2175301
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Mon May 22, 2017 10:28 am

KarelXWB wrote:
It's clear that they will aim at FAA/EASA certification from the beginning.


This is not the first time the Chinese have made that claim. I believe that they made it for the C919 as well... and then dropped the international certification when they realized how much work it would be.

As with many such announcements from China and Russia... I'll believe it when I see it actually happening - regardless of the proposed budget.

Have a great day,
 
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BaconButty
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Mon May 22, 2017 10:55 am

CRAIC? Do they not google these acronyms to be on the safe side? Sounds like fun, to be sure.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Mon May 22, 2017 12:06 pm

Dutchy wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
It's clear that they will aim at FAA/EASA certification from the beginning.


Doesn't it need to be in order to fly international route to Europe and America?


No, only Russian/Chinese certification is needed for Russian/Chinese airlines.
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drgmobile
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Re: RE: Comac Considering 300-seat Widebody

Mon May 22, 2017 2:53 pm

scbriml wrote:
This is hardly a big surprise. However, one can't help thinking that maybe they need to get the C919 into reliable airline service before they take the next big step. I also have serious doubts as to how well this would be received by airlines outside China?


...And any country the People's Republic is engaged with for foreign investment and economic development, such as in Africa or along the One Belt, One Road corridors. The latter has 68 countries signed up to it:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2017/05/economist-explains-11
http://www.economist.com/news/china/21701505-chinas-foreign-policy-could-reshape-good-part-world-economy-our-bulldozers-our-rules
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Mon May 22, 2017 8:34 pm

BaconButty wrote:
CRAIC? Do they not google these acronyms to be on the safe side? Sounds like fun, to be sure.


Depends if its good craic or bad craic.... :)
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue May 23, 2017 12:06 pm

Aesma wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
It's clear that they will aim at FAA/EASA certification from the beginning.


Doesn't it need to be in order to fly international route to Europe and America?


No, only Russian/Chinese certification is needed for Russian/Chinese airlines.


They don't want to sell it to other countries?
 
toxtethogrady
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue May 23, 2017 12:09 pm

The pictures in Aviation Week show something that looks like a rather ungainly attempt at a B777-200. With an entry into service in 2027, won't it be an outdated aircraft?
 
akelley728
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue May 23, 2017 12:11 pm

BaconButty wrote:
CRAIC? Do they not google these acronyms to be on the safe side? Sounds like fun, to be sure.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craic

OMG I had no idea! :)
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue May 23, 2017 12:12 pm

Here's how it should look like:

Image
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue May 23, 2017 8:37 pm

Wayfarer515 wrote:
Let's see in about 10 years time which country's airplanes we are flying in, I will laugh my ass off when all of you are boarding COMACs or Irkuts.


Yeah, let's see how many airlines will actually CHOOSE to buy the aircraft.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue May 30, 2017 9:37 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
Wayfarer515 wrote:
Let's see in about 10 years time which country's airplanes we are flying in, I will laugh my ass off when all of you are boarding COMACs or Irkuts.


Yeah, let's see how many airlines will actually CHOOSE to buy the aircraft.

Russian and Chinese airlines to start with I think.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue May 30, 2017 10:27 pm

747megatop wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
Wayfarer515 wrote:
Let's see in about 10 years time which country's airplanes we are flying in, I will laugh my ass off when all of you are boarding COMACs or Irkuts.


Yeah, let's see how many airlines will actually CHOOSE to buy the aircraft.

Russian and Chinese airlines to start with I think.


Keyword was "choose"
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Wed May 31, 2017 4:34 am

