G'day and welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread # 83. In the previous thread, the following points were discussed/raised:

* Indonesia AirAsia applies for Cairns slots with the intent on operating flights to Denpasar/Bali
* Virgin Australia shifts flights to TBIT at LAX from December
* Australia - Indonesia bilaterals
* EY473 BNE-SIN RTO and "Mayday" call
* Construction of Virgin Australia's new pier at Perth Airport progressing well
* LAN to operate daily SYD-AKL-SCL services from May 2014
* Qantas 767-300 VH-OGV departs Australia for the final time
* Qantas under investigation for its misuse of its market power
* Virgin Australia challenged over $350 million capital raising
* QantasLink and Alliance commence closed charter services from Brisbane to Miles
* Virgin Australia commences Brisbane - Cloncurry RPT services with E190s
* China Southern goes daily at Brisbane
* BNE Airport passenger figures
* Problems with runway overlay at Newman Airport
* Tigerair to commence Sydney - Proserpine flights in April 2014
* Tigerair to suspend existing Sydney - Mackay flights and increase Melbourne - Mackay services
* Very lengthy discussion about QF and the Sales Act as well as VA capital raising
* Qantas confirms A330 refurbs will be undertaken at their Brisbane maintenance base
* Jetstar Hong Kong A320s
* Check-in details for a VA flight from MEL to MSY via SYD and LAX
* Canberra Airport and Government pushing for flights to Canberra
* British Airways Sydney route - performance
* Cathay Pacific operations to Australia
* Qantas to re-introduce A330s on Brisbane - Perth/Sydney from early to mid 2014
* Hawaiian Airlines announces Brisbane flights have exceeded expectations
* Qantas and China Southern sign wide-ranging codeshare agreement
* Qantas goes daily on BNE-LAX with re-introduced Monday service
* Passenger flows for QF's LAX-BNE flight and potential for flights from Canada to Brisbane
* Garuda Indonesia 777-300ERs

Australian Aviation Thread # 82

PERTH - AIR NEW ZEALAND & QANTAS

Air New Zealand is due to commence its new twice-weekly Perth to Christchurch flights tomorrow, using 767-300 equipment. This will be a seasonal (summer) service and may be extended should it be a success

Qantas also commences New Zealand flights from Perth this week, with seasonal A330 services to Auckland

BRINDABELLA AIRLINES

According to a release on the Qantas Agents website, Brindabella Airlines has suspended its Sydney to Orange flights until further notice. On a related note, the likes of Max Hazelton have put forward the prospect of the airline never returning to Orange given their apparent failure to attract adequate passenger numbers

It's also concerning to see rumours on PPRuNe (I know!) suggesting the services of Korda Mentha have been requested by Brindabella, however one would think that its may centre on advice on how to restructure or create a survival plan of attack moving forward - Problems at Brindabella?

TOOWOOMBA / BRISBANE WEST WELLCAMP AIRPORT

Wagners hosted an open day (late November) at their new Airport currently under construction to the west of the Toowoomba CBD. Initial forecasts projected 10,000 visitors would attend the open day, however this figure was far exceeded with some 16,500 visitors passing through the gates - source

Quoting QF175 (Reply 1): It's also concerning to see rumours on PPRuNe (I know!) suggesting the services of Korda Mentha have been requested by Brindabella, however one would think that its may centre on advice on how to restructure or create a survival plan of attack moving forward - Problems at Brindabella

I dont know much about PPRuNe but Im assuming its information could have reliability issues based on your qualification but doesnt sound good if half of what they are saing is true. Out of interest, what Brindabella aircraft do what routes? Looking at the route maps, there doesnt look to be a lot of overlap with Rex so if the worst does come to worse, it could be a boon for Rex. Though I'd assume that some of the routes would be thinner than the Rex fleet could profitably serve based on the presence of the Metroliners and the Jetstream 32s (Saab 340Bs are only marginally larger than the Jetstream 41s).

