bennett123
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Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:19 am

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Olympic%20Airlines-stored-a340.htm

Has there been any news of these aircraft or interest in them since 2009.

Otherwise, I assume that the breakers will get them eventually.
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:48 am

I see them moved around periodically. Recently, about 5 were parked on the taxiway. Usually 3-4 are occupying space at the remote terminal. Aside from that, I have no idea what is in store for them. I do understand that they are all assets of the Greek Government.

Tom
Paper makes an airplane fly
 
na
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:00 am

These planes are too young for scrapping. That the Greek Government owns them might explain a lot as that is not a very effective institution and certainly has done a lot of irrational stuff at least until very recently.
 
Someone83
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:15 pm

Because no-one will buy them? AFAIK this theme was mentioned in a thread a while back, and think it was braught up that these birds are not airworthy at the moment due to maintenance reason and lack of maintenance dokumentation?

[Edited 2011-10-18 01:36:01 by SA7700]
 
Independence76
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:42 pm

I'm curious if OA will eventually buy one or two of them back for long-haul operations, but I wouldn't make any serious speculation into this for at least a few years...

I'm actually somewhat surprised HT didn't buy them back when they added two A340-300's to their fleet for JFK ops. Perhaps Gulf Air gave them a better price?

[Edited 2011-10-17 09:45:08]
 
sunilgupta
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:07 pm

I was there last week and all four of them were still sitting there looking very faded.
Sunil
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:13 pm

The CX birds went to Hainan, not the desert.


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There's plenty of demand for good A340s as long as they aren't A342s or pre-X A343s. I have also heard that there are severe maintenance and recordkeeping issues with the Olympic birds and that is why they continue to sit.

[Edited 2011-10-18 01:36:52 by SA7700]
 
alitis
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:15 pm

Saw them all lined up a few weeks ago all in stored condition. The top of the tails were covered with some sort of metalic tape, what is up there that needs to be protected?

-alitis
 
ORDJOE
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:35 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 11):
The CX birds went to Hainan, not the deser

Good thing they were pulled out, I have seen a photo of VCV or one of those graveyards on this cite with those CX birds. I guess the demand is stronger than I thought. I thought between the A33X and the 77W the A340 was getting clobbered.
 
CPHFF
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:28 pm

I'm a regular ar ATH and I have often wondered the same thing.

On 15 SEP, 3 of them were parked at the Satelilte Teminal. One was actually connected to the Jetway and there was a lot of movement around this Aircraft (sorry, didn't get the reg.). 5-6 guys moving around, and the engine covers on number 1 & 2 engine was open. It almost looked like they were preparing for flight. Sad to see these birds fade away in the hot Greek sun (next to the 742's of Hellenic Imperial)

What happened to the 6-7 old Olympic faded ATR's that used to be lined up on the taxiways?

PL
:D Never underestimate the power of ignorance
 
olympic707
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:54 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 4):
these birds are not airworthy at the moment due to maintenance reason and lack of maintenance dokumentation?
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
I have also heard that there are severe maintenance and recordkeeping issues with the Olympic birds and that is why they continue to sit.

Olympic Airways / Airlines has one of the best maintenance in the world. Their safety record proves it.

Documentation probably lost or destroyed when OA ceased operation in 2009.

I flew on all 4 of OA's A-340s, they looked like they were in great shape, other than the paint fading.


Yanni
Fly Olympic - Aviation GREEK STYLE!
 
irshava
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:09 pm

Someone on another post mentioned that an Eastern European airline might find use for them... (MA, and others...)

Anyone else agree?
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
 
7673mech
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Quoting olympic707 (Reply 11):
Olympic Airways / Airlines has one of the best maintenance in the world. Their safety record proves it.

No one was questioning Olympics maintenance practices.
However if they can not produce records the aircraft are not airworthy.
The fact that records are missing or incomplete is suspect - records should not have been destroyed in 2009.
So if they can not be produced - it is equivalent of the work not being done.
It could be a very costly proposition to make them airworthy.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 13):
However if they can not produce records the aircraft are not airworthy.
The fact that records are missing or incomplete is suspect - records should not have been destroyed in 2009.
So if they can not be produced - it is equivalent of the work not being done.
It could be a very costly proposition to make them airworthy.

  

Maintenance issues can just as easily reflect bad or dishonest management as bad maintenance practices. The former is likely true here.

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 9):
I thought between the A33X and the 77W the A340 was getting clobbered.

