Airbus A320neo family production thread - 2015-2017 (part 7)

TheGeordielad · Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:44 am

Lufthansa #10 (only 5 have been delivered)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/xfwspotter/34809714360/

TheGeordielad · Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:48 am

GoAir #10
https://www.flickr.com/photos/146519169 ... 173875416/

Someone83 · Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:01 am

MSN7676 scheduled for delivery today

Airbus A320 -251N 7676 SE-ROB SAS delivery 14jun17 XFW-ARN ex D-AXAD

Someone83 · Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:10 pm

MSN7612 and MSN7638 delivered

Airbus A320 -251N 7612 9M-AGD AirAsia delivery 14-15jun17 TLS-GYD-KUL ex F-WWBI

Airbus A320 -251N 7638 VT-CIF Air India delivery 14jun17 TLS-DEL ex F-WWID

KarelXWB · Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:30 am

And easyJet as well:

Airbus A320 -251N 7649 G-UZHA easyJet delivery 14jun17 TLS-ORY-LTN ex F-WWIG

KarelXWB · Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:02 pm

S7 Airlines first A320neo is getting its engines installed.

https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/87 ... 871431681/

BOEING777EK · Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:22 am

Does anyone know when will tianjin airlines take delivery of their a320neo?

Someone83 · Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:05 am

Next one for Frontier scheduled for delivery today

Airbus A320 -251N 7642 N311FR Frontier Airlines delivery 16jun17 XFW-YYR-TPA "Mia the Dolphin" ex D-AUBV

mjoelnir · Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:09 am

BOEING777EK wrote:
Does anyone know when will tianjin airlines take delivery of their a320neo?

Two frames, MSN7333 and 7495, had its first flights a while ago, February and March respectively. They seem to be overdue for delivery, so it is difficult to estimate a date.

KarelXWB · Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:45 pm

Flightglobal published an article on the A320neo test campaign:

How Airbus managed a six-variant A320neo test campaign

Bour-Schaeffer explains that replacement of the old engines with the Neo's more efficient powerplants results in a 1.8t weight increase, which Airbus has overcome from an operational performance perspective. "We wanted to develop exactly the same take-off and landing performance or even better than on the Ceo.

...

The A320neo V speeds are actually lower than those on the A320ceo, due to lower Vmu and a new rotation control law introduced on the Neo variants. "This enables us to offer very good take-off performance," says Miche de Malleray.

The Neo's increased rudder deflection, along with a new "Vmcg law", has also helped decrease the re-engined variants' minimum control-speed values. All A320neo variants also have a new tail-strike protection system built into the control law which is only valid for take-off.

KarelXWB · Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:27 am

CFM expects ETOPS 180 approval at the end of the month:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-438312/

anshabhi · Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:07 am

Pratt & Whitney Receives ETOPS Certification for PurePower® Engine for Airbus A320neo

PARIS AIR SHOW, Paris, June 19, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- Pratt & Whitney's PurePower PW1100G-JM engine has been granted 180 minute Extended Range Operations (ETOPS) eligibility by the European Aviation Safety Agency. The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration had approved ETOPs for the engine in December 2016.

http://newsroom.pw.utc.com/2017-06-19-P ... us-A320neo

KarelXWB · Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:46 am

Wow Air took delivery of its first A321neo, becoming the 2nd operator of the type.

http://www.airleasecorp.com/press/air-l ... to-wow-air

StTim · Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:07 am

Is this another LEAP frame?

LoganTheBogan · Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:25 am

When is Airbus stopping production of the A320ceo?

mjoelnir · Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:47 am

StTim wrote:
Is this another LEAP frame?

Yes

mjoelnir · Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:53 am

LoganTheBogan wrote:
When is Airbus stopping production of the A320ceo?

It will still be produced at least in 2019, I assume that Airbus will produce A320ceo family frames as long they get orders for them. I do not think that they are specially discounted.

flee · Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
LoganTheBogan wrote:
When is Airbus stopping production of the A320ceo?

It will still be produced at least in 2019, I assume that Airbus will produce A320ceo family frames as long they get orders for them. I do not think that they are specially discounted.

They are discounted - I was informed that Airasia wanted to get more A320Neo's this year but Airbus could not deliver due to the ramp up difficulties of CFM. They were offered A320Ceos at special low prices instead.

flee · Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:10 pm

CFM LEAP-1A, LEAP-1B gain ETOPS certification from FAA, EASA

CFM International’s LEAP-1A and LEAP-1B engines have gained 180-minute extended-range, twin-engine operations (ETOPS) approval from FAA and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA).

