Airliners.net

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:31 pm**

trent768 wrote:
It ended way later, around 1997/8 since my dad flew CGK-(BIK?)-HNL-LAX vv on their MD-11 in 1996 for a summer school in Dallas. The trip was so memorable to him that he remember all the ticket price: $2700 for GA's C class to LAX and $100 each for AA's LAX-DFW/DFW-JFK/JFK-LAX with some sort of student deals available back then.

I found another post that goes into a bit more detail about Garuda's US service: viewtopic.php?t=1342965#p19081809

JKT = Kemayoran, one of Jakarta's two airports alongside Halim Perdana (HLP). International flights were moved from JKT to HLP in 1975, while JKT itself was shut down and demolished in 1985. Domestic flights were moved to the new Sukarno-Hatta (CGK) on March 31st. But then HLP became overcrowded, so it was decided to consolidate domestic and international flights into CGK. Terminal 2 opened on May 11, 1991 and HLP's international routes were moved to CGK. HLP was converted into a general aviation/military airfield.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:22 pm**

leftcoast8 wrote:
It's obvious Malaysia wants to make a name for itself. I see Petronas sponsorships all over Formula One. Last year's parliamentary elections were promising, as the more moderate PH/WARISAN coalition won an upset victory over the ruling BN coalition, which had ruled Malaysia for 61 years (BN had been the ruling coalition since Malaysia gained independence from the UK in 1957) and had been making frightening overtures to fundamentalist clerics in the past couple of years. Now Malaysia is becoming more moderate while ironically Indonesia is becoming more fundamentalist. I wish Malaysia the best of luck.

You missed the irony - that the former PM, the corrupt one who insisted on having MH fly to EZE, is now the PM again. And judging from the past year, it's clear he's not changed his tune from before! Also, he's not being moderate in the least bit, because he can see that he's losing support of the conservatives which still forms the majority of Malaysian voters (they only won on a plurality of votes).

It angers me that they're screwing MH around, by first letting the LoI for the 787 that MH desperately needed lapse, then heaping blame on MH for the losses in the sovereign wealth fund that was caused by their incompetence. If only MH had committed to proper fleet planning & not get disturbed by politicians, I've no doubt that we could still see them flying to AMS/CDG today.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:52 pm**

trent768 wrote:
leftcoast8 wrote:
The last direct flight from Indonesia to North America was Garuda's CGK-HNL-LAX via a DC-10, ended in the late 80s? Northwest planned on starting a 3 weekly SEA-KIX-KUL-CGK using the DC-10 (start date was planned to be 7/1/1996) but for some reason it fell through and was replaced by NW68/69 DTW-KIX-KUL, a 3 weekly 747-400. The KIX-KUL tag-on was discontinued in May 2001, can't pin down the exact date.

It ended way later, around 1997/8 since my dad flew CGK-(BIK?)-HNL-LAX vv on their MD-11 in 1996 for a summer school in Dallas. The trip was so memorable to him that he remember all the ticket price: $2700 for GA's C class to LAX and $100 each for AA's LAX-DFW/DFW-JFK/JFK-LAX with some sort of student deals available back then.

I can confirm since I also flew that sector twice. Miserable experience in hindsight, but I had just graduated from college so didn’t know any better. Must been around the same time, but flew GA on a MD-11 LAX-HNL-DPS-CGK in C Class. You’d land in HNL around midnight and I’d dash and take a quick shower in the terminal before the long sector to DPS. No IFE then. Service was OK. By the time you got to Jakarta you were a vegetable.

I’m pretty sure when it was DC-10-30s the routing was LAX-HNL-BIK-DPS-CGK.

Back then you would talk to your fellow passengers since there was nothing to do and you ran out of reading materials. On GA most were American business men heading to the Iryan Jaya mines, some missionary stuff, very little VFR and some tourism to Bali.

As a side note, when I flew CZ on their initial LAX- CAN flight in J it was filled with American couples picking up adoption babies from China. Fascinating stuff. Going over no kids, coming back screaming babies. The look on these parents faces (now especially as a parent) was priceless.

Finally for MH, I once took a flight from NRT-PEN-KUL in a 744. At the time I thought it was odd to stop in Penang, but clearly they were pushing tourism as much as business traffic to Malaysia.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:57 pm**

leftcoast8 wrote:
trent768 wrote:
It ended way later, around 1997/8 since my dad flew CGK-(BIK?)-HNL-LAX vv on their MD-11 in 1996 for a summer school in Dallas. The trip was so memorable to him that he remember all the ticket price: $2700 for GA's C class to LAX and $100 each for AA's LAX-DFW/DFW-JFK/JFK-LAX with some sort of student deals available back then.

