What the issues could be that they will postpone it to 2020? Tokyo Olympics? I hope we will soon know what are the causes for the delay.

teme82 wrote:

What the issues could be that they will postpone it to 2020? Tokyo Olympics? I hope we will soon know what are the causes for the delay.

As indicated in the ither thread, they will formally announce about the delay later today JST. But according to various media reports, seems like they decided that it is necessary to change the design of the aircraft by relocating some of the fly by wire system so that it would be distributed throughout the aorcraft instead of focus in the forward part of the aircraft which might cause some serious incident in case of fire or water leakage, and that's apparently part of new safety standard to combat terrorist attack.

So the three planes used for testing in Moses Lake are going to need a major overhaul. Does ML have the facilities for it?

Here's a link to the presentation:
http://www.flythemrj.com/news/date/img/Advancing%20the%20MRJ%20project_e.pdf

The slide below shows the original timeline, and the revised schedule.


https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 826853888/

Tidbit from the Columbia Basin Herald

http://www.columbiabasinherald.com/arti ... /170129953

The second aircraft, MRJ 4, arrived to less fanfare; in fact, only flight test crew and employees were on hand on Nov. 18 when it taxied to the $9 million, 65,000-square-foot hangar built specifically to house the regional jets while they are being flight-tested.

The third jet arrived on Dec. 19. The fourth MRJ was projected to arrive on Tuesday, but that could not be confirmed at this time.

For the first time she did reverse thrust on landing. It was the one plane left in Japan. You see the cowlings open and hear the roar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eccCm1Xn9KE

Aircraft 4 is in the midwest. I guess it's there for bad weather testing. The sure picked the right location.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... j/#c72edcf

Engines are now mounted on Aircraft 5, so the first flight could be around April.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03iRoIcOmr8

Latest photo of FTA-5, taken from the video above:

I don't think so, Karel. FTA-5 is painted in the ANA colors. I've seen a picture of it. Beautiful plane. That one you posted has the Mitsubishi colors.

The Yomiuri Shimbun Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. will scale back its plan to mass-produce the Mitsubishi Regional Jet, the first domestically made passenger plane, from the initial target of 10 planes a month in 2020 to just about one plane a month in the same year, it has been learned.

The revision comes after the developer decided to further postpone delivery of the passenger jet. A delay to the planned start of mass production will likely deal a blow to domestic parts makers and others involved.

Mitsubishi Aircraft Corp., an MHI unit based in Toyoyama, Aichi Prefecture, has already informed major parts makers in Japan and overseas, according to sources.

In the previous plan, the aim was to gradually expand production of the MRJ, targeting about two planes a month by the end of 2017 and three to four by the end of the following year. However, MHI has decided to delay mass production of the MRJ because the first delivery of the aircraft has been pushed back once again by about two years to mid-2020.

Under the new plan, no MRJs will be manufactured in 2018 — production will commence the following year. No date has been set for when they will achieve a monthly target of 10 MRJs, the sources said.

Many companies that produce parts for the MRJ have expanded factories and increased employee numbers to meet the original schedule for the jet’s mass production.

MHI will add two more prototype planes to its test fleet under the new plan, bringing the total number to seven, according to sources.Speech

ordell wrote:

I don't think so, Karel. FTA-5 is painted in the ANA colors. I've seen a picture of it. Beautiful plane. That one you posted has the Mitsubishi colors.

These are definitely ANA colours:

KarelXWB wrote:

Latest photo of FTA-5, taken from the video above:

You can see the blue diagonal cheat line starting underneath the access platform, as well as the ANA lettering on the fin.

V/F

ordell wrote:

I don't think so, Karel. FTA-5 is painted in the ANA colors. I've seen a picture of it. Beautiful plane. That one you posted has the Mitsubishi colors.

The one I posted has the ANA colors.

Yup, that's it all right.

And FTA-4 made its planned trip to Florida yesterday for testing.

Mitsubishi Aircraft has conducted its first off-site test campaign for the MRJ regional jet at Rockford International Airport outside Chicago to collect data in natural icing conditions, the company announced in its latest edition of its monthly newsletter. The exercise builds on recent testing activities at Mitsubishi’s flight test center in Moses Lake, Washington, where three MRJ prototypes participate in an extended flight-test campaign now expected to last until 2020. Next, Mitsubishi plans to take FTA-4 to Florida for extreme temperature testing at Eglin Air Force Base.

