Someone83 wrote:

yyztpa wrote:

When does delivery ramp so these are non events? With 3 ytd, is 30-35 still a realistic goal for 2017?

Compared with the A350 at the same time in 2016, it is actually a "smaller" ramp up. Airbus had delivered 4 A350s in Q1, and ended with 49 at year end

True, but the first A350 delivery was only in December of the previous year. So within 12 months, around 50 deliveries. The first CS was 9 months ago.

yyztpa wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

yyztpa wrote:

When does delivery ramp so these are non events? With 3 ytd, is 30-35 still a realistic goal for 2017?

Compared with the A350 at the same time in 2016, it is actually a "smaller" ramp up. Airbus had delivered 4 A350s in Q1, and ended with 49 at year end

True, but the first A350 delivery was only in December of the previous year. So within 12 months, around 50 deliveries. The first CS was 9 months ago.

No, first delivery was December 2014, them 14 in 2015, followed by 49 in 2016

CSeries deliveries are slow but the aircraft appear to enter service quickly and fly trouble-free, some SWISS CS100 operate eight flights a day for some time now.

Airbus has delivered quite a few GTF-powered A320NEO, but they have had quite a few issues too with most(?) aircraft/engines... so which company took the best decision?

What routes will Korean use their CS300 on? Long thin Asian routes or high-frequency domestic routes?

So we are almost through four months of 2017, and three CS100/300s have been delivered thus far this year. The seven aircraft that were delivered last year were delivered in the last seven months of the year (June through December), meaning that, thus far, BBD's 2017 delivery rate is running at a slower clip than 2016. Guidance, last I checked, was still 30-35 deliveries - a very difficult target to reach as time ticks on. Have any of our intrepid YMX spotters seen any action lately?

The next LX CS100 had its first flight two weeks ago and I expect it to be delivered shortly.

Seems that EASA and Transport Canada have officially certified steep approach capacity... up to which approach slope?
http://commercialaircraft.bombardier.co ... ercom.html

I wonder when Swiss begins their LCY flights.

chornedsnorkack wrote:

Seems that EASA and Transport Canada have officially certified steep approach capacity... up to which approach slope?
http://commercialaircraft.bombardier.co ... ercom.html

I 2nd the Question. I do not know the tolerances of the LCY approach. There needs to be some adjustment...

Lightsaber

JoeCanuck wrote:

I wonder when Swiss begins their LCY flights.

After an approved training program and trained pilots. 3 months? Just my SWAG.

Lightsaber

chornedsnorkack wrote:

Seems that EASA and Transport Canada have officially certified steep approach capacity... up to which approach slope?
http://commercialaircraft.bombardier.co ... ercom.html

5.5 degrees

CRJ900 wrote:

What routes will Korean use their CS300 on? Long thin Asian routes or high-frequency domestic routes?

Last I heard, it was planned to be primarily for routes to secondary cities in China.

Who is the next airline to receive the Cseries after Swiss, airBaltic and Korean?

golfradio wrote:

chornedsnorkack wrote:

Seems that EASA and Transport Canada have officially certified steep approach capacity... up to which approach slope?
http://commercialaircraft.bombardier.co ... ercom.html

5.5 degrees

But I think they need to test and validate up to 8.5 degrees to be certified.

It should't take long, since Swiss Avro pilots have been flying to LCY for many years, even though on a different aircraft type, I must admit, but they're LCY certified.

rbrunner wrote:

It should't take long, since Swiss Avro pilots have been flying to LCY for many years, even though on a different aircraft type, I must admit, but they're LCY certified.

in addition, Swiss pilots did the CS100's LCY flight test.

According to AeroTelegraph the first flight is planned for Q3.

Swiss' first CS300 made its first flight yesterday.

Jetsouth wrote:

Does anyone know which is the next airline that will receive the CSeries jet after SWISS, airBaltic and Korean?

