Irish 8/15: Wings Over Ireland

dergay · Thu May 14, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting richcandy (Reply 47):
richcandy

Anything to do with the current relationship between the Pound Sterling and Euro?

frostyj · Thu May 14, 2015 6:44 pm

Yes, with the exchange rate between the British Pound and the Euro it is about £300 cheaper for a family. It might not be much cheaper for one person though.

[Edited 2015-05-14 12:22:02]

frostyj · Thu May 14, 2015 6:45 pm

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 48):

We are talking about people in County Londonderry, Antrim, Donegal etc not the likes of Newry, Armagh and Enniskillen which may as well be in the Republic they are that far away. They are already close to that airport anyway so why would't they use it?

I don't like spending my money outside of my country but when theres only one transatlantic route and the flights are far cheaper we don't have much choice. If I had a choice I would choose Belfast because its a pain in the arse driving to Dublin at 160 miles.

Don't see too many people from down south using our airports though, even for shopping they stick to Newry and Enniskillen.

[Edited 2015-05-14 12:11:42]

OA260 · Thu May 14, 2015 6:50 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 46):

Interesting to see an update on what we already know especially for me thst lives between the 3 airports and have plenty of choice. DUB usually is the option and many of my friends in the trade in the North report more and more clients willing to go out of DUB.

Quoting dergay (Reply 50):

Its certainly helped but not the major factor and the current fall of the Euro is more recent than the travel habbits of the last 4-5 years and previous. It continues to grow and grow.

frostyj · Thu May 14, 2015 7:06 pm

It shows that these routes have a market, perhaps the numbers of people going down there would decrease if Belfast introduced more routes such as Istanbul, Helinski etc instead of Majorca etc constantly.

[Edited 2015-05-14 12:16:15]

frostyj · Thu May 14, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 53):

Again you sound like you live in Newry or somewhere which is almost closer to Dublin airport. Perhaps you should look further into Northern Ireland e.g. Larne, Omagh, Antrim etc considering thats where the Majority of the Northern Ireland population lives.

[Edited 2015-05-14 12:28:25]

JAmie2k9 · Thu May 14, 2015 7:34 pm

The NI figures are not a surprise, huge amounts of the North are closer to Dublin or better roads give better times. Combined with a 24/7 bus service. Then there is the range of routes, many of the busiest routes with NI passengers are served from Belfast anyway.

I don't see scrapping APD changing the trend at all, it will benefit airlines flying passengers to the sun but nothing else. I don't think current exchange rates are playing a major role either.

Dublin is always a big draw because of routes and particularly frequency.

EI320 · Thu May 14, 2015 9:28 pm

It would seem that Belfast's airports are simply too busy competing with each other to have the time or resources to focus on the Dublin issue. Until BFS and BHD can find ways of collaborating rather than competing (which realistically could only ever be properly achieved through joint ownership), there is a very remote chance of us ever seeing a strategy drawn up in Belfast that is strong enough to stem any of this flow.

Without a new approach, Belfast may as well forget about securing any additional long-haul services over the coming years, as if they are unable to grow capacity during a boom period (in terms of Transatlantic air travel), then the situation is truly hopeless.

[Edited 2015-05-14 14:33:25]

OA260 · Thu May 14, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 55):

Friends in Larne, Bangor, Ballymena, Coleraine, Derry, Strabane all head down to Dublin! Its not an issue for them and many actually say they prefer it as DUB has a better atmosphere than BFS which I have to
agree with. Its not changed much since I started using it nearly two decades ago. Just less premium carriers and no RUC check points looking for car bombs! Its a depressing airport. Sorry but thats the truth and many say the same to me. They could help things along by adding the small spur for the rail line but like everything in the North its one step forward two steps back.

----

Bit of an eventful flight with LH FRA-DUB tonight a passenger got sick but the crew were quick to act. Moved a few passengers and got the medi kit out. Calm and professional throughout. Other than that a pretty pleasant flight.

