Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting BravoEchoNov (Thread starter): Alaska Airlines |
Quoting BravoEchoNov (Thread starter): Jetblue |
Quoting BravoEchoNov (Thread starter): Hawaiian |
Quoting BravoEchoNov (Thread starter): |
Quoting eal (Reply 2): The next merger will be between the ULCCs, the Denver Business Journal should be looking at the other big airline in town, and I'm not talking about UA. |
Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 15): Does anyone know off hand how large WN would be compared to the U.S. 3 if the DOJ approved a merger between WN and any of the 3 airlines being discussed as candidates? |
Quoting hnl-jack (Reply 17): Like has been discussed here so many times before, out of this group I believe a case could only be made for AS and HA, but not now. |
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 3): JB and Alaska don't fill any route voids. |
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 3): |
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 14): If the Big 4 controls nearly 80% of the US domestic market, how can anyone think that the govt will welcome another 4-5% being absorbed into the airline cabal. |
Quoting MaverickTTT (Reply 28): Anyone who still things an AS merger makes sense is hung up on the 737 and nothing more. I don't think fleet commonality matters nearly as much as it used to. |
Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 26): WN didn't merge with FL. They bought FL so the DOJ really couldn't do anything. If they go with that same model, again, DOJ won't be able to say anything. |
Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 26): WN didn't merge with FL. They bought FL so the DOJ really couldn't do anything. |
Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 26): If they go with that same model, again, DOJ won't be able to say anything. |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29): WN+AS would give them more presence at LAX |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29): essential dominance for up-and-down the west coast |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29): It would also give WN the much needed Hawaii network. |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29): WN+B6 can fill in all the transcon, NYC, and BOS gaps that is painfully lacking in WN's network |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29): Their FLL-based LatAm network also compliments well with the WN |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29): plus international partners |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29): Problem is that a large chunk of B6's success comes from their willingness to codeshare with anyone and everyone, something that's not in WN's gene. |
Quoting enilria (Reply 32): The other problem is the culture mix. B6, and to some extent FL, were VERY open-minded with int'l in terms of doing what it took to make the foreign routes successful. Foreign speaking FAs, local sales channels, facilitating cash sales in other countries, int'l sales force, functional foreign currency technology...etc. WN does all of those barely or not at all. They would gut B6 internationally if they handle it like they handled FL. Technology is a big part of the problem, but it is also the culture to a great extent and they both feed on each other to stymie the airline in these areas. The mantra is KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid. That serves them well in many areas, but international isn't simple and attempting to do it half-@ssed in order to "keep it simple" just doesn't succeed outside a few niches with all Americans like CUN and SJD. |
Quoting MaverickTTT (Reply 28): B6 might've made sense a couple years ago. The stock was trading at about 1/3 what it is now and it would have offered JFK access, some near-international route authorities, and the excuse to move toward assigned/premium seating. |
Quoting enilria (Reply 22): Southwest has become like the Big3. Mergers are now to eliminate competitors more than fill route voids. I would hope DOJ would stop any more deals. IMHO, B6 is the most consistent with their strategy. WN wants to be a business airline. WN is weak in BOS and NYC. LGB is a thorn they could shut down. AS adds nothing except a war with DL. HA adds nothing that they would want they can't easily do themselves. |
Quoting airplaneboy (Reply 15): Jetblue, Hawaiian and Alaska have mostly complementary networks when compared to Southwest's, so a merger between WN and any of those 3 carriers wouldn't cause much antitrust concern from a consumer standpoint- it would only enlarge (or establish in some cases) WN's footprint in key markets (SEA/PDX/Hawaii with AS, JFK/BOS/FLL with B6, and HNL with HA). |
Quoting DL747400 (Reply 24): Operationally, WN is a mess and they have been struggling for the past 2-3 years. Customers do notice whether you are ontime, when flights are cancelled, when bags are late or lost. Evolve hard product is a disaster. Boarding process is just............ a zoo. |
Quoting eal (Reply 2): Slow news day, pretty evident by this articles lack of any details besides the obvious "Southwest just finished a merger, this means they can merge again". |
Quoting ScottB (Reply 39): I do agree with this, though. While I don't believe there are any serious structural impediments to a merger with any of B6/AS/HA, I also don't see it happening in the near future. |
Quoting BravoEchoNov (Thread starter): It states that Southwest is possibly contemplating a merger with Alaska Airlines, Hawaiian, or Jetblue. Thoughts? |
Quoting eal (Reply 2): Slow news day, pretty evident by this articles lack of any details besides the obvious "Southwest just finished a merger, this means they can merge again". |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 34): It was really sad when WN completely torn apart the ATL network *and* sold the FL 717s to DL to use against them, essentially slitting their own throat and their own wrist at the same time. |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 36): Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 35): The point is WN bought FL. They didn't merge. How the transaction was structured is just semantics. From the DOT/DOJ's point of view, any transaction that results in less competition will be scrutinized regardless of who bought what. |
Quoting Moose135 (Reply 38): Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 35): The point is WN bought FL. They didn't merge. No, the point is they still needed DOJ approval, as noted in the link I provided. |
Quoting ScottB (Reply 39): I disagree that DOJ would block a WN merger with any of the three airlines mentioned -- largely because there is generally so little overlap between their respective networks. |
Quoting ScottB (Reply 39): WN is so small in BOS & NYC that a B6 merger would pose almost no competitive concern. They could certainly offer slots and gates at LGB as a concession considering that WN likely is not all that interested in maintaining the LGB focus city. |
Quoting ScottB (Reply 39): I agree about HA to a point, but I also have to imagine that the interisland operation prints money now that they have almost no competition. |
Quoting ScottB (Reply 39): a long-haul operation if they have an interest in doing so. |
Quoting ScottB (Reply 39): WN's on-time performance has been a mess, but it has also markedly improved over the last year. |
Quoting richierich (Reply 40): I think the US mergers are in a period of dormancy |
Quoting enilria (Reply 45): Quoting ScottB (Reply 39): WN's on-time performance has been a mess, but it has also markedly improved over the last year. To be fair, they did not fix it by getting their operation back to the old days. They did it by lengthening turns and block times. That's what the legacies do. It's not low cost. |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 46): Let's put that in perspective. Here are the mainline-only stats for the last 30 days (flightstats.com) |
Quoting enilria (Reply 45): they did not fix it by getting their operation back to the old days. They did it by lengthening turns and block times. That's what the legacies do. It's not low cost. |
Quoting enilria (Reply 45): WN would still gut B6 internationally and I question whether WN is at all capable of making JFK work. Do you think WN can make money flying domestic routes from JFK? Or will they just hand it to Delta after overpaying for it as is their tradition? I'm sure Delta would take B6's entire fleet as well. |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 34): It was really sad when WN completely torn apart the ATL network *and* sold the FL 717s to DL to use against them, essentially slitting their own throat and their own wrist at the same time. |
Quoting ScottB (Reply 47): That's a nice chart and all, but mainline-only stats are pretty meaningless when DL/AA/UA shift a lot of the delays off to their regionals when weather goes downhill at their hubs. For June 2015, according to the same source you used, WN outperformed UA in on-time and was less than 1% behind AA/US. |
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29): WN+AS would give them more presence at LAX (albeit at a really poor split terminal scenario) and essential dominance for up-and-down the west coast. It would also give WN the much needed Hawaii network. But it won't solve any of their northeast network gaps. |