AirFiero
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:27 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
DL is over 5 (!) times bigger at SFO than at SJC, but SJC is the focus city?


So maybe they will pull down some SFO for SJC? :)
 
crownvic
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:33 am

HVNandrew wrote:
As others have said, this appears to be more marketing than operationally related, but it's interested to see where DL is looking to direct its focus (no pun intended). The outlier does seem to be SJC. Given how DL has expanded regionally at LAS (to California) and even their limited long-haul out of the airport (to HNL and AMS a few weeks out of the year), I figured they would be the next airport to receive some sort of special designation. DL really should open a club there.

gatibosgru wrote:
Terminal A def needs CBP for Delta to fully utilize BOS as a secondary transatlantic hub

I have wondered quite a bit about this especially as DL has ramped up international flying/connections through BOS. Is connecting in BOS a pain with having to switch terminals? Logistically is it difficult to ferry the planes over from E to A?


I personally think DL blew an opportunity at LAS. When they should have been growing the market there, they procrastinated and allowed both Spirit and Frontier to muscle their way in and build up sizeable operations. As much as I have hoped for DL's growth at LAS (including a SkyClub), now they are going up against WN, Frontier and Spirit. Not an easy thing to do as a full service airline. You snooze, you lose!
 
Noise
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:34 am

will this mean we'll see RDU-SJC nonstop with DL?
 
SDFguy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:36 am

Capn wrote:
Moderators:
Could you please re- open the DTW thread so that the 2 DTW TROLLS get their playpen back?
Thanks in advance


Amen! The DTW trolls make threads on here absolutely unbearable to read. It's ridiculous.
 
airbazar
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:36 am

DL747400 wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Terminal A def needs CBP for Delta to fully utilize BOS as a secondary transatlantic hub


Ha! Tell that to Massport!


It's a lot more complicated than that. Terminal A is really limited in the number of widebody gates it can handle, especially the A330. If DL had CBP at terminal A and chose to use it, some of these widebodies that now go to E would be parked at A tying up gates in the early afternoon. That would translate into fewer possible flights/routes. As someone posted above, terminal A's lack of gates is a bigger constraint than the lack of CBP.
Currently DL parks the aircraft at the North Cargo between arrivals at E and departures from A. I was just there this afternoon and there were 3 DL aircraft parked at North Cargo awaiting to be towed to A. Presumably they had just arrived from Europe. There is no space near terminal A to park large aircraft, AFAIK.
As for the inbound transfer between terminals, it's actually pretty easy. There's a direct bridge between terminals E and A with moving walkways. Sadly, the walkways were stopped for maintenance today. Leave it to Massport to wait until the busiest season to perform maintenance on the moving walkways. It's not like they didn't have all Winter to do that :)
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:40 am

DL’s definition of focus city clearly isn’t volume, but relative size at the airport (SJC compared to SFO) or region (Austin’s service in Texas).
 
SDFguy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:41 am

flyPIT wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
indygs wrote:
Interesting. Kinda curious IND is not mentioned given that they've invested heavily with the CDG route and others, but to the point made earlier, would love to see what 'focus city' actually means.


Hopefully IND isn't about to get the PIT treatment from DL.


The PIT-CDG flight was just discussed in the PIT thread, but other than that I think DL has been good to PIT. Adding PIT-BOS which is now 5x daily, increasing LGA twice, adding RDU, adding SLC, upgauging CUN. If only they add PIT-LAX.

As for IND, the only mention I’ve seen of it becoming a focus city is in the A.net IND thread. Extravagant rumors such as a nonstop to Asia by the end of 2018, it was one of 3 finalists for Amazon’s HQ2, and was on the verge of becoming a DL focus city. None of which obviously was true so I don’t put much stock in the DL IND focus city rumor. That’s not to say it can’t happen in the future.


They still think they are getting a non-stop flight to Asia, lol. But yes, it was quite funny to read how adamant they all were that IND was definitely getting a non-stop to Asia by the end of 2018. My favorite was the one poster who said ANA was going to start a non-stop to Tokyo because they saw a big box in the IND airport that had the same colors as ANA :lol:
 
FGITD
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:44 am

airbazar wrote:
As for the inbound transfer between terminals, it's actually pretty easy. There's a direct bridge between terminals E and A with moving walkways. Sadly, the walkways were stopped for maintenance today. Leave it to Massport to wait until the busiest season to perform maintenance on the moving walkways. It's not like they didn't have all Winter to do that :)



Strong probability that if terminal A and CBP, AF KLM and Virgin would all want to move in. No space for any of them.
Funny enough, those moving walkways were actually shut down in the winter. Apparently it's a long term project, somehow
 
N292UX
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:44 am

B1168 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
I wonder if DL will try to link all of their focus cities up to each other. If that's the case, we'd be seeing CVG-BNA resume, plus the launch of CVG-SJC. We'd also see RDU/AUS/BNA-SJC.