No one will buy a new one, but there is plenty of interest in used ones at the right price, especially 343X and 346.

[Edited 2011-10-17 13:03:43]
 
kaitak744
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:51 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
The CX birds went to Hainan, not the desert.

Cathay still has a lot of A340-300s in the desert. The A340-600s actually never went to the desert.
 
SEA
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:31 pm

I'm sure if whoever owns them could find a buyer, they wouldn't be sitting anymore. The market for used A340s doesn't seem to be terribly huge though, considering all the CX 343s in the desert.
 
babaero
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:13 am

For infor, CX does not have any A340s in VCV.

HXM is in HKG awaiting del to Aerolineas

HXN in XMN

HXO in XMN
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:17 am

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 5):
I'm actually somewhat surprised HT didn't buy them back when they added two A340-300's to their fleet for JFK ops. Perhaps Gulf Air gave them a better price?

Speaking of HT, looks like they suspended ATH-JFK until at least Dec 31, 2011. They cite the economy and the delay in the delivery of the A343s as the main reasons.

Source: http://www.hellenicairways.com/suspe...-new-york-till-31st-december-2011_

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
PEET7G
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:41 am

Quoting irshava (Reply 12):
Someone on another post mentioned that an Eastern European airline might find use for them... (MA, and others...)

Anyone else agree?

The current MA is in no shape of entering Long haul business, and the same goes to all the others in the region. Even LO, and they have 767s and the 787s are starting to deliver next year, so I do not see any use of these A340s for them at all. Maybe an operator in Ukraine or more Est Russia?

Of course surprises do happen in this industry  
Peet7G
 
LTU330
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:44 am

Quoting olympic707 (Reply 11):
Documentation probably lost or destroyed when OA ceased operation in 2009.

If the documentation is lost or destroyed then the aircraft are not going to be sold on easily. If you cannot document every repair, part change, maintenance check performed, no leasing company or Airline will be interested.

Quoting alitis (Reply 8):
Saw them all lined up a few weeks ago all in stored condition. The top of the tails were covered with some sort of metalic tape, what is up there that needs to be protected?

The top of the vertical stabilizer is the home of some Antennas. The metallic tape (or speed tape as we call it) is to protect the composite housing.
 
stylo777
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:12 am

as far as I remember TK was interesting a while back, but due to the documentation issue they didn't do this deal.
 
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OA260
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:23 am

This was discussed before on another thread and at that time the Greek press reported that indeed documents had been destroyed by a disgruntled ex: employee. Never heard an update on that and not sure if it was reality. It certainly is a shame to see them sitting there although on the flip side I still love to see them in OA livery at ATH whenever Im there. From a purely aviation enthusiasts point of view Id like to see one in a museum so people could visit it , Greece lacks an aviation museum with such attractions doubt it will ever happen though. If it was the case that eventually they were sent to the scrap yard that is and cant fly.

Some photos I took end of September :

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/A3/4ce197b1.jpg
.
http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/A3/858175d5.jpg
.
http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/A3/2b7143bb.jpg

Quoting olympic707 (Reply 11):
I flew on all 4 of OA's A-340s, they looked like they were in great shape, other than the paint fading.

Indeed , OA had one of the highest maintenance standards in the industry and these aircraft were kept in mint condition. If the documents have been tampered with it makes it even more sad. OA engineers kept the fleet in mint condition all those years from B727/B707/B747/A300-B4/B737 etc....
 
Burkhard
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:30 am

So these aircraft technically are OK, but some paperwork is missing/ destroyed/lost - and aircraft woth about 150-200Mio are sitting there doing nothing.

What is the procedure in such a case? Has it to go through a special check to check those things which are missing and make new documents? Is such a case foreseen at all?
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:04 am

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 22):
So these aircraft technically are OK, but some paperwork is missing/ destroyed/lost - and aircraft worth about 150-200Mio are sitting there doing nothing.

There are inspections, Airworthiness Directives, maintenance, overhauls, part replacements, and the like which need to be conducted periodically. These must be performed using specific materials and processes. These materials and procedures must be reviewed and approved by the authorities, manufacturer (Airbus), and/or the organization's approved delegated maintenance engineer. The organization must maintain records of all work done, all materials used, and all inspections performed (including any findings) for the life of the airframe. These records will demonstrate conformance to the AD's, Maintenance, Inspections, etc. Without the records, there IS no evidence that the airframe or any of it's components are "technically OK".