An interesting analysis/opinion piece on the China Southern/QF Partnership.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ns-from-cathay-pacific--sia-142010

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 3): An interesting analysis/opinion piece on the China Southern/QF Partnership. http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...42010

Thanks, a very interesting read, but one that does not fit the narrative of Qantas dumb/Virgin Australia smart.

The article clearly lays out how China Southern and Eastern can coexist in a relationship with Qantas. Qantas, under Joyce, seems quite willing to work with partners who have traditionally (or more recently) been competitors. I wonder if they have tried to reach out to Cathay Pacific since he took over.

Tigerair to open a Brisbane base, flying routes to Cairns, Adelaide and Canberra. Well done BNE!

Also, the new livery NZ 773ER (ZK-OKO) flew into BNE this morning, operating NZ135/136. First destination outside of LAX and AKL (IIRC)

From the previous thread:

Quoting zeke (Reply 191): Should be no reason not to operate them to SYD, they would have less than half the fuel load compared to London, it is only around a 6 hr flight.

Sorry I should have clarified that GA delayed putting the 77W on the SYD flight due to delaying LGW's start. Apparently GA had planned same plane service SYD-CGK-LGW, but once LGW was delayed they felt they didn't need the extra capacity for CGK-SYD.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5): Tigerair to open a Brisbane base, flying routes to Cairns, Adelaide and Canberra. Well done BNE!

Correction, not Canberra, Darwin instead.

Quoting http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/low-cost-carrier-tigerair-to-expand-australian-fleet-open-brisbane-base/story-e6frg95x-1226775051530#: TIGERAIR Australia is boosting its Australian fleet and opening a base in Brisbane expected to create 120 jobs in the Queensland capital. The addition of two extra Airbus A320s will see Tigerair personnel numbers rise by 150 overall and will add an extra 800,000 seats around Australian annually. It is the first phase of an expansion that will see the low-cost carrier double its fleet to at least 22 aircraft by 2018. The airline also announced three new routes from Brisbane - to Darwin, Cairns and Adelaide - with seats on sale from midday, as well as a new route between Sydney and Adelaide. "This is a significant milestone for our airline, which is embarking on its future Australian expansion as planned," Tigerair chief executive Rob Sharp said. "Today's announcement is great news for consumers and for the economy providing a welcome shot in the arm for domestic tourism across Australia. When the airline rebranded in July this year, we promised more choice for consumers." Mr Sharp said an extensive analysis of consumer demand had shown that budget travel options at Brisbane had lagged behind other major airports. He said historically budget travel accounted for 19 per cent of overall Brisbane Airport capacity compared with 33 per cent in Melbourne and 26 per cent in Sydney. "We are responding to this demand for budget travel," he said. "Our fares have been proven to stimulate markets and we strongly believe in the potential this new base presents. "From April 2014, Queensland will account for 59 per cent of our total capacity - 59 per cent of all Tigerair seats will touch Queensland from April next year - and is a critically important market for Tigerair." The airline, which has been significantly lagging other airlines in terms of on-time performance, is also launching an automated bag drop system. Brisbane Airport and the Queensland government both welcomed the new base. Brisbane Airport chief executive Julieanne Alroe said the new service would almost double the carrier's seat capacity into Brisbane. "The decision by Tigerair is an important recognition for Brisbane as a key aviation hub, allowing the airline to stimulate the low-cost travel market and help to grow existing and new key destinations and routes," she said. "It not only paves the way for future growth of the airline but provides significant flow-on benefits jobs, investment and opportunity that powers local, state and national growth." - See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi....dpuf

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 7): TIGERAIR Australia is boosting its Australian fleet and opening a base in Brisbane expected to create 120 jobs in the Queensland capital. The addition of two extra Airbus A320s will see Tigerair personnel numbers rise by 150 overall and will add an extra 800,000 seats around Australian annually.

