Looks like UA will start IAD-FCO nonstops effective April 1 2007. Schedule is as follows:

UA 966 IAD 6:16pm FCO 8:50am+ 777
UA 967 FCO 10:55am IAD 2:40pm 777

Somewhat surprising that they picked FCO for their return to Italy rather than the higher yielding MXP, where they operated until a couple of years ago. I presume there will be a capacity adjustments for the winter months if this flight is operating year round.

YES!!!!!! I've been waiting for their return to Italy. Everytime I asked on the fourm or UA no one thinks its going to happen anytime soon. Cheers United

[Edited 2006-10-19 15:25:47]

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter): Looks like UA will start IAD-FCO nonstops effective April 1 2007. Schedule is as follows: UA 966 IAD 6:16pm FCO 8:50am+ 777 UA 967 FCO 10:55am IAD 2:40pm 777

That is great news! But where did you find it? I can't find anything about it on their site.

Personally, I'm more surprised they're using 777s on the route. FCO, particularly in the summer, is a very leisure-oriented route. United is now going to be, IINM, the only airline offering 3-class service from FCO to the U.S. But alas, does United have an alternative? Does United have a 2-class international plane?

The additional capacity will be needed when Alitalia goes or cutsback.   

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 3): That is great news! But where did you find it? I can't find anything about it on their site.

It's loaded in the reservation systems, so you should be able to find it on sites like Amadeus.

Interesting indeed.

Everything I was told when I was at UA was that UA was focused on the buisness travel market to Europe. FCO is definately more of a lesiure destination. I would have thought a return to MXP was in the cards before FCO!

Still, its pretty cool. I once told a bunch of folk that UA ought to use "Pines of Rome" in any advertisment regarding starting Rome service.

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 3): That is great news! But where did you find it? I can't find anything about it on their site

Here's the official press release:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061019/cgth016.html?.v=75

Flights loaded on united.bomb as well and bookable.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4): the only airline offering 3-class service from FCO to the U.S. But alas, does United have an alternative? Does United have a 2-class international plane?

No, UA doesn't have a 2-class transoceanic plane...yet...Anyway, I guess the F cabin will be good for NRSAs and frequent flyer upgrades...

Here is a question...who is not getting 777 service next year so that Rome can start up? Considering that UA only has a finite set of aircraft....

UA will do well there in the summer and there is some premium demand; it also could be a good flight to burn miles on. What they do in the winter will be interesting to watch.

They undoubtedly have watched how much capacity DL has successfully put in FCO during the summer... and DOT statistics show the market accepts its well. However, DL cuts FCO back significantly in the winter, sometimes operating only one flight/day in the dead of the winter compared with 5 during the summer. There's room for UA, though, esp. w/ AZ's pullout from IAD.

This does put even more pressure on AZ. Italy is becoming like Belgium in that every US carrier will fly there but there is little or weak service from the home carrier.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 8): Quoting Commavia (Reply 4): the only airline offering 3-class service from FCO to the U.S. But alas, does United have an alternative? Does United have a 2-class international plane? No, UA doesn't have a 2-class transoceanic plane...yet...Anyway, I guess the F cabin will be good for NRSAs and frequent flyer upgrades...

I agree that it is a bit suprising that the 777 is being used but imho it is one of the things that seperates UA from quite a few carriers to Europe. By giving the option of F they will benefit from the sales to corporate and affluent travelers who simply buy the highest cabin. Admitting that I am biased with my love for UA, being 1k, or for that matter other premier members will benefit from this route simply from the upgrade possibilities. For the sake of UA though I hope that I am wrong and they can sell out the premium cabins and suprise us all.

Does anyone have information on the cargo revenue that is expected from this route, perhaps that is reason enough for the 777, I would assume that most would go through MXP.

Wow...start with a 777 right off the bat...you would think they would start with a 767 and upgrade to a 777 if needed!!!!!

Remember that US fly from PHL to Rome with A333 all the year round! A333 is quite similar to B772.

YEEESSSS!!!!!! Not that I hate DL or CO, but I was sick and tired of UA sitting back and letting the competition (like DL, with some 50 new/restarted routes this year alone) steamroll over us by expanding like no tomorrow!!! OMG! My birthday present will be just that, 8APR, UA966F, IAD-FCO. I swear! April 8th I will be there. YUP! So happy right now! That wasn't even on Skynet or anything...It was just out of the blue!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4): Personally, I'm more surprised they're using 777s on the route. FCO, particularly in the summer, is a very leisure-oriented route.