Consider this, landing gear must be inspected and overhauled periodically. A340 has 4 (1 forward, 2 main, 1 ctr) landing gear. The cost of re-certifying the components can be 300K-750K per unit (this would not include brakes, tires, etc which is extra). Each of the 4 engines will need the same. This can easily exceed $1M-2M per unit. Airframe Inspections, Hydraulic components, exits, lights, all will need to be checked and recertified. This would be more intensive than a D check. The costs and time could be considerable.

Records of materials can be obtained from suppliers, as can records of outside work (depending on the record retention requirements of the contract). Internal work is a different story.

Certification of Conformity (CoC's), Test Reports and Inspection Records in the aerospace industry are the only things we can use in order to demonstrate that something is "Technically OK". Once the stamps, signatures and dates are added, it goes from the wonderland of "technically OK" (which actually doesn't exist in this industry) to "OK".

It is all about Objective Evidence.

Tom
Paper makes an airplane fly
 
Burkhard
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:14 am

I'm aware of the importance of the paperwork. So I understand that if only a few pages are destroyed here and there, it can cost many millions to make the checks, get all documented - which means is the destruction of some paper ( or some files on a computer disk? ) identical to the economical destruction of the whole plane?

If there is one page about the front gear missing, could it be reused as a spare part, or is even this possibility to part out destroyed in that case?
 
irshava
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:20 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 18):

I doubt any airline in Ukraine can afford a A340-300...

If the need came VV would probably take one for its longer routes but it doesn't make sense because most of their fleet is Boeing and it wouldn't make sense from a maintenance point of view, IMO.
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
 
bennett123
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:04 pm

It would be a pity if the destruction of these documents means these aircraft being left to rot.

At present Greece needs every $ that it can get.
 
trigged
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:09 pm

I certainly hope that the disgruntled ex-employee is spending some quality time in prison for doing this.
 
lewis
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:26 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 26):
I certainly hope that the disgruntled ex-employee is spending some quality time in prison for doing this.

I doubt it, punishing former and current state employees is not something that is ever done, most they get is a slap on the wrist. There have been cases where millions have been embezzled and nothing was done to bring them to justice.
 
Superfly
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:45 am

Sad to see these beautiful aircraft sitting out fading away. I had such a wonderful flight on their A340 from Athens to New York.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21):
Some photos I took end of September :

Great pictures!
SX-DFA is the aircraft I flew on.
Just 5 years ago it took me across the Atlantic. The plane felt so new and clean and the service was amazing.
These planes are too young to rot away like this.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:54 am

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 20):
as far as I remember TK was interesting a while back, but due to the documentation issue they didn't do this deal.

TK as far back as 2003-2004 was interested in leasing 2 of the frames.

At the time OA was basically only using two tails, with one of them already in some form of storage as I recall.

They were never able to make a deal, as OA's management was unresponsive to fully follow through on the negotiations.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
alitis
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:10 am

Can they be flown just as a ferry flight?
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:25 pm

Is the satellite building at ATH not used at all as these birds seem to be taking up the majority of one side??
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
DALCE
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:20 pm

I simply wonder why no back-ups were made of these documents in this modern world where every breath we take is being saved / stored and triple backed up on a broad selection of hardware.
This might just be typical for the shape Greece is currently in..... No one cares or so it seems..

[Edited 2011-10-21 06:23:16]
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
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OA260
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:37 pm

Quoting DALCE (Reply 33):
I simply wonder why no back-ups were made of these documents in this modern world where every breath we take is being saved

The truth is we dont know if there were back ups or not. Everything here is pure speculation with no facts available.

Quoting DALCE (Reply 33):
No one cares or so it seems..

I guess 100,000 on the streets means quite a large proportion do care but this is off topic so enough said!

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 32):
Is the satellite building at ATH not used at all as these birds seem to be taking up the majority of one side??

Seems so and the aircraft are constantly parked there so I guess they will stay until such time their fate is known.
 
bennett123
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:47 pm

IF the lack of documents is a major factor in the apparent inability of the Greek government to sell these aircraft, then it is logical that back ups do not exist. Surely if back ups existed, then copies of the documents could be produced.

I assume that Greece is unable to sell these aircraft, as I can see no point in holding onto them.

Whilst they may be only worth £150M, which would not solve all of Greece's problems, it is an amount not to be sneezed at.
 
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OA260
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RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:00 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 35):
Surely if back ups existed, then copies of the documents could be produced.