I found another post that goes into a bit more detail about Garuda's US service: viewtopic.php?t=1342965#p19081809

JKT = Kemayoran, one of Jakarta's two airports alongside Halim Perdana (HLP). International flights were moved from JKT to HLP in 1975, while JKT itself was shut down and demolished in 1985. Domestic flights were moved to the new Sukarno-Hatta (CGK) on March 31st. But then HLP became overcrowded, so it was decided to consolidate domestic and international flights into CGK. Terminal 2 opened on May 11, 1991 and HLP's international routes were moved to CGK. HLP was converted into a general aviation/military airfield.

Re-read the link, which I also contributed. Nice to see that the story I described from memory is nearly the same a few years later.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:59 am**

Lufthansa wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Does anyone have the schedule to MH's flights to Zagreb? I am really interested and curious about this one!

Me too. You'd be surprised who flew there. Even Qantas did at one point! It's off topic but you'd be surprised by some of the old
routes. I think there was a lot of demand to the Adriatic areas from all the Melbourne crowd, especially after
Alitalia and Olympic pulled out. Other odd routes too like QF PER to HRE.
Anybody with old timetables love to hear this stuff is always interesting!

QF never operated to ZAG, they flew to BEG as a tag on their ATH services. Also those services ended well before Olympic Airways pulled out of SYD & MEL.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:10 am**

I stand corrected. It was a different country at the time.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:50 am**

MartijnNL wrote:
Why didn't these routes to major European airports make sense according to you? Amsterdam for example was operated for 35 years and performed well. Malaysia had to make cutbacks after one of their 777's disappeared into the night and another one was shot down.

Apart from LHR, AMS was the only other route that MH can sustain. FRA was also making losses and even LH stopped their service.

When MH retired its B777-200ER fleet in 2016, it did not have any more long haul aircraft capable of flying to AMS. KL did try adding a second daily service (3X weekly) in the summer of 2016 but it was discontinued after that period. It was obvious that there wasn't enough business on that route to sustain twice daily flights even after MH ceased their flights.

So it does appear that other than LHR, most European cities are not able to offer MH a good business case. Today, MH uses its excess A359 capacity on their routes to Japan. If European routes were viable, one would have thought that they would send the A359 to AMS/CDG/FRA instead of KIX/NRT.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:24 am**

leftcoast8 wrote:
Northwest planned on starting a 3 weekly SEA-KIX-KUL-CGK using the DC-10 (start date was planned to be 7/1/1996) but for some reason it fell through and was replaced by NW68/69 DTW-KIX-KUL, a 3 weekly 747-400. The KIX-KUL tag-on was discontinued in May 2001, can't pin down the exact date.

Northwest operated a DC-10-30 on the KIX-KUL sector, though DTW-KIX was a B744. The KUL tag was discontinued in Sep 2001, not long after 9/11, earlier than its planned termination in late-Oct. I was actually booked on NW in mid-Sep 2001 on HNL-KIX-KUL, but was re-routed by NW via NRT (NRT-KUL on MH) due to the suspension.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:40 am**

Melb94 wrote:
Crackshot wrote:
Melb94 wrote:

I have a few departure/arrival times for various MH destinations (LAX-NRT, VIE, JNB, FRA, AMS, EWR-ARN, IST, CDG, ZRH, FCO, EZE-CPT, DXB-KHI, MAN & CAI) that are no longer served. Would you like a copy of them?

If you wouldn't mind, I would love that. Thank you!

Here you go:
These schedules were were grabbed from Flightstats in 2012 when they operated in during the Northern Summer of 2012 unless the destination was axed such as VIE, JNB (axed in Jan 2012), EWR-ARN, ZRH, FCO (axed in Jan 2012, EZE-CPT (axed in Feb 2012), MAN, CAI. All schedules are from Northern Summer only.

MH-092 KUL 11.00am 7.10pm NRT 8.40pm 3.10pm LAX
MH-093 LAX 5.15pm 8.30pm NRT 10.05pm 4.30am KUL

MH-022 KUL 11.45pm 5.30am VIE
MH-023 VIE 12.30pm 5.45am KUL

MH-203 KUL 1.20am 6.00am JNB
MH-204 JNB 1.40pm 6.10am KUL

MH-006 KUL 11.59pm 6.40am FRA
MH-005 FRA 12.30pm 6.25am KUL

MH-016 KUL 11.55pm 6.55am AMS
MH-017 AMS 12.00pm 6.30am KUL

MH-090 KUL 11.59pm 6.00am ARN 7.45am 10.20am EWR
MH-091 EWR 10.00pm 11.40am ARN 1.10pm 6.30am KUL

