Current schedule at BDL (10 flights):
• FLL- 2x daily (1 A320/1 E190)
• MCO- 2x daily (A320)
• TPA- 1x daily (E190)
• RSW- 1x daily (A320) *seasonal
• SJU- 1x daily (A320) *2x daily seasonally
• DCA- 2x daily (E190)
• PBI- 1x daily (E190)
Current schedule at PVD (3 flights):
• FLL- 1x daily (A320)
• MCO- 2x daily (A320)
What is the growth potential at these two airports? I'm not sure what other routes that B6 would serve out of BDL. But I'd like to see them increase frequencies to current routes like BDL-TPA/RSW/PBI to better compete with WN. With PVD, I can see them replicating the BDL growth with routes like PVD-TPA/RSW/PBI and maybe SJU. Or is PVD, like ORH, too close to BOS to see any real growth from BOS.
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
A 2nd PVD-FLL would seem a logical addition to help feed the amount of connecting traffic at FLL as B6 grows that operation.
Twice daily PVD-DCA would also seem to fit the strategy there but is obviously contingent on slots. Perhaps shifting some of the BOS flights is an option or if some of the other DCA flights aren't meeting expectations? Just a thought there.
A Saturday only PVD-SJU flight would do well since there is a large ethnic tie there plus cruise ship traffic and a connection or two.
Daily service to TPA, RSW, and PBI at least seasonally in RSW and PBI's case isn't a stretch either.
Long term and in the wish list category would be PVD-LAX. Could be done as a red-eye for better aircraft utilization but this is a long shot for sure.
PVD -JFK would be great to gain access to the network there but also seems fairly unlikely at this point in time.
I could see B6 doing LAX at BDL since they seem to have built a successful loyalty with strong service to Florida, SJU, and now DCA.
Twice daily PVD-DCA would also seem to fit the strategy there but is obviously contingent on slots. Perhaps shifting some of the BOS flights is an option or if some of the other DCA flights aren't meeting expectations? Just a thought there.
A Saturday only PVD-SJU flight would do well since there is a large ethnic tie there plus cruise ship traffic and a connection or two.
Daily service to TPA, RSW, and PBI at least seasonally in RSW and PBI's case isn't a stretch either.
Long term and in the wish list category would be PVD-LAX. Could be done as a red-eye for better aircraft utilization but this is a long shot for sure.
PVD -JFK would be great to gain access to the network there but also seems fairly unlikely at this point in time.
I could see B6 doing LAX at BDL since they seem to have built a successful loyalty with strong service to Florida, SJU, and now DCA.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
Completely agree on that one, and I think we'd see BDL-LAX on B6 first before PVD-LAX. PVD's runway is too short for an LAX haul with an A320, which would be pretty heavy going west.
[Edited 2014-11-01 19:56:32]
[Edited 2014-11-01 19:57:39]
[Edited 2014-11-01 19:56:32]
[Edited 2014-11-01 19:57:39]
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter): |
TPA and PBI will be going back to A320's in December I believe, and in June 2015 BDL-DCA upgages to an A320.
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- CairnterriAIR
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RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
The B6 PBI flight is an A320 as of November. I'm booked on it the 17th and that is the aircraft operating. As for growth out of BDL, I could see the MCO and SJU flights upgraded to A321s, and perhaps a flight to Nassau. Doubtful on LAX as AA operates that route seasonally.
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- cessna53996
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RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting pvd757 (Reply 1): |
| Quoting SCHATC422 (Reply 3): |
| Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 4): |
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- jetbluefan1
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RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter): But I'd like to see them increase frequencies to current routes like BDL-TPA/RSW/PBI to better compete with WN. |
What type of capacity does WN have on these routes? Interesting that this is one of WN's few strongholds in New England, but B6 has rapidly become the largest (or second largest) carrier in NE.
| Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter): With PVD, I can see them replicating the BDL growth with routes like PVD-TPA/RSW/PBI and maybe SJU |
Maybe in the long run, but B6 hasn't shown much love to PVD. The current schedule is the same as when service was launched in Nov 2012.
| Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter): Or is PVD, like ORH, too close to BOS to see any real growth from BOS. |
This might be the case, given the lack of growth. PVD and BOS are about 60 miles from each other, and Providence isn't exactly a huge metropolis.