The milestones come as Mitsubishi prepares to add at least one more flight-test airplane to its original complement of five following another delay to the program that will see first delivery moved from mid-2018 to mid-2020 as the company revises certain systems and electrical configurations to meet the latest certification requirements. During a review last autumn, certification authorities determined that the design did not properly account for “extreme situations” such as water leakage or an explosion in the area of the avionics bay. Mitsubishi has already started a new preliminary design review and expects to start the new design’s critical design review in a matter of months, said Mitsubishi Aircraft vice president of sales and marketing Yugo Fukuhara.

The company has said that because the design change will not affect the airplane’s performance, fuel consumption or systems functionality, the four flight-test airplanes already in operation will continue their duties as planned and that certification data gleaned from those tests remain valid. However, it added it would need to add new flight-test airplanes to the program to test the new design. “We will make aircraft to test these design changes,” said Fukuhara. “But we will determine later how many additional aircraft will be used.”

Meanwhile, Mitsubishi on Monday addressed Japanese media reports referencing changes in the production plan, noting that they revealed nothing inconsistent with the program update the company issued on January 23.

“It is true that the program schedule revision entails a change in the production schedule,” the company said in a written statement issued February 27. “As the first delivery is now revised to start in 2020, the monthly production rate will be low for the start-up period of manufacturing. After that, the plan calls for the production rate to be stepped up in a phased manner.”

The company added that it continues to review plans for when production rates will eventually reach 10 per month and that it “will adjust and reflect as we move forward with the revised schedule” to respond to customer needs and market demand.

“We are also communicating well with our partners by sharing the latest plan, and we plan to make individual adjustments with each partner based on their individual circumstances,” it concluded.

According to NHK news, Mitsubishi Aircraft is planning to bring the MRJ to the Paris Air Show in June.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/2017031 ... 31000.html

There is also speculation on twitter that JA23MJ may soon be ferried to Moses Lake.

https://twitter.com/jetcitystar/status/ ... 6305964033

Confirmed, JA23 is on her way.

https://twitter.com/kagakukougyou20/sta ... 2137713665

Follow her here.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja23mj/#

Here's a video of JA23MJ performing a low pass and wingwave in Nagoya before departing to Guam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mDFPWKWp2U

Fourth MRJ laid over in Hawaii

March 17, 2017 at 5:00 am | By CHARLES H. FEATHERSTONE Staff Writer

MOSES LAKE — Mitsubishi Aircraft’s fourth regional jet did not arrive at Grant County International Airport on Thursday after a problem in flight forced the plane to return to Honolulu.

According to Reina Endo, manager of Mitusibishi’s Moses Lake Flight Test Center, said the Mitsubishi Regional Jet (MRJ) aircrew saw an error message not long after taking off from Hawaii and returned.

Endo had no details on the nature of the error message, nor when the plane would arrive in Moses Lake.

“Considering the weather for the next few days, it is likely that it will be delayed,” Endo said.

The plane would be the fourth jet Mitsubishi has in Moses Lake for testing, with the other three arriving last year. Possessing a limited range, the regional passenger jets take a circuitous route to get to Central Washington, flying from Japan to Guam, then to Hawaii, and then on to San Jose before arriving in Moses Lake.

Mitsubishi needs to conduct 2,500 hours of flight testing on the MRJ in order for the aircraft to be certified to fly commercially. The company has more than 200 confirmed orders for the jet — Japan’s first domestically designed and built jetliner — but has had to delay delivery from mid-2018 to mid-2020 in order to redesign critical electrical systems.

Despite the repeated developmental delays of the MRJ, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and its subsidiary Mitsubishi Aircraft appear to be strongly committed to the program. In a recent Nikkei article, the new CEO at Mitsubishi Aircraft, Yuichi Shinohara, was quoted as saying「なんとしてもやり切る」which translates as "no matter what it takes, [Mitsubishi] will decisively complete [this project]." This is further conformation that Mitsubishi is well aware that bringing the MRJ to fruition has become much more than simply a new aircraft project. For better or worse, the MRJ now carries the prestige of the nation of Japan and reflects, to some extent, the country's industrial and technological prowess. When Shinohara said "no matter what it takes" he likely knowingly knew there would few budget constraints and few stones would be left unturned in the continuing effort to successfully bring the MRJ to market and into the hands of customers.

