B6 Announces PHL-FLL, BWI-MCO

cessna53996 · Tue May 19, 2015 10:29 am

JetBlue announces new flights from Philly and Baltimore. PHL-FLL (2x daily) starts 11/19 and BWI-MCO (1x daily) starts 11/12.

Press release: https://t.co/H4BMvTFxDU

usairways85 · Tue May 19, 2015 11:09 am

Great addition for PHL. This comes a day after WN announced it is bringing back PHL-FLL seasonally.

enilria · Tue May 19, 2015 11:44 am

Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter):
JetBlue announces new flights from Philly and Baltimore. PHL-FLL (2x daily) starts 11/19 and BWI-MCO (1x daily) starts 11/12.

I find it pretty interesting they picked MCO over FLL. That really goes against the recent pattern. It shows some reluctance to take on NK when there are other options...and MCO is much less developed as a hub for B6.

a320fan · Tue May 19, 2015 11:46 am

Seems like route between strong WN cities. Interesting.

GLG20 · Tue May 19, 2015 11:54 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):

They already announced BWI-FLL to start in November.

rtalk25 · Tue May 19, 2015 12:11 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 1):

Great addition for PHL

Yes, great addition. Next it needs is an early morning PHL-BOS flight.

FLIHGH · Tue May 19, 2015 12:28 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):

Even more head to head against NK out of BWI is coming soon.

FLIHGH · Tue May 19, 2015 12:36 pm

Also....another tease: JetBlue's MCO-BWI arrives at 5:15PM on a 320....and they currently don't have another 320 flight for the rest of the day, meaning the Airbus would overnight......hmmmm....

rta · Tue May 19, 2015 12:39 pm

For some reason I thought FLL-PHL already existed. Maybe that was US

MesaFlyGuy · Tue May 19, 2015 1:02 pm

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 7):

I noticed that the schedules seem to incidicate a XXX-BWI-MCO-BWI-XXX routing for the aircraft.

jetsetter629 · Tue May 19, 2015 1:06 pm

The PHL-FLL was long overdue, not just for O&D, but for connections to their Caribbean and Latin America traffic

usairways85 · Tue May 19, 2015 1:51 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 5):

Yes, great addition. Next it needs is an early morning PHL-BOS flight.

Similar to what is being implied with the BWI-MCO flight, I had hopped that B6 might rotate the aircraft through BOS either with an additional frequency or upgauge in aircraft. A BOS-PHL-FLL-PHL-BOS 320 routing could cater to any increase in demand from the BOS end, obviously that has to exist to warrant an upgrade from a 190 to a 320. Or even a PHL-BOS-PHL-FLL-PHL, however the additional BOS rotation might not allow for optimal PHL-FLL-PHL flight times.

enilria · Tue May 19, 2015 2:01 pm

Quoting GLG20 (Reply 4):
They already announced BWI-FLL to start in November.

Ahhhh. OK

MaverickM11 · Tue May 19, 2015 2:05 pm

""We thought it was time to bring a little humanity back to air travel in Baltimore and Philadelphia, where customers deserve a better experience at a low price," said Scott Laurence, senior vice president airline planning, JetBlue. "No more cattle car boarding."

Alrighty then.

usairways85 · Tue May 19, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
Alrighty then.

I caught that too...a nice swift jab in there.

rtalk25 · Tue May 19, 2015 2:20 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
""We thought it was time to bring a little humanity back to air travel in Baltimore and Philadelphia, where customers deserve a better experience at a low price," said Scott Laurence, senior vice president airline planning, JetBlue. "No more cattle car boarding."

Interesting view because out of PHL the primary competitor is AA/US not WN.

Let alone this jab at WN will fire a response... although AUS-BOS might have initiated some B6 reaction.

Out of BWI, I wondered why NK didn't launch BWI-MCO first. NK seems to fill ACY-MCO without issue even though there is the 28" seat pitch. That legroom is suitable for young kids that anyways can take the middle seat and for families that want assigned seating.

I would have thought NK could fill BWI-MCO with Maryland families even if it's the small carrier against WN, but B6 is adding it before NK.

NK has added some atypical leisure routes like MCI-DTW.

[Edited 2015-05-19 07:21:26]

Sightseer · Tue May 19, 2015 3:12 pm

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 7):
https://t.co/H4BMvTFxDU

The newly announced MCO-MEX-MCO service leaves at 9:35 pm and returns at 9:56 am, although it does start over a month before BWI.

richierich · Tue May 19, 2015 3:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
I find it pretty interesting they picked MCO over FLL. That really goes against the recent pattern. It shows some reluctance to take on NK when there are other options...and MCO is much less developed as a hub for B6.