According to André Allard, the answer is : SaudiGulf Airlines

fbeaulie wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

Does anyone know which is the next airline that will receive the CSeries jet after SWISS, airBaltic and Korean?

According to André Allard, the answer is : SaudiGulf Airlines

But, according to Sylvain Faust, the answer might be : Delta...

Delta isn't supposed to get theirs until 2018. Not sure if BBD is going to slot anyone in between KE and DL...

fbeaulie wrote:

But, according to Sylvain Faust, the answer might be : Delta...

Would that contribute to the timing of Boeing's recent action I wonder.

Isn't HB-JBH going to fly home today? Does anyone know when she is due to leave Mirabel?

rbrunner wrote:

Isn't HB-JBH going to fly home today? Does anyone know when she is due to leave Mirabel?

HB-JBH is on her way to ZRH as SWR5201.

Brgds,
Ka.

ka wrote:

rbrunner wrote:

Isn't HB-JBH going to fly home today? Does anyone know when she is due to leave Mirabel?

HB-JBH is on her way to ZRH as SWR5201.

Brgds,
Ka.

Thank you!

Unless BBD can pick up their delivery pace I doubt we'll see any more orders. There is clearly a major production delay issue. Why would anybody order an aircraft that looks likely to be significantly delayed?

Skywatcher wrote:

Unless BBD can pick up their delivery pace I doubt we'll see any more orders. There is clearly a major production delay issue. Why would anybody order an aircraft that looks likely to be significantly delayed?

As has already been much discussed in this thread, the problem is not with BBD. It's Pratt. The same problem with GTF production is also causing delays for the A320NEO. CFM is also causing delays for the A350. Plus, there's at least one A330NEO glider sitting around, waiting for engines from RR.

All purchasers know that these problems are not the fault of BBD (or Airbus, for that matter). This has happened before, and history has shown that the engine manufacturers will get their act together, and production will pick up again. At least the PW1500G, on the CSeries, isn't having problems like the PW1100G on the A320NEO. So far, the PW1500G seems to be performing very well.

I'm not saying that the delays aren't a concern to a purchaser. I just don't think it's a big enough concern to prevent any and all major orders. I'd say that the financial health of BBD is of MUCH greater concern to a purchasing airline than the current setback due to problems at Pratt.

So, getting back to flight testing and production…

As to BBD's current slow production rate, I'm sure they are pacing themselves based on engine availability. It's not great to have a bunch of fully built frames sitting around, deteriorating outside in Montréal's weather.

*Edited to correct error re A330NEO.

BBD's Q1 2017 results come out tomorrow. I suspect to see pressure on the delivery guidance for this year.

So when is the delivery of the first CS300 to SWISS, and the next to AirBaltic. Both have been in flight testing? Is the first for Korean CS300 in flight testing yet?

aerolimani wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

Unless BBD can pick up their delivery pace I doubt we'll see any more orders. There is clearly a major production delay issue. Why would anybody order an aircraft that looks likely to be significantly delayed?

As has already been much discussed in this thread, the problem is not with BBD. It's Pratt. The same problem with GTF production is also causing delays for the A320NEO. CFM is also causing delays for the A350. Plus, there's at least one A330NEO glider sitting around, waiting for engines from RR.

All purchasers know that these problems are not the fault of BBD (or Airbus, for that matter). This has happened before, and history has shown that the engine manufacturers will get their act together, and production will pick up again. At least the PW1500G, on the CSeries, isn't having problems like the PW1100G on the A320NEO. So far, the PW1500G seems to be performing very well.

I'm not saying that the delays aren't a concern to a purchaser. I just don't think it's a big enough concern to prevent any and all major orders. I'd say that the financial health of BBD is of MUCH greater concern to a purchasing airline than the current setback due to problems at Pratt.

So, getting back to flight testing and production…

As to BBD's current slow production rate, I'm sure they are pacing themselves based on engine availability. It's not great to have a bunch of fully built frames sitting around, deteriorating outside in Montréal's weather.