A few other routes I can see:
IND-AUS/BNA
SJC-DEN
PDX-AUS/SJC
DCA-BNA? They'd have to cut a frequency from another route or get slots, though.
AUS/RDU-LAS
BNA-BDL
BNA-FLL/RSW
BNA-MCO
SJC-SAN
SJC-PHX
SJC-HNL
SJC-AMS? Maybe wishful thinking
BNA-CDG or AMS
AUS-AMS
BNA-TPA


One question. Since AUS-CDG is unserved, is there any compelling evidence that AUS-AMS would yield more than CDG? It is fairly counterintuitive to fly to a smaller city wit similar connectivity, at least for me.

I believe it's mainly connection purposes. There's been a lot of rumors about DL launching AUS-AMS, but not much has been said yet about AUS-CDG. It'd be interesting to see if they could co-exist. It's possible.
 
VictorKilo
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:53 am

If there is a flight from SJC to Asia my guess is that it will be a flight to ICN, either on KE or perhaps a DL A339. And perhaps some SJC flights from LGB will be forthcoming, along with some nerd bird flying.

The economics of thin Europe to BOS or DTW are probably based on 321XLR or 797 models and not on current 757 economics. Plus DL is competing with itself and the numerous one stops through AMS, whereas the market from BOS is more gain and less lost.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:00 am

Fargo wrote:
Is BNA and SJC realistically going to see more p2p flying as a result of this? It’s not a true focus city if it only has hub and focus city flying.

Actually, does SJC even have a club?


BNA a focus city... wow... if only someone on this forum had made the argument that this was happening months ago... wait a minute...

klm617 wrote:
Facts DTW can reach quite a bit of western Europe with the 757 it has had DTW-FRA flights on a 757. Fact BOS has more seats to Europe based on O/D than Detroit has so BOS is already over saturated and Detroit is underserved.


This thread is about BOS and Delta's named focus cities SJC, BNA and AUS - not DTW. Stay on topic.

klm617 wrote:
I think the writing is on the wall for SEA as I think Delta is going to develope SJC into it's Western hub to Asia so it can better compete with UA at SFO since it can't grow anymore in SEA.


That's such a ridiculous statement I can't tell if you're being serious. Are you saying that you genuinely think Delta will grow SJC in a way where it will eventually surpass SEA in capacity? If that's what you think state it outright.
 
Fargo
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:21 am

winginit wrote:
BNA a focus city... wow... if only someone on this forum had made the argument that this was happening months ago... wait a minute...


Looking forward to all those new p2p flights that DL will launch out of BNA, and the TATL service too!

In all seriousness, I don’t see how they are going to add anything beyond a few frequency increases and TATL service, they have little gate space and BNA is over capacity right now. I don’t think this focus city designation is the same as what CVG/RDU is.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:32 am

SANFan wrote:
I find SJC to be an interesting story. AS has a focus operation there so here we go again - AS vs. DL in the Bay Area intensifies. And of course WN is also growing SJC big-time lately. Apparently SJC is adding 6 new gates currently so I will be watching to see how those are assigned (or utilized) between the cx.

I'll be very curious to see if the traffic is really there for 3 cx' large operations. And will DL entertain some PDX-like int'l routes from SJC?

I will be keeping an eye on this situation.

bb


I think DL will have 4 total with this expansion, not sure how many they currently have.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:14 am

B1168 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Actually I think their plans are to move the SEA operation down to SJC to be more competitive to Asia.


I think SJC will compliment SEA. DL probably wishes they had applied for SJC-HND, instead of PDX-HND! But I think DL will launch SJC-HKG, SJC-TPE and SJC-SIN -- routes that SEA likely can't support. In the future, we'll probably also see SJC-NGO, SJC-KIX, SJC-PEK and SJC-PVG. DL will probably end DTW-NGO and DTW-PEK to support growth of the SJC hub. SJC has a much higher GDP and million dollar average home listing whereas in DTW, you can buy a home for $1.