I would foresee slow acceptance by the Western world of any Chinese or Russian built aircraft, simply because Western airlines have learned that it is poor business practice to kill your customers, and Chinese airliners in particular have no proven track record. The Russian record is mixed, but with enough bad in it to warrant some reluctance. The big advantage that they have is their domestic markets, especially the Chinese, which will give them a chance to establish a track record. If they can produce an airliner that goes on to establish comparable safety and economic records as Boeing and Airbus planes, then the floodgates will open (assuming they sell for less.) However, I am dubious that that will happen for two reasons. First, the reason flying has become so safe is that the American regulators in particular have managed historically (recent history raises some serious questions, particularly with TWA800) to keep politics out of safety issues, and have focused on what really caused crashes regardless of whose ox got gored. This was coupled with everyone involved cooperating with the understanding that safety was good for everybody and was more important than political or even economic considerations. The other part of it is the efficiency of modern airliners, which has come about after long and arduous effort by all concerned. This has also been largely free of political influence. But it also required ruthless dedication to the desired end, which is airliners which are not only safe but efficient. The danger for Russia and China is that separating politics from anything is much more difficult than it is in the West, and the urge to cut corners is strong, especially where the money involved is so great. One of the main reasons that the DC-10/MD-11 has a much worse safety record than any contemporary jetliners is that McDonnell took over the design midway, and they had never built a commercial airliner before. Boeing, Lockheed, Douglas, and Convair had all learned (the hard way) that when you design a commercial airliner, you make it as safe as you can, PERIOD. McDonnell had not learned that, and they overruled the Douglas engineers. So compromises were made in the DC-10 design that came back and bit hard. Airbus apparently got enough of this culture from the legacy manufacturers that they drew from that their planes have never had similar problems, and have been as safe as any. But I question whether the Chinese in particular are capable of a similar outcome, because politics dictates far more there than it does here.
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c933103
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Wed May 31, 2017 5:00 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Here's how it should look like:

Image

Image is from http://www.comac.cc/cpyzr/kuanti/ which have several more pictures too.
And seems like Sukhoi is part of the director board? http://www.comac.cc/xwzx/gsxw/201705/23 ... 4001.shtml
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Wed May 31, 2017 5:17 am

http://www.thecover.cn/recommend/334659
A Chinese media recently interviewed a member of Comac on the C929
It said the current schedule for first flight is 2020 but with possibility to be delayed... but didn't they said earlier that it would take 7 years from start to first flight?
And when the reporter ask him will C929 have two aisles or two floors, it confirmed what we all know about the C929 will be a twin aisle aircraft, but for two floors he commented it is not so good and thus they are currently not used.
When the reporter ask them how are the work distributed with Russian side, they said it would be joint design and joint production and they are currently talking about exactly how are they going to divide their works and it will take long time to discuss on it.
When the reporter ask them how many people do their team have, he answered that their safety design team have 22 members and their average age is less than 30.
It also mentioned Comac have a workshop which is responsible for future R&D on technologies that probably won't be commercialized in forseeable future but are preparing
for like C939 and C949.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:38 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
747megatop wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:

Yeah, let's see how many airlines will actually CHOOSE to buy the aircraft.

Russian and Chinese airlines to start with I think.


Keyword was "choose"

The actual keyword is "GEOPOLITICS". I know where you are going with "choose". Geopolitics undeniably plays a big factor in airline deals in a number of regions of the world.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:44 pm

747megatop wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
747megatop wrote:
Russian and Chinese airlines to start with I think.


Keyword was "choose"

The actual keyword is "GEOPOLITICS". I know where you are going with "choose". Geopolitics undeniably plays a big factor in airline deals in a number of regions of the world.


Well "Geopolitics" wasn't in the comment in question, hehe. I fully understand what you're talking about though.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:42 pm

http://news.163.com/air/16/1105/14/C548 ... 181O6.html
This news report was from last year when the C929 model was shown... Now I come back to read it, it have some interesting details...
- The article apparently try to calm readers by saying there are no generation gap between 929 and 350/787.. But consider it'll be another decade before its EIS, is this statement really calming?
- The article have lots of figures of unknown origin for the C929, including:
-- Fuelssage width: 5.9182m
-- Cabin width: 5.588m
-- length: 63.4
-- wingspan: 61
-- height: 18
-- distance between main landing gear: 11
-- distance between front and main landing gear: 27
-- typical capacity: 291 (two-class)
-- range: 12000km (payload 28.84t)
-- MTOW: 234
-- MLW: 190
- The article also mentioned that the C929 applied supercritical wing with a winglet similar to 350's scimitar winglet while different from 787, and the aerodynamic design of the wing design is better than A330 and of same generation as A350 and 787
- C929 planned to use up to 51% composite material with proportion for Aluminium alloy and Al-Li alloy reduced to ~20%
- It also mentioned a noteworthy design of C929 is the use of multi electric techonology like 787 which replaced APU and other energy source for sub system with electrical generator
- And for nartional variant of the engine, the article said:
-- First of all they will equip CJ1000-A (SF-A) engine onto C919 in 2022 with performance similar to CFM56
-- Then in 2026 they will put CJ1000-B (SF-B) onto extended range variant of C919, with similar performance to Leap-1C
-- Work on wide body engine CJ-2000 series is to be done in parallel with planned completion date for technology pre-research at 2020, test unit reach target at 2022, and 2025-2030 for certification.
--- And the CJ-2000 series base thrust level would be 75000lb with derated and uprated version ranging between 70000-82000 lb
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:51 pm

