Delta confirms plan to get CS100 regardless of current legal dispute between Bombardier and Boeing
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rk-439306/

And another confirmation by Swiss and Air Baltic that their CS100 and CS300 have better reliability and performance than expected.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ce-439012/

Swiss has started CS100 trials at London City Airport:

http://atwonline.com/airframes/swiss-cs ... city-debut

Hello
I have some news about KAL's CS300.
First Delivery Aircraft is HL8092. It will be delivery at September or October.
Second Delivery Aircraft is HL8093. It will be delivery at October.
Third Delivery Aircraft is HL8091. It will be delivery at November.
Forth Delivery Aircraft is HL7200. It will be delivery at November, too.
Fifth Delivery Aircraft is HL7201 It will be delivery at December.
Delivery Flight Route is YUL-ANC-CTS-GMP. Thank you very much.
Please, teach to me, KAL's CS300's MSN!

N837MH wrote:

Hello
I have some news about KAL's CS300.
First Delivery Aircraft is HL8092. It will be delivery at September or October.
Second Delivery Aircraft is HL8093. It will be delivery at October.
Third Delivery Aircraft is HL8091. It will be delivery at November.
Forth Delivery Aircraft is HL7200. It will be delivery at November, too.
Fifth Delivery Aircraft is HL7201 It will be delivery at December.
Delivery Flight Route is YUL-ANC-CTS-GMP. Thank you very much.
Please, teach to me, KAL's CS300's MSN!

Do you have a source?

tacobell101 wrote:

N837MH wrote:

Hello
I have some news about KAL's CS300.
First Delivery Aircraft is HL8092. It will be delivery at September or October.
Second Delivery Aircraft is HL8093. It will be delivery at October.
Third Delivery Aircraft is HL8091. It will be delivery at November.
Forth Delivery Aircraft is HL7200. It will be delivery at November, too.
Fifth Delivery Aircraft is HL7201 It will be delivery at December.
Delivery Flight Route is YUL-ANC-CTS-GMP. Thank you very much.
Please, teach to me, KAL's CS300's MSN!

Do you have a source?

Of Course. KAL Crew said to me.

BT CS300 #6 YL-CSF just landed at RIX.

angelopga wrote:

BT CS300 #6 YL-CSF just landed at RIX.

=>

Bombardier CS 300 55008 YL-CSF Air Baltic delivery 20jul17 YMX-RIX ex C-FOWY

YL-CSF flying to ZRH as BT641

Yep, YL-CSF went straight into revenue service:

Riga. Today, on July 21, 2017, the Latvian airline airBaltic has set a new world record as its newest CS300 turnaround for the first commercial flight took only 50 minutes after delivery from Canada.

http://newsroom.aviator.aero/airbaltics ... ld-record/

With what we can see as a smooth EIS for Swiss and Baltic, and the confidence they show with the product, I am still at a loss that this has not turned into any new orders from new clients. Seems like a great plane for a lot of operators, and getting in early would guarantee slots, but, it just can't seem to get any traction.

airnorth wrote:

With what we can see as a smooth EIS for Swiss and Baltic, and the confidence they show with the product, I am still at a loss that this has not turned into any new orders from new clients. Seems like a great plane for a lot of operators, and getting in early would guarantee slots, but, it just can't seem to get any traction.

Early slots will be hard to plan for at the moment. There's an uncertain delivery schedule as we see how Bombardier manages the ramp up. And the slots certainly aren't disappearing quickly, so there's not much pressure to jump in line right now. There is also the long term reliability to be seen. Then there's Bombardier's ability to support a growing number of aircraft, especially with their finances, which while not dire at the moment are likely to remain shaky for several more years.

And there may also be some pricing complications created by the Boeing dumping filing.

I was also hoping a smooth EIS would shake loose a few more orders, but I wasn't holding out for a deluge. It's been disappointing that interest hasn't picked up, but it seems they have more to prove. They've got some traction. Hopefully soon that traction generates noticeable momentum.

iamlucky13 wrote:

airnorth wrote:

With what we can see as a smooth EIS for Swiss and Baltic, and the confidence they show with the product, I am still at a loss that this has not turned into any new orders from new clients. Seems like a great plane for a lot of operators, and getting in early would guarantee slots, but, it just can't seem to get any traction.