MH-030 KUL 12.30am 6.15am IST
MH-031 IST 3.10pm 6.35am KUL

MH-020 KUL 11.35pm 6.40am CDG
MH-021 CDG 12.30pm 6.35am KUL

MH-010 KUL 11.45pm 6.15am ZRH
MH-009 ZRH 12.50pm 6.45am KUL

MH-014 KUL 11.50pm 5.35am FCO
MH-015 FCO 12.20pm 6.50am KUL

MH-201 KUL 1.30am 7.15am CPT 8.55am 1.30pm EZE
MH-202 EZE 11.30pm 12.10pm CPT 1.40pm 6.50am KUL

MH-160 KUL 12.30pm 3.25pm KHI 4.25pm 5.25pm DXB
MH-161 DXB 6.40pm 9.45pm KHI 10.59pm 7.50am KUL

MH-012 KUL 10.30am 4.40pm MAN
MH-011 MAN 8.00pm 3.30pm KUL

MH-158 KUL 7.35pm 12.25am CAI
MH-159 CAI 1.55am 5.00pm KUL

MH also flew at one point:

MH-147 KUL 9.35pm 10.35pm CGK 11.35pm 8.50am MEL
MH-146 MEL 12.01am 4.00am CGK 5.00am 8.00am KUL

MH-094 KUL 3.15pm 7.45pm TPE 9.15pm 5.05pm LAX
MH-095 KUL 11.10pm 6.10am TPE 7.40am 12.15pm KUL

MH-090 KUL 3.20pm 7.45pm TPE 9.15pm 6.15pm LAX 7.45pm 1.00am MEX
MH-091 MEX 9.20pm 11.00pm LAX 1.45am 6.15am TPE 8.00am 12.20pm KUL (operated in October 1996 as stated by departedflights.com)

Hope this helps!

Amazing. Very helpful, thank you

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:18 pm**

Melb94 wrote:
MH-090 KUL 3.20pm 7.45pm TPE 9.15pm 6.15pm LAX 7.45pm 1.00am MEX
MH-091 MEX 9.20pm 11.00pm LAX 1.45am 6.15am TPE 8.00am 12.20pm KUL (operated in October 1996 as stated by departedflights.com)

Hope this helps!

Almost a full day on the ground in MEX?! The westbound TPAC flights work well because of this, but that's a massive chunk of time to sit on the ground.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:20 pm**

Lufthansa wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Does anyone have the schedule to MH's flights to Zagreb? I am really interested and curious about this one!

Me too. You'd be surprised who flew there. Even Qantas did at one point! It's off topic but you'd be surprised by some of the old
routes. I think there was a lot of demand to the Adriatic areas from all the Melbourne crowd, especially after
Alitalia and Olympic pulled out. Other odd routes too like QF PER to HRE.
Anybody with old timetables love to hear this stuff is always interesting!

Old timetables are always fascinating, especially when seeing images of Qantas 707s in Acapulco, Iraqi Airways 747s in Rio de Janeiro, and Air India 707s in Prague, and wondering how on earth those routes were operated!

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:28 pm**

CDG should be doable as there are now no non-stop flights. In 2013 MH had 4-5 flights a week on a B772. Then around March that year it went to daily A380. Plus AF also started 3 or 4 weekly services. So in a matter of months the number of seats available suddenly doubled. Now that both airlines have stopped direct flights it should be a viable route for MH

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:35 pm**

flyer1225 wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Does anyone have the schedule to MH's flights to Zagreb? I am really interested and curious about this one!

Me too. You'd be surprised who flew there. Even Qantas did at one point! It's off topic but you'd be surprised by some of the old
routes. I think there was a lot of demand to the Adriatic areas from all the Melbourne crowd, especially after
Alitalia and Olympic pulled out. Other odd routes too like QF PER to HRE.
Anybody with old timetables love to hear this stuff is always interesting!

Old timetables are always fascinating, especially when seeing images of Qantas 707s in Acapulco, Iraqi Airways 747s in Rio de Janeiro, and Air India 707s in Prague, and wondering how on earth those routes were operated!

Not to mention even weirder routes like a TG DC10 in NOU, CSA IL-62 in CGK, RG 744/MD11 in HKG, KL and QF in CTS, and you could go on and on with these old routes.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:59 pm**

flyer1225 wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Does anyone have the schedule to MH's flights to Zagreb? I am really interested and curious about this one!