Gotta get the X1 up North now ! Not sure how I will cope

shamrock604 · Thu May 14, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 52):

Exactly. People decide on a number of factors, and the border generally isn't one of the considerations!

frostyj · Thu May 14, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 58):

I live in north Londonderry and its pretty far from me, it takes me about 3 hours to get there so we have to stop for a break to eat and stuff its pretty far away to be honest which is why I would never use it for anything other than a longhaul flight.

AmricanShamrok · Thu May 14, 2015 11:21 pm

Did EI commission a safety video for the 757s or are the demos still performed manually by crew?

OA260 · Fri May 15, 2015 10:54 am

Belfast International Airport boss has 'no concerns' over future of New York service

Belfast International Airport boss Graham Keddie said he has "no concerns" over the future of its New York link after new figures show a boost in Northern Ireland holidaymakers choosing to fly from Dublin.

The number of Northern Ireland residents using Dublin Airport has shot up by 50% - with New York the most popular destination, new figures have shown.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/bu...-of-new-york-service-31223634.html

OA260 · Fri May 15, 2015 12:08 pm

Traffic at Cork and Shannon airports decreases

Cork and Shannon airports suffered significant declines in their traffic movements last month, with Cork now down almost 12% this year compared to the first four months of 2014.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...non-airports-decreases-330208.html

richcandy · Fri May 15, 2015 12:44 pm

Hi

I am always kind of surprised that people think that driving to Dublin from Belfast to catch a flight is a big deal. Maybe its the I live in the centre of the world sort of attitude.

When I lived in Belfast I was a travel agent. I very clearly remember a lady who couldn't believe that there wasn't a direct service from Belfast to Vancouver. There were others and every so often you got passengers who thought that there should be flights from BFS to anywhere they wanted to go.

I now spend a good part of the year living in rural Burgundy and we have an airport 100km away at Dijon. The thing is there are hardly any flights from there and lots of people think this is crazy. But as Paris is 1hr 4mins away by TGV its not really that surprising.

The rest of the year I live in East Kent and our closest airport is LGW which is 70 miles away and takes between 1hr 20 mins to 2hrs to get to depending on traffic. No one seams to think that a 70 mile journey to the airport is strange. (or even the 90 mile trip to LHR)

Alex

[Edited 2015-05-15 05:46:55]

OA260 · Fri May 15, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting richcandy (Reply 64):
No one seams to think that a 70 mile journey to the airport is strange. (or even the 90 mile trip to LHR)

Indeed or even for those based in Strasbourg getting the LH shuttle buses to FRA which is a 2hr45mins journey 220KM. Ive done it a few times myself. I guess some people are more inward thinking where to others its normal.

AmricanShamrok · Fri May 15, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 63):
Traffic at Cork and Shannon airports decreases

Air traffic movement stats like that can be misleading. While the amount of takeoffs and landings at SNN has been reduced on last year (mainly due to the withdrawal of RE), passenger numbers continue to grow. Passenger traffic at SNN was up 16% in April.

f1eddie · Fri May 15, 2015 3:33 pm

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 48):
And I'm sure many in the Rep border counties also use BFS when convenient, but we won't hear about that of course.

Last year I took a Easyjet flight from BFS, with my sister, to go to Malta. Price was the main factor. €180 with Ryanair from DUB, or €100. I had to drive all the way from south Dublin to BFS... Imagine that.. Its a nice airline to fly with by the way...

Clydenairways · Fri May 15, 2015 3:43 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 66):

Air traffic movement stats like that can be misleading.

Yes. Those Ryanair movements carry a lot more pax than those previous ATR42 movements.
I honestly don't know why the IAA publish these movement stats to the media outlets because they misinterpret how an airport is doing.

aerdingus · Fri May 15, 2015 3:44 pm

Quoting f1eddie (Reply 67):
I had to drive all the way from south Dublin to BFS... Imagine that.. Its a nice airline to fly with by the way...

Aha, but how much did ya spend on diesel/petrol? Just curious...don't mean to be adding fuel to the fire

Clydenairways · Fri May 15, 2015 3:57 pm

Quoting f1eddie (Reply 67):
Last year I took a Easyjet flight from BFS, with my sister, to go to Malta. Price was the main factor. €180 with Ryanair from DUB, or €100. I had to drive all the way from south Dublin to BFS... Imagine that.. Its a nice airline to fly with by the way...