Early slots will be hard to plan for at the moment. There's an uncertain delivery schedule as we see how Bombardier manages the ramp up. And the slots certainly aren't disappearing quickly, so there's not much pressure to jump in line right now. There is also the long term reliability to be seen. Then there's Bombardier's ability to support a growing number of aircraft, especially with their finances, which while not dire at the moment are likely to remain shaky for several more years.

And there may also be some pricing complications created by the Boeing dumping filing.

I was also hoping a smooth EIS would shake loose a few more orders, but I wasn't holding out for a deluge. It's been disappointing that interest hasn't picked up, but it seems they have more to prove. They've got some traction. Hopefully soon that traction generates noticeable momentum.

I agree with almost everything you've said here. The only point I disagree with is BBD's ability to support the CSeries aircraft in service. Between the DHC8 family + Q400, all the CRJ's, plus all the various bizjets, BBD has many aircraft in service all over the world. Their support network is widespread and well established. Of course, there can always be issues with suppliers, but every manufacturer can be affected by such problems.

Even if it hasn't prompted more orders, it is still very good to see Swiss and Baltic showing confidence in their aircraft. I too hope for more orders before too long.

aerolimani, I'm not necessarily disagreeing. However, the CSeries brings Bombardier into closer competition with Boeing and Airbus, who have much more extensive support networks, and far more resources to throw at any problems that arise. Although things are going smoothly, even the best aircraft have mechanical issues from time to time that require manufacturer support, and as Bombardier ramps up production, they will be in a position of supporting more aircraft on more important routes than their prior trend, so they need to be ready for that. There is a potential disadvantage of scale there, too, because Boeing and Airbus have so many aircraft around the world that there's a very large number of AOG teams around the world, able to handle multiple simultaneous issues.

For what it's worth, some of the folks I've discussed the CSeries with who work for A and B have indicated their proven in-service support capabilities are one of sales strategies they're counting on to counter the CSeries. They may not have anything concrete to claim against Bombardier there, but they're hoping for Bombardier to stumble on that point.

iamlucky13 wrote:

For what it's worth, some of the folks I've discussed the CSeries with who work for A and B have indicated their proven in-service support capabilities are one of sales strategies they're counting on to counter the CSeries. They may not have anything concrete to claim against Bombardier there, but they're hoping for Bombardier to stumble on that point.

I'm no expert. But it seems Bombardier has been making significant recent investments in global service and support. And it's my understanding that their current service and support is one area that they are not considered weak in.

So while A and B might certainly use that strategy against the C-Series. It sounds like Bombardier has some good sound logic to counter it. http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... -workforce

The article is more in reference to their biz jet operations but that I would think could also be leveraged for their commercial operations as well.

IIRC the biggest issue with Bombardier's support is that is heavily concentrated in the US (because that is where most of the CRJs are) and to a lesser extent Europe. If they want the C Series to be a success Bombardier needs to boost their worldwide support network. Having great American support is useless for a Southeast Asian operator for example.

KarelXWB wrote:

Apparently Bombardier plans to deliver 5 CSeries aircraft in July:

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/5-cseries-s ... 54489.html

yyztpa wrote:

Is the Swiss' second CS300 to arrive before the two for Air Baltic?

According to the article above, yes. All 5 delivery dates are listed.

Unless something changes today, deliveries for July appear to be 3 with 55009 doing some test flights in week 4.

Did BBD provide updated guidance on 2017 deliveries at their last quarterly? Reaching a total of 30-35 by year end will be a long climb.

Bombardier says it sticks with its delivery guidance, with the bulk of the deliveries scheduled at the end of the year.

I saw 55015 active on FR24, last week; the activity was not clear, though: it looked like low-altitude low-speed flying around YMX… Looked to my ignorant eye more like an artefact of an avionics testing than an actual flight.

KarelXWB wrote:

Bombardier says it sticks with its delivery guidance, with the bulk of the deliveries scheduled at the end of the year.

I wish I knew more, but Bombardier is being consistent with repeating 30 to 35 in 2017. Here is a link from mid-June:

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... y-schedule

Bummer all the combustors must be replaced in the engines (see above link). That is expensive! (Engine casing must be opened which means all the seals must be replaced.)