You're telling me...a 777 is huge! I don't know where the feed will come from because it's not a hub to *A hub route. Though, I'm not a route planner either. Maybe people will connect onto Alitalia? Or maybe they are anticipating a lot of cargo? I don't see that much cargo around Alitalia's planes when they come in each day from MXP--at least not so much that they couldn't put it on a '67. Maybe it will fill up like they do with IAD-AMS and IAD-CDG...Either way I'm happy they are going back to Italy.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4): United is now going to be, IINM, the only airline offering 3-class service from FCO to the U.S. But alas, does United have an alternative? Does United have a 2-class international plane?

Quoting Panamair (Reply 8): No, UA doesn't have a 2-class transoceanic plane...yet...Anyway, I guess the F cabin will be good for NRSAs and frequent flyer upgrades...

The 777 non-ERs are two class but are used for the Hawaii runs. Maybe if they could get them rated, they could use one for IAD-FCO, but:
1) I don't even know if they can get those engines rated for ER
2) I doubt they would take a plane off of US mainland-Hawaii and
3) I doubt they would vary their international product on trans-atlantic flights.

And about that ''yet" comment, Panamair: do you think that UA is going to follow suit and get rid of its First class like some others? (Just speculating on your comment...)

One more thing: I noticed that when they put in IAD-KWI, they had to change the MEX-IAD-BOS/return flight numbers because they overlapped (MEX-IAD-BOS used to be UA980 and BOS-IAD-MEX was UA981; IAD-KWI is now UA982 and KWI-IAD is UA981). Do you think they have more routes to announce (for 2007 maybe) since they seem to be adding flights, including this one, in the 960-980 flight number range? I don't know whether I explained that clear enough, or even whether it is a rational observation, but you guys can help me on that...

Go UA. Now post a profit please. And please not USD$1.

One of the benefits of operating to Rome versus Milan is the potential feed that UA can generate with AirOne whom I'd expect UA to sign full code share with in the coming month. AirOne operates to some 22 destinations from FCO while having no service whatsover from Milan's MXP.

Between FCO based AirOne tie in and Air Dolomiti providing feed at MUC, UA will have a excellent network covering Italy.

I am always suspicious of anything on April 1. A joke perhaps? Are they doing this as part of their "Captial-to-Capital" campaign for IAD-PEK? Would they then drop IAD-FCO before it starts if they do not get the China flight?

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1): Somewhat surprising that they picked FCO for their return to Italy rather than the higher yielding MXP, where they operated until a couple of years ago. I presume there will be a capacity adjustments for the winter months if this flight is operating year round.

Actually, I am not so surprised. I see United as trying to exploit the niche premium market that has been rather ignored under some temporal revenue management model that has not done much good for anyone recently. Further, I see United as using this route much like a Hawai'i route where it won't make them a bundle but should be reliably profitable. Further, they may well have secured a major cargo contract, for which the 777 will prove indispensible.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4): Does United have a 2-class international plane?

No, though it would behoove them to do that to the 767s with the cabin refurbishment

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 14): You're telling me...a 777 is huge!

At United, not really, if you go by seat density.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 16): Would they then drop IAD-FCO before it starts if they do not get the China flight?

What does Rome have to do with China? Other than the fact that Marco Polo was Italian, and Venician at that, nothing.

There is no Capitol to Capitol connection. IAD is UAs East Coast hub. Mush of it's European international service is out of there. It just makes sense.

Adding PEK service is an enhancement to already existing service.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 15): One of the benefits of operating to Rome versus Milan is the potential feed that UA can generate with AirOne whom I'd expect UA to sign full code share with in the coming month. AirOne operates to some 22 destinations from FCO while having no service whatsover from Milan's MXP.

Good point.

Great to see UA going back to Italy.......IAD expansion just keeps on coming!

First off, go United! Good to see some European expansion.

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 14): You're telling me...a 777 is huge!

UA seems to give IAD preferential 777 treatment. For example CDG-ORD is a 767, while CDG-IAD is a 777. LHR-LAX is a 767, while LHR-IAD is a 777. Is there a reason for this? Image -- have your newest and best planes at the "international" hub? Availablity -- simply an issue of using what you've got? Economics -- IAD have more premium pax than ORD, SFO? Maintenance -- is all 777 maintenance performed at IAD?

Great news! I hope that UA will restart service from IAD to MAD soon. I would also like to see UA upgrade international service from their hubs at ORD and SFO.

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 20): LHR-LAX is a 767

Only the seasonal 2nd LHR-LAX flight is a 767. The regular year-round LHR-LAX is a 777.