Most likely equipment:
SJC-HKG = 339 or 359
SJC-SIN = 359
SJC-TPE = 763
SJC-NGO = 763
SJC-KIX = 763
SJC-PEK = 763
SJC-PVG = 333


I think I can put it fairly clear here: I would be profoundly surprised if any of them materialize in the next 5 years. Air China once operated 2 weekly of PVG-SJC on A332, and their LF was a nightmare... that plug was subsequently unplugged in favor of PEK-SFO(or IAH?). And given that they already quitted HKG+how far SIN is+limited demand from Japanese cities outside TYO+NH existing SJC-NRT flight, I would be super surprised if any of that come true.


I think SJC is right sized to Asia right now. I think the NH and HU flights do decent and hold their own. Not sure SJC could support a whole dump of new overseas service there. Maybe KE to ICN might work as part of the JV.

Same with Europe. LH didn’t last but I think BA does fine. Maybe you could try SJC-AMS or CDG with a KL or AF 787.
 
questions
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:23 am

Delta’s use of the term, “focus city” is not what people on here want it to be. It is not a “mini hub” with lots of flights to Delta hubs, a bunch of non-hub flights and a handful of international routes.

From Delta’s perspective it is a “focus city” because it’s a market where Delta believes there is a lot of potential economic growth and where Delta believes they have an opportunity for profitable growth — through increased market share, attraction of premium flyers and obtaining corporate contracts (that have an interest in the market). It is where Delta is focusing its resources for additional growth — where to play, how to win.

Delta Hub Cities:
ATL
JFK
BOS
DTW
MSP
SLC
LAX
SEA

Delta Focus Cities:
RDU
CVG*
BNA
AUS
SJC


*CVG is only on the list for political reasons.
 
cessna2
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:54 am

This calls for an "I told ya so!". Congrats to AUS, SJC, BNA, and BOS!
 
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compensateme
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:16 am

cessna2 wrote:
This calls for an "I told ya so!". Congrats to AUS, SJC, BNA, and BOS!


No, you said RDU was being upgraded to a “Tier 1 Hub” and it appears RDU will remain a focus city indefinitely.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
mandargb
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:35 am

Adding so many asia routes to SJC is not happening anytime soon (SIN and TPE seems too much to imagine)
SJC really has small facilities for CBP etc.
Most likely looks SJC-ICN. and SJC-CDG. (I guess SJC-CDG existed previously on AA 777)
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:52 am

mandargb wrote:
Adding so many asia routes to SJC is not happening anytime soon (SIN and TPE seems too much to imagine)
SJC really has small facilities for CBP etc.
Most likely looks SJC-ICN. and SJC-CDG. (I guess SJC-CDG existed previously on AA 777)


SJC-CDG existed for six months on a 767-300ER. SJC-TPE existed for those same six months on a 777.

So no, TPE isn’t too hard to imagine.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:17 am

questions wrote:
Delta Focus Cities:
RDU
CVG*
BNA
AUS
SJC


*CVG is only on the list for political reasons.

What "political reasons" would those be?
 
questions
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:10 am

flyguy89 wrote:
questions wrote:
Delta Focus Cities:
RDU
CVG*
BNA
AUS
SJC


*CVG is only on the list for political reasons.

What "political reasons" would those be?


Guess.
 
questions
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:13 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
SJC-TPE existed for those same six months on a 777.


Which airline?
 
AirFiero
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:26 am

questions wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
SJC-TPE existed for those same six months on a 777.


Which airline?


AA, back in their hub days. It was glorious. :D
 
N649DL
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:30 am

As much as I love DL, this announcement comes as a shocker to me overall:

I was just in AUS two weeks ago. Other than the Sky Club Construction (and signage for it), there's hardly any mention to be made on DL out of this so-called "Focus City." I fly DL a lot as a status member but I'm not seeing when they'll expand in Austin. The biggest surprise was how LAX-AUS nearly 3 years ago was a E175 and when I flew it just now it was a 738.

BNA: In a sense that they have a larger presence there (and there's likely gate space) but odd they would ditch the MEM ex-NW hub in favor of a Focus City at BNA. They had that at MEM, but I supposed it's for O&D at BNA? IDK.