At least dispatch reliability seems good for a new type.

Lightsaber

Work is underway at Delta's flight simulator for the upcoming CSeries aircraft:


https://twitter.com/AirplaneGuy2013/sta ... 4420419584

lightsaber wrote:

KarelXWB wrote:

Bombardier says it sticks with its delivery guidance, with the bulk of the deliveries scheduled at the end of the year.

I wish I knew more, but Bombardier is being consistent with repeating 30 to 35 in 2017. Here is a link from mid-June:

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... y-schedule

Bummer all the combustors must be replaced in the engines (see above link). That is expensive! (Engine casing must be opened which means all the seals must be replaced.)

At least dispatch reliability seems good for a new type.

Lightsaber

I imagine they will swap in upgraded engines rather than forcing airlines to deal with the extra downtime of fixing and replacing engines.

A skeptical article about the CSeries production rate:

Bombardier still maintain today that they will deliver 30 C Series aircraft this year. But the delivery rate remains at two aircraft per month after eight months. And if it stays there any longer it will become increasingly difficult for Bombardier to meet their objectives.

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/c-series-pr ... 49946.html

Another airBaltic delivered:

Bombardier CS 300 55009 YL-CSG Air Baltic delivery 10aug17 YMX-RIX ex C-FPBD

An interesting Q and A with Bombardier's CSeries program manager about the operations from London City Airport.
https://www.airinsight.com/q-bombardiers-rob-dewar/

He actually discussed some factors of operations from LCY that influenced the design process for the CSeries. He also mentioned several other airports Bombardier apparently believe the CSeries is a good fit for.

KarelXWB wrote:

A skeptical article about the CSeries production rate:

Bombardier still maintain today that they will deliver 30 C Series aircraft this year. But the delivery rate remains at two aircraft per month after eight months. And if it stays there any longer it will become increasingly difficult for Bombardier to meet their objectives.

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/c-series-pr ... 49946.html

My understanding is the lack of "gliders" is at least partially due to holding down the final assembly rate, but sub-assemblies are still being completed and stored until needed.

I can not authoritatively verify this information.

First Korean Air CS300 has been painted





https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 9578946560

I was wondering about this one. I like it.

I am not sure if this has been asked or discussed already so please forgive me.

The CSeries uses a version of PW GTF.

The ones on the A320NEO have been causing some drama.

Are the CSeries' engines, likewise, also experiencing performance problems?

Also, I heard that part of the reason QR cancelled their A320NEOs was because of issues the GTF was having in hot, sandy conditions. Is that true?

If so, is the version of engines available on the CSeries also affected in the same way?

The CSeries, from what I understand, is only offered with GTF engines. Is this maybe one of the reasons that airlines are holding off on orders - a new aircraft type with a new technology engine and NO alternative conventional engine choice?

This has been discussed to oblivion, do some searching.

ikolkyo wrote:

This has been discussed to oblivion, do some searching.

At this point there are over 1600 replies.

If someone who knows and is willing and able to just briefly paraphrase what the conclusion is, that will be easier for me and anyone else who may have a similar question.

Maybe I'll have better luck with some searching. Thanks.

MoKa777 wrote:

If so, is the version of engines available on the CSeries also affected in the same way?

Yes CSeries engine could face similar problems, even Bombardier admitted that PW1500G powerplant requires upgrades.

We haven't seen issues on CSeries for the same reason we haven't seen problems on Lufthansa's A320neo fleet: European weather is not as harsh for the engine as Indian climate. Lufthansa, Swiss and airBaltic are operating in similar climate. Things could have been different if CSeries entered service in India or Dubai, for example.

MoKa777 wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

This has been discussed to oblivion, do some searching.

At this point there are over 1600 replies.

If someone who knows and is willing and able to just briefly paraphrase what the conclusion is, that will be easier for me and anyone else who may have a similar question.

Maybe I'll have better luck with some searching. Thanks.

