CRJ900 -24x Firm Order Unnamed Customer

jalarner · Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:02 pm

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media-c...sfirmorderfor2.bombardiercom.html?

Dec 30th 2014 - Bombardier got a firm order for 24 CRJ900 Next Gen jets from an unnamed airline.

Any thoughts on who it could be from?

I was expecting a big Q400 order from what a friend of mine hinted to, but I guess that will have to wait.

Jamie

smbukas · Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:15 pm

My guess would be SAS, but they are very public in their decisions, so I don't believe SAS wants to be called "unidentified customer".

32andBelow · Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:16 pm

Doesn't China usually play the unnamed customer card?

Boeing778X · Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:19 pm

What about for Republic? Would they order CRJ-900NGs for Q400 replacements?

dc10lover · Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:31 pm

Since it's not China Express Airlines then maybe another Asian Carrier?

PM · Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:33 pm

Gawd, who on earth would want to buy / fly / sell seats on any CRJ? The least comfortable flights I've ever had on any type!

Oh. Happy New Year!

AV8AJET · Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:54 pm

EV (ASA)? Delta Connection?

9lflyguy · Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:29 pm

Maybe ZW. They are privately held and do a pretty good job at keeping things hush hush. Maybe it for new flyingwith DL since the -200 contract fell through.

Prost · Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:34 pm

DL has some more 76 seater that they can bring on property with the addition of the 717s, don't they?

Viscount724 · Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 5):
Gawd, who on earth would want to buy / fly / sell seats on any CRJ? The least comfortable flights I've ever had on any type!

I've always liked the -700 and -900. They're much better than the early models. How comfortable they are depends on the airline, not the aircraft. AC's (Jazz) CRJ-900s (certified as CRJ-705 with fewer seats) are very nice with the best Y class seat pitch (34 inches) of the entire AC fleet and the same IFE system and PTVs as the mainline AC fleet.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/crj705.html

dtwpilot225 · Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:43 pm

Delta for endeavor would be my best guess, they are just wrapping up their initial order of 40

DiamondFlyer · Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:05 pm

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 10):
Delta for endeavor would be my best guess, they are just wrapping up their initial order of 40

The only way the Endeavor fleet is going to go is down, they simply will be the next airline to be Comair'd. They can't attract pilots to the place.

-DiamondFlyer

CRJ 900 · Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:02 am

Well we're retiring the CRJ so I'm hoping it's us (jazz).

Noise · Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting crj 900 (Reply 12):
Well we're retiring the CRJ so I'm hoping it's us (jazz).

Since when is Air Canada Jazz retiring the CRJ-200?

CRJ 900 · Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:11 am

WE have been slowly phasing them out for a while now. I am SURPRISED that AC has offered 5 of them to Air Georgian(-100s). In fact some of the -200s were the first to be phased out..mainly the ex independence air birds....

[Edited 2014-12-30 17:15:06]

dtwpilot225 · Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:56 am

Quoting crj 900 (Reply 12):

Quoting crj 900 (Reply 12):

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 10):
Delta for endeavor would be my best guess, they are just wrapping up their initial order of 40

The only way the Endeavor fleet is going to go is down, they simply will be the next airline to be Comair'd. They can't attract pilots to the place.

-DiamondFlyer

There is no way endeavor is getting comaired. Delta just invested 38 more million dollars into endeavor in retention bonuses which has caused pilot attrition to slow way down. All of their pilots get interviews at delta in the future now as well. Delta needed endeavor to shrink because they needed to get rid of all the 200s. They are now hiring pilots and people are coming to fill the first couple classes

Oykie · Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:30 pm

Quoting smbukas (Reply 1):
My guess would be SAS, but they are very public in their decisions, so I don't believe SAS wants to be called "unidentified customer".

SAS will transfer all their 12 CRJ-900 to Cimber Air. If anything it would be the newly accuired Cimber, but I doubt they would buy that many

Anyway. This order is good news for Bombardier! Congratulation to them and the airlines that will get them.

strfyr51 · Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:35 pm

that CRJ would make a fine Freighter.

bjorn14 · Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:51 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 3):
What about for Republic? Would they order CRJ-900NGs for Q400 replacements?

