SLCSFOPDX
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Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:06 pm

This thread is dedicated to all things aviation in Utah. Airports with commercial service include SLC, PVU, VEL, CNY, SGU, OGD, and CDC.

Updates:


SLC:
DL is beginning a seasonal nonstop flight to AMS next May
F9 is beginning ORD and PHX service soon
B6 is starting MCO service in December
AA is beginning MIA service in March
The new terminal is under construction and is expected to be completed by 2022
From what I've heard, AS is trying to get more gates but the lack of gates is making this difficult.
Also, NK has been in recent airport meetings.

PVU:
The city of Provo is beginning to level the ground and area to potentially build a new terminal. No official announcement has been mad at this time though.
G4 has been very pleased with their service out of the airport and have called PVU, "a gold mine". They currently offer nonstop service to OAK, AZA, and LAX. Some refer to PVU as an alternate airport to SLC.

SGU:
the new SGU airport opened in 2011
nonstop service via DL and UA to SLC and DEN.
They are currently trying to lure a airlines into the market. From what I've heard, they are talking to G4, AA, and SY.

OGD:
Currently served by G4 with service to AZA. I will not be surprised to see this flight end sooner than later.

CDC, VEL, and CNY, only have a couple flights a day to SLC via OO.


Also worth noting, there is research going on right now to see if Park City could build an airport or convert the Heber City airport into a commercial airport.
 
Legend757
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:59 pm

SLC: DL resumes daily MEX in Dec as well. Will be interesting to see how DL responds to AA's MIA announcement. They guard their turf fiercly at SLC, i.e. resuming CLT as soon as US announced the route and adding a 3rd daily flight to MCO when B6 announced the route. It's nice to see the increased competition at SLC over the last year with new service from AA, AS, B6, DL and F9 announced. Would always like to see more of course. I see potential for new domestic entrants such as NK and HA as well as new international entrants such as BA, Y4 and AC. However, as has been mentioned in several topics, gate space is probably the biggest obstacle any potential new entrant faces at SLC. Exciting times nonetheless.

PVU: G4 definitely found a niche here. The problem I see with PVU building a new terminal structure is getting G4's support. They are an airline that saves cost any way they can. I'm sure they are happy with PVU just how it is. If new airlines began service at PVU, I could see a more justified need for an updated terminal structure.

I could see G4 adding 1 or 2 new destinations LAS or SFB, but SFB might be a long shot. As far as new entrants go, I can't say I'm convinced there is any solid potentials. But you never know, with the lack of gate space at SLC, maybe PVU will become more appealing in the next few years?

SGU: If they have indeed been in talks with G4 and SY, I feel the airport and city of St. George need to step up their game in the marketing department. St. George, although a great winter get away, just isn't THAT well known around the country. If they want to attract enough leisure passengers (the only ones you'll find on G4 and SY) to fill a couple 737s or MD-80s a week, then they need to make themselves more known. I wonder if G4 would even consider them with LAS being so close?

As for AA, I could see them possibly starting a PHX route, but I see AA being more interested in a DFW route because of the greater connection opportunities.

OGD: This is an interesting market. It's almost exactly the same distance from SLC as PVU is and has a similar population base. Yet, PVU's market has quite the advantage over OGD with two large universities in the area and impressive economic vitality. For me, I don't see much potential for added service except for maybe an additional G4 route to LAX or LAS. I do hope they can sustain what they have.

CDC, VEL and CNY: Loads for these cities are unimpressive to say the least, but if I am correct all three of these cities are flown at risk by OO?

As for a new Park City airport or the commercialization of Heber, is there really a significant need for it? I know updating Heber with ILS would be helpful especially during the busy winter season. Many corporate and private aircraft have to divert to SLC or PVU during inclement weather. Then again, I am all for preparing for the future, and if the need for a commercial airport in Park City is forseen in the next 10-20 years, now is the time to get started.

My two cents.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 1):
CDC, VEL and CNY: Loads for these cities are unimpressive to say the least, but if I am correct all three of these cities are flown at risk by OO?

These three cities are EAS cities. CDC sees CRJ2's and VEL and CNY get 120's. All three cities are hugely at overcapacity and really should be served with something like what CApe Air does in Montana. (typical US Governmental Waste)

[Edited 2014-10-08 15:27:18]
 
flyorski
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 2):
These three cities are EAS cities. CDC sees CRJ2's and VEL and CNY get 120's. All three cities are hugely at overcapacity and really should be served with something like what CApe Air does in Montana

They used to be Salmon Air did they not?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:33 pm

Quoting flyorski (Reply 3):
They used to be Salmon Air did they not?