Here is a quick run down, (I was talking about searching other threads. not this one). The big difference between the PW1500G and PW1100G is the mounting position that is causing some issues. I believe the PW1100G is mounted from the core while the PW1500G and other variants are mounted from the fan. Pratt believes this is what is causing a lot of issues the with the PW1100G engine and other variants aren't suffering as much. Both engines share some of the same issues but the PW1100G has a few unique ones. This thread provides some insight. viewtopic.php?t=776651

KarelXWB wrote:

MoKa777 wrote:

If so, is the version of engines available on the CSeries also affected in the same way?

Yes CSeries engine could face similar problems, even Bombardier admitted that PW1500G powerplant requires upgrades.

We haven't seen issues on CSeries for the same reason we haven't seen problems on Lufthansa's A320neo fleet: European weather is not as harsh for the engine as Indian climate. Lufthansa, Swiss and airBaltic are operating in similar climate. Things could have been different if CSeries entered service in India or Dubai, for example.

ikolkyo wrote:

MoKa777 wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

This has been discussed to oblivion, do some searching.

At this point there are over 1600 replies.

If someone who knows and is willing and able to just briefly paraphrase what the conclusion is, that will be easier for me and anyone else who may have a similar question.

Maybe I'll have better luck with some searching. Thanks.

Here is a quick run down, (I was talking about searching other threads. not this one). The big difference between the PW1500G and PW1100G is the mounting position that is causing some issues. I believe the PW1100G is mounted from the core while the PW1500G and other variants are mounted from the fan. Pratt believes this is what is causing a lot of issues the with the PW1100G engine and other variants aren't suffering as much. Both engines share some of the same issues but the PW1100G has a few unique ones. This thread provides some insight. viewtopic.php?t=776651

Thanks guys. Just spent the last hour scouring through the 1000+ replies and found this same info, too. Thanks again, anyway.

viewtopic.php?t=776651 Informative thread link ikolkyo, thanks.

Beautiful, reliable aircraft. Can't wait for more orders and subsequent deliveries.

Expect the next CS3 for LX being delivered within days. I see HB-JCC currently planned for commercial ops as per AUG 28th.

Bombardier forecast that they would deliver 30-35 Cseries jets this year. So far, it has delivered only 9 despite using all efforts to increase production. Bombardier just cannot seem to get its act together in getting its production to targeted levels. It also is having serious problems on its train side and is seriously lagging in its streetcar and train production. Perhaps money problems are causing slow production? I cannot see Bombardier landing serious orders for its CSeries until it gets its production problems resolved.

Err.....Jetsouth. I'm not sure under which rock you have been lately but the delays in delivery of the C-series are more down to the engine availability than the frame itself.
737MAX & 32SNEO see the same delays due to engine related issues....
It has absolutely nothing to do with BBD, their trains or their bankaccounts...... Do some research before posting such nonsense....

Jetsouth wrote:

Bombardier forecast that they would deliver 30-35 Cseries jets this year. So far, it has delivered only 9 despite using all efforts to increase production. Bombardier just cannot seem to get its act together in getting its production to targeted levels. It also is having serious problems on its train side and is seriously lagging in its streetcar and train production. Perhaps money problems are causing slow production? I cannot see Bombardier landing serious orders for its CSeries until it gets its production problems resolved.

BBD is probably learning that the experience curve in producing composite wings is far more challenging than for aluminum wings.

Jetsouth wrote:

So far, it has delivered only 9 despite using all efforts to increase production..

It has delivered 10.

I would love to know what the real story is, whether it is engines (PW) or airframe (BBD) that are unable to ramp up production adequately.

Unfortunately, the aviation press seems to think that they are the marketing arm of the various producers, instead of merely reporting what is going on (or what is not in this case)



PS I've been lurking on Airliners.net for 15 or so years, this is my first post.

Nean1 wrote:

BBD is probably learning that the experience curve in producing composite wings is far more challenging than for aluminum wings.

The bottleneck definitely is not due to Belfast.

Does anyone know:

1) What the maximum theoretical output of the CSeries production system is?
2) What rate Bombardier is gearing up to?

All they've said is that they intend to deliver 30-35 by the end of the year, which it appears they clearly won't make.

I'd love to see more detail around this topic from anyone "in the know."

SteelChair wrote:

I would love to know what the real story is, whether it is engines (PW) or airframe (BBD) that are unable to ramp up production adequately.

Unfortunately, the aviation press seems to think that they are the marketing arm of the various producers, instead of merely reporting what is going on (or what is not in this case)

PS I've been lurking on Airliners.net for 15 or so years, this is my first post.

