I thought I knew airline history pretty well, but just learned while
reading Robert Serling's excellent history of Western Airlines that,
in the famous Trans-Pacific Case of the 1960's, which dragged on
and on ad-nauseum, that Northeast, yes NE/NEA, applied for routes
in that case! He made the funny observation that they may as well
have applied for service to Mars via the moon. LOL.
This blew my mind.
Does anyone know what routes they applied for?
They were barely able to make MIA-LAX work, even once they got
the Convairs, so it makes me wonder what their execs were smoking
that made them think they could apply for and get even routes to
Hawaii!!!
Anyone know details?
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
...bump...nobody has any info on this?
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
Almost everyone applied for everything in those days. NE also applied for trans-Atlantic but was passed over. NE was really on the CAB's sh*t list for some reason, they were awarded Florida service on a temporary basis and came close to losing that authority when it was up for renewal. Poor NE was classified as a trunk but for a long time had a route network that today's regional carriers could never make work.
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
Oh wow...I didn't know about trans-Atlantic either...were they NUTS?
As I recall, it was the MIA-LAX route which really was the last nail in their coffin.
But I don't even think their NE to Fla. routes were profitable. Almost makes one
wonder if the CAB awarded them the MIA-LAX intentionally figuring it would ruin
them if, as you say, NE was on the CAB's sh*t list for some reason.
And yeah, why they were EVER classified as trunk is beyond me.
As I recall, it was the MIA-LAX route which really was the last nail in their coffin.
But I don't even think their NE to Fla. routes were profitable. Almost makes one
wonder if the CAB awarded them the MIA-LAX intentionally figuring it would ruin
them if, as you say, NE was on the CAB's sh*t list for some reason.
And yeah, why they were EVER classified as trunk is beyond me.
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
| Quoting cathay747 (Thread starter): They were barely able to make MIA-LAX work, even once they got the Convairs, |
I'm not aware that NE ever flew their 880s LAX-MIA. I thought they were long gone by the time they got to LAX. I believe they flew 727-100s on the route.
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- sparky35805
- Posts: 218
- Joined:
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
The CAB didnt like the fact that NE was owned by a railroad until Storer bought them in the mid 60s.They only ran 727-100s MIA-LAX,a route award that made about as much sense as NA's ATL-SFO.NE had L1011's on order at the time of the merger.
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
Your sense of history remains (partially) intact 
I've referenced 3 sources: "Adventures Of A Yellowbird", "A Pictorial History Of Northeast Airlines 1933-1972", and (in particular) "Civil Aeronautics Board Reports, Vol 51", which summarized the various applicants for the Transpacific Route case. No mention of transpacific route application filing by NE.
Mr. Serling (R.I.P.), though a fabulously invaluable chronicler of aviation history, may have taken a bit of 'artistic license'. Or, considering the number of applicants, merely made a mistake.
With regard to MIA-LAX, that route was inaugurated in October 1969, some time after retirement of CV-880s.
I've referenced 3 sources: "Adventures Of A Yellowbird", "A Pictorial History Of Northeast Airlines 1933-1972", and (in particular) "Civil Aeronautics Board Reports, Vol 51", which summarized the various applicants for the Transpacific Route case. No mention of transpacific route application filing by NE.
Mr. Serling (R.I.P.), though a fabulously invaluable chronicler of aviation history, may have taken a bit of 'artistic license'. Or, considering the number of applicants, merely made a mistake.
With regard to MIA-LAX, that route was inaugurated in October 1969, some time after retirement of CV-880s.
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- maxpower1954
- Posts: 1067
- Joined:
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
Also no mention of this in the three part Northeast article by David Stringer in "Airways" magazine a few years ago, which was very detailed. One thing I learned was Northeast operated a IDL-MIA turn utilizing a TWA 707 that otherwise sat at IDL between European flights. This was similar to the National/Pan Am arrangement a few years before. Both the NAL/NEA operations used their own flight crews.
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
| Quoting aaway (Reply 6): Your sense of history remains (partially) intact I've referenced 3 sources: "Adventures Of A Yellowbird", "A Pictorial History Of Northeast Airlines 1933-1972", and (in particular) "Civil Aeronautics Board Reports, Vol 51", which summarized the various applicants for the Transpacific Route case. No mention of transpacific route application filing by NE. Mr. Serling (R.I.P.), though a fabulously invaluable chronicler of aviation history, may have taken a bit of 'artistic license'. Or, considering the number of applicants, merely made a mistake. With regard to MIA-LAX, that route was inaugurated in October 1969, some time after retirement of CV-880s. |
Thanks for this. Maybe he did make an error...nobody's perfect, although he usually came close.
Didn't NE op their CV990's on the LAX route?
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
| Quoting cathay747 (Reply 8): Didn't NE op their CV990's on the LAX route? |
| Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4): I'm not aware that NE ever flew their 880s LAX-MIA. I thought they were long gone by the time they got to LAX. I believe they flew 727-100s on the route. |
The 880s and the sole 990 were all gone by early 1968, so never figured in any NE transcons.
The MIA-LAX route came along in ~1970/71 and was flown with 727-095s, as BoeingGuy pointed out. This was a real challenge, as the 727 could barely make it and was payload restricted (center seats in Y blocked off). Part of the merger deal with DL was a clause that said the MIA-LAX route would not be transferred to DL.
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
| Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 9): The MIA-LAX route came along in ~1970/71 and was flown with 727-095s, as BoeingGuy pointed out. This was a real challenge, as the 727 could barely make it and was payload restricted (center seats in Y blocked off). Part of the merger deal with DL was a clause that said the MIA-LAX route would not be transferred to DL. |
Wow...I knew the 727's were an issue, didn't know they blocked the middle Y seats!
No wonder it must have been unprofitable!!
Also didn't know that the 880's/990's never op'd the LAX route.
Thanks for the info.
RE: Northeast Airlines (NE) Trans-Pac Route Apps
| Quoting cathay747 (Reply 12): Oh yeah, I'm sure that happened a LOT...a 721 just wasn't designed for trans-cons! |
After the merger, DL used to run the -095s ATL-SAN nonstop. That was also pushing it, and I wonder how often they had to stop enroute. This went on until the Advanced -232s were available in the late 70s.
Had the MIA-LAX route been transferred to DL, they would have had -8s which could have done it easily. This whole NE affair smacks of making sure that NA did not have much competition. It was just a token gesture, really, since IIRC, NE's westbound was a red eye, returning to MIA the following morning.
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