Rob Sharp, another QF exile, is ramping up his pressure on JQ just as was expected when JB hired him. Will JQ add 4 A320s into its BNE base to maintain the famous 65% or will it let it ride and concentrate on making a profit?

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8): Rob Sharp, another QF exile, is ramping up his pressure on JQ just as was expected when JB hired him. Will JQ add 4 A320s into its BNE base to maintain the famous 65% or will it let it ride and concentrate on making a profit?

If anything this will cannibalise existing Virgin traffic so it will be more interesting to see how Virgin responds in terms of capacity. With JQ having a strong presence at OOL, I'd not be surprised to see QF start to add a bit more mainline capacity in down there to break down the market a bit more.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 9): If anything this will cannibalise existing Virgin traffic so it will be more interesting to see how Virgin responds in terms of capacity.

With VA holding control over TT, I suspect the new services aren't a surprise to VA...

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5): Tigerair

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5): Brisbane base

Woohooo         

This is EXCELLENT news!

I think I was about to go into cardiac arrest when I read this:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5): Canberra

But alas, twas not to be ...

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 7): Correction, not Canberra, Darwin instead.

 

The DRWBNE been retimed for VA to the early AM and TT replacing that service.
The SYDADL flight for VA removed to be replaced by TT at similar time.
The BNECNS flight for VA removed to be replaced by TT at similar time.


This shows that IMO a symbiotic relation between the two without washing out the market. And utilising TT for the times where a 1/2 full VA aircraft can be utilised on more $$ friendly sectors.

Quoting ThunderB (Reply 12): This shows that IMO a symbiotic relation between the two without washing out the market

You're probably right. What I think JB will avoid at all costs is VA/TT wingtip flying the same sectors. QF/JQ has ended up doing just this despite Dixon saying it would never happen.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):

Sorry, I am not sure if I misread the original article or the original article was wrong and later updated. Probably the former.

Quoting ThunderB (Reply 12):

If this is true then its no where near the 'big news' story it is being made out to be. Its really only one (I think?) extra service between the two airlines.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 13): QF/JQ has ended up doing just this despite Dixon saying it would never happen.

Very true.

JQ has been an interesting case study in being a defensive move at every turn for the QF Group.

AVV for example was to be the main base of JQ in Vic, only for TT to move into MEL and those plans went out the window very quickly. Now AVV is a tiny shell of what it once was for JQ.

Quoting ThunderB (Reply 12): The DRWBNE been retimed for VA to the early AM and TT replacing that service. The SYDADL flight for VA removed to be replaced by TT at similar time. The BNECNS flight for VA removed to be replaced by TT at similar time.

Seems like a smart route reallignment .Will be interesting to see what VA does with the capacity that these TT flights replace.

It is a big news story in relation to a new TT base being created. 150+ jobs is pretty good. The flow ons from that alone is good news for the industry.

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 10): With VA holding control over TT, I suspect the new services aren't a surprise to VA...

I didn't say they were. But it will be interesting to see if this actually stimulates new traffic or whether it divides up the existing traffic. WIth VA reducing service at the same time that TT is taking it over it's more a case of existing traffic being put onto a lower cost platform so it makes more money for VA.

Quoting ThunderB (Reply 16): It is a big news story in relation to a new TT base being created. 150+ jobs is pretty good. The flow ons from that alone is good news for the industry.

Yeah but if VA is reducing service and re-deploying it elsewhere that means jobs are being re-allocated away from BNE at the same time. So the net result is zero.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 17): Yeah but if VA is reducing service and re-deploying it elsewhere that means jobs are being re-allocated away from BNE at the same time. So the net result is zero.

Certainly where I was headed with my comment earlier.

It will all depend though if VA redeploy those aircraft and staff onto other BNE routes, or if this is moved around the network. The net benefit will still be there if VA keep the existing capacity in BNE.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11): I think I was about to go into cardiac arrest when I read this: Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5): Canberra But alas, twas not to be ... Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 7): Correction, not Canberra, Darwin instead.

