may make more sense compered to the MD11F situation for example. But even if all of KL's 747s are to be retired by 2021, it's certainly not impossible KL may decide to continue main deck cargo operations with the 777F. AF already has these, and KL could try and get new 777Fs from Boeing with great discounts (B surely would love to fill more than a few empty 777 production slots in 2019). Or else lease some birds coming off lease with other airlines early next decade.
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W, AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
76er
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:24 pm

KL has no plans to phase out the 3 -ERF's in the foreseeable future. Cargo boss De Nooijer has said the freighters will stick around until well into the 2020's. The fate of the oddball BCF in the fleet has not been decided on yet, although its lease is up for renewal in early 2018.

Also don't forget KLM-Engineering does a lot of third party (line-)maintainance at AMS and outstations as well on 747's, including the -8.

The situation could all change again of course at the next downturn of the world's economy or spike in oil price. With fuel still being relatively cheap KL can offset the higher fuel burn of the 74 by lower cost of ownership vs the 777F. But if oil goes back up to e.g. the 100$ mark it may all be over rather quickly.
 
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747classic
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:27 pm

frigatebird wrote:
But even if all of KL's 747s are to be retired by 2021, it's certainly not impossible KL may decide to continue main deck cargo operations with the 777F. AF already has these, and KL could try and get new 777Fs from Boeing with great discounts (B surely would love to fill more than a few empty 777 production slots in 2019). Or else lease some birds coming off lease with other airlines early next decade.

The sad thing is that the KLM fleet development department is now a puppet of AF with very little decisive power. All the important decisions are made in Paris not by KLM at Schiphol (Amstelveen).
In the past KLM followed its own path and came with solutions adapted for a relative small pax market and a very flexible cargo market.
At present times the cargo apron at AMS is crowded with all kinds of cargo operators wih a few lost KLM/MP aircraft in between.
Somewhere something went terrible wrong at the KLM/AF cargo department,at the same time destroying the super flexible MP cargo operation.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:51 pm

747classic wrote:
Consequently the KLM "Dieren hotel " can also downsize and only be used for small animals that can be transported lowerdeck.

Well maybe other (cargo)airlines step in this void and start transporting more animals to/from Amsterdam.

AF/KLM (or KLM on their own) was worldwide the airline that carried most horses by plane right? I guess that record is already gone now, or about to.

I witnessed and contributed to the rise of KLM (and later MP) cargo operations, starting with the DC8 combi's, followed by the 747-200/300 combi's and substituded by the first 747-200SUD special freighters and now the 744ERF and the 744combis.
It is sad to see the decline kicking in.

Ah, NOW I know why you know so much about the 747. :P

keesje wrote:
KLM PR went all out on the panda 747 flight :biggrin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBbUJAw_nfo

I followed the livestream on the internet yesterday. And yes, they sure did. :shock:

747classic wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
But even if all of KL's 747s are to be retired by 2021, it's certainly not impossible KL may decide to continue main deck cargo operations with the 777F. AF already has these, and KL could try and get new 777Fs from Boeing with great discounts (B surely would love to fill more than a few empty 777 production slots in 2019). Or else lease some birds coming off lease with other airlines early next decade.

The sad thing is that the KLM fleet development department is now a puppet of AF with very little decisive power. All the important decisions are made in Paris not by KLM at Schiphol (Amstelveen).
In the past KLM followed its own path and came with solutions adapted for a relative small pax market and a very flexible cargo market.
At present times the cargo apron at AMS is crowded with all kinds of cargo operators wih a few lost KLM/MP aircraft in between.
Somewhere something went terrible wrong at the KLM/AF cargo department,at the same time destroying the super flexible MP cargo operation.

This is indeed sad. More cargo goes trough Amsterdam every year (slow growth) but AF/KLM (or Martinair for that matter) seems to have no role in that.
Today alone there are 26 different cargo-aircraft at Schiphol.

There has been an incredible los of cargo-capacity at AF/KLM/MP with just 2 777F's at AF and 3 747-400ERF and a 747-400BCF at KLM/MP.
Just a couple of years ago there were about 5 more 747-400F's at AF, another 747-400ERF at KLM and 7 MD-11F's with Martinair.
And of course the main deck cargo with the 15 KLM 747-400M's.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
factsonly
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Fri May 12, 2017 10:00 am

May 12th, 2017:

B744 PH-BFN is currently on its way from XMN-AMS following a D-check at Xiamen.

SrN: 26372 LN 969 B747-406 Del: 08/04/1993 PH-BFN Named City of Nairobi

Is this grand lady ready for another 5 years of service?

https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM9866/d5cf905
 
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Iemand91
Posts: 334
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Fri May 12, 2017 12:31 pm

factsonly wrote:
May 12th, 2017:

B744 PH-BFN is currently on its way from XMN-AMS following a D-check at Xiamen.

SrN: 26372 LN 969 B747-406 Del: 08/04/1993 PH-BFN Named City of Nairobi

Is this grand lady ready for another 5 years of service?

https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM9866/d5cf905

Probably not. Last KLM 747-operations are in the end of 2020 or March 2021 (I can't figure out which one because they seem to change every now and then).
So at most about 4 years tops. So theoretically she may have some life left when KLM stops 747 operations, but who's going to want a 27 year old heavily used 747-400 in 2021?