*Edited to correct error re A330NEO.

From what I've heard, Zodiac is also blamed for some of the most recent delays. It's true that there are a couple of CS100s parked in YMX without engines, but it's unknown if these were just sitting there waiting for engines, or if there are other reasons. Maybe they will be delivered to a customer who pushed back deliveries.

First CS300 for Swiss should be next week. The first CS300 for Korean is rumored to be SN 55017. It's unclear when it will fly.

aerolimani wrote:

[As has already been much discussed in this thread, the problem is not with BBD. It's Pratt. The same problem with GTF production is also causing delays for the A320NEO. CFM is also causing delays for the A350. Plus, there's at least one A330NEO glider sitting around, waiting for engines from RR.

Think you got A350/CFM a bit wrong. I remember GE declining to offer an engine with thrust to cover all planned variants, so giving RR an exclusive on the A350.

art wrote:

aerolimani wrote:

[As has already been much discussed in this thread, the problem is not with BBD. It's Pratt. The same problem with GTF production is also causing delays for the A320NEO. CFM is also causing delays for the A350. Plus, there's at least one A330NEO glider sitting around, waiting for engines from RR.

Think you got A350/CFM a bit wrong. I remember GE declining to offer an engine with thrust to cover all planned variants, so giving RR an exclusive on the A350.

That was a typo, I guess he meant A320NEO

SQ22 wrote:

art wrote:

aerolimani wrote:

[As has already been much discussed in this thread, the problem is not with BBD. It's Pratt. The same problem with GTF production is also causing delays for the A320NEO. CFM is also causing delays for the A350. Plus, there's at least one A330NEO glider sitting around, waiting for engines from RR.

Think you got A350/CFM a bit wrong. I remember GE declining to offer an engine with thrust to cover all planned variants, so giving RR an exclusive on the A350.

That was a typo, I guess he meant A320NEO

Yes, thanks. You'd think I'd catch that on the reread and edit I already did! On the keypad, the 5 is just above the 2. It's a good thing I'm not an accountant!

Jetsouth wrote:

So when is the delivery of the first CS300 to SWISS,

End of Q2 I believe (i.e. next month).

Quantos wrote:

aerolimani wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

Unless BBD can pick up their delivery pace I doubt we'll see any more orders. There is clearly a major production delay issue. Why would anybody order an aircraft that looks likely to be significantly delayed?

As has already been much discussed in this thread, the problem is not with BBD. It's Pratt. The same problem with GTF production is also causing delays for the A320NEO. CFM is also causing delays for the A350. Plus, there's at least one A330NEO glider sitting around, waiting for engines from RR.

All purchasers know that these problems are not the fault of BBD (or Airbus, for that matter). This has happened before, and history has shown that the engine manufacturers will get their act together, and production will pick up again. At least the PW1500G, on the CSeries, isn't having problems like the PW1100G on the A320NEO. So far, the PW1500G seems to be performing very well.

I'm not saying that the delays aren't a concern to a purchaser. I just don't think it's a big enough concern to prevent any and all major orders. I'd say that the financial health of BBD is of MUCH greater concern to a purchasing airline than the current setback due to problems at Pratt.

So, getting back to flight testing and production…

As to BBD's current slow production rate, I'm sure they are pacing themselves based on engine availability. It's not great to have a bunch of fully built frames sitting around, deteriorating outside in Montréal's weather.

*Edited to correct error re A330NEO.

From what I've heard, Zodiac is also blamed for some of the most recent delays. It's true that there are a couple of CS100s parked in YMX without engines, but it's unknown if these were just sitting there waiting for engines, or if there are other reasons. Maybe they will be delivered to a customer who pushed back deliveries.

First CS300 for Swiss should be next week. The first CS300 for Korean is rumored to be SN 55017. It's unclear when it will fly.