+1

I still miss the $30 flights to MEL ...

Great news about the new Brisbane base and the creation of new jobs. It's great to also see Virgin's Brisbane - Darwin service move to a morning departure ex-Brisbane next year, with Tiger taking on the late night flight.

The other big news today in Brisbane is BAC's announcement of a $45m refurbishment of the International Terminal.

From what I can see the refurbishment looks amazing, it is unique, exudes spaciousness and is hip. It's pleasing to see BAC opting for a less conventional design that will set Brisbane apart from the rest.

Now if only they could do something for that abomination that is the Domestic Terminal! Man that needs an overhaul ASAP!

Source - AusBT

Quote: Brisbane Airport gets $45m 'tropical terminal' makeover Brisbane Airport's international terminal is set for a $45 million facelift inspired by 'tropical outdoor living'. That means high vaulted ceilings, wooden decking, water features, natural light flooding into the terminal and plenty of greenery – mostly live trees, ferns and shrubs but also a fake grass strip as a centrepiece of the waiting area. Work on the extensive facelift is due to begin in February 2014 and be finished by mid-2015. Unsurprisingly, there's also more space set aside for dining and retail. "Most airport terminals are alike, no matter where you are in the world,'' reflects Brisbane Airport Corporation CEO and managing director Julieanne Alroe. "Brisbane is about to break that mould and set a new world-best standard for terminal design.'' "When we've finished, our international terminal will be the most impressive and unique in Australia, and completely different from anywhere else in the world" Alroe says. It's the first makeover since the terminal opened 18 years ago. Last year saw 4.5 million international passengers pass through the airport but that number is expected to rise to 5.8 million by 2018, and exceed 7 million passengers by 2022.

Brisbane Airport is going to look fantastic when its finnished. Will they add even more gates and expand the apron for more aircraft?

Have been thinking about it, but whats the difference between Jetstar and the then Australian Airlines that got merged back into QF?
The way they have expanded JQ, why could they have not have done that with Australian Airlines imagine seeing a A330 or an A320 in that attractive orchard livery they had. Just seemed a waste of time to start that airline only to bring it back under Qantas and a few years later spend millions to set up JQ.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 20): Unsurprisingly, there's also more space set aside for dining and retail.

Hopefully this 'more space' will mean an increase to the size of the common centre area at BNE Intl terminal. The times that is is busy (in the AM with the three QF departures and everything else around that time) as I feel it gets quite cozy with the amount of people that at that time.

RE: The CAPA article on QF and China Southern... it says that the Australia-Hong Kong bilateral is too restrictive to allow VA to codeshare on CX services to China. Is this really the case?

I mean if it's a matter of Australian traffic connecting via HKG surely that's not the problem with the bilateral - rather the sticking point is that the likes of QF want the bilateral to be changed so that they can pick up HKG traffic and ferry it onwards to China?

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 22):

That would have been fantastic, purely from the fact that I love that livery. On the side about Jetstar v Australian Airlines, I really don't know enough about the latter and its history but wouldnt a major part of deciding not to do that be the unions? Having a separate company with new agreements would make it significantly easier to lower your cost base...

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 22): The way they have expanded JQ, why could they have not have done that with Australian Airlines imagine... Just seemed a waste of time to start that airline only to bring it back under Qantas and a few years later spend millions to set up JQ.

Because AO was NOT part of the Impulse Australian Workplace Agreement. Impulse was a lot older than AO and was a fully going concern, with that all important AWA. It was much cheaper to buy it than expand AO, basically because Impulse had aircraft in place, AO used QF aircraft & that AWA. Also remember JQ was domestic only for quite sometime before international ops started.

Gemuser

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 3):

Great read. Thanks for the link. I suspect the QF China strategy is going to be step by step as they work out the regulatory and relationship regimes in true Chinese style instead of one fell swoop like the EK partnership was.