With the scope clauses of the U.S. Big3 unlikely to be relaxed in the near future, Mitsubishi Aircraft now sees an opening for the smaller version of its jet, the MRJ70. Accordingly, it's been reported that suppliers have been issued directives to begin the manufacture of parts, and that by late summer 2017 final assembly of the MRJ70 will commence. Roll out of the MRJ70 is anticipated in 2018. On the MRJ website, revised seating schematics for both the MRJ90 and 70 were posted last year. The MRJ70 is now shown in a 76-seat single-class configuration with a 31" seat pitch. Maximum capacity is 80 with 29" pitch. In a two-class configuration, there are 9 J and 60 Y for a total of 69 seats. The ideal MRJ70 for U.S. regional airlines is one that seats the maximum allowed under scope, so something akin to a 6 J 68 Y arrangement may be more desirable.

http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXLASDZ0 ... 0C1000000/
http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXLASDZ0 ... 0C1TI1000/

http://www.flythemrj.com/design/

ITB wrote:

The MRJ70 is now shown in a 76-seat single-class configuration with a 31" seat pitch. Maximum capacity is 80 with 29" pitch. In a two-class configuration, there are 9 J and 60 Y for a total of 69 seats. The ideal MRJ70 for U.S. regional airlines is one that seats the maximum allowed under scope, so something akin to a 6 J 68 Y arrangement may be more desirable.

The MRJ70 is a CRJ700/E170 size aircraft. At 31'' seat pitch and 11'000lb lighter than MRJ70ER, the CRJ700ER capacity is 74 seats but every airlines in US order the CRJ900 instead. I don't see US MRJ customers use a 31" seat pitch 76 seats single-class MRJ70 while competitors use three-class 76 seats CRJ900/E175.

queb wrote:

ITB wrote:

The MRJ70 is now shown in a 76-seat single-class configuration with a 31" seat pitch. Maximum capacity is 80 with 29" pitch. In a two-class configuration, there are 9 J and 60 Y for a total of 69 seats. The ideal MRJ70 for U.S. regional airlines is one that seats the maximum allowed under scope, so something akin to a 6 J 68 Y arrangement may be more desirable.

The MRJ70 is a CRJ700/E170 size aircraft. At 31'' seat pitch and 11'000lb lighter than MRJ70ER, the CRJ700ER capacity is 74 seats but every airlines in US order the CRJ900 instead. I don't see US MRJ customers use a 31" seat pitch 76 seats single-class MRJ70 while competitors use three-class 76 seats CRJ900/E175.

This is exactly the problem that is bedeviling Mitsubishi right now with the MRJ70. It's won't be able to seat 76 passengers in a 2-class configuration. An aircraft configured to seat only 69 (9J + 60Y), in all likelihood, will not pass muster with the U.S. regional airlines. If 74 seats can be squeezed in—for example in a 6J + 68Y arrangement—it just might be adequate. But it's a risky proposition. They really need to hear an honest assessment from customers whether, ultimately, the MRJ70 will be acceptable.

Rather than relying on the MRJ70 finding acceptance if scope remains unchanged, a better option, perhaps, is to double down on efforts to remove weight from the MRJ90. With the recently announced redesign of the electrical system, there is now a good chunk of time to work on weight reduction. According to specs on the MRJ website, a standard MRJ90 has a maximum takeoff weight of 87,303lbs. That's only 1,303 lbs over scope. With a 76-seat configuration, the resulting lighter MRJ90STD meets scope, but, unfortunately, is limited in range because it can't be fueled to capacity as scope is, once again, breached. Nevertheless, with the MRJ90STD type, Mitsubishi appears close enough to satisfying scope that an all-out effort to reduce weight may very well succeed.

As for MRJ90ER, which is probably the type most U.S. regionals are interested in, the weight reduction is more problematic as maximum takeoff weight is listed at 90,378 lbs. Again, when configured for 76 seats, the weight creeps closer to meeting scope, but the aircraft still remains roughly 2,000–3,000 lbs too heavy. Finding that much weight to remove may prove to be difficult, if not impossible. But it's doesn't appear to be an insurmountable task, as the weight that must be trimmed amounts to only about 3 percent of total aircraft weight.

Mitsubishi is planning the deliver the first MRJ90 by mid-2020. That's three years out. That's three years to work on the weight problem. To be sure, it's a challenging task, but it appears Mitsubishi has little choice to plunge in and make the concerted effort, all the more so if they wish to succeed in the North American market.

given the delivery time... is that the time when 2nd generation GTF supposedd to be available?

Is jA23 still in Hawaii?

ordell wrote:

Is jA23 still in Hawaii?

Yeah, I think it is. Earlier today I browsed a twitter account that closely follows the MRJ. Nothing at all was mentioned or linked to about JA23MJ. The FlightRadar database shows no recent activity as well. Right now, there's probably good number of technicians and engineers in Hawaii who are losing sleep trying to iron out whatever needing fixing.