Yes, it was Salmon Air for 2 years. Then Air Midwest.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:37 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter):
This thread is dedicated to all things aviation in Utah. Airports with commercial service include SLC, PVU, VEL, CNY, SGU, OGD, and CDC.

You missed Wendover Airport (which is in Utah) code is ENV. They get service on G4 through casino charters etc.
 
iowaman
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:45 pm

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 1):
As for a new Park City airport or the commercialization of Heber, is there really a significant need for it? I know updating Heber with ILS would be helpful especially during the busy winter season. Many corporate and private aircraft have to divert to SLC or PVU during inclement weather. Then again, I am all for preparing for the future, and if the need for a commercial airport in Park City is forseen in the next 10-20 years, now is the time to get started

Interesting idea. The runway would need to be wider as it is only 6900' x 75' and an ILS added. Also terrain could play an issue for engine out minimums on take off. A CR7 or Dash 8 would probably be the best equipment, similar to other mountainous airports like ASE and EGE. I can't imagine much demand even for those sized aircraft.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:52 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
I can't imagine much demand even for those sized aircraft.

NEIther can I, if that were to ever to be seriously placed on the table, Sierra Club and Robert Redford would stage environmental protests to no end.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 5):

ENV only gets one charter a week, on average. Correct? I know sometimes you'll see flights come in from EUG, CID, and FAR. I didn't include it because ENV does not get scheduled flights. Sometimes you'll see SY charter flights into ENV and SGU, as well.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:28 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 8):
ENV only gets one charter a week, on average. Correct?

You are correct. They do however service a pretty good sized fleet of fire tankers there from time to time. Saw a DC7 there the other day when I had to drive back from EKO cause OO cxled
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:51 am

I am an Aussie who has friends in Cedar City and visit them regularly.
Normally I fly into LAX with QF then Delta to Las Vegas then drive.

My question is does anybody go LAX or Las Vegas to Cedar City or perhaps there is another way?
Thanks

Ruscoe
 
Legend757
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:55 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 10):

Currently, the only airline servicing CDC is Skywest/Delta Connection to SLC. If I'm not mistaken, there was a time when CDC did have scheduled service to LAS. Depending on how long it takes you to fly to LAS from LAX and then drive to CDC, you might save time connecting through SLC.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:18 am

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 2):
These three cities are EAS cities. CDC sees CRJ2's and VEL and CNY get 120's. All three cities are hugely at overcapacity and really should be served with something like what CApe Air does in Montana. (typical US Governmental Waste)

CDC is an interesting case. Sure, the revenue loads aren't spectacular most of the time, but it's a good backup for commuters who need to get back down to SGU but cannot get on the flight(s).

Also, the community is staunchly behind OO for the service, as witnessed after the Air Midwest debacle.
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ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:00 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 12):
CDC is an interesting case. Sure, the revenue loads aren't spectacular most of the time, but it's a good backup for commuters who need to get back down to SGU but cannot get on the flight(s).

You mean non-rev OO employees who can't get to SLC or SGU on the SGU SLC flights?
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:24 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 13):
You mean

Correct. The nice thing is that there's usually someone on the CDC flight that can provide a carpool to SGU.
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ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:32 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 14):
Correct. The nice thing is that there's usually someone on the CDC flight that can provide a carpool to SGU.

I would suppose then that the Non Rev Load Factor would be well above the Paying Passenger Load Factor, essentially making this a Govt Subsidized NonRev Market. OO has quite a few people who live in CDC anyway.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:11 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 15):
I would suppose then that the Non Rev Load Factor would be well above the Paying Passenger Load Factor, essentially making this a Govt Subsidized NonRev Market.

It wouldn't quite go that far. It still serves a purpose to the community and surrounding area, including labeling itself as a gateway to Zion park and Bryce Canyon, as well as the multiple world-renowned literary and cultural festivals that happen at the university area. The fact that non-revs use it as an overflow to a neighboring market is missing the point.
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ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:30 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 16):

It wouldn't quite go that far. It still serves a purpose to the community and surrounding area, including labeling itself as a gateway to Zion park and Bryce Canyon, as well as the multiple world-renowned literary and cultural festivals that happen at the university area. The fact that non-revs use it as an overflow to a neighboring market is missing the point.