Quoting klinit (Reply 24):

The problem is the bilateral, in that the beyond rights for any Australian carrier are quite limited. I think the problem with VA (or QF for that matter) coding on AUS-HKG is more of a competition issue.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 26):

AO was kind of a proto JQ International as I see it (or LCC training wheels for QF). They dipped their toe in the water but then realised they had to go further than AO to cut the costs. Impulse had come along which QF acquired and turned into JQ Domestic to respond to DJ, and then a little later Boston Consulting team they had in at the time painted the rest of the picture from there. Im not sure how much of this was concious planning and how much of it was just luck and happenstance, but think a dose of both is probably the case!

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 27): AO was kind of a proto JQ International as I see it (or LCC training wheels for QF).

Ummm, maybe. There is no doubt that when Dixon brought Impulse it was to take out a domestic competitor. For some time they did not know how to utilize Impulse effectively, hence the Air Connex stuffing around. It was only when Dixon realised that he already had the perfect LCC vehicle in the group was Impulse turned into JQ and built on the Impulse foundation.

Gemuser

QF have announced it is expecting a $250 million-$300 million loss for the 6 months to December, with yields down 3.5%. As a result it plans to cut at least 1000 jobs, and considering selling parts of the business (Fairfax speculates that this will be QFF).
Qantas to cut 1000 jobs
The fare war with VA is really hitting QF hard, given the almost constant QF fare sales not only in Y but also J.

[Edited 2013-12-04 16:20:03]

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 29): and considering selling parts of the business (Fairfax speculates that this will be QFF).

I doubt QFF would be sold but it would be interesting to see Jetstar spun out through a de-merger process with QF maintaining a cornerstone shareholding.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 31): I doubt QFF would be sold but it would be interesting to see Jetstar spun out through a de-merger process with QF maintaining a cornerstone shareholding

Thee FF should also be partly sold down. This whole process has to be about generating value for the shareholders and the current share price doesn't reflect the value of the FF scheme so it should be spun off (at least partly).

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 31): I doubt QFF would be sold but it would be interesting to see Jetstar spun out through a de-merger process with QF maintaining a cornerstone shareholding.

Wouldn't selling JQ (even keeping part ownership) mean that JQ would more aggressively compete with QF? I know that JQ & QF already do compete to some extent, but a JQ not controlled by QF would no doubt be a stronger competitor than it is today.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 32): Thee FF should also be partly sold down. This whole process has to be about generating value for the shareholders and the current share price doesn't reflect the value of the FF scheme so it should be spun off (at least partly).

If QFF were to be sold, QF would still profit from selling the seats to QFF? It is QFF who then sell the points to partners (like banks & Woolworths) at whatever rate they choose?

Hawaiian confirms 4 a week to BNE from 31 March 2014.

Looks like the rumour I posted above about Hawaiian Airlines has come true. The airline will increase Brisbane - Honolulu flights to four weekly from the end of March 2014. The airline will also revise the day of operations so that from 14 April 2014 flights will depart Tue / Thu / Sat / Sun.

Further details are available via the Hawaiian Airlines news page.

Doh, looks like I was too slow to post! Joys of posting on a mobile device!

[Edited 2013-12-04 18:28:28]

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 33): Wouldn't selling JQ (even keeping part ownership) mean that JQ would more aggressively compete with QF? I know that JQ & QF already do compete to some extent, but a JQ not controlled by QF would no doubt be a stronger competitor than it is today.

I've just had the joy (?!?) of watching Senator Xenaphon [live on ABC 24] claim that the Jetstar Asian franchises have never made a cent from flying operations, and that Jetstar Asia is only cashflow positive due to creative lease deals between Jetstar Asia and Jetstar Australia. I have no idea whether that is actually true or not (and more to the point, doubt that he does either) but if it is true that Jetstar is underperforming on a group wide basis, then it possibly does raise the question of whether it is delivering value to shareholders and the Qantas Group.