Yesterday Mitsubishi Aircraft announced another round of personnel changes. Yuichi Shinohara, who was appointed CEO, effective February 1, will also now head the Sales and Marketing Division, effective April 1. There were several retirements announced, as well a good number of new appointments. Of interest, three non-Japanese engineering managers have been elevated to higher management positions, effective April 1. David Barrow, formerly an Engineering Manager, will now hold the title of Chief Engineer and Vice President, Mechanical System Design Department, Engineering Division. Silvia Bianchi and Marius Grigore, both Engineering Managers, will assume positions as Vice President, Aircraft Engineering Department, Engineering Division, and Vice President, Electrical System Design Department, Engineering Division, respectfully.

http://www.flythemrj.com/news/ (2017.03.27)

Yuichi Shinohara, the new CEO, recently sat for an interview with the Japanese media. Shinohara disclosed that upwards of 300 non-Japanese engineers are in place at the Nagoya facility, and more are planned to be hired. He also noted that last summer and fall, a design "check" by foreign engineers was conducted and the results received. He did not reveal exactly what was reported, only that they are working to resolve any and all issues. The modifications to the electrical wiring system, an issue revealed earlier this year, is anticipated to reach the design-freeze stage by the fall of 2017. Shinohara stressed the deep commitment of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and its subsidiary Mitsubishi Aircraft to the program.

http://www.sankei.com/economy/news/1703 ... 29-n3.html

Mitsubishi MRJ JA23MJ earlier today was back in the air over Hawaii for what appears to be a function check. It had been grounded since March 16 for "hydraulic issues." After the short test flight, the aircraft returned to and landed at HNL.

https://twitter.com/jetcitystar/status/ ... 0357291008

https://twitter.com/jetcitystar/status/ ... 3280485376

MRJ LR could be the perfect choice for ME3 & SQ to connect to smaller Indian cities.

For some reason, JA24MJ has left Florida, where it never test flew, then went back to Chicago briefly and now is in Manchester, NH.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... j/#ce38551

It came and left Manchester at least once I saw it land around 7pm some posted a video on Facebook of it leaving this afternoon.

JA24MJ undergoing extreme cold weather testing at the McKinley Climatic Laboratory:


https://twitter.com/woody2190/status/847784262178713600

JA23MJ finally departed from Hawaii about 1,5 hours ago and is on her way to the West Coast: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja23mj/#ce989b4

They didn't waste time. Only on the ground in SJC for a short time before heading to Washington to join the herd.

According to AviationWire, FTA-3 will be repainted into ANA colours and fly to the Paris Air Show in June. On th other hand, the first flight of FTA-5 is postponed due to "design changes".
Source: http://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/117147

Regarding the question if the MRJ will ever make money:

But the Japanese government's primary goal isn't to make money for Mitsubishi Aircraft, the MRJ's manufacturer, rather it's to have the plane cement an industry revival that failed to take off half a century ago with Japan's last passenger plane, the YS-11.

"Rather than a simple question of whether it makes a profit or loss, what is more important is will it over the longer term be the foundation of a strong aerospace industry," a government source who is helping the program told Reuters. He asked not to be identified as he is not authorized to talk to the media.

Presentation documents prepared by the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, seen by Reuters, see the MRJ as the first in a three-generation program stretching beyond 2060.

As for the design flaw:

Mitsubishi, which had by then begun work on the MRJ, overlooked the change, said two people with knowledge of the project. "Mitsubishi was clearly aware of it but did not apply it to the design," said one, who didn't want to be named as he is not authorized to talk to the media.

Hundreds of engineers wiring the MRJ did so without using a common design framework incorporating the new rule. So, when asked by Japanese regulators certifying the jet to FAA standards how it complied with the stricter standard, Mitsubishi Aircraft faced a time-consuming task to explain each twist and turn in the 23,000 wires snaking through the plane's fuselage.

"They decided it would be easier to start from scratch," the second person said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan ... SKBN17J1ST

KarelXWB wrote:

As for the design flaw:

Mitsubishi, which had by then begun work on the MRJ, overlooked the change, said two people with knowledge of the project. "Mitsubishi was clearly aware of it but did not apply it to the design," said one, who didn't want to be named as he is not authorized to talk to the media.

Hundreds of engineers wiring the MRJ did so without using a common design framework incorporating the new rule. So, when asked by Japanese regulators certifying the jet to FAA standards how it complied with the stricter standard, Mitsubishi Aircraft faced a time-consuming task to explain each twist and turn in the 23,000 wires snaking through the plane's fuselage.