It seems that Bombardier is struggling a bit with "Chinese parts":

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/cseries-pro ... 89578.html

SteelChair wrote:

I would love to know what the real story is, whether it is engines (PW) or airframe (BBD) that are unable to ramp up production adequately.

Unfortunately, the aviation press seems to think that they are the marketing arm of the various producers, instead of merely reporting what is going on (or what is not in this case)

There are fewer and fewer REAL stories being elucidated on Airliners. The agenda drivers and ambulance chasers are more numerous than ever.

LOL - what a great use of term "ambulance chasers" . Couldn't put it better myself!


There are fewer and fewer REAL stories being elucidated on Airliners. The agenda drivers and ambulance chasers are more numerous than ever.[/quote]

SteelChair wrote:

What the maximum theoretical output of the CSeries production system is?

10 aircraft / month at full rate with the current final assembly facility.

Nean1 wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

Bombardier forecast that they would deliver 30-35 Cseries jets this year. So far, it has delivered only 9 despite using all efforts to increase production. Bombardier just cannot seem to get its act together in getting its production to targeted levels. It also is having serious problems on its train side and is seriously lagging in its streetcar and train production. Perhaps money problems are causing slow production? I cannot see Bombardier landing serious orders for its CSeries until it gets its production problems resolved.

BBD is probably learning that the experience curve in producing composite wings is far more challenging than for aluminum wings.

Wing production is not the issue.

SteelChair wrote:

1) What the maximum theoretical output of the CSeries production system is?

There has been previous discussion of 10 per month:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... up-419427/

SteelChair wrote:

All they've said is that they intend to deliver 30-35 by the end of the year, which it appears they clearly won't make.

I believe they indicated at the beginning of the year that the deliveries would be heavily biased towards the second half. It's appearing less likely they'll actually hit 30, but it's not quite out of the question if they're stockpiling sub-assemblies while waiting on the bottlenecks to be resolved.

Ability to ramp up has been one of the known program risks that I suspect is holding up orders. Until Bombardier achieves their planned rate, potential new customers don't know when they'll be receiving their aircraft.

fbeaulie wrote:

It seems that Bombardier is struggling a bit with "Chinese parts":

This has been a problem since well before first flight. I would not be at all surprised to hear of some contractor changes.

Does anyone know how many are parked waiting for Engines?

Wes..

To Iamlucky13 and fbeaulie, thanks for those replies.

If the problem is not wings, what is it?

I, too, would be interested to know how many completed airframes are sitting around....is PW finally ramping up engines?

It is interesting to think that the lack of production is holding up more orders. One would think, with A320 series and Boeing 737 series sold out basically for the next 3-4 years, that 10 a month would be an achievable target (even though the A320/B737 don't directly compete since they are bigger).

I'm hoping Bombardier is rewarded for the risk that they have taken in producing this revolutionary aircraft.

It would seem that the next customer to place a large order would be rewarded with delivery slots that might not be available otherwise.

If it was the engines that is the holdup, then one would expect that the Bombardier facility would be loaded with engine-less CS100's and 300's stored awaiting engines. From what I understand, there are only 3 or 4 engine-less CS100's sitting around, and those were among the first production units.( Why these have been sitting there for so long (since at least the winter-time) is anyone's guess). So the question is, why is production not higher? Wings? "Chinese Parts?". or another reason. Or is production simply going to increase for the balance of the year so that 5 are going to be delivered in each of September, October, November and December, so that they can make at least the promised 30 deliveries this year?

Jetsouth wrote:

If it was the engines that is the holdup, then one would expect that the Bombardier facility would be loaded with engine-less CS100's and 300's stored awaiting engines. From what I understand, there are only 3 or 4 engine-less CS100's sitting around, and those were among the first production units.( Why these have been sitting there for so long (since at least the winter-time) is anyone's guess). So the question is, why is production not higher? Wings? "Chinese Parts?". or another reason. Or is production simply going to increase for the balance of the year so that 5 are going to be delivered in each of September, October, November and December, so that they can make at least the promised 30 deliveries this year?

BBD isn't in a financial position to build a bunch of frames and have them sitting.