The LEAP-1A is an engine choice on Airbus A320neo family aircraft; the LEAP-1B is the sole-source engine for Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.

See: http://atwonline.com/paris-air-show-201 ... n-faa-easa

StTim · Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:11 pm

I suppose it is hardly surprising that the engine manufacturers (both) are struggling with the ramp up. The engines from CFM are more substantially different in the new model so the engineering and production process has changed much more than it has for the frame itself.

Of course for P&W they are supporting multiple frames with slightly different architectures with a brand new engine.

Hey ho.

mjoelnir · Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:57 pm

[list=][/list]

flee wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
LoganTheBogan wrote:
When is Airbus stopping production of the A320ceo?

It will still be produced at least in 2019, I assume that Airbus will produce A320ceo family frames as long they get orders for them. I do not think that they are specially discounted.

They are discounted - I was informed that Airasia wanted to get more A320Neo's this year but Airbus could not deliver due to the ramp up difficulties of CFM. They were offered A320Ceos at special low prices instead.

They did than not discount the A320ceo in a A320ceo sale, they were offering a very good customer a deal to compensate for late delivery, completely different thing.

flee · Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:31 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
[list=][/list]
flee wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
It will still be produced at least in 2019, I assume that Airbus will produce A320ceo family frames as long they get orders for them. I do not think that they are specially discounted.

They are discounted - I was informed that Airasia wanted to get more A320Neo's this year but Airbus could not deliver due to the ramp up difficulties of CFM. They were offered A320Ceos at special low prices instead.

They did than not discount the A320ceo in a A320ceo sale, they were offering a very good customer a deal to compensate for late delivery, completely different thing.

I am sorry, but that is not the case - Airasia wanted to take MORE Neo's than originally scheduled but Airbus could not find slots for them because supply was tight. So they offered the Ceo's instead. These are new orders - their Neo backlog remains unchanged.

StTim · Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:45 am

I have noticed that Easyjet are flying 6 to 8 sectors a day with their first neo. It has been used on a number of different rotations. It hasn't been used on the longest sectors so far (max I have seen was LTN - AGP) but it seems to be settling in well.

mjoelnir · Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:29 pm

flee wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
[list=][/list]
flee wrote:
They are discounted - I was informed that Airasia wanted to get more A320Neo's this year but Airbus could not deliver due to the ramp up difficulties of CFM. They were offered A320Ceos at special low prices instead.

They did than not discount the A320ceo in a A320ceo sale, they were offering a very good customer a deal to compensate for late delivery, completely different thing.

I am sorry, but that is not the case - Airasia wanted to take MORE Neo's than originally scheduled but Airbus could not find slots for them because supply was tight. So they offered the Ceo's instead. These are new orders - their Neo backlog remains unchanged.

Still about satisfying a important customer rather than going out and looking to sell additional A320family ceo on a heavy discount, because you need them to fill a gap in production.

KarelXWB · Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:55 pm

Another A321neo customer emerged from final assembly: Novair MSN 7746, CFM powered.

A321neo Apollo by novair SE-RKA by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr

anshabhi · Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:04 pm

GoAir will receive 14 more NEOs by March next year.

jetlife2 · Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:40 pm

flee wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
[list=][/list]
flee wrote:
They are discounted - I was informed that Airasia wanted to get more A320Neo's this year but Airbus could not deliver due to the ramp up difficulties of CFM. They were offered A320Ceos at special low prices instead.

They did than not discount the A320ceo in a A320ceo sale, they were offering a very good customer a deal to compensate for late delivery, completely different thing.

I am sorry, but that is not the case - Airasia wanted to take MORE Neo's than originally scheduled but Airbus could not find slots for them because supply was tight. So they offered the Ceo's instead. These are new orders - their Neo backlog remains unchanged.

This last comment is correct. CFM does not have ramp up difficulties holding back neo delivery. They are within a few engines of being on schedule. More total LEAP powered neo have now delivered than PW, despite starting 9 months later, and the gap is growing.

lightsaber · Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:22 pm

jetlife2 wrote:
flee wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
[list=][/list]
They did than not discount the A320ceo in a A320ceo sale, they were offering a very good customer a deal to compensate for late delivery, completely different thing.