| Quoting pvd757 (Reply 1): I could see B6 doing LAX at BDL since they seem to have built a successful loyalty with strong service to Florida, SJU, and now DCA |
I'm wary this will work for B6, given that AA and DL have both tried and both quit. Hartford's population has leveled off and its economy isn't growing. There isn't much of a business case to make for LAX-BDL at this time, IMO, when the same population can be served from EWR/JFK/BOS.
| Quoting SCHATC422 (Reply 3): in June 2015 BDL-DCA upgages to an A320. |
Now this is surprising. Loads on this route have been nauseatingly low (50-60%) and fares are even more miserable. Not sure what B6 was thinking on this upgauge - although, this might be one which requires a long spool-up and eventually does well.
| Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 4): As for growth out of BDL, I could see the MCO and SJU flights upgraded to A321s |
I don't see B6 using its precious A321's out of BDL. As mentioned by cessna53996 above, those birds are flying out of JFK and wherever Mint is expanded. I can also see them at EWR and LGA (if they can fit in the CBT).
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
I'd like to see B6 add BDL-LAS
America West used to serve this route, WN served it Saturdays only for a while, but I don't see it on their schedule at all now.
America West used to serve this route, WN served it Saturdays only for a while, but I don't see it on their schedule at all now.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
I have a feeling that the opening of ORH has been the reason for no growth at PVD since the launch of service more than anything else. 2015 brings additional aircraft to do additional things, so lets hope PVD can get a little something.
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- CairnterriAIR
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RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
WN serves LAS on a daily basis, though the flight does run seasonally.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting cessna53996 (Reply 5): |
I have a friend who is a gate agent for B6 at BDL and about 2 weeks ago he said DCA is doing very well from BDL, just not on the weekends. He said the loads are upper 80's-low 90's depending on the day and the weekends are down in the 50-60% range at best.
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- runningonempty
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RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting SCHATC422 (Reply 10): |
Loads don't say it all... While it's excellent they can fill the plane, their yields are all but fine, their RASM is a travesty. Starting fares at 50 bucks one way is not a great way to make money for a LCC. I can't see this route lasting unless they get less price matching from US or they both just gouge the price.
BDL in general just isn't a "fun" airport for the legacies, LCCs and ULCCs. It's in the middle. It acts in the same way a SJC is to SFO and ONT is to LAX airport works. Not too close to other airports, but the airports that aren't far away offer more nonstop and usually for less. Don't expect a ULCC here. If anything, maybe see F9 if anything
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- MesaFlyGuy
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RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 11): Starting fares at 50 bucks one way is not a great way to make money for a LCC |
It's still a brand new route that needs time to mature. Like was said before:
| Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 6): this might be one which requires a long spool-up and eventually does well |
Which I agree with. I think this route, once more and more people actually see that JetBlue flies to DC from BDL, will do fine.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 6): This might be the case, given the lack of growth. PVD and BOS are about 60 miles from each other, and Providence isn't exactly a huge metropolis. |
Only the # 2 catchment area in all of New England....
| Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 6): Maybe in the long run, but B6 hasn't shown much love to PVD. |
ORH + DCA and LGA slots took a lot of airplanes from other growth opportunities
The PVD average fares have been trending upward notably since launch.
Yes B6 grew significantly at BDL, but dont forget, B6 pretty much simply replaced what DL was offering previously. at PVD, B6 had to carve their way into the market themselves on routes that never had a second airline. Now that they are entrenched, with growing fares and planes coming in, I think we will see a slow and gradual growth.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 13): Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 6): This might be the case, given the lack of growth. PVD and BOS are about 60 miles from each other, and Providence isn't exactly a huge metropolis. Only the # 2 catchment area in all of New England.... |
#2 catchment area in New England doesn't mean much. There's a huge gap between #1 and #2, and #2 isn't particularly big when proximity to BOS is recognized.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
The PVD and BOS catchment area has very significant overlap.
I agree that PVD's load factors have been hurt by ORH short term. But IF they keep available ticket prices low (not just the lowest published fare) I think traffic will grow for both airports. However, I think they are making the same mistake everyone else does and assumes that people in the outer suburbs only fly to Florida. They need to find more routes so people even think about checking B6 prices when they purchase tickets.
The real strength for PVD is as an alternative to BOS. There is only so much room at BOS for B6, and being the dominant carrier they have a chance to bring ticket prices up, butt hat would mean loosing the low fare customers. By offering lower fares out of airports like PVD for the leisure travel heavy routes, they can have both.