With very little information to hand, IMHO Jetstar Group should spin off the Asian franchises and charge a license fee to the independent companies to use the Jetstar brand (similar to what Virgin Group does) but keep the Australian franchise (probably including NZ) within the Qantas Group. Not only is the Australian franchise is profitable, it also delivers strategic benefits to the Qantas Group that a subsidiary in Japan doesn't necessarily do.

Just my 2c

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 36): I've just had the joy (?!?) of watching Senator Xenaphon [live on ABC 24]

I should add that Xenophon also called for the resignation of Joyce and the entire Qantas board, and urged the government to neither amend SOQA nor consider other forms of assistance to the airline until they've gone. You can therefore probably disregard anything he says on the subject  

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 34): Hawaiian confirms 4 a week to BNE from 31 March 2014.

Great news for BNE!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 36): then it possibly does raise the question of whether it is delivering value to shareholders and the Qantas Group.

Domestic used to be the powerhouse within the Qantas Group and now that it is seriously under attack the group as a whole has dipped into the red. If I was QF, and I'm not, but if I was I'd be doing the following:

1. Allowing the 767's to be retired without replacing them in the domestic market;
2. Keeping the pipeline of 738's in place and replacing all of the 734's along with maximising their daily flying hours;
3. Consolidating the trans-con operations by either a) cutting flights or b) starting to use the new 738's on selected transcons;
4. Keep capacity flat, just like at International, until yield start to improve.

There are also other things they can do like re-starting MEL-OOL and increasing SYD-OOL. That would free up some JQ capacity which can be deployed elsewhere to head off TT.

All in all what this highlights is they need to start focusing on themselves and not on the competition. In BNE and SYD there are limits to what VA/TT can do due to capacity constraints. Even in PER during peak hours the airport is full to bursting. If VA want to continue to lose money I saw let them, there is no reason for QF to continue to do so.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 38): replacing all of the 734

You'll have your wish on Feb 15, 2014 - only two months to go

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 38): That would free up some JQ capacity which can be deployed elsewhere to head off TT.

That's one reason that I don't think that Jetstar Australia should be spun off from Qantas Group: VAH has thrown down the gauntlet in the leisure market through TT. That is Jetstars market to lose, and it's better that they're fighting TT in places like MKY and CNS, than piling yet more capacity on the Golden Triangle.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 37): I should add that Xenophon also called for the resignation of Joyce and the entire Qantas board, and urged the government to neither amend SOQA nor consider other forms of assistance to the airline until they've gone. You can therefore probably disregard anything he says on the subject

He's always been particularly antagonistic to Jetstar - as many Australian airline folk and here - appear to be.

It baffles me.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39): That's one reason that I don't think that Jetstar Australia should be spun off from Qantas Group: VAH has thrown down the gauntlet in the leisure market through TT. That is Jetstars market to lose, and it's better that they're fighting TT in places like MKY and CNS, than piling yet more capacity on the Golden Triangle.

  

mariner

Quoting mariner (Reply 40): He's always been particularly antagonistic to Jetstar - as many Australian airline folk and here - appear to be.

He's still pissed QF pulled ADL-SIN.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 36): With very little information to hand, IMHO Jetstar Group should spin off the Asian franchises and charge a license fee to the independent companies to use the Jetstar brand (similar to what Virgin Group does) but keep the Australian franchise (probably including NZ) within the Qantas Group. Not only is the Australian franchise is profitable, it also delivers strategic benefits to the Qantas Group that a subsidiary in Japan doesn't necessarily do.

Perhaps if Qantas was to separate off Jetstar, but maintain effective control, then it could tap additional sources of capital whilst ensuring that it doesn't compete/complements their offerings. Basically operate it as does the overseas franchises. It would still need to be majority Australian owned in order to fly its overseas operations, unless they were split off again ala Virgin.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 41): He's still pissed QF pulled ADL-SIN.