People should shop around a bit more, particularly if they are traveling as a family. I have said it before that not only has the motorway network opened up a larger catchment area for DUB, but it has also done the same for SNN in particular. as well as the other airports.
I was doing some price comparisons a year or so ago on a flight to Malaga during the high season, and the prices were really high ex DUB. There was also a weekly flight from SNN with EI which for a family with 2-3 kids worked out around €400 cheaper in total. There is also probably a long term car park saving too.
A family living even in Kildare is probably within 90 min of SNN but i bet many don't even check the prices there.

f1eddie · Fri May 15, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting aerdingus (Reply 69):
Aha, but how much did ya spend on diesel/petrol? Just curious...don't mean to be adding fuel to the fire

I have no idea. Maybe €50/€60. But it was between two of us, so there was a saving of €160 on the flights. The fuel only cost €60 out of that. Still enough of a saving to fly out from there.

frostyj · Fri May 15, 2015 6:42 pm

Most people don't travel to Dublin because its a 3 hour journey. It means you need to get up at the crack of dawn to get there for a normal flight to America.

Alot of people don't like going down there anyway because of obvious reasons. For me I prefer to spend my money here to boost my economy because that is where I live. I am not really prepared to drive for 3 hours for a 2 hour flight so there is a limit to "shopping around" which for ME is BHD, LDY and BFS.

The motorway may have made it a TINY bit faster but for those of us north of Belfast its still a hell of a treck.

Eirules · Fri May 15, 2015 7:01 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 72):

While I can understand some people not wanting a 3 hour drive to Dublin if they have a closer alternative, the limited networks from both Belfast airports doesn't always allow for an alternative. As for "a lot of people not wanting to go down there for obvious reasons" I personally think that's nonsense. Most reasonable people won't give a rats if it's significantly cheaper to fly from DUB and the remaining small minded minority can probably be accommodated to most places via a longer one stop connection in LHR. But to say a lot of people won't go to DUB due to this is ridiculous

shamrock321 · Fri May 15, 2015 7:31 pm

This argument is ruining this thread to be honest, let the figures speak for themselves and move on. We are all aware of the various historical factors involved none of which are aviation related!

Wingtip1005 · Fri May 15, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 76):

Very true.

As you say, the facts speak for themselves. I'd like to see much more from BFS citywise (like Copenhagen or Berlin), or Belfast in general. KLM starting BHD is very exciting! I'd love a LH or AF link as well. BFS is the holiday airport at the end of the day, and with DUB having a much bigger network and being so close, BFS is going to struggle. It doesn't help that it's a dive as well.

I remember a while back on one of these threads about Etihad being rumoured to start BFS with a weekly flight. I'd love it if that came true.

OA260 · Sat May 16, 2015 8:30 am

Quoting Wingtip1005 (Reply 75):
KLM starting BHD is very exciting!

It certainly is. BHD is a great airport to fly from. Also the rail link makes it very accessible. I never wait for more than a few mins for the shuttle from the station either to the Terminal building.

---

IAG makes seven-year pledge on Aer Lingus' Heathrow slots

IAG is understood to have told the Government that it will use prized Aer Lingus slots at Heathrow to serve only routes to Ireland for at least seven years if it succeeds in buying the Irish airline.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...ingus-heathrow-slots-31226631.html

BestWestern · Sat May 16, 2015 9:00 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 76):
IAG is understood to have told the Government that it will use prized Aer Lingus slots at Heathrow to serve only routes to Ireland for at least seven years if it succeeds in buying the Irish airline.

How many months is this going on?

ClassicLover · Sat May 16, 2015 10:19 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 77):
How many months is this going on?

Around 6 months now - the first bid was made in December if I recall correctly.