Glad this came up, I will get the records from the CDC airport for my reporting as well, to see the difference in revenue produced boardings vs non-rev boardings. Maybe draw it to EAS's attention.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:53 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 17):
Glad this came up, I will get the records from the CDC airport for my reporting as well, to see the difference in revenue produced boardings vs non-rev boardings. Maybe draw it to EAS's attention.

Well, if you want to be thorough to prove some sort of malicious intent, be sure to ask for the records from when Air Midwest had the route.
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maxamuus
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:06 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 17):
to see the difference in revenue produced boardings vs non-rev boardings

Do airports even track the number of Non-rev boardings? Seems like a useless statistic to a airport.
 
FLY2TUS
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:12 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter):
PVU:
The city of Provo is beginning to level the ground and area to potentially build a new terminal. No official announcement has been mad at this time though.

The only problem with the new terminal they're trying to build is that the funds aren't there and supposedly to get any more grant money, the airport would need to see more commercial service. Unfortunately, the current terminal can't handle more than 3 departures per day, and even that is pushing it. Since the current terminal shares the ramp with the only FBO on the field, things can get sketchy when there is a delay causing more than one flight on the ground at the same time. (This happened semi-often with Allegiant and their schedule). I'd like to see a terminal, even if it were temporary, constructed on the south side of the field to accommodate more than one aircraft at a time, then maybe things could get rolling on more on a real terminal.
Ready. Set. Jet.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:48 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 18):

Well, if you want to be thorough to prove some sort of malicious intent, be sure to ask for the records from when Air Midwest had the route.

NO malicious intent. Why should OO be subsidized to carry non revers around? It is outright governmental waste. Cape Air would be a far better suitor for this.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:55 pm

I remember when Air Midwest west flew to CDC there would be at time 1-3 people on the flights. Terrible.

The problem with PVU getting more service is that there is no airline that will probably serve them. I doubt NK would. They seem to be shifting their focus to large airports to offer low fares. F9 used to serve PVU, but like NK, they are mostly focusing on major airports in larger cities. I doubt VX would serve PVU. AS probably will not with their focus on SLC. So probably the only hope of PVU gaining more service is through G4, and I can only see them maybe serving LAS and SAN from PVU. Even still people may choose to drive to Vegas than fly, and SAN is only a seasonal destination from BLI.

As for potential airlines coming to SLC, I think FI or FE could potentially serve SLC. SLC seems like a destination those airlines would serve. Y4 is a possibility but I am sure DL would fight hard to keep GDL and MEX to themselves. SLC doesn't seem like a city VX would serve. NK is only a matter of time until they fly to SLC. SLC, along with SEA, are two of the biggest holes in their network. AC used to fly to SLC from YYZ but DL matched them on price and drove them out of SLC. HA I think is a possibility once they get some of their new planes in a few years. Other than that, I can't think of any other airline......
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:57 pm

excuse me, not FE, but DE
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 22):
I remember when Air Midwest west flew to CDC there would be at time 1-3 people on the flights. Terrible.

Based on aircraft size, there is not much difference today. Sometimes they board 8 on a CRJ200 with 2 of them being nonrevs. and this is not the exception to the rule.
 
FLY2TUS
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:02 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 22):

I definitely agree. That's the problem, PVU is too close to SLC to provide any kind of incentive for any other airline besides G4 to serve it. The only other place I could see them flying to would be LAS, maybe SFB if they got really brave. Unfortuneately, PVU is a niche market that mainly caters to the vacationers in Utah County. I'd love to see more air service in PVU, but as someone who worked at that FBO and handled G4's daily flights, it just won't happen any time soon.
Ready. Set. Jet.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:17 pm

I'd like to see G4 attempt PVU-HNL with the 752. Maybe twice weekly and seasonal. I think it could work for them--certainly no worse than some of their other HNL experiments.
 
Legend757
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:39 pm

Quoting FLY2TUS (Reply 25):
Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 22):

I think that once G4 receives more deliveries of the A319s and A320s, we might see more flights from SFB to the Western U.S.

What cities do you think NK would be interested in at SLC? Their bases and focus cities are FLL, DTW, DFW, IAH, ORD, LAS, ACY and MYR. ACY, MYR are more than unlikely.