That's right. I don't know how many test flights the first CS300 for SWISS has done so far, but delivery should happen fairly soon.

After lots of silence, Bombardier finally confirms that the PW1500G engine suffers similar issues as the PW1100G on the A320neo:

Bombardier has confirmed the Pratt & Whitney engine powering the CSeries will require similar upgrades that are required for the Airbus A320neo aircraft family.

...

P&W has redesigned the carbon air assembly in the No. 3 bearing of the PW1100G engine to improve the durability of the component. The redesign was approved by certification authorities last month and has entered the production system.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-437136/

KarelXWB wrote:

After lots of silence, Bombardier finally confirms that the PW1500G engine suffers similar issues as the PW1100G on the A320neo:

Bombardier has confirmed the Pratt & Whitney engine powering the CSeries will require similar upgrades that are required for the Airbus A320neo aircraft family.

...

P&W has redesigned the carbon air assembly in the No. 3 bearing of the PW1100G engine to improve the durability of the component. The redesign was approved by certification authorities last month and has entered the production system.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-437136/

This is an example of something that's bothering me about Pratt. This problem has been around for the CSeries just as long as it's been around for the neo...but we're just hearing about it now...not only long after the problem was discovered, but after it has been fixed and certified. It makes it feel like they were covering it up.

This is something that may have had a material affect on the CSeries program, but the public was kept in the dark until they snuck the news in once they got it fixed. In the meantime, they were playing it like it was a one off problem for the neo engines only .

What the hell is going on at Pratt...?

To be fair, BBD obviously new about this too and said nothing, so it's not like Pratt is alone in this...but still...it's their engine.

JoeCanuck wrote:

This is an example of something that's bothering me about Pratt. This problem has been around for the CSeries just as long as it's been around for the neo...but we're just hearing about it now...not only long after the problem was discovered, but after it has been fixed and certified. It makes it feel like they were covering it up.

This is something that may have, or have had, a material affect on the CSeries program, but the public was kept in the dark until they snuck the news in once they got it fixed. In the meantime, they were playing it like it was a one off problem for the neo engines only .

What the hell is going on at Pratt...?

You can hardly blame just Pratt, it is not their job to keep the public informed about the state of the C Series program. I'm sure they kept BBD well aware of the problems as they learned of them. BBD is probably the ones who decided not to publicize the issues on their jet that already had publicized problems in the past, was already late, and already needed to be bailed out.

I don't blame just Pratt but they certainly don't get a free pass, either.

There is something wrong here: Both Swiss and Baltic have been operating their CS100 and CS300 for some time by now. Have they been hiding problems with the engines? I've been following LX CS100 operations on a daily basis and the reliability, as well as the altitude they've been cruising at are beyond any doubt. No comparison with what the neo operators have been reporting.

rbrunner wrote:

There is something wrong here: Both Swiss and Baltic have been operating their CS100 and CS300 for some time by now. Have they been hiding problems with the engines? I've been following LX CS100 operations on a daily basis and the reliability, as well as the altitude they've been cruising at are beyond any doubt. No comparison with what the neo operators have been reporting.

It was already posted in the thread that YL-CSA had both engines replaced
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=574685&start=1350#p19330653
Right after that in other sources was stated that Air Baltic and Swiss have to plan downtime for engine replacements. However, the issue was with combustion chamber lining
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-airlines-asked-to-perform-early-engine-checks-on-cseries--bombardier-2017-4
I just had to check it once again, so apparently its now two separate issues. Hopefully Korean Airlines will receive engines with both major issues fixed.

aerolimani wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

Unless BBD can pick up their delivery pace I doubt we'll see any more orders. There is clearly a major production delay issue. Why would anybody order an aircraft that looks likely to be significantly delayed?

As has already been much discussed in this thread, the problem is not with BBD. It's Pratt. The same problem with GTF production is also causing delays for the A320NEO.