http://news.wenweipo.com/2017/06/20/IN1706200033.htm
On the other hand, some up to date news: last month when they form the CRAIC, they have preliminary defined performance index of the new aircraft and aims to reduce direct operational cost by over 10% and recently the project will be turned to initial design phase and will start asking system and equipment suppliers.
Also, there are some reports that suggest the China-Ukraine codevelop engine Ai-38 which is developed from D-18T could possibly be used to power C929.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:59 pm

As the ARJ21 & C919 have shown us, the Chinese certainly have the drive.

But as the ARJ21 & C919 have shown us, execution has consistently come up far short of what is needed.

Drive & Ambition are important, but skills are too.
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:04 pm

Well, they are slowly replicating the DC-9, which should be in service about 50 years after the original. Guess it's time to take on the A346, with some timely updates. I wish them luck! Chinese engineers seem to be able to copy brilliantly, but simply cannot innovate on their own. Perhaps one day.
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:13 pm

MTOW at 234t is clearly A330 territory.
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:08 pm

c933103 wrote:
- C929 planned to use up to 51% composite material with proportion for Aluminium alloy and Al-Li alloy reduced to ~20%

Any idea if the 51% is by weight or by volume? If the former, it would be in the ballpark with the 787 & A350.
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:17 pm

neutrino wrote:
c933103 wrote:
- C929 planned to use up to 51% composite material with proportion for Aluminium alloy and Al-Li alloy reduced to ~20%

Any idea if the 51% is by weight or by volume? If the former, it would be in the ballpark with the 787 & A350.

Not explicitly mentioned but the article compared it with the percentage-by-weight figure for 350 and 787.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:58 pm

georgiaame wrote:
Well, they are slowly replicating the DC-9, which should be in service about 50 years after the original. Guess it's time to take on the A346, with some timely updates. I wish them luck! Chinese engineers seem to be able to copy brilliantly, but simply cannot innovate on their own. Perhaps one day.


It is only a DC-9 fuselage and empennage, the engines and wings are new. For the DC-9/MD-80 family, they managed to get home-built versions of that one into service all the way back in 1987, with FAA certification and all.

You will find that the C-929 is not in any way similar to the A340. It is a twin-jet, and if you absolutely must make silly claims as to the heritage of it, then blame them for "stealing" the designs of the 787 and A350.

You will also find that throughout recent Chinese history, the decision to base aircraft designs off existing non-Chinese designs was a deliberate decision to save costs, not a lack of ability to innovate. There were plenty of home-grown prototypes, but finishing development of them was deemed too expensive for a relatively poor country such as China.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:50 pm

Russia and China are to develop their own engine for the C929.

"Rostec State Corporation, the Russian industrial conglomerate co-developing a long-haul widebody aircraft with China, has said the two countries will develop their own engines for the project, with the apparent longer-term aim of breaking the duopoly enjoyed by General Electric and Rolls-Royce."

http://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/ar ... ed-engines

I wonder why they don't just add China to Powerjet and produce the engine under that banner.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:41 pm

Small update on the specifications:

Some 51 percent of the aircraft will be made of composite materials, which is expected to make the C929 economical and efficient.

The jet could have four possible seating layouts: 280 seats in three classes; 291 seats in two classes; 310 seats in tight three classes; or 416 seats in an all-economy class, said Chen Yingchun, general designer of the C929.

The new aircraft will mainly target China, Russia and other Asia-Pacific markets.


Article
https://eturbonews.com/165608/boeing-ai ... r-aircraft
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2175301
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:19 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Small update on the specifications:

Some 51 percent of the aircraft will be made of composite materials, which is expected to make the C929 economical and efficient.

The jet could have four possible seating layouts: 280 seats in three classes; 291 seats in two classes; 310 seats in tight three classes; or 416 seats in an all-economy class, said Chen Yingchun, general designer of the C929.

The new aircraft will mainly target China, Russia and other Asia-Pacific markets.