ORD: AA, DL, F9, UA
LAS: AS, DL, WN
IAH/HOU: DL, UA, WN
DFW: AA, DL
DTW: DL
FLL: None

Given the list above, I could definitely see them being interested in DFW, IAH and maybe FLL? The competition is pretty stiff in ORD and LAS however...and I don't know how well DTW would work either.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 27):

I could see NK fly to IAH and DFW from SLC. It's just the big boys UA, AA, and DL on those routes and the fares are extremely high, no matter what time of year. Also MSP might work. DL is the only airline on that, and I think NK could steal some passengers because like DFW and IAH, MSP always has high fares. I could see SAN and LAX. There is tons of passengers flying between SLC and SoCal. FLL could be a possibility...but remember that AA is adding SLC-MIA service in March. Maybe even SJD?
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:12 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 21):
NO malicious intent. Why should OO be subsidized to carry non revers around? It is outright governmental waste.

While the E-120 is better suited to the market, the government was advised last EAS bid that the flight was moving up to the CRJ-200 due to the draw-down of the E-120, and despite the competition from the likes of Great Lakes and Air Midwest (among others,) who fly turboprops, the DOT chose SkyWest because it has greater revenue potential by being a connection carrier and because of its reliability, coupled by being backed by the community at large. While it's rare to see a plane go full of revenue out of CDC, the government is still going to pay the subsidy amount regardless if there were non-revs on the flight or not. I really don't see your argument here. The DOT wants butts in seats, and year after year, that minimum revenue quota is met and exceeded (well, except during the time of Air Midwest...) and that's what the government cares about.

Tell you what, though: Let's get rid of non-rev benefits, then everyone's on level ground, okay? Be ready to pay a lot more for your ticket, though, since those benefits are what's kept people in the industry from leaving.
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Legend757
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:16 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 28):

SAN I could see. Until recently, DL had that market all to themselves from SLC. LAX seems over saturated to me. I question the O&D to MSP and DTW...if there would be enough to interest NK.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 30):

The only problem I see with NK entering SLC is that with the entrance of AS in SLC market and the additions of F9 at SLC, AS and F9 have taken some of the potential routes NK might have been looking at from SLC. For example, AS's flights to SAN, PDX, LAX, as well as F9's new additions from SLC to ORD and PHX. I am sure NK is watching F9 and AS in SLC very closely.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:54 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 29):
While the E-120 is better suited to the market, the government was advised last EAS bid that the flight was moving up to the CRJ-200 due to the draw-down of the E-120, and despite the competition from the likes of Great Lakes and Air Midwest (among others,) who fly turboprops, the DOT chose SkyWest because it has greater revenue potential by being a connection carrier and because of its reliability, coupled by being backed by the community at large. While it's rare to see a plane go full of revenue out of CDC, the government is still going to pay the subsidy amount regardless if there were non-revs on the flight or not. I really don't see your argument here. The DOT wants butts in seats, and year after year, that minimum revenue quota is met and exceeded (well, except during the time of Air Midwest...) and that's what the government cares about.

OK, I will accept your explanation and will quit dogging on CDC. The boys in most dispatch centers are not as knowledgeable as you- for that I do commend you, and I do respect and have great appreciation for the jobs you do.
 
Legend757
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:10 am

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 31):

I've thought the same. That may be a distinct reason why AS is holding onto SLC. They know if they let go, others might swoop in....especially with highly valued gate space at SLC.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:22 am

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 33):
I've thought the same. That may be a distinct reason why AS is holding onto SLC. They know if they let go, others might swoop in....especially with highly valued gate space at SLC.

I don't think that is the case at all. AS kept out of SLC for years as they had an amiable relationship with DL.

The AS flights in SLC are hugely successful with the exception of 2 markets. LAS and SJC. I would envision AS dropping those later in the Spring and adding another RT to BOI and or SEA or PDX

[Edited 2014-10-09 17:29:02]
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:55 am

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 32):
OK, I will accept your explanation and will quit dogging on CDC.

I can accept if you're concerned about the discrepancy of having an RJ at CDC and E-120s at VEL and CNY. IMHO, VEL and CNY are just stop-gaps to keep the planes generating revenue as long as possible, and that the CRJ could not operate out of the fields anyhow. I'm sure eventually the DOT will have to give in and award VEL and CNY to Great Lakes or Key Lime, or whomever else out there is willing to fly the market once the E-120 is retired from OO's fleet.