I am sorry, but that is not the case - Airasia wanted to take MORE Neo's than originally scheduled but Airbus could not find slots for them because supply was tight. So they offered the Ceo's instead. These are new orders - their Neo backlog remains unchanged.

This last comment is correct. CFM does not have ramp up difficulties holding back neo delivery. They are within a few engines of being on schedule. More total LEAP powered neo have now delivered than PW, despite starting 9 months later, and the gap is growing.

Both engine vendors are very short.

Bostrom · Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:22 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Another A321neo customer emerged from final assembly: Novair MSN 7746, CFM powered.

A321neo Apollo by novair SE-RKA by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr

According to the Swedish edition of Wikipedia it is scheduled for its first flight saturday next week. Is that possible?

mjoelnir · Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:12 am

jetlife2 wrote:
flee wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
[list=][/list]
They did than not discount the A320ceo in a A320ceo sale, they were offering a very good customer a deal to compensate for late delivery, completely different thing.

I am sorry, but that is not the case - Airasia wanted to take MORE Neo's than originally scheduled but Airbus could not find slots for them because supply was tight. So they offered the Ceo's instead. These are new orders - their Neo backlog remains unchanged.

This last comment is correct. CFM does not have ramp up difficulties holding back neo delivery. They are within a few engines of being on schedule. More total LEAP powered neo have now delivered than PW, despite starting 9 months later, and the gap is growing.

Also LEAP neo deliveries are late, not as late as GTF, but late anyway. There are frames waiting for LEAP engines, I would guess about 10. There must be 35 frames waiting for GTF engines. There is no rationale for ceo slots being available, rather than neo, if neo engines were available. Air Asia uses LEAP.

KarelXWB · Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:43 am

Next China Southern delivered:

Airbus A320 -271N 7477 B-8965 China Southern delivery 23jun17 TLS-TSE ex F-WWBM

KarelXWB · Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:08 am

Bostrom wrote:
According to the Swedish edition of Wikipedia it is scheduled for its first flight saturday next week. Is that possible?

First flight is today: https://fr24.com/AIB746A/dd54583

Did you mean the first revenue flight?

A321neo Apollo by novair SE-RKA firstflight by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr

Bostrom · Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:47 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
According to the Swedish edition of Wikipedia it is scheduled for its first flight saturday next week. Is that possible?

First flight is today: https://fr24.com/AIB746A/dd54583

Did you mean the first revenue flight?

Yes, I meant first revenue flight.

KarelXWB · Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:41 am

Earlier this month Premium AEROTEC delivered the first A321 fuselage section with the new door configuration.

The extensive changes to the construction primarily facilitate better use of the passenger cabin, enabling the cabin capacity to be expanded from the original 220 passengers to accommodate 240 passengers without increasing the length of the fuselage. These are the most comprehensive changes to the A321 since it was first developed in 1992. Significant differences compared to the existing A321 are a new arrangement of the passenger doors and modernisation of the emergency exit doors in the central section. Furthermore, optional additional fuel tanks can be integrated into the fuselage in order to extend the aircraft’s range. For example, airline companies using the A321neo ACF will be able to fly coast to coast across the US in the future. This model will also offer on-board internet access right from the first aircraft. All of the changes were undertaken using state-of-the-art 3D construction tools.

Press release
https://www.premium-aerotec.com/en/medi ... to-airbus/

hOMSaR · Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:27 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Earlier this month Premium AEROTEC delivered the first A321 fuselage section with the new door configuration.

The extensive changes to the construction primarily facilitate better use of the passenger cabin, enabling the cabin capacity to be expanded from the original 220 passengers to accommodate 240 passengers without increasing the length of the fuselage. These are the most comprehensive changes to the A321 since it was first developed in 1992. Significant differences compared to the existing A321 are a new arrangement of the passenger doors and modernisation of the emergency exit doors in the central section. Furthermore, optional additional fuel tanks can be integrated into the fuselage in order to extend the aircraft’s range. For example, airline companies using the A321neo ACF will be able to fly coast to coast across the US in the future. This model will also offer on-board internet access right from the first aircraft. All of the changes were undertaken using state-of-the-art 3D construction tools.

I thought the A321neo already had coast-to-coast range. Even later deliveries of the A321ceo can do it. Are they referring to full-Y config and max payload? Or MIA-SEA, BOS-LAX?

pugman211 · Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:45 pm

Is this going to be the A321 253N designations I've been seeing lately??