MCO has a lot more O&D than FLL in general for B6, but I wouldn't call it a "much less developed" hub or focus city. Besides LIM, and maybe one or two other smaller Caribbean destinations, how is FLL much more developed for B6? (I assume there are not too many people who would fly BWI-FLL-AUS even if that were possible...)

lpdal · Tue May 19, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting rta (Reply 8):
Maybe that was US

Yes, US {opby AA?) does fly this route.

I see NK adding PHL-FLL next, considering they already have a few destinations in the cooker at that location.

-LPDAL

jetbluefan1 · Tue May 19, 2015 3:32 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 1):
This comes a day after WN announced it is bringing back PHL-FLL seasonally.

If WN plans on building up an international operation out of FLL, then they will need to offer more than seasonal service from a major Northeast city.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
and MCO is much less developed as a hub for B6.

It's less developed, but not by much. MCO has stronger O&D, and there are a few connection opportunities (although FLL offers more connection opportunities). MCO continues to be in expansion mode for B6 - with SLC recently started, and the announcements of ALB and MEX service.

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 6):
Even more head to head against NK out of BWI is coming soon.

My guess is LAS.

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 15):
Let alone this jab at WN will fire a response... although AUS-BOS might have initiated some B6 reaction.

I think that this is somewhat of a response - in addition to the various BOS additions (to non-B6 markets), and the general hype of WN entering FLL-International markets (which should begin in 2017).

usairways85 · Tue May 19, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 19):
If WN plans on building up an international operation out of FLL, then they will need to offer more than seasonal service from a major Northeast city.

I'd agree.

WN has drastically downsized PHL in the past 5 years. In fact, I believe when they initially cut PHL-FLL it was announced as an outright cut, but then later announced as seasonal. That was a few months ago and I immediately thought they left the door open for B6 to enter the market.

ScottB · Tue May 19, 2015 4:02 pm

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 7):
Also....another tease: JetBlue's MCO-BWI arrives at 5:15PM on a 320....and they currently don't have another 320 flight for the rest of the day, meaning the Airbus would overnight......hmmmm....

I wouldn't place much faith in the aircraft scheduled for a flight or even the exact schedules more than six months out.

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 15):
Out of BWI, I wondered why NK didn't launch BWI-MCO first.

NK has a fairly significant connecting operation to the Caribbean and Latin America of its own at FLL. The morning BWI-FLL flight feeds AXM, AUA, BOG, CUN, CTG, GUA, KIN, MDE, MBJ, PUJ, SXM, STT, SJO, SJU, ZSA, SDQ, & TLC. The evening flight feeds BQN, ATL, MGA, MCO, PTY, SJO, SAP, SAL, STI, & TPA.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
""We thought it was time to bring a little humanity back to air travel in Baltimore and Philadelphia, where customers deserve a better experience at a low price," said Scott Laurence, senior vice president airline planning, JetBlue. "No more cattle car boarding."

Definitely an obvious poke -- but you have to imagine that B6 management/planning isn't happy with WN being in 13 non-stop markets from BOS at this point and preempting B6 in Midwest markets like MKE, STL, MCI, IND, & CMH where WN is relatively strong. And AUS-BOS was a pretty bold add by WN last week.

crazytoaster · Tue May 19, 2015 4:24 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 21):
Definitely an obvious poke -- but you have to imagine that B6 management/planning isn't happy with WN being in 13 non-stop markets from BOS at this point and preempting B6 in Midwest markets like MKE, STL, MCI, IND, & CMH where WN is relatively strong. And AUS-BOS was a pretty bold add by WN last week.

Good point, WN does serve all these Midwest cities to BOS now. With IND, CMH, AUS being added later this year, pretty obvious this was to beat B6 to the punch.

B6 could add MKE, IND, MCI to FLL service as WN only serves these markets seasonally before WN tries to build up FLL more for international services. Personally I would love to see B6 enter some more Midwest markets to add some competition.

MAH4546 · Tue May 19, 2015 4:41 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 17):
MCO has a lot more O&D than FLL in general for B6, but I wouldn't call it a "much less developed" hub or focus city. Besides LIM, and maybe one or two other smaller Caribbean destinations, how is FLL much more developed for B6?

I doubt MCO has "a lot more O&D in general."

Secondly, MCO does not service to Cartagena, Cleveland, Detroit, Jacksonville, Kingston, Las Vegas, Lima, Los Angeles, Medellin, Port-au-Prince, Port of Spain, Richmond and San Francisco, and soon Philadelphia and Quito.