Ahhhhhhh - thank you. I had forgot - all politics is local.  

mariner

Enough is enough, JQ is the drive behind the losses!
This 65% domestic market share crap getting out of control. Virgin was a LCC originally & that is no longer the case. Concentrate more on QF mainline by bringing over the B787's and allow JQ fly on its own merit without the support of QF and then see how well they perform.

EK8413

To me, it seems that Jetstar's massive expansion into Asia really is a drag on its earnings. So much capital seems to be pumped that way at present, including on the HK venture that is taking forever to get off the ground. Just where those costs are showing up on he groups books who knows.

I agree that selling a share of JQ ventures across the region may well be a better ploy than trying to sell off the Australian ops. There likely won't be as much appetite to invest in JQ than in thue Asian ventures, where investor capital seems easier to come from.

Added to that, selling off the Australian ops makes it more likely that JQ will attack the QF mainline ops strongly, which may not go down too well, and bne a counter productive move (ie short term capital, long term competition)

The story in the Herald Sun today about the likely withdrawal of JQ flights from AVV was a predictable move from them. As soon as you see them release such news you know there's an underlying agenda.

Quoting QF175 (Thread starter): * LAN to operate daily SYD-AKL-SCL services from May 2014

Starting on 17DEC13, LATAM Airlines will operate the SCL-AKL-SYD route on a daily basis. During April, the SCL-AKL-SYD route will operate 4x weekly due to the maintenance schedule of the A343s in the fleet. From May2014 onwards, the SCL-AKL-SYD route will continue to operate on a daily basis. LATAM has not ruled out adding additional flights on the route depending on demand (LA802/LA803)...

[Edited 2013-12-04 23:02:31]

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 45):

The whole Avalon thing is more rent-seeking from QF. They are basically asking the Victorian Govt to fund their AVV operations the state governments should wake up and say we are not funding your business Queensland has already given QF huges undisclosed concessions to get the maintenance bases there governments don't exist to subsidise private businesses.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 47): The whole Avalon thing is more rent-seeking from QF. They are basically asking the Victorian Govt to fund their AVV operations the state governments should wake up and say we are not funding your business Queensland has already given QF huges undisclosed concessions to get the maintenance bases there governments don't exist to subsidise private businesses.

With JQ moving into a new terminal at MEL in 2015, they are in a position of power here really.

At this point in time, every deal that is struck always has concessions in whatever form they take. The 'new' Jetstar maintenance base at MEL (the old QF hanger) would have also likely seen govt incentives, as was reportedly the case with TT's MEL HQ and DJ's (now VA) BNE HQ at the time they decided. Its part of the way business deals operate, like it or not.

AVV is nothing more than a destination, not a bsae at this stage. Without a rail connection, its just not competitive, and Geelong unfortunately does not generate significant loads or yields on its own to fill the amount of capacity that current goes into the airport.

As was mentioned in the article today, AVV airport has advised JQ that decreasing frequency to increase yields may well be the best move. Why not just do it? Sure, unfortunately some jobs may be lost, but a tleast it keeps the majority, and offers a right sized service to the area. In the end though, with QF reporting that up too 1000 jobs may go (inc. the 300 AVV maintenance workers in that number), this will likely see it just cut and run.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 45): To me, it seems that Jetstar's massive expansion into Asia really is a drag on its earnings. So much capital seems to be pumped that way at present, including on the HK venture that is taking forever to get off the ground. Just where those costs are showing up on he groups books who knows.

I wonder how much the Jetstar Hong Kong gamble is costing QF...???


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Photo © Dn280


EK413

Quoting EK413 (Reply 49): I wonder how much the Jetstar Hong Kong gamble is costing QF...???

Likely a very significant amount. Might be best to let that idea slip and move onto something else.

With Jetstar Japan also struggling, and The Jetstar Pacific and Asia airlines hardly financial superpowers, its not a pretty picture.