Since RP is in the CPA business the majors' scope clause precludes them from flying them.

flight152 · Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:17 pm

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 15):
Delta needed endeavor to shrink because they needed to get rid of all the 200s.

Delta is in process of finding another carrier to operate those 200's (previously Air Wisconsin that fell though) because Endeavor can't staff them.

PM · Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:23 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
How comfortable they are depends on the airline, not the aircraft. AC's (Jazz) CRJ-900s (certified as CRJ-705 with fewer seats) are very nice with the best Y class seat pitch (34 inches)

The problem isn't the pitch but the width and the headroom.

FRNT787 · Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:24 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 3):

They have 50 E175 on the way for that.

JetBuddy · Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:31 pm

Quoting smbukas (Reply 1):

My guess would be SAS, but they are very public in their decisions, so I don't believe SAS wants to be called "unidentified customer".

Quoting oykie (Reply 16):

SAS will transfer all their 12 CRJ-900 to Cimber Air. If anything it would be the newly accuired Cimber, but I doubt they would buy that many

I was thinking SAS/Cimber as well. But 24 aircraft sounds a bit much.

MCOflyer · Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:10 am

Is the 24 order firm or could that include options????

KH

icarus75 · Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:24 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 5):
Gawd, who on earth would want to buy / fly / sell seats on any CRJ? The least comfortable flights I've ever had on any type!

I disagree with you on this one!

I've recently flown ORY-PGF-ORY (1h20mn flights) on a CRJ1000 NextGen and this A/C is very confortable, quiet and silent!!!

turbineseaplane · Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 20):

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
How comfortable they are depends on the airline, not the aircraft. AC's (Jazz) CRJ-900s (certified as CRJ-705 with fewer seats) are very nice with the best Y class seat pitch (34 inches)

The problem isn't the pitch but the width and the headroom.

Totally agree.
I frickin' hate flying on CRJ's.
Been awful every time.

justplanenutz · Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:11 pm

Surprised no one has suggested AAG. PSA is will take the last of their 30 frames this year, so it would be about time to exercise options if they want to keep them coming (I know, Envoy CR7s are coming too).

jalarner · Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:34 pm

What about KLM F70 replacement? I know Wikipedia isn't the most reliable, but it shows a fleet of 19 to be phased out 2016 - 2018. Just an idea....

smbukas · Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:00 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 22):
I was thinking SAS/Cimber as well. But 24 aircraft sounds a bit much.

This can be not too much, because, I think, SAS/Cimber can use this as turboprop replacement and 737-600 replacement.

For me it makes sense:
- Norwegian opening more and more domestic or intra-Scandinavian routes where SAS competes with turboprops. CRJ900 could match jet experience for passenger and keep higher frequency benefit;
- CRJ900 can almost reach the same seat cost as 737-600, especially on very short routes, so this can be possibly a replacement.

bunumuring · Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:59 pm

Quoting turbineseaplane (Reply 25):
I frickin' hate flying on CRJ's.
Been awful every time.

Hi mate,
I totally agree.
The CRJ is the only type of jet I have flown in that despised: in fact, the only other plane i have been as uncomfortable in was the Britten-Norman Islander, but at least that plane had amazing windows to look out of....
Could it be that this mystery order is for another Chinese airline, like the previous 'unnamed ' order for 16 frames a few months ago? Maybe it is the same airline even? It is after all, the same chain of events: announce the firm order for an 'unnamed' airline...then publicly reveal the airline at a later date.
Or, the conspiracy theory part of me wonders if this order could be 'compensation' for a CSeries customer... For late delivery or whatever? Unlikely, but you never know...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

DeltaB717 · Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:13 pm

QantasLink - long-rumoured 717 replacement!?

redzeppelin · Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:26 pm

Quoting jalarner (Reply 27):
What about KLM F70 replacement?