I agree that PVD's load factors have been hurt by ORH short term. But IF they keep available ticket prices low (not just the lowest published fare) I think traffic will grow for both airports. However, I think they are making the same mistake everyone else does and assumes that people in the outer suburbs only fly to Florida. They need to find more routes so people even think about checking B6 prices when they purchase tickets.
The real strength for PVD is as an alternative to BOS. There is only so much room at BOS for B6, and being the dominant carrier they have a chance to bring ticket prices up, butt hat would mean loosing the low fare customers. By offering lower fares out of airports like PVD for the leisure travel heavy routes, they can have both.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 14): 2 isn't particularly big when proximity to BOS is recognized. |
| Quoting cloudboy (Reply 15): The PVD and BOS catchment area has very significant overlap. |
It is still a solid #2, larger than Hartford AND Springfield, even when you exclude ALL areas thar are closer to BOS than PVD.
So it may a very far cry from #1, but there's still plenty left over for plenty of growth opportunities.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting SCHATC422 (Reply 3): TPA and PBI will be going back to A320's in December I believe, and in June 2015 BDL-DCA upgages to an A320. |
That is correct. During the winter months TPA and PBI are both A320's. I noticed the BDL-DCA upgage, odd, but promising.
| Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 6): There isn't much of a business case to make for LAX-BDL at this time, IMO, when the same population can be served from EWR/JFK/BOS. |
I disagree. AA had no problem filling the planes; they just found higher profitability elsewhere. B6 could make it work, if they wanted.
| Quoting spinkid (Reply 7): I'd like to see B6 add BDL-LAS America West used to serve this route, WN served it Saturdays only for a while, but I don't see it on their schedule at all now. |
WN still serves this route every day. I believe it goes away for a couple of months in the winter, though.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
B6 put its foot in the door of Southern New England at PVD and has been completely static up until this point. I beleive the carrier like some others eschews offering anything too comprehensive at PVD to avoid diluting its operation to the North at BOS while often garnering a modest fare premium from Providence. Air and land traffic as well as exhausting competition there may change the landscape in the future as BOS saturates further. That large Southern slice of New England contains much population and commerce that doesn't need nor probably desire using Boston Logan given a reasonable alternative especially in Winter. I had been an advocate of next hooking up PVD with the entire Westbound JetBlue system via JFK but it appears the carrier is now cool to short segments into Kennedy like that. For now 2 MCO and one FLL may be just a place holder until B6 gets around to it, having been so busy introducing, changing routes across their system.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting lat41 (Reply 18): B6 put its foot in the door of Southern New England at PVD and has been completely static up until this point. |
Again, dont compare the lack of PVD growth to BDL, at BDL B6 replaced Delta, overall Florida capacity for BDL-Florida is flat, if not down slightly. for PVD B6 had to grow the market and complete against a larger competitor. for BDL the largest competetor simply gave the market to B6.
Loads and fares are on the rise which is healthy for B6 at PVD and will ultimately yield more opportunities.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 19): Again, dont compare the lack of PVD growth to BDL, at BDL B6 replaced Delta, overall Florida capacity for BDL-Florida is flat, if not down slightly. for PVD B6 had to grow the market and complete against a larger competitor. for BDL the largest competetor simply gave the market to B6. Loads and fares are on the rise which is healthy for B6 at PVD and will ultimately yield more opportunities. |
I would say the market is flat, perhaps a slight increase, to destinations such as PBI and RSW which Delta stopped serving before B6 entered the market. I would also argue that the B6 product is more preferred for the type of travelers flying from CT to Florida. I think DL made up some of the seats they lost by adding BDL - RDU, an additional BDL - ATL, etc.
RE: B6 Growth Potential At BDL & PVD
| Quoting tom11 (Reply 20): |
And as much as I'd love for this to happen and there's a decent possibility it could because of the large amount of Puerto Ricans/Dominicans/Hispanics in the Hartford and Springfield metro areas, having B6 start BDL-PUJ or BQN. And for DL making up seats they cut before B6 even entered BDL, having DL resume BDL-LAX and even on a seasonal or 5x week basis. That would be a big step for BDL if DL could resume LAX and even just on an A319/20 or even bring back a 738.
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