Article
https://eturbonews.com/165608/boeing-ai ... r-aircraft


That article does not inspire confidence in myself that this will ever result in an effective and competitive wide-body aircraft. Imagine... Every 3 years that the project gets a new CEO with their own vision for the project, alternating countries. Sounds like a recipe for disaster from a project management standpoint. That is not how effective long term projects are done.

So here is my projection. The project is projected to take 10 years. I see 15-20 years. It is based off of the B787 and A350 designs... Which will have been eclipsed by substantial upgrades or replacements by the time this Comac airliner gets into major production.

But, it's a great political announcement...

Have a great day,
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:02 pm

2175301 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Small update on the specifications:

Some 51 percent of the aircraft will be made of composite materials, which is expected to make the C929 economical and efficient.

The jet could have four possible seating layouts: 280 seats in three classes; 291 seats in two classes; 310 seats in tight three classes; or 416 seats in an all-economy class, said Chen Yingchun, general designer of the C929.

The new aircraft will mainly target China, Russia and other Asia-Pacific markets.


Article
https://eturbonews.com/165608/boeing-ai ... r-aircraft


That article does not inspire confidence in myself that this will ever result in an effective and competitive wide-body aircraft. Imagine... Every 3 years that the project gets a new CEO with their own vision for the project, alternating countries. Sounds like a recipe for disaster from a project management standpoint. That is not how effective long term projects are done.

So here is my projection. The project is projected to take 10 years. I see 15-20 years. It is based off of the B787 and A350 designs... Which will have been eclipsed by substantial upgrades or replacements by the time this Comac airliner gets into major production.

But, it's a great political announcement...

Have a great day,

The article does say it is the chairman which rotates every three years, for what it's worth. Yes definitely a risk of drifting around national interests, but then again there was another aircraft manufacturer in another part of the world some years ago which was established as a multinational consortium by government interests, and it managed to overcome those issues, and eventually move to a more streamlined corporate structure after about three decades, by which stage it had become the second largest airliner manufacturer in the world, and was very much nipping at the heels of the largest. It seemed to work ok for them, so I would say that the multinational structure in itself doesn't have to be a terminal stumbling block.

V/F
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop C929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:16 pm

The chinese article also mentioned that:
The four aforementioned seating layout are for the baseline model.
C929 will have Supercritical sweep low wing, retractable tricycle type landing gear, regular tail wing, two underwing turbofan engine,length 63.07m, wingspan 61m, height 17.91m. Fuelsage height 6.068m and fuelsage width 5.920m, between A350 and B787.
Example configs are 2-4-2 or 3-3-3 for economy class, 2-3-2 for business class and 2-2-2 for first/business class.
The 51% Composite material does not include titanium alloy. Titanium will have another 15%
The weight of a C929 will equal to 6 ARJ21 or 3 C919.
And there are also discussions about what will Comac do after C929, a 3-aisle aircraft, or a 2-deck-2-aisle aircraft, or a supersonic one, or some other innovative form. And after supersonic there's also a suggested route of going aerospace and develop cosmos airliner
And it is said that the C929 project is expected to issue RFP by the end of this year and they expect GE and RR to participate
They hope new generation of engine can cut fuel burn by 15% and emission by 50%, but they also said that the most important point is to have an advanced, reliable and stable engine with early available time, instead of the best from bleeding edge technology
 
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop C929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:22 pm

c933103 wrote:
And there are also discussions about what will Comac do after C929, a 3-aisle aircraft, or a 2-deck-2-aisle aircraft, or a supersonic one, or some other innovative form. And after supersonic there's also a suggested route of going aerospace and develop cosmos airliner

That does sound rather similar to the hyperbole that surrounded the initial descriptions of the C919 as China's first Super-Duper-Hyper-Ultra-Jumbo-Jet.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop C929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:42 am

CRAIC held the naming ceremony for the aircraft, in the ceremony they announced the the aircraft will be named as CR-929.
C mean China and R mean Russia, 9 mean longevity in term of the mutual cooperation, as well as the aircraft lifespan. 2 mean Joint-cooperation by both couhntries.
and three proposed variants will be numbered as -500/600/700. (-500 for the shortened variant, -600 for the standard 12000km/280seats variant, -700 for the lengthened variant)
According to https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 29-441648/ , the use of -500/600/700 are continuation of MC21's -200/300/400 (so how about the proposed MC21-500/600?)
And it's also said that CRAIC announced a logo for the company but I can't find an image for that..
Last edited by c933103 on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop C929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:42 am

Aircraft will be named CR929 instead of C929.