MCO has three unique destinations - Aguadilla, Ponce and Syracuse. As it so happens, all three used to be flown from FLL.

VAM8789 · Tue May 19, 2015 4:53 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 21):

Has it been confirmed WN is going to start international ops from FLL?

WN has really built up a nice little network from BOS since they began servce - MDW, MKE, IND, CMH, AUS, DAL, HOU, DEN, BWI, ATL, MCI, BNA and STL. I am going to assume the BOS-AUS market is big enough to sustain 2 carriers

rtalk25 · Tue May 19, 2015 4:59 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 21):
NK has a fairly significant connecting operation to the Caribbean and Latin America of its own at FLL.

I suppose it worded it ambiguously, but I meant why NK hasn't add BWI-MCO first before B6 launching BWI-MCO.

While WN is very popular, with fares offering bags included and has the frequency advantage, there are always the kayak.com type fare searching passengers and those specifically wanting assigned seats that a second carrier would presumably fit on a route like BWI-MCO, whether it was NK or B6.

With B6 adding it, maybe NK will add it also, so who knows..

I've been on some MCO bound flights with families bringing aboard car seats and all random carryons- and all these will be carry on fees that might make the NK model not working on competitive MCO routes, although F9 with similar model seems to be making PHL-MCO (against US and WN) work.

jeffh747 · Tue May 19, 2015 5:15 pm

Finally! Really glad to see this route to give me a break over the usual AA/US/NK mix up here to go down to SoFlo!

Sightseer · Tue May 19, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 16):

Edit: I see now that the flight in question was MCO-BWI, not BWI-MCO. We should see another A320 flight ex-BWI.

FLIHGH · Tue May 19, 2015 8:14 pm

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 27):

Correct-- plus, the planes are only on the ground for 6 hours in MEX, as they leave at 535 the next morning.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 21):

There are at least two more routes for BWI coming...one of which is planned for a 320.

adamh8297 · Tue May 19, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 28):
There are at least two more routes for BWI coming...one of which is planned for a 320.

My bet would be two of these RSW/TPA/PBI - maybe SJU.

panam330 · Tue May 19, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 28):
There are at least two more routes for BWI coming...one of which is planned for a 320.

SJU, anyone?

FLIHGH · Tue May 19, 2015 9:14 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 29):

Quoting panam330 (Reply 30):

I'm not too familiar with overnight procedures at non DC airports-- do planes usually overnight in non hub Florida airports and SJU?

spartanmjf · Tue May 19, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
"No more cattle car boarding."

Actually, having just had my first generally unpleasant Blue experience in and out of FLL, I found their boarding process (and UA/DL/AA) to be far more cattle-car like than WN.

doulasc · Tue May 19, 2015 11:07 pm

I think its great to see B6 is adding on to PHL.I hope to see PHL-MCO and maybe TPA and SJU.

heavymetal · Tue May 19, 2015 11:22 pm

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 28):

Do you have inside knowledge of this? What is the time frame for an announcement? I am suspect that there are "at least" 2 more coming. After the recent MCO and FLL announcements, I could see possibly SJU. But I'm not sure if I see much beyond that, at least for quite some time.

FLIHGH · Wed May 20, 2015 12:17 am

Quoting heavymetal (Reply 34):

I don't have a timeframe, unfortunately. Just the destinations.

jfklganyc · Wed May 20, 2015 2:43 am

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 35):
I don't have a timeframe, unfortunately. Just the destinations.

Honestly, you shouldn't be talking about it here. If you are embedded in LIC, there is no need to get on a public forum and discuss this stuff.

I know you are trying to "tease." But what you are doing is the equivalent of walking into the room with a bullhorn and announcing "I have a secret."

If you really do have a secret because you work at HQ, keep it to yourself like you are supposed to. (Fireable offense) And if you do not work there, you have no secret...you have speculation. But I suspect you do work there, because this is the second or third thread I have seen you post your "I have a secret about BWI" line.

What I am saying is, I know you are fooling yourself into thinking you are keeping a secret...but in you effort to garner attention for yourself on an anonymous aviation forum you are not really keeping a secret at all. And the guys in route planning may not like that.

FLIHGH · Wed May 20, 2015 12:36 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 36):

I do not work for any airline. I do not know what LIC stands for.

This all started from me responding to a post saying "BWI will never grow any more" or something along those lines. I'm not walking into a room will a bullhorn.

The routes have already been announced internally to specific groups of employees. Like I mentioned, I just don't have dates.

If you want to call me out on things that hundreds of other people have done over the years, that's fine.

747d10 · Wed May 20, 2015 12:54 pm

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 28):

Quote:
There are at least two more routes for BWI coming...one of which is planned for a 320.