Well we dont know the facts so the documents rumour could be just that . There maybe other issues that prevent the sale of these A/C or other plans . AFAIK there is still a very valuable property in London which has still not been sold ie: the former OA London HQ ! There could be a number of reasons that the former Olympic Airlines assests have not been disposed of.
 
Spacepope
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:14 pm

Time to resurrect a Lazarus thread.

Apparently there are now no former Olympic A340s in Athens. The first two (SX-DFA and SX-DFB) were scrapped a while back, however Skyliner reports now that SX-DFC and SX-DFD were to have been delivered today ATH-THR to an unknown airline. It will be interesting to see where these two finally end up, as it has been rumored Iran will provide 3 A340s to Syrianair in the near future.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
ahmetdouas
Posts: 229
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:30 pm

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Olym ... y-a340.htm

Airfleets is showing that they have left ATH, one to BEK air in Kazakstan while the other one unknown.
I am quite nostalgic for them as I have taken the many times in the good days from LHR-ATH-KHR!
 
TC957
Posts: 2276
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:41 pm

Skyliner shows SX-DFC & DFD are now UP-A4002 & 4003 with " Bek Air ", and flew ATH - THR today. Any THR-based a-netters that can throw some light on their fate now ?
 
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TheLion
Posts: 177
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:55 pm

I did a little search. Airfleets and Planespotters have details of one of these frames each, but not both.

Here are the respective links to Bek Air's main pages, both for Airfleets and for Planespotters.
 
greg85
Posts: 58
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:21 pm

Wow. I saw them for years abandoned in Athens. I heard a rumour that the engineers destroyed the tech logs, and and all the technical history of the aircraft in some kind of act of revenge or defiance. I suppose by now they would require some serious maintenance regardless of what the tech log said.
 
gzm
Posts: 205
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:10 pm

I have just read in a similar greek site that the two A340s have been undergoing some kind of technical preparation for a week,so that they could do a ferry flight.Their deparure has been postponed one more time. These planes are not airworthy and if the liquidator had sent them to Marana or Mojave from the beginning for professional storage, they would have been in a much better condition...
 
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OA260
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:14 pm

From what I have heard departures have been put back a few times due to tech issues ( not surprised ) despite being maintained whilst on the ground at ATH for the last number of years there have been no flights so various things are due to show up. Due to eventually fly Astana to Tehran. Last I heard still on the ground at ATH.
 
bennett123
Topic Author
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:45 pm

Hopefully, they will fly again.
 
GianiDC
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:07 pm

So in summary 2 have been scraped and the other 2 are about to be sold but are still in Athens?

If you were looking into buying used A 340s, wouldn´t there be better alternatives? By reading this thread I understand they have a questionable maintenance record and some technical problems that stops them from taking off. But they are still really young and just effectively flown about 6 years. Now if they just were stored in a fitting place.
 
69bug
Posts: 30
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:07 am

Nothing is impossible. A HMV/D-check will ensure all is ok and SB/ADs updated. If the documentation is lost then possibly you're looking at fresh-engines. Its easier to track the large items like engines, gears etc but the smaller stuff is what gets you. Also the guys who have A340 capability (D-check) is quite limited.

If you get the airframe for pennies and spend some money on a D-check your essentially good for the next few years, I'd say six at least.. maybe more if your utilisation is low. Current thinking is to stagger checks so that the airplane doesn't spend much time in HMV so it could be longer.

A currently flying A340 may be cheaper initially but you have to consider how many hours you can get out of it before the next check.

bug
 
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LazarosK
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:33 pm

 
fpetrutiu
Posts: 655
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Re: RE: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:18 pm

Burkhard wrote:
So these aircraft technically are OK, but some paperwork is missing/ destroyed/lost - and aircraft woth about 150-200Mio are sitting there doing nothing.

What is the procedure in such a case? Has it to go through a special check to check those things which are missing and make new documents? Is such a case foreseen at all?


Nowhere near that amount. maybe 20 mil at best each... There simply is no market for them, thus resale value is rock bottom. Without paperwork, they are coke cans... Nobody will touch them...

This baby has been up for sale for over 4 years... http://www.controller.com/listings/airc ... irbus-a340
Florin
Orlando, FL
 
bennett123
Topic Author
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Re: Olympic Airlines A340's At Athens

Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:51 pm

I see it is at Monterrey.

Are many planes stored there.

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