See https://twitter.com/UAC_Russia/status/9 ... 1779319808

Image
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:32 am

http://world.huanqiu.com/article/2017-09/11298507.html
Some interview...
They said the cabin width can allow 3-3-3 18" seat, provide better comfort to passenger than 787, and the seat width will also be common with C919
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:12 pm

Slug71 wrote:
Russia and China are to develop their own engine for the C929.

"Rostec State Corporation, the Russian industrial conglomerate co-developing a long-haul widebody aircraft with China, has said the two countries will develop their own engines for the project, with the apparent longer-term aim of breaking the duopoly enjoyed by General Electric and Rolls-Royce."

http://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/ar ... ed-engines

I wonder why they don't just add China to Powerjet and produce the engine under that banner.

Recently it was reported that some Chinese professionals will join the Powerjet project (the collaboration that was reported a few days back), however China is also developing their own engine and is apparently joining force with Ukraince to do so which obviously is not going to involve Russia. And no matter PD-35 or Chinese's own engine, they most likely won't make it to the EIS of CR929, and thus CR929 will most likely be offered with Western engines at least at the beginning.
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:29 pm

c933103 wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
Russia and China are to develop their own engine for the C929.

"Rostec State Corporation, the Russian industrial conglomerate co-developing a long-haul widebody aircraft with China, has said the two countries will develop their own engines for the project, with the apparent longer-term aim of breaking the duopoly enjoyed by General Electric and Rolls-Royce."

http://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/ar ... ed-engines

I wonder why they don't just add China to Powerjet and produce the engine under that banner.

Recently it was reported that some Chinese professionals will join the Powerjet project (the collaboration that was reported a few days back), however China is also developing their own engine and is apparently joining force with Ukraince to do so which obviously is not going to involve Russia. And no matter PD-35 or Chinese's own engine, they most likely won't make it to the EIS of CR929, and thus CR929 will most likely be offered with Western engines at least at the beginning.

Which Western engines? From what I've heard China demanded technology transfer and all 3 major engine companies politely declined.


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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:04 pm

lightsaber wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
Russia and China are to develop their own engine for the C929.

"Rostec State Corporation, the Russian industrial conglomerate co-developing a long-haul widebody aircraft with China, has said the two countries will develop their own engines for the project, with the apparent longer-term aim of breaking the duopoly enjoyed by General Electric and Rolls-Royce."

http://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/ar ... ed-engines

I wonder why they don't just add China to Powerjet and produce the engine under that banner.

Recently it was reported that some Chinese professionals will join the Powerjet project (the collaboration that was reported a few days back), however China is also developing their own engine and is apparently joining force with Ukraince to do so which obviously is not going to involve Russia. And no matter PD-35 or Chinese's own engine, they most likely won't make it to the EIS of CR929, and thus CR929 will most likely be offered with Western engines at least at the beginning.

Which Western engines? From what I've heard China demanded technology transfer and all 3 major engine companies politely declined.


Lightsaber

I don't think such thing have happened in the past? And as I mentioned in another post, they're going to issue an RFP on engine choice later this year and they expect GE and RR to participate. (Excluded PW as PW doesn't seems to be developing new engine for WB aircrafts
 
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Re: Comac Considering C929 300-seat Widebody

Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:03 pm

c933103 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Recently it was reported that some Chinese professionals will join the Powerjet project (the collaboration that was reported a few days back), however China is also developing their own engine and is apparently joining force with Ukraince to do so which obviously is not going to involve Russia. And no matter PD-35 or Chinese's own engine, they most likely won't make it to the EIS of CR929, and thus CR929 will most likely be offered with Western engines at least at the beginning.

Which Western engines? From what I've heard China demanded technology transfer and all 3 major engine companies politely declined.


Lightsaber

I don't think such thing have happened in the past? And as I mentioned in another post, they're going to issue an RFP on engine choice later this year and they expect GE and RR to participate. (Excluded PW as PW doesn't seems to be developing new engine for WB aircrafts

China always broadcasts conditions ahead of time.

As to Pratt, yea. . I wouldn't pick them for early EIS either... :(

Years before an RFO engine vendors must be brought in. The only exceptions are the MAX and business jets
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:11 am

So they managed to decide on a definitive name.

Progress !
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:41 am

So it's an A330-300 with larger winglets.
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:20 pm

Couple additional renders of the presentation:

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:29 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
So it's an A330-300 with larger winglets.