When CDC was on the E-120, it was 3x daily, and now it's 2x daily CRJ on most days, which is only a net increase of 10 seats, and it roughly equates to the same fuel burnt. With the increasing costs of maintaining the E-120's, though, there's the possibility that running 2x CRJ could actually be cheaper.

Also, check out what switching of carriers did to IPL: the boardings plummeted, and now it's at risk to being dropped.
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Legend757
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 34):

Good point. But my main point was, Alaska seems committed to SLC that may be enhanced lately because other carriers are adding service and sniffing around, i.e. F9 and NK.
 
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:05 am

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 1):
Then again, I am all for preparing for the future, and if the need for a commercial airport in Park City is forseen in the next 10-20 years, now is the time to get started.

Little late jumping in, but I have to say I'm intrigued by the idea of commercializing Heber, mostly because of the challenges I see. I've flown there a few times in the past month, and it was certainly eye-opening to see how encroached-upon it is (especially compared to my home field of LGU, which is comparatively far from anything), particularly from the northeast, with not-insignificant terrain to the southwest. Additionally, I have to imagine that widening the runway would pose a challenge, given that US189 runs parallel to it just 100 yards or so away. That said, those are just my observations, and no doubt those involved with researching this have a lot more information at their disposal. It'll definitely be interesting to see how this eventually plays out!
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SLCSFOPDX
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:37 am

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 34):

The two times that I have flown AS out of SLC during or around the same time as the SJC departure, the AS gate agent had announced that the SJC flight was full. I know that a full flight that does determine if it's successful. But filling a 739 to SJC from SLC the two times I have been there and hearing the overall load factors have been good makes me think it's not doing as bad as some may think. The LAS flight was doomed from the beginning. AS is having a hard time filling those two flights a day to LAS. The SEA, PDX, LAX, SAN, and SFO flights having been going out full or almost full on a daily basis. I'm sure BOI is doing fine with the help of the loyal AS following on the BOI end.

WN has been reducing SLC service for a few years now. And with the gate situation on the main agenda at the next airport board meeting, it'll be interesting to see if WN gives up a gate or two in the B concourse. If that does happen, I could see F9 moving from A to B like B6 did to free up space for AS. If AS can get more one or even two mores gates at SLC, I could see AS/QX adding some more flights to SEA, LAX, and maybe even some new destinations to places such as BZN, BIL, and GEG.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:51 am

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 38):
I could see AS/QX adding some more flights to SEA, LAX, and maybe even some new destinations to places such as BZN, BIL, and GEG.

I can certainly see this as well. they have certainly been marketing this new service in SLC. There are billboards from Brigham City to Provo, UTA Buses, the Light Rail Trains are plastered, and they have been on almost every major Radio and TV Station in the area.

If WN should relinquish any gates, Im sure AS would be first in line, even if they had to operate a split operation on A and B concourses.
 
Legend757
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:39 am

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 38):

Do we see AS possibly adding any Eastern routes soon? By soon, I mean as they continue receive new aircraft.

There are a few routes DL has dominion over or doesn't serve at all that might work for AS. Of course they would have to start using SLC as a connection city instead of strictly O&D. Yes? EWR, BOS, FLL, TPA, STL, MCI come to mind.

Speculation of course, but not totally illogical I don't think.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:39 am

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 40):

I think if AS truly wants to make SLC a focus city or simply get a loyal following in SLC, than what they need to do is get at least one or two more gates and add a flight or two more to SEA, LAX, and PDX, as well as new service to ANC, GEG, and a couple Montana cities. I think AS could definitely expand from SLC to the east coast and maybe even Texas. I think only a few cities could work or make sense. The one's that come to mind are DFW, BOS, and EWR.

Again like I said, if AS truly wants to be a player at SLC and be the second largest carrier at SLC, and gain a loyal following, than they need to expand to markets that are currently over priced or have one or two carriers on them. That's why I think and couple Montana cities, GEG, DFW, BOS, and EWR make the most sense for east coast expansion and western expansion from SLC.