Hold on a minute. Bombardier is also tweaking the CSeries airframe:

Bombardier has halted deliveries of the CSeries aircraft for two months to refine the production system and upgrade the aircraft configuration

Perhaps more is going on behind the scenes.

At least the PW1500G, on the CSeries, isn't having problems like the PW1100G on the A320NEO. So far, the PW1500G seems to be performing very well.

The PW1500G needs an upgrade as well:

Bombardier confirms CSeries engines require upgrades

KarelXWB wrote:

aerolimani wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

Unless BBD can pick up their delivery pace I doubt we'll see any more orders. There is clearly a major production delay issue. Why would anybody order an aircraft that looks likely to be significantly delayed?

As has already been much discussed in this thread, the problem is not with BBD. It's Pratt. The same problem with GTF production is also causing delays for the A320NEO.

Hold on a minute. Bombardier is also tweaking the CSeries airframe:

Bombardier has halted deliveries of the CSeries aircraft for two months to refine the production system and upgrade the aircraft configuration

Perhaps more is going on behind the scenes.

At least the PW1500G, on the CSeries, isn't having problems like the PW1100G on the A320NEO. So far, the PW1500G seems to be performing very well.

The PW1500G needs an upgrade as well:

Bombardier confirms CSeries engines require upgrades

The delays in production has already happened over the winter months, hence no deliveries in the early part of the year. I believe that, although the article does not say this, that the delays at the time were due to delays in engine deliveries. Bombardier used this downtime to tweak the assembly line and make some tweaks to the plane

KarelXWB wrote:

Hold on a minute. Bombardier is also tweaking the CSeries airframe:

Bombardier has halted deliveries of the CSeries aircraft for two months to refine the production system and upgrade the aircraft configuration

Perhaps more is going on behind the scenes.

The article is from early March.

As seen, the CSeries deliveries has since started again, even though the pace is slow

Hi all, anyone aware of BBD flight testing or customer-related flights through BTV?

I can see the approach out my office window and there's an all-white plane that could be a CS300 (I never catch a look at the nose) doing frequent approaches today and recently. There's a BBA callsign today on flightaware but it's just a business jet.

Delivery of the first CS300 to SWISS to occur tomorrow: May 26th.

Jetsouth wrote:

Delivery of the first CS300 to SWISS to occur tomorrow: May 26th.

26th or 27th ? Is it being delivered to ZRH or GVA ?

runway23 wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

Delivery of the first CS300 to SWISS to occur tomorrow: May 26th.

26th or 27th ? Is it being delivered to ZRH or GVA ?

The Swiss CS300 will depart to Geneva tomorrow (27th).

KarelXWB wrote:

runway23 wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

Delivery of the first CS300 to SWISS to occur tomorrow: May 26th.

26th or 27th ? Is it being delivered to ZRH or GVA ?

The Swiss CS300 will depart to Geneva tomorrow (27th).

Very neat. I'm booked on a Swiss CS300 GVA-LHR in July; would it be fair to expect that I will probably be flying on that air frame?

Leslieville wrote:

KarelXWB wrote:

runway23 wrote:

26th or 27th ? Is it being delivered to ZRH or GVA ?

The Swiss CS300 will depart to Geneva tomorrow (27th).

Very neat. I'm booked on a Swiss CS300 GVA-LHR in July; would it be fair to expect that I will probably be flying on that air frame?

The next CS300 for SWISS does not even appear to be in final assembly yet, so most likely their first CS300 is the one you are flying on....

So far this year, including the CS300 delivery to SWISS tomorrow, only 3 100's and 2 300's have been delivered. One for airBaltic is in flight testing, so most likely that one will be delivered in the next week or two, taking deliveries to 6. Two 100's for SWISS are in final assembly, and could possibly be delivered by the end of June and one 300 for Korean is in final assembly. So at most, there could be 9 deliveries by the end of June, half way through the year. Bombardier forecasts 35 deliveries for 2017, so they are well behind in their deliveries so far.