And the nose profile looks like a mashup of the A350/787's.
Looks good though.
 
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:19 am

Varsity1 wrote:
So it's an A330-300 with larger winglets.

So its a DC-3 with enlarged & lengthened fuselage, heavily reinforced undercarriage, modernized aero, latest engine tech, etc,etc, etc. yadda yadda yadda. :roll:
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:29 pm

New milestone has been reached:

CR929 program passes critical design review

The Board of Directors of China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corporation (CRAIC), the joint venture between Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and China’s COMAC, has approved the critical design review (CDR) of the widebody long-haul airliner family dubbed CR 929, to be designed jointly by the two countries. UAC confirms that the program has passed the Gate 2 milestone and is now moving into the next development phase.

The board also approved the associated organizational structure and regulatory documents, including CRAIC’s statute and budget. The company was registered in China in late March 2017, and was inaugurated by the Chinese and Russian partners in Shanghai in May.


Sales forecast is projected at 800 to 1,000 aircraft by 2045.
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:37 pm

Wind tunnel testing has also commenced:

A 1:26 model of the CR929, the Chinese-Russian widebody project, was in the wind tunnel in Zhukovsky earlier this month. Scaled up wingspan is only 55.9 meters, which is a surprise. Previous reports showed 2-6m wider.


https://twitter.com/FG_STrim/status/935095430223839232
http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/news/3455 ... mNjag7bbMA

Image

Image
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:56 pm

Last but not least, an engine RFP has been issued.

A new milestone for the #CR929 program as it officially released the RFP for its propulsion system. The RFP includes general guidelines and requirements for potential suppliers of the aircraft's engines and other important components.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 29-444461/

Developers of a joint Russian-Chinese widebody aircraft have issued a request for proposal for the jet's propulsion system.

The RFP for the propulsion system, which consists of the engine and nacelle, was issued to suppliers on 21 December by the China-Russia Commercial Aircraft Corporation (CRAIC). Interested suppliers will submit their proposal by 30 May 2018.


Initially the CR929 will be powered by a Western engine. Later, in 2027, the yet to be developed PD-35 powerplant will be added as engine choice.
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:06 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Wind tunnel testing has also commenced:

A 1:26 model of the CR929, the Chinese-Russian widebody project, was in the wind tunnel in Zhukovsky earlier this month. Scaled up wingspan is only 55.9 meters, which is a surprise. Previous reports showed 2-6m wider.


https://twitter.com/FG_STrim/status/935095430223839232
http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/news/3455 ... mNjag7bbMA


The wind tunnel model doesn't seem to incorporate the winglets/saberlets/whatever-they-are-calling-it-now. I think that explains the difference in the wingspan, or at least part of the difference, if not the full difference. Consider:
Aircraft------------------- Wingspan w/o winglets [m]---------- Wingspan w/ winglets [m]----------- Increase in wingspan [m]
737NG ---------------------- 34.32 ----------------------------------------- 35.79 -------------------------------- 1.47
A32X ------------------------ 34.10 ----------------------------------------- 35.80 -------------------------------- 1.70
757 -------------------------- 38.0 ------------------------------------------- 41.1 ---------------------------------- 3.1
767 -------------------------- 47.6 ------------------------------------------- 50.9 ---------------------------------- 3.3
777-300 -> ER* ---------- 60.93 ------------------------------------------ 64.80 -------------------------------- 3.87
So, the absence of winglets might explain part of the difference in wingspan. The rest were probably due to design changes from the previous iteration.

[Sources: Wikipedia and this Boeing document: http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/faqs/wingletspans.pdf]
* For the 777-300 to the 777-300ER, I included the addition of the raked wingtips.
 
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:33 am

So basically they plan to sell a couple of hundreds with western engines, then the rest with an home-grown engine.

Are they certain they will actually get an offer from a western manufacturer ?
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Re: Comac, UAC to develop CR929 300-seat widebody aircraft

Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:25 am

Aesma wrote:
So basically they plan to sell a couple of hundreds with western engines, then the rest with an home-grown engine.

Are they certain they will actually get an offer from a western manufacturer ?


? And why wouldn't western manufacturers want to sell a couple hundred (maybe) more of their products for basically no additional development costs? e.g. Leap 1-C on the C919
 
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CRAIC CR929 discussion thread

Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:11 am

If they do a copy of a 757 they will get orders through the roof. Put me in charge.
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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