How about SRQ? Please, oh please...we desperately need it. I'm so sick of driving to TPA.
Never mind that the plane might be empty. This is all about me!

jetbluefan1 · Wed May 20, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 20):
In fact, I believe when they initially cut PHL-FLL it was announced as an outright cut, but then later announced as seasonal.

It's pretty amazing to see how much WN has downsized PHL from its original entrance a decade ago. I wonder if B6 will have more luck. It's a good sign that BOS-PHL has stuck around, despite the numerous failed attempts by other airlines

Quoting ScottB (Reply 21):
but you have to imagine that B6 management/planning isn't happy with WN being in 13 non-stop markets from BOS at this point and preempting B6 in Midwest markets like MKE, STL, MCI, IND, & CMH where WN is relatively strong. And AUS-BOS was a pretty bold add by WN last week.

I think this is exactly what it is. B6 traditionally steered clear of WN markets, but given WN's rather aggressive growth in BOS to non-focus cities, it is quite clear that WN is trying to stump B6's growth in BOS.

I think the bigger picture here is that B6 is becoming much more aggressive in defending its territory. Just look at how quickly they have reacted to VX (SFO-LAS) and NK (FLL-CLE/DTW).

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 23):
Aguadilla, Ponce and Syracuse.

Don't forget about BUF!

It's surprising to me that B6 couldn't make BQN or PSE work - although I believe B6 had tried this quite a few years back, before FLL was as large of a focus city as it is today. How come NK can make these work?

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 24):
Has it been confirmed WN is going to start international ops from FLL?

Yes, in 2017-2018 once the international arrivals hall in Terminal A is done.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business...xpansion-plans-20141027-story.html

rtalk25 · Wed May 20, 2015 2:07 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 39):
It's pretty amazing to see how much WN has downsized PHL from its original entrance a decade ago. I wonder if B6 will have more luck. It's a good sign that BOS-PHL has stuck around, despite the numerous failed attempts by other airlines

WN cut PHL-FLL but then resumed it as seasonal. The summer load factors were low. I think B6 being able to sell international connections through FLL should help the flight during the summer months.

F9 also started PHL-MIA one flight a day but year-round. I'd be curious if F9 co-exists as well. I know some prefer to use MIA over FLL and there is a different submarket factor but I don't think it's that significant atleast for this route.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 39):
It's a good sign that BOS-PHL has stuck around,

It'd be better if an additional frequency, an early morning one, departing out of PHL was added since B6 now cares about PHL point of sale.

However, I think it's different type of passengers (those headed to BOS are likely business pax) and those headed to FLL are leisure/visiting second home type of pax but nonetheless an increase for PHL point of sale with a PHL-BOS increase, should be an easy short-haul single frequency addition. It'd be nice if PHL-BOS-PIT/CLE/RDU was salable as well through B6.

FLIHGH · Wed May 20, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting 747d10 (Reply 38):

I'm sure if you'd be willing to pay a hundred thousand a day for a flight, they'd launch for you

I didn't realize SRQ was so small. I was thinking DC area to another Gulf Coast airport could be beneficial to JetBlue, but SRQ doesn't even have flights to all of the legacy carrier hubs.

Cadet57 · Fri May 22, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 32):
Actually, having just had my first generally unpleasant Blue experience in and out of FLL, I found their boarding process (and UA/DL/AA) to be far more cattle-car like than WN.

I'm sorry to hear that. FLL really needs some work with their crews. I deal with their mess below the wing too.

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 37):
I do not work for any airline. I do not know what LIC stands for.

I'm assuming he is implying Long Island City. Where our headquarters is located.

727LOVER · Fri May 22, 2015 4:03 pm

Quoting 747d10 (Reply 38):
How about SRQ? Please, oh please...we desperately need it.

Quoting 747d10 (Reply 38):
Never mind that the plane might be empty.

Yeah, that's why FL flew the route for 6-7 years...mostly year-round....no traffic there.

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 41):
I didn't realize SRQ was so small.

I'll SLIGHTLY disagree....but it does have one advantage in the B6 route system....it's in Florida

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 41):
I was thinking DC area to another Gulf Coast airport could be beneficial to JetBlue

As said before,
Yeah, that's why FL flew the route for 6-7 years...mostly year-round....no traffic there.

Also:

Um...you know the BALTIMORE Orioles train in SARASOTA , right?

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 41):
but SRQ doesn't even have flights to all of the legacy carrier hubs.

Neither does PNS, JAX, TLH, DAB, MLB, GNV, PBI, RSW....hell, neither does TPA !

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