Cipango · Sat May 16, 2015 11:19 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 79):
IAG makes seven-year pledge on Aer Lingus' Heathrow slots

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...ingus-heathrow-slots-31226631.html

Quoting OA260 (Reply 76):
IAG makes seven-year pledge on Aer Lingus' Heathrow slots

IAG is understood to have told the Government that it will use prized Aer Lingus slots at Heathrow to serve only routes to Ireland for at least seven years if it succeeds in buying the Irish airline.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...ingus-heathrow-slots-31226631.html

Mentioned just 3 posts above.

Miami · Sun May 17, 2015 1:01 am

Quoting Cipango (Reply 79):

Sigh. I see. For some reason my entire page was glitched. I apologize for that.

Mods please delete.

AmricanShamrok · Sun May 17, 2015 7:55 pm

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang is on a two-day visit to the west of Ireland. He flew into SNN this morning on a chartered Air China 747.

This is the second high profile Chinese visit in three years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=14&v=UtyPcnu7PfI

shamrock137 · Sun May 17, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 61):
Did EI commission a safety video for the 757s or are the demos still performed manually by crew?

Its a manual demo. However they finally updated the demo for the A330. Its a live video instead of the animated one.

BrianDromey · Sun May 17, 2015 10:11 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 76):
IAG is understood to have told the Government that it will use prized Aer Lingus slots at Heathrow to serve only routes to Ireland for at least seven years if it succeeds in buying the Irish airline.

It could be a good compromise. Im not sure anyone could enforce any "guarantees", in any case I can't see why IAG would want not to serve Ireland-LHR, its a key market for them.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 72):
I am not really prepared to drive for 3 hours for a 2 hour flight so there is a limit to "shopping around" which for ME is BHD, LDY and BFS.

Thats fair enough. A connection also adds a lot of time, at least 2 hours, more than likely more, assuming you are comparing the same airport at the destination end. I do agree with you that the prospect of getting off a long haul, overnight flight to face a 2-3 hour drive isn't appealing.

frostyj · Sun May 17, 2015 10:58 pm

Which is why we booked a hotel.

BestWestern · Sun May 17, 2015 11:19 pm

Why didn't you fly JFK DUB LDY?

EIDL · Mon May 18, 2015 7:06 am

There hasn't been DUB LDY flights for years

OA260 · Mon May 18, 2015 7:23 am

Flew out of BHD yesterday and got to see the new Vueling flight take off. Great to see another tail at BHD.

.

.

Also the check in desks ready for the KLM inaugural today.

.

Wishing both carriers good luck with the new routes.

richcandy · Mon May 18, 2015 7:59 am

KLM were for a long time BFS only overseas scheduled carrier. They stuck with the BFS -AMS route through the bad old days. It would be great to see them making a success of this route. Wish them luck!

Alex

BrianDromey · Mon May 18, 2015 8:23 am

I do really like the Vueling colours. The grey and yellow look both bright and professional at the same time. Clearly the Spanish are better with yellow than the Irish.....

I didn't think Vueling had any IAE powered aircraft, both clickair and Vueling were CFM operators. After searching it appears they are taking both CFM and IAE powered aircraft. The larger IAG group, of course, operates large numbers of both CFM (Iberia A32x and A343) and IAE (BA A32x) engines, so I suppose it makes no difference. Interestingly though BA have taken a pair of A320s which were destined for EI, which were part built in 2001 and 10 A320s which were destined for IB. All of these are IAE powered models in service. Is Airbus relatively flexible if customers wish to change engine types, even when the aircraft is in assembly? Presumably there is a point at which the engine choice cannot be changed?

Quoting richcandy (Reply 88):
KLM were for a long time BFS only overseas scheduled carrier. They stuck with the BFS -AMS route through the bad old days. It would be great to see them making a success of this route. Wish them luck!

Hopefully KL will do well in Belfast. KL have a surprising UK network (a holdover from the AirUK days), their global network is impressive too. In the UK people are as likely to connect in AMS as LHR.

al2637 · Mon May 18, 2015 11:18 am

Looks like Schiphol could be getting pre-clearance!

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive...y-out-passport-checks-at-schiphol/

EIDL · Mon May 18, 2015 11:22 am

Quoting al2637 (Reply 90):
Looks like Schiphol could be getting pre-clearance!