Quoting ORDPIA (Reply 11): I agree that it is a bit suprising that the 777 is being used but imho it is one of the things that seperates UA from quite a few carriers to Europe. By giving the option of F they will benefit from the sales to corporate and affluent travelers who simply buy the highest cabin. Admitting that I am biased with my love for UA, being 1k, or for that matter other premier members will benefit from this route simply from the upgrade possibilities. For the sake of UA though I hope that I am wrong and they can sell out the premium cabins and suprise us all.

This changes our vacation plans for next spring. We were considering Spain in April or May. Now it's looking like Italy - love the opportunity to upgrade on UA.

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 20): UA seems to give IAD preferential 777 treatment. For example CDG-ORD is a 767, while CDG-IAD is a 777. LHR-LAX is a 767, while LHR-IAD is a 777. Is there a reason for this? Image -- have your newest and best planes at the "international" hub? Availablity -- simply an issue of using what you've got? Economics -- IAD have more premium pax than ORD, SFO? Maintenance -- is all 777 maintenance performed at IAD?

Side note: They're trying to make IAD a 747 base too, according to the pilots and other folk.

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 20): Maintenance -- is all 777 maintenance performed at IAD?

All major MX at UA is perfomed at the MRO at SFO.

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 20): while LHR-IAD is a 777.

LHR-IAD has a mix of 777s and 767s part of the year and a mix of 777s, 767s and 744s part of the year

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 20): LHR-LAX is a 767

Only one flight is a 767, the main flight is a 777

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 20): Economics -- IAD have more premium pax than ORD, SFO?

No, IAD is just better located in United's universe to connect passengers

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25): No, IAD is just better located in United's universe to connect passengers

..even though from a customer perspective, I hate UA's IAD facilities - crowded, cramped (especially the lounges), old, and some of the nastiest ground personnel in the UA system (the Red Carpet Club's lounge dragons/matrons come to mind)....

Quoting Panamair (Reply 26): (especially the lounges),

Actually, the RCC I used, I really liked

Quoting Panamair (Reply 26): old, and some of the nastiest ground personnel in the UA system (the Red Carpet Club's lounge dragons/matrons come to mind)....

Most of the ground staff I find are younger and tend to be African immigrants, who work very hard to get flights out in an orderly manner but aren't much for customer service.

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 24): Side note: They're trying to make IAD a 747 base too, according to the pilots and other folk.

IAD already is a B744 crew base, along with LAX, ORD & SFO.

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 20): is all 777 maintenance performed at IAD?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25): All major MX at UA is perfomed at the MRO at SFO.

777 D checks are performed by Ameco in Beijing.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 16): I am always suspicious of anything on April 1. A joke perhaps?

Sure enough, it shows on the UA website for 4/1. Wow. And it also shows the US flight via PHL as another option, so UA is still maintaing the partnership with US.

Could this be a seasonal flight, perhaps? In the fall the 777 switches to a South American route?

Hey I'm just happy UA now has TED from PBI to Dulles, finally.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 28): 777 D checks are performed by Ameco in Beijing.

Interesting. I wonder why not the MRO?

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 30): Hey I'm just happy UA now has TED from PBI to Dulles, finally.

Happy to have Ted? That is a first

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31): Interesting. I wonder why not the MRO?

Much of UA's heavy checks are contracted out.

744s to Korean Air while 767 and narrow body fleet are split amongst several US providors.

Quoting OOer (Reply 12): Wow...start with a 777 right off the bat...you would think they would start with a 767 and upgrade to a 777 if needed!!!!!

I'm wondering if there was some contract that United signed to help fill up the plane. It is possible that there is some client that wanted fully flat seats, and the only two planes in the United fleet that have fully flat first class seats are the 777 and 747. The 767s have an older generation of first class seat that are not fully flat.

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 13): Remember that US fly from PHL to Rome with A333 all the year round! A333 is quite similar to B772.

There is no first class on US. That's a huge difference although the capacity and amenities of business class and economy are similar between the two.

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 14): The 777 non-ERs are two class but are used for the Hawaii runs. Maybe if they could get them rated, they could use one for IAD-FCO, but: 1) I don't even know if they can get those engines rated for ER 2) I doubt they would take a plane off of US mainland-Hawaii and 3) I doubt they would vary their international product on trans-atlantic flights.

However there is no chance of the 2-class 777s being used internationally. They are very high capacity planes that serve Hawaii. They have 36'' pitch first class. There is no chance of those planes ending up in Europe, but United does have other non ER 777s that fly transatlantic routes.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 26): .even though from a customer perspective, I hate UA's IAD facilities - crowded, cramped (especially the lounges), old, and some of the nastiest ground personnel in the UA system (the Red Carpet Club's lounge dragons/matrons come to mind)....