She should have the new livery too and that would make her the 4th 747 with the new livery (after PH-BFT, -BFV and - BFW)
Her flight route could make her fly over my place and in that case hopefully my DSLR/binoculars are good enough to spot her. But it's very cloudy at the momen so probably not. :cry:
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon May 22, 2017 12:11 pm

Flight KL612 from Chicago landed this morning at 06:37 at Schiphol. The flight was operated by the 747-400 PH-BFE "City of Melbourne".
As it stands; this was the final ever commercial flight for this beauty that was delivered to KLM on January 24, 1990, having flown her first flight a month earlier.
Melbourne is already the 7th 747-400 to be phased out and will be flown to Melbourne, Florida for scrap.
Later this year, two more 747-400 will be phased out.

Melbourne earlier this month, heading for Hong Kong:

Image
PH-BFE by Rien Jansens, on Flickr
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
Jetty
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon May 22, 2017 4:29 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
Melbourne is already the 7th 747-400 to be phased out and will be flown to Melbourne, Florida for scrap.

Amazing how KL foresaw what would be the final destination 27 years ago :dopey:
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon May 22, 2017 8:13 pm

Jetty wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
Melbourne is already the 7th 747-400 to be phased out and will be flown to Melbourne, Florida for scrap.

Amazing how KL foresaw what would be the final destination 27 years ago :dopey:

:D

Anyway; KLM will retire another 3 747-400's this year, not two. (can't edit post above anymore...)
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
DTWLUVER
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon May 22, 2017 11:16 pm

I am saddened that KLM Royal Dutch Airlines is retiring its 747's It breaks my heart. KLM 747's have transported me safely from LAX, SFO, ORD, DTW, JFK, YYZ & YUL approx 200 times over the past 30 years Each of my flights arrived ahead of schedule passing up slower aircraft along the way Always sitting in the nose section of the plane Once upstairs what a treat ! The Pilots of the 747's of KLM are the best in the International Airline category . Providing a smooth ride every time. Many thanks for the switching seat belt sign off upon takeoff. The Flight Attendants of the 747 you truly are the gems of the airline and deserve my thanks for serving me hundreds of times across the Atlantic. I will miss your special ways of providing inflight services. KLM I think you made a mistake not ordering the newest 747' versions. To those 747's I thank you from the bottom of my heart for being there when I needed you and giving me some of the best memories I will never forget .
God speed Blue Bird ! God speed !
 
Schmave
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon May 22, 2017 11:44 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
Flight KL612 from Chicago landed this morning at 06:37 at Schiphol. The flight was operated by the 747-400 PH-BFE "City of Melbourne".
As it stands; this was the final ever commercial flight for this beauty that was delivered to KLM on January 24, 1990, having flown her first flight a month earlier.
Melbourne is already the 7th 747-400 to be phased out and will be flown to Melbourne, Florida for scrap.
Later this year, two more 747-400 will be phased out.

Melbourne earlier this month, heading for Hong Kong:

Image
PH-BFE by Rien Jansens, on Flickr


I got to ride on this plane in 2014 and just saw it in AMS last month. It was parked at our gate for a little while and I thought we were going to get a second ride on the same plane, but it departed and we got to ride the "City of Hong Kong". Here it is in 2014:

Image
KLM 747-400 - Our Ride Home by Justin Kane, on Flickr

Image
KLM 747-400 | PH-BFE Wing Shot by Justin Kane, on Flickr
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue May 23, 2017 9:16 pm

DTWLUVER wrote:
I am saddened that KLM Royal Dutch Airlines is retiring its 747's It breaks my heart. KLM 747's have transported me safely from LAX, SFO, ORD, DTW, JFK, YYZ & YUL approx 200 times over the past 30 years Each of my flights arrived ahead of schedule passing up slower aircraft along the way Always sitting in the nose section of the plane Once upstairs what a treat ! The Pilots of the 747's of KLM are the best in the International Airline category . Providing a smooth ride every time. Many thanks for the switching seat belt sign off upon takeoff. The Flight Attendants of the 747 you truly are the gems of the airline and deserve my thanks for serving me hundreds of times across the Atlantic. I will miss your special ways of providing inflight services. KLM I think you made a mistake not ordering the newest 747' versions. To those 747's I thank you from the bottom of my heart for being there when I needed you and giving me some of the best memories I will never forget .
God speed Blue Bird ! God speed !


This thread helps explain why KLM, and others, have shied away from the 747-8.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1363897
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:02 pm

At this moment; flight KL897 is on route to Beijing from Amsterdam. It's been operated by PH-BFV "City of Vancouver".
It's estimated arrival will be 08:25 local time. At 10:55 it will turn back to Amsterdam where it will arrive at 15:10.
https://www.flightradar24.com/flight/kl897

For the time being; this will be the last (ever?) KLM 747 flight to Mainland China. From tomorrow on this flight will be flown with 777-200ER's which are already operating 4 out of 7 weekly flights.
From July 30 on; this route will be solely flown with 787-9's.

KLM started the Amsterdam - Beijing route on June 27, 1996 with the 747-400. This was KLM's first route to China.
After the formal inaugural flight on June 30 (the 2nd flight to Beijing) - with KLM President Pieter Bouw and the Dutch Minister Jorritsma of Ministry of Transport on board - the vice minister of the Civil Aviation General Administration of China and Pieter Bouw unveiled the name "City of Beijing" on the aircraft at Beijing Airport. (see picture below).

This however was not PH-BFU that is wearing that name now since that particular aircraft was delivered more than a year later in 1997.
This may have been PH-BFL "City of Lima' with this temporary name stuck on.

Image
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
Oscar14
Posts: 2
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:59 pm

29 years have passed and the blue Queen BFC is still soaring the sky. She is now approaching 139000hrs of flight!
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