KarelXWB · Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:49 pm

I don't think so, Airbus already delivered an A321-253N to Wow Air. I believe 253N just refers to a different thrust setting:

> A321-251N: CFM LEAP-1A32
> A321-252N: CFM LEAP-1A30
> A321-253N: CFM LEAP-1A33

pugman211 · Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:53 pm

Thanks Karel. So this A321 is the one with the overwing exits?? MSN number anyone??

reidar76 · Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:59 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Earlier this month Premium AEROTEC delivered the first A321 fuselage section with the new door configuration.

Isn't this about one year earlier than previously announced?

https://leehamnews.com/2015/01/18/a321n ... roduction/

Polot · Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:05 pm

reidar76 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Earlier this month Premium AEROTEC delivered the first A321 fuselage section with the new door configuration.

Isn't this about one year earlier than previously announced?

They just delivered the first fuselage section. Not the entire aircraft ready for delivery.

KarelXWB · Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:28 pm

Indeed, this is just pre-assembly. The first aircraft is still months away from entering final assembly. And if Airbus needs to certify the new door configuration, it will take some time.

MileHFL400 · Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:27 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Wow Air took delivery of its first A321neo, becoming the 2nd operator of the type.

http://www.airleasecorp.com/press/air-l ... to-wow-air

When is this due to enter service?

TheGeordielad · Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:34 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
According to the Swedish edition of Wikipedia it is scheduled for its first flight saturday next week. Is that possible?

First flight is today: https://fr24.com/AIB746A/dd54583

Did you mean the first revenue flight?

A321neo Apollo by novair SE-RKA firstflight by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr

Why does it have Apollo on it? It wasn't on the other NOVAIR a321s?
Anyway it looks nice.

TheGeordielad · Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:35 pm

Bostrom wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
According to the Swedish edition of Wikipedia it is scheduled for its first flight saturday next week. Is that possible?

First flight is today: https://fr24.com/AIB746A/dd54583

Did you mean the first revenue flight?

Yes, I meant first revenue flight.

It's apparently going to be delivered in July to its Oslo base and the 2nd in August to Stockholm.

HtC · Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:31 pm

pugman211 wrote:
MSN number anyone??

MSN7877

Greetings
HtC

Azoresst · Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:53 pm

HtC wrote:
pugman211 wrote:
MSN number anyone??

MSN7877

Greetings
HtC

Isn't MSN7877 the first A321NEO LR?

KarelXWB · Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:40 am

MSN 7877 is listed as A321-251NX, I'm also seeing A321-253NX and A321-271NX designations. Not sure if the X refers to the LR model (probably not), or the new door configuration (most likely).

Someone83 · Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:49 am

TheGeordielad wrote:
Why does it have Apollo on it? It wasn't on the other NOVAIR a321s?
Anyway it looks nice.

Apollo is the company behind Novair, and their travelt are sold through the Apollo brand her in Scandinavia, and thus much more known as a brand than Novair

KarelXWB · Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:10 am

jetlife2 wrote:
CFM does not have ramp up difficulties holding back neo delivery.

The situation is better than P&W, just not perfect yet. Airbus puts quite some CFM powered A320neo aircraft in temporary storage until engines arrive. Right now CFM engine deliveries are not on pair with final assembly sequence. In a mature program, engines arrive exactly on time.

F-WWIU by cliper31, on Flickr

F-WWIV by cliper31, on Flickr

F-WWTR by cliper31, on Flickr

F-WWTY by cliper31, on Flickr

mjoelnir · Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:21 am

KarelXWB wrote:
jetlife2 wrote:
CFM does not have ramp up difficulties holding back neo delivery.

The situation is better than P&W, just not perfect yet. Airbus puts quite some CFM powered A320neo aircraft in temporary storage until engines arrive. Right now CFM engine deliveries are not on pair with final assembly sequence. In a mature program, engines arrive exactly on time.

Those pictures are only in TLS and not all of them and there are more in XFW including A321 destined for LEAP engines. The other indication is that frames are late delivered to airlines for example SAS.

The GTF woes are well publicised, LEAP woes less so.

I thought Boeing was getting preferred treatment, but there are the deliveries also late or mean delivering of a glider with "loaned" engines to Malindo with their own engines following later.

I would put the shortfall of neo engines at Airbus at about 80 GTF and up to 30 LEAP.

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