IAD has one huge advantage. There are far fewer delays. That makes it a better connecting point from my standpoint. I've missed plenty of flights through ORD due to ground delay programs.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 33): There is no first class on US. That's a huge difference although the capacity and amenities of business class and economy are similar between the two.

It's all Envoy class, though row 1 has lay-flat seats, but the rest of Envoy doesn't. At least on the A330, can't speak for US' 762 fleet.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17): No, though it would behoove them to do that to the 767s with the cabin refurbishment

OH GOD YES. I have to say, and this is coming from a diehard UA fan. Those 767's are an absolute embarrassment.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4): Personally, I'm more surprised they're using 777s on the route. FCO, particularly in the summer, is a very leisure-oriented route. United is now going to be, IINM, the only airline offering 3-class service from FCO to the U.S. But alas, does United have an alternative? Does United have a 2-class international plane?

It will definately do well, especially with a 3 class 777. I go to Italy every June, from my home airport, IAD, and there are so many UA customers and frequent flyers who fly UA to FRA and then codeshare on LH to FCO. I wouldn't be surprised if they downgraded to a 763 in the winter (which is what MXP used), but they will definately benefit from keeping their passengers on UA metal all the way, instead of losing them at FRA.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25): LHR-IAD has a mix of 777s and 767s part of the year and a mix of 777s, 767s and 744s part of the year

Is the 747 returning this winter for UA918/919 IAD-LHR-IAD?? I didn't see it at all through December...(But I didn't check through March either...)

Quoting Panamair (Reply 26): and some of the nastiest ground personnel in the UA system (the Red Carpet Club's lounge dragons/matrons come to mind)....

PLEASE be careful with that statement! I'm a UA Ramp worker who loves going to work just to wear my United uniform and see some widebody planes. I also, however, do my job the best way I know how--even when it takes an extreme toll on my body, as it has, and I'm not even 25 years old! There are some grouchy people on the ramp, but if you knew how Dulles management bulllies us around, gives us no manpower, gives us broken equipment that hasn't been replaced in years, and expects us to turn narrowbodies within 21 minutes and widebodies sometimes in 80 minutes, and so much more crap you would not believe, you'd understand the reason for which some of us are a little cranky, especially when people could not care less about the ramp worker with their bag outside in sweltering 105 degree / freezing 0 degree weather. The sayingn on the ramp goes as follows: "Bags don't talk." There is a reason people go to the ramp. With that said, do our complaints give us a reason to do are jobs poorly? No. We should still do the best of which we are capable. Remember, though, we're human. We have feelings. We get angry, tired and tried, and stressed. We have problems that we have to face as well. There are those few who do try--the ones who you talk to on this forum, who love United for all it represents--and you more often than not do not see them.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4): United is now going to be, IINM, the only airline offering 3-class service from FCO to the U.S.

Maybe they will make revenue out of that, by being the only one. The demand for high-yield looks low at FCO, but still existing. So there may be not be room for all carriers, but the single one left with this service could make a good profit out of it as the offer is kept very low. I hope they will succeed, they desperately need to suceed somewhere.
AF is in the same situation at YUL if I'm not mistaken. While all the competition brings 2-class equipment in here, AF gets 100% of the highest yield F flyers, who are probably few, but still present.

Niche markets are present everywhere. One carrier just has to not be shy and jump in.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23): This changes our vacation plans for next spring. We were considering Spain in April or May. Now it's looking like Italy - love the opportunity to upgrade on UA.

Do you REALLY choose your vacation destination based on who flies what where?

Quoting Panamair (Reply 26): hate UA's IAD facilities - crowded, cramped (especially the lounges), old, and some of the nastiest ground personnel in the UA system (the Red Carpet Club's lounge dragons/matrons come to mind)....

While I agree with you on the facilities, talk to congress. DC is an amazing city, but being the nation's capital of the world's most powerful nation- there is a lot of room for improvement, especially transportation wise (Transit excluded).

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27): Most of the ground staff I find are younger and tend to be African immigrants, who work very hard to get flights out in an orderly manner but aren't much for customer service.

That's somewhat true. A lot of the airport employees are N. African and Middle Eastern and Indian (descent), but there are a fair share of them at UA. I agree, they do work really hard, and most of them are very pleasant.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 28): IAD already is a B744 crew base, along with LAX, ORD & SFO.

Correct. I wonder if the KWI route, is a big factor in this, because IAD has a lot less 744 flights than SFO, LAX or ORD. I think FRA is the only one right now?