"They decided it would be easier to start from scratch," the second person said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan ... SKBN17J1ST

I think that this is very typical Japanese fault. They are aware of the dault but not do anything about it until its too late.

just read some old report that other than those 737s, ANA hane also leased 3 props from bombardier last year to combat problems caused by the delay

Flightglobal visited the MRJ assembly line and published photos of FTA-5, FTA-6, FTA-7 and FTA-8 (first MRJ70):

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... io-436558/

Due to the latest delays, at least 2 additional test aircraft will be needed.

KarelXWB wrote:

Flightglobal visited the MRJ assembly line and published photos of FTA-5, FTA-6, FTA-7 and FTA-8 (first MRJ70):

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... io-436558/

Due to the latest delays, at least 2 additional test aircraft will be needed.

FTA-8 really doesn't look like a MRJ70 to me, honestly none of them do but if I had to pick the one that looked like it the most it would be FTA-7.

Well the article claims aircraft 8 is the first MRJ70.

Aircraft eight is the first MRJ70 variant to be assembled, but visiting media did not have a close view of the aircraft.

Perhaps FTA-8 is not aircraft 8?

With the current production of frames slowed due to the ongoing design review, Mitsubishi Aircraft should take a serious, hard look at the design of the MRJ70. As currently configured, this model will seat a maximum of 76 passengers in a one-class layout. This is potentially troublesome and may, ultimately, not be good enough, considering the aircraft it will be competing against—the E175 and CRJ900—both of which offer a 76 seat, 2-class configuration. If it wishes to see success in the United States with the MRJ70, it is vital that Mitsubishi explore ways to match this basic 2-class, 76-seat configuration.

At this same time, it's very possible a jet with a 76-seat, one-class configuration may find acceptance. For many years, U.S. regionals flew the CRJ200 in one-class, 44- to 50-seat configurations. The plane was a resounding success and money was made. It was, after all, a true regional jet ideal for short- and middle-distance flights. The MRJ70, likewise, is a true regional jet, just marginally larger than the CRJ200. If introduced into the market as planned, it probably will become the smallest regional jet in the marketplace of the 2020s and 2030s. And being the smallest jet may lead to success as dozens of smaller markets that are unable to support larger aircraft, particularly when multiple frequencies are taken into account, may be more viable with a plane such as the MRJ70. Indeed, this niche may be considerable.

But there's significant risk the MRJ70 will not find acceptance in the U.S., considering the competition. If there is any reasonable way to fit a two-class confirmation into the MRJ70 without sacrificing the number of seats, it should be pursued. Perhaps another row could be squeezed in by reducing the luggage stowage area in the back. Maybe the aircraft could be stretched another 6 feet or so. Everything should be looked at again. These suggestions, of course, will require significant redesign efforts as well as the new manufacturing of sections. And yet if the aircraft is failing to find a market—and at this point in time it has 0 orders—few other options are available. Of course Mitsubishi could shelve the model and concentrate on the MRJ90. It may also decide to stay pat and move forward with the MRJ70 as designed. At the very least, and I've stressed this before, Mitsubishi must receive meaningful, straight-forward evaluations and appraisals from potential customers concerning the MRJ70. They should ask for and receive no less.

Mitsubishi Aircraft Vice President Nobuo Kishi says the MRJ has gained 660 flight hours on 239 flights so far. Furthermore, FTA-7 will feature the new design and will be ferried to Moses Lake. Source: http://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/118428

They aren't kidding. FTA-3 logged some major miles and hours today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... j/#d352da9

One of the birds has been flown back to Florida.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... j/#d694544

ordell wrote:

One of the birds has been flown back to Florida.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... j/#d694544

Maybe she's being repainted into the ANA livery?

They could do that in Seattle.

All of the planes are grounded. No flights in days for all 4. Wonder what's up.

JA21MJ, JA22MJ and JA24MJ resumed operations yesterday, while JA23MJ is still on the ground.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja21mj/#d7fce19
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja22mj#d7fc285
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja24mj/#d7fd332

JA23MJ has been repainted in ANA colors:



At first sight it looked like FTA-5 but registration shows JA23MJ:



https://twitter.com/MobileRegional/stat ... 8496685056

She looks pretty.

She looks very good indeed. Furthermore, Mitsubishi Aircraft today officially announced JA23MJ will participate in the Paris Air Show next month and will therefore also get a new interior. http://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/120671