Will require quite a bit of re-engineering as the current setup wouldn't allow it at all - if they want it enough it's possible but it'd be very expensive.

frostyj · Mon May 18, 2015 11:34 am

Quoting al2637 (Reply 90):

What a disaster that would be. I think Dublin has enough capacity nevermind their queues!!

al2637 · Mon May 18, 2015 11:37 am

Yea, there's a lot of work currently ongoing. I think they have lots of options tho. They could probably dedicate one or part of an existing pier to US departures. Something like they've done for UK/Ireland departures (a dedicated area within the schengen departure area)

Anyway, this is the Irish thread Smile

But it gives Dublin some competition for the transatlantic pre-clearance market, particularly from UK regions.

[Edited 2015-05-18 04:41:04]

shamrock604 · Mon May 18, 2015 12:17 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 72):

Aye, the stench of progress can be a bit overwhelming for some.

BestWestern · Mon May 18, 2015 12:31 pm

Quoting EIDL (Reply 91):
Will require quite a bit of re-engineering as the current setup wouldn't allow it at all - if they want it enough it's possible but it'd be very expensive.

It will be fantastic and drive transit demand in Amsterdam but could also play havoc with the short MCT's

Customs pre clearance will also be fun with so many transit bags.

JAmie2k9 · Mon May 18, 2015 2:17 pm

What is the whole EU advise thing with the Netherlands, anyone any thoughts?

AmricanShamrok · Mon May 18, 2015 2:34 pm

I'd be interested to know who will foot the bill for this. If I remember right, EY/AUH went to the US looking for a preclearance station at AUH and the condition was they could have it, but they had to pay for 85% of the costs of building and running it. In this situation, it seems the US authorities have approached the Netherlands asking for it to be opened at AMS.

In this country, the State paid for the once-off structural developments to house the facilities at DUB and SNN but the US Dept. of Homeland Security pays the salaries of the agents, living expenses etc.

vv701 · Mon May 18, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 89):
Interestingly though BA have taken a pair of A320s which were destined for EI, which were part built in 2001 and 10 A320s which were destined for IB. All of these are IAE powered models in service. Is Airbus relatively flexible if customers wish to change engine types, even when the aircraft is in assembly? Presumably there is a point at which the engine choice cannot be changed?

The two 320s that were built by Airbus against the cancelled EI order were c/n 1665 that carried the test registration F-WWIG and c/n 1708 that was initially registered F-WWIV.

As at 07 January 2002 the completed 'IV was parked at TLS. It had white painted cowlings on its CFM engines, full EI tail livery and an unpainted fuselage. It and 'IG, first reported parked at TLS painted like 'IV on 26 January, were not reassigned to BA until June 2002. This was after BA had agreed to take delivery of the two aircraft if they were re-engined with the IAE V2500 power plant. BA took delivery of 'IG by then converted from a CFE engined 320 214 to an IAE V2500 engined 320 232 and reregistered G-EUUH on 26 October. The former 'IV was delivered after being reregistered G-EUUL on 20 December. So there was around 12 months from when these two aircraft were rolled off the final assembly line until they were delivered to BA.

So it seems pretty certain that Airbus offered to re-engine these two frames in order to persuade BA to take them as part of their outstanding order. What is not clear is whether BA got any additional discount for taking these unwanted frames off Airbus's hands..

IB had options on the ten A 320s. It turned those options into a firm order in June 2010. On the same day it was announced that when delivered the Spanish airline would sell the ten aircraft to BA. No mention was made at the time about the type. However since it was known from the date of the order that the aircraft were destined for BA's and not IB's operation I think it can be assumed that the order was for ten 320 232s and not 320 214s. Also note that the first of the ten aircraft was not delivered to IB until 13 June 2013. This was three years after it was known they would be sold on to BA.

AmricanShamrok · Mon May 18, 2015 8:23 pm

Another example of Stobart Air not knowing their a**e from their elbow at present - they're closing their Cardiff base after just 18 months. They operated flights under the CityJet brand with one based ATR 42:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-32788379

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