Quoting Panamair (Reply 26): Quoting N1120A (Reply 25): No, IAD is just better located in United's universe to connect passengers ..even though from a customer perspective, I hate UA's IAD facilities - crowded, cramped (especially the lounges), old, and some of the nastiest ground personnel in the UA system (the Red Carpet Club's lounge dragons/matrons come to mind)....

I second that one. Just a week ago I didn't make a 2 hours 20 minutes UA international-to-domestic connection at IAD because the immigration, customs and laguagge re-checking facilites were completele overloaded with half a dozen arrivals from Europe. The crowd was standing everywhere in one huge line to get their bags back to handlers and go through the security into the terminal. The international ORD terminal is much better for arrivals.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 33): IAD has one huge advantage. There are far fewer delays. That makes it a better connecting point from my standpoint. I've missed plenty of flights through ORD due to ground delay programs.

I guess I was lucky, I never had to connect at O'Hare on a winter storm day. As far as international arrivals go there is no comparison, ORD wins all the way.

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 37): PLEASE be careful with that statement! I'm a UA Ramp worker who loves going to work just to wear my United uniform

I have no doubt you are but I was talking mostly about customer-facing ground staff at IAD, in particular the RCC lounge dragons (I. as the passenger, actually have to work extra hard to get a smile or simple "you're welcome" out of most of them; I have also had a few experiences where they simply make up rules, etc., to suit their own convenience, etc.). As a 1K, I have come across many excellent UA ground personnel at various airports I frequent - that's why the surliness of some of these 'matrons' at IAD really stand out. I am glad to see that you take such pride in your job - there should clearly be more employees such as yourself. Hope that you will be properly rewarded one day for your diligence and dedication.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 38): Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23): This changes our vacation plans for next spring. We were considering Spain in April or May. Now it's looking like Italy - love the opportunity to upgrade on UA. Do you REALLY choose your vacation destination based on who flies what where?

If I go to Spain, I can only fly UA to Paris or London, then catch a star alliance flight to Barcelona or Madrid.

If I fly UA, I have a 50% chance (based on my past experience) of getting an upgrade. Since Spain and Italy are on my "to do" list, why not move Italy ahead of Spain when I can get a good price and an upgrade?

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 39): Correct. I wonder if the KWI route, is a big factor in this, because IAD has a lot less 744 flights than SFO, LAX or ORD. I think FRA is the only one right now?

I think that NRT and SYD are the only LAX 744 flights currently.

SFO is UA 744 heaven.

One likely reason that UA is flying to FCO instead og MPX is that they may possibly use Air One on flights out of Rome on a code-share basis. Air One is already closely linked to a few Star Alliance carriers (Lufthansa, Air Canada, TAP, USAirways, etc.) Air One does not fly out of Malpensa , only Linate.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 21): Great news! I hope that UA will restart service from IAD to MAD soon. I would also like to see UA upgrade international service from their hubs at ORD and SFO.

As a long time UA fan, I agree that any expansion is great. But when will they show their homebase (ORD) some love?????? Just askin.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 41): I have no doubt you are but I was talking mostly about customer-facing ground staff at IAD, in particular the RCC lounge dragons (I. as the passenger, actually have to work extra hard to get a smile or simple "you're welcome" out of most of them; I have also had a few experiences where they simply make up rules, etc., to suit their own convenience, etc.). As a 1K, I have come across many excellent UA ground personnel at various airports I frequent - that's why the surliness of some of these 'matrons' at IAD really stand out. I am glad to see that you take such pride in your job - there should clearly be more employees such as yourself. Hope that you will be properly rewarded one day for your diligence and dedication.

Appreciated. Greatly. And glad to see that you notice our hard-working front line employees...  

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 43): I think that NRT and SYD are the only LAX 744 flights currently. SFO is UA 744 heaven.

Yes, NRT too. I guess there are some domestic routes that utilize the 744 from LAX and IAD.
Do any UA employees know if IAD is a crewbase for all mainline equipment? I think it is... I know DEN is only domestic equipment, no 777s.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 47): Yes, NRT too. I guess there are some domestic routes that utilize the 744 from LAX and IAD. Do any UA employees know if IAD is a crewbase for all mainline equipment? I think it is... I know DEN is only domestic equipment, no 777s.

I'm not sure what you mean, but I can tell you we get everything except for PS configured 757s and Domestic 777s (like those from the US to Hawai'i) and a bunch of express planes, which make up most of the service out of IAD.

What I meant was, is there a crewbase at IAD for 737, 747 757/767 and Airbus at IAD?

I was also stating, that I was surprised that DEN does not have a 777 or 744 crew base- despite the fact that a lot of 777 and 747 crews commute from Denver.