Me too. You'd be surprised who flew there. Even Qantas did at one point! It's off topic but you'd be surprised by some of the old
routes. I think there was a lot of demand to the Adriatic areas from all the Melbourne crowd, especially after
Alitalia and Olympic pulled out. Other odd routes too like QF PER to HRE.
Anybody with old timetables love to hear this stuff is always interesting!

Old timetables are always fascinating, especially when seeing images of Qantas 707s in Acapulco, Iraqi Airways 747s in Rio de Janeiro, and Air India 707s in Prague, and wondering how on earth those routes were operated!

Should we start a thread of old routes with schedules?

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:08 pm**

flyer1225 wrote:
Old timetables are always fascinating, especially when seeing images of Qantas 707s in Acapulco, Iraqi Airways 747s in Rio de Janeiro, and Air India 707s in Prague, and wondering how on earth those routes were operated!

Nice examples.

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:11 pm**

TheEuphorian wrote:
Not to mention even weirder routes like a TG DC10 in NOU, CSA IL-62 in CGK, RG 744/MD11 in HKG, KL and QF in CTS, and you could go on and on with these old routes.

What's so strange about KLM serving Sapporo? :roll:

Posted: **Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:29 pm**

flyer1225 wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
MH-090 KUL 3.20pm 7.45pm TPE 9.15pm 6.15pm LAX 7.45pm 1.00am MEX
MH-091 MEX 9.20pm 11.00pm LAX 1.45am 6.15am TPE 8.00am 12.20pm KUL (operated in October 1996 as stated by departedflights.com)

Hope this helps!

Almost a full day on the ground in MEX?! The westbound TPAC flights work well because of this, but that's a massive chunk of time to sit on the ground.

It was one of the more expensive route to operate. Apart from LHR and CDG which crew loved to bits, they will also bid for this super long (back then) flight. The crew was literally away from Malaysia for two weeks when operating this route. KUL-TPE-LAX-MEX..KUL-TPE, change of crew, TPE-LAX, change of crew again and LAX-MEX, change of crew. Reverse, repeat. Each layover 2-3 days.

Once they are done for this long flight, they would do a domestic or regional flight and done for the month.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:12 am**

leftcoast8 wrote:
axing KUL-NRT-LAX in 2014

Does it has anything to do with their entry into Oneworld?
Can they fly KUL-LAX non-stop with their new A350 today?

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:38 am**

IQuit wrote:
leftcoast8 wrote:
axing KUL-NRT-LAX in 2014

Does it has anything to do with their entry into Oneworld?
Can they fly KUL-LAX non-stop with their new A350 today?

Yes, they code shared with oneworld airlines AA/JL/CX.

MH A359s cannot do KUL-LAX nonstop - this route would need the ULR version with reduced load.

In any case, the O&D market from Malaysia to US is virtually non existent due to Malaysian passport holders requiring a US visa. Malaysia is also not a tourist destination for US travellers. D7 - they operate KUL-KIX-HNL flights - report that most of the pax on the KIX-HNL sector are from Japan.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:23 am**

flee wrote:
In any case, the O&D market from Malaysia to US is virtually non existent due to Malaysian passport holders requiring a US visa.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Malaysia become part of the VWP within the next 5-10 years or so.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AMS%2C+BEY ... =wls&DU=mi

I created that Great Circle Mapper (not sure if this link is allowed, if not mods please delete) and it's pretty fascinating to see the drawdown of MH's long-haul network within just the past 10 years or so. Don't get me wrong a lot of these routes were flown for prestige and were probably nowhere close to profitable (KUL-BEY seems like an interesting route), nonetheless it is still quite sad to see how much they have reduced their long-haul ops.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:02 am**

USAirALB wrote:
I created that Great Circle Mapper (not sure if this link is allowed, if not mods please delete) and it's pretty fascinating to see the drawdown of MH's long-haul network within just the past 10 years or so. Don't get me wrong a lot of these routes were flown for prestige and were probably nowhere close to profitable (KUL-BEY seems like an interesting route), nonetheless it is still quite sad to see how much they have reduced their long-haul ops.

Most of the MH international network was a result of diplomatic relations. In the 1970s and 80s, the opening of embassies was followed by air services agreements being signed. However, in those days, air services were low frequency and the airline was wholly owned by the government. It was also not the bloated and top heavy gravy train that it became later on. Cutting those routes meant that the bleeding was stopped. However, the top heavy structure still needs more surgery. And we have yet to see a good and sustainable business plan for the airline be presented. It is not easy in today's competitive environment with high oil prices. That was why the Malaysian govt. did not discount shutting it down if it is not possible to keep it alive on a sustainable commercial basis.

Airliners.net

Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?

Re: Did Malaysia Airlines fly to Mexico, Argentina, Canada & USA in its heyday!?