If AS can get to the point where passengers are flying and connecting in SLC, for example, SJC-SLC-DFW, or even BOI-SLC-LAX, on AS only flights, then they will truly be a threat and a player in the market in SLC. As a SLC resident, DL is the airline that dominates and has the most loyalty in SLC, as we all know. After that there truly isn't a clear number two airline in SLC. Yes WN carriers the second most passengers but when it comes to loyalty, connections, and offering destinations that cater to SLC and Utah residents, that spot is up for the taking and I think AS has the true potential to be the number two airline here in SLC. B6 tried a few years ago, but they failed to make that personal connection with SLC and Utah residents. Like already mentioned AS has been bathing the SLC metro area with billboards, radio, television, and newspaper advertisements. Even with local Utah universities and cultural groups, you will see and hear that AS is now a sponsor or a partner. AS is in the process of building a strong relationship with the Polynesian community here in the SLC area. Which s brilliant because Utah has one of the largest Polynesian populations per capita after California, Hawaii, and Alaska. AS offers flights from SLC to cities where there are large Polynesian populations like Seattle, Los Angeles, and the Bay Area. AS has the product, service, business cultural background and reputation that would make SLC and Utah residents love them and become their number one choice airline for flying out of SLC.

[Edited 2014-10-09 22:42:42]

[Edited 2014-10-09 22:58:35]
 
Legend757
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 41):

It's true, one of the main distinctions between what AS is doing in SLC now and what B6 tried years ago is AS's enormous marketing effort. B6 really failed to make their expansion known in SLC. No real effort to try and construct a firm loyal customer base.

I see AS really trying to make it work at SLC. They are being patient, and are marketing themselves well.

[Edited 2014-10-10 14:28:58]
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 22):
As for potential airlines coming to SLC, I think FI or FE could potentially serve SLC. SLC seems like a destination those airlines would serve. Y4 is a possibility but I am sure DL would fight hard to keep GDL and MEX to themselves. SLC doesn't seem like a city VX would serve. NK is only a matter of time until they fly to SLC. SLC, along with SEA, are two of the biggest holes in their network. AC used to fly to SLC from YYZ but DL matched them on price and drove them out of SLC. HA I think is a possibility once they get some of their new planes in a few years. Other than that, I can't think of any other airline......

You would probably see WestJet in SLC before any other International carriers with the exception of Volaris or Interjet. The AC-Jazz t flight to Toronto a few years back, had decent loads in the beginning, but it was on a RJ and was short lived..guess a few too many business passengers tried that and if they were loyal to Star Alliance, they would rather take UA to DEN or ORD and then to Toronto, rather than flying the RJ that distance.

As far as HA, I could see them open up DEN and SLC with a tag end type flight operating HNL-SLC-DEN-HNL three to four times a week. BUT HA has this nonstop to HNL mantra so I don't know whether they would ever consider that.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 22):
AC used to fly to SLC from YYZ but DL matched them on price and drove them out of SLC.

Then DL dropped the SLC-YYZ route post merger stating enough connections via MSP or DTW could cover this. One airline that could show up in SLC in the trans-border business is WS.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
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mayor
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:18 am

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 22):
AC used to fly to SLC from YYZ but DL matched them on price and drove them out of SLC.

Mind telling me that time frame when that happened? I worked there for 23 years for DL and don't remember AC ever flying into and out of SLC.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
ridgid727
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:33 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 45):

Mind telling me that time frame when that happened? I worked there for 23 years for DL and don't remember AC ever flying into and out of SLC.

It was in 2006 didn't last long. Check etc was at UAL counter and I believe UA handled almost everything for them in SLC


http://www.itravelmag.com/travel-art...ir-canada-non-stop-salt-lake-3-06/

[Edited 2014-10-10 20:35:57]
 
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mayor
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:58 am

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 46):

It was in 2006 didn't last long. Check etc was at UAL counter and I believe UA handled almost everything for them in SLC

Ok....thanks.....that was after I retired.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:47 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 43):

Does DL still have a codeshare with WS? If so, I can definitely see WS serving SLC. probably from YVR or YYC. I think WS would do well in SLC.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Utah Aviation Thread

Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:18 pm

The biggest challenge for SLC-MEX will be the fall. Mid December-Early April and summer will have no issues filling up. Tons of connections on both ends, and alot of MEX 1%ers have purchased real estate in Park City in the recent years. delta should be able to get a premium for the non-stop, it will be challenged in the fall and spring though. I think this is a route Delta can pull off, the 319 looks like a great aircraft for the mission.

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