Given their E-190 fleet, KL seems unlikely. I would expect them to stay with Embraer.

planemaker · Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:13 am

It will be interesting to find out the details of the firm order. Of course, the timing is perfect... one day before the end of BBD's fiscal year-end a +$1 billion order is booked.

XFSUgimpLB41X · Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:07 am

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 15):
There is no way endeavor is getting comaired. Delta just invested 38 more million dollars into endeavor in retention bonuses which has caused pilot attrition to slow way down. All of their pilots get interviews at delta in the future now as well. Delta needed endeavor to shrink because they needed to get rid of all the 200s. They are now hiring pilots and people are coming to fill the first couple classes

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 10):
Delta for endeavor would be my best guess, they are just wrapping up their initial order of 40

You're setting yourself up for disappointment. Publicly owned US operators (e.g. Delta) don't do undisclosed orders.

These things will show up somewhere overseas.

PM · Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:29 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 29):
the only other plane i have been as uncomfortable in was the Britten-Norman Islander

All my Islander flights have been without seats or a door - and for all the take-offs I enjoyed, I never landed in one.

It's not a bad plane if you have to sit on the floor.

bunumuring · Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:46 pm

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 30):
QantasLink - long-rumoured 717 replacement!?

No no no! Please no!
I really don't think QantasLink is the customer... And I certainly hope not as the 717 is far far superior in my opinion...
The CSeries is my bet for an eventual QF Link 717 replacement, but not for many many years.
I think the mystery order is Chinese but... Could it be for a Burmese operator? 24 does seem to be a lot however for any airline in that country at this time...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

[Edited 2015-01-03 04:50:44]

CRJ900 · Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:38 pm

On Feb 12, 2014 Bombardier announced a Letter of Intent for 12 CRJ900 from a "Middle East and Africa-based customer" and then nothing more. Could it be this customer which has been on a bigger shopping spree?

The latest news release says that 384 CRJ900 have now been ordered, that's not too shabby for an aircraft many complain about. If one include the 16 AC Jazz CRJ705, the order book reads 400 -900 frames.
I hope Delta and American turn their combined 70 options into firm orders soon too, that should keep the production line busy a few more years.

YVRLTN · Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:49 am

How about SA Airlink? J41's being retired, smaller RJ's shifting to fill the gap, which in turn need replacing.

Could also be more for Air Nostrum as the 200's retire..

DeltaMD95 · Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:55 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 35):
Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 30):
QantasLink - long-rumoured 717 replacement!?

No no no! Please no!
I really don't think QantasLink is the customer... And I certainly hope not as the 717 is far far superior in my opinion...
The CSeries is my bet for an eventual QF Link 717 replacement, but not for many many years.

That is an interesting theory. I believe I read that the QantasLink 717s were leased and would be up for renewal by 2018. Please correct me if this is wrong.

If the leases expire in 2018, would an order need to be placed 3 yrs in advance? How long the is backlog for at BBD?

Lastly, for 24 CR9s to replace 18 717s, it would need to be true that QF are looking to add frequencies. Is there any indication of such?

silentbob · Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:39 pm

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 26):
Surprised no one has suggested AAG. PSA is will take the last of their 30 frames this year, so it would be about time to exercise options if they want to keep them coming (I know, Envoy CR7s are coming too).

They can't staff the existing deliveries and they will exceed the scope limitations if all the options are exercised on the 175s. More 900s would only make that issue worse.

justplanenutz · Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:59 pm

I can't speak to PSA staffing, but scope shouldn't be an issue. In 2016, large RJs are capped at 40% of mainline fleet, which is 389 frames based on current mainline. All of the currently operating or ordered large RJs (excluding the CR7 and E170, which are likely to get reconfigured to 65 seats if scope comes into play) are only 226. So, AA should be able to take all of the current options (40 CR9 and 90 E175) and still have room for 40-50 more.

DeltaB717 · Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:26 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 35):
No no no! Please no!
I really don't think QantasLink is the customer...

Mate I completely agree, just putting it out there!?

Quoting DeltaMD95 (Reply 38):
If the leases expire in 2018, would an order need to be placed 3 yrs in advance? How long the is backlog for at BBD?

Lastly, for 24 CR9s to replace 18 717s, it would need to be true that QF are looking to add frequencies. Is there any indication of such?

If it was QF, and I don't really believe it is (but not beyond the realm of possibility), it's possible they see potential for new regional routes for which smaller jets would be better, and there're also not many 717 routes where CR9s couldn't take over. PER-ASP-DRW vv is one of a handful I can think of where a CR9 wouldn't be appropriate.

bunumuring · Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:52 pm

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 41):

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 35):
No no no! Please no!
I really don't think QantasLink is the customer...

Mate I completely agree, just putting it out there?

Hi mate,
Yes, I agree that it COULD be QFLink but I highly highly doubt it. I agree about the suitability of the CRJ but I think 24 is too many to be ordered unless there are some significant expansion plans being formulated. I really dislike flying n the CRJ due to passenger discomfort (I'm 6 foot tall and it hurts to sit in a window seat on one of them).
Wonder when BBD and the airline will reveal the customer...
Chinese or Burmese airlines are still my number one suspects...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

lightsaber · Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:16 am

Very interesting. I had thought the CRJ sales were basically done. The line is limping along and this order shall give them time to pursue further orders. Kudos to Bombardier.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):

I've always liked the -700 and -900.

I really like UA's configuration for the -700. Well... Y+.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 32):
It will be interesting to find out the details of the firm order. Of course, the timing is perfect... one day before the end of BBD's fiscal year-end a +$1 billion order is booked.

That it is... Now if only the C-series would sell a few more. But this gives Bombardier funds.

Lightsaber

northwestEWR · Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:28 am

I too would be very surprised if it was QF but you never know... With DL taking 717s as fast as they can and about a year into service, they may make Qantas a deal too good to pass up.

TrijetsRMissed · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:31 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 30):
QantasLink - long-rumoured 717 replacement!?

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 44):
I too would be very surprised if it was QF but you never know... With DL taking 717s as fast as they can and about a year into service, they may make Qantas a deal too good to pass up.

If this were to be the case, look for the QF 717s to be a hot commodity for current operators once they hit the open market. The fleet has reportedly been well maintained and relatively softly used.

Even more, the seven ex-YX frames in particular would be a prime pickup for DL - as these 717s have only 6-8 years of actual service history - with multiple years of hiatus and inactivity during their tenures.

dc10lover · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:41 pm

Maybe F9 Frontier Airlines?

northwestEWR · Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:49 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 45):

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 30):
QantasLink - long-rumoured 717 replacement!?
Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 44):
I too would be very surprised if it was QF but you never know... With DL taking 717s as fast as they can and about a year into service, they may make Qantas a deal too good to pass up.

If this were to be the case, look for the QF 717s to be a hot commodity for current operators once they hit the open market. The fleet has reportedly been well maintained and relatively softly used.

Even more, the seven ex-YX frames in particular would be a prime pickup for DL - as these 717s have only 6-8 years of actual service history - with multiple years of hiatus and inactivity during their tenures.

Other than HA taking a couple of frames, who else would be interested? Blue1 is reportedly looking to sell theirs as well. Turkmenistan has at least one parked last I heard and Volotea... Not sure.

DiamondFlyer · Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:17 am

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 46):
Maybe F9 Frontier Airlines?

Frontier wouldn't operate them, they'd farm them out to a regional provider.

-DiamondFlyer

Thenoflyzone · Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:53 pm

Quoting jalarner (Thread starter):
Any thoughts on who it could be from?

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 22):
I was thinking SAS/Cimber as well

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 30):
QantasLink - long-rumoured 717 replacement!?

Quoting jalarner (Reply 27):
What about KLM F70 replacement? I

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 37):
How about SA Airlink?

It's a North American carrier.

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):
Doesn't China usually play the unnamed customer card?

Not on this occasion.

Quoting av8ajet (Reply 6):
EV (ASA)? Delta Connection?

No..

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 47):
Other than HA taking a couple of frames

no...

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 46):
Maybe F9 Frontier Airlines?

no....

ok that's enough hints for now...

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