SJC is the largest surprise. I was just in SFO in Feb. flying DL and other than a beautiful Sky Club, it was largely deserted around 5pm. I have no idea what they want with SJC when they're wanting to concentrate on SEA and LAX overall. LAS is already a big DL station, why not make that a Focus City? That already failed on AA in a different economy, and then they have to compete with AS as well.
Last edited by N649DL on Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:30 am

questions wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
questions wrote:
Delta Focus Cities:
RDU
CVG*
BNA
AUS
SJC


*CVG is only on the list for political reasons.

What "political reasons" would those be?


Guess.

If I had known what you meant, I wouldn't have asked.
 
laca773
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:48 am

In regards to SJC as a focus city, I can see some merit in it. They can market it in a way to avoid the typical marked delays most days have out of SFO while SJC has very very few.

DL also has a great new aircraft, the A220-1 (221) & the A220-3 (223) which will allow them to add p2p service where they normally wouldn't be able to as either the a/c are too large or don't have the range to fly some of these routes.
Perhaps if a slot becomes available, DL will add SJC-DCA with a 221 or a 223 to start and upgauge from there.
Perhaps we will see 3-4x weekly SJC-MCO on the 221/223.
SJC-BOS on a A319 or 738. Time it for the tech industry.
How's their JFK flight doing? I suspect if they departed earlier, they would have more onward transatlantic connections.
SEA & SLC both will become regular 221 routes or upgauged on certain slots due to demand.
LAX seems fine with current service, though more mainline will probably replace some of the DLC flights.
ATL 3-4x/day B738/739/757/A321
MSP 2-3x/day A319/320/321, A221/223
DTW 1-2x/day B738
RDU 4x/week. A221
AUS 1x/day A221

Southern California & Hawaii: I don't see happening. Those markets are well covered or too much.

International:
SJC-ICN with JV partner, KE 4-5x/week to start with their B787-9. A lot of demand for transiting passengers to SE Asian markets. If they market this flight, it might be a big success & go daily as well.

SJC-CDG/AMS on DL or KL, AF. Either route 4-5×/week during high season. DL B767 (eventually A330) or KL/AF B787-9.
IMO, LH City Line flopped due to operating a fuel guzzling A340-300 which was too large to start. They Needed a fuel efficient, lower capacity B787 to have a chance.

Mexico. AM has tried & not done too well in SJC. They moved way too slow into the market after MX's demise.
SJC-GDL is well served by AS & Y4.
SJC-MEX is a tricky market as it is from most cities. AM tried & dropped it. Perhaps with DL creating SJC into a focus city operation & if they re-timed the southbound leg to be a redeye they would have better luck?
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:06 am

laca773 wrote:
In regards to SJC as a focus city, I can see some merit in it. They can market it in a way to avoid the typical marked delays most days have out of SFO while SJC has very very few.

DL also has a great new aircraft, the A220-1 (221) & the A220-3 (223) which will allow them to add p2p service where they normally wouldn't be able to as either the a/c are too large or don't have the range to fly some of these routes.
Perhaps if a slot becomes available, DL will add SJC-DCA with a 221 or a 223 to start and upgauge from there.
Perhaps we will see 3-4x weekly SJC-MCO on the 221/223.
SJC-BOS on a A319 or 738. Time it for the tech industry.
How's their JFK flight doing? I suspect if they departed earlier, they would have more onward transatlantic connections.
SEA & SLC both will become regular 221 routes or upgauged on certain slots due to demand.
LAX seems fine with current service, though more mainline will probably replace some of the DLC flights.
ATL 3-4x/day B738/739/757/A321
MSP 2-3x/day A319/320/321, A221/223
DTW 1-2x/day B738
RDU 4x/week. A221
AUS 1x/day A221

Southern California & Hawaii: I don't see happening. Those markets are well covered or too much.

International:
SJC-ICN with JV partner, KE 4-5x/week to start with their B787-9. A lot of demand for transiting passengers to SE Asian markets. If they market this flight, it might be a big success & go daily as well.

SJC-CDG/AMS on DL or KL, AF. Either route 4-5×/week during high season. DL B767 (eventually A330) or KL/AF B787-9.
IMO, LH City Line flopped due to operating a fuel guzzling A340-300 which was too large to start. They Needed a fuel efficient, lower capacity B787 to have a chance.

Mexico. AM has tried & not done too well in SJC. They moved way too slow into the market after MX's demise.
SJC-GDL is well served by AS & Y4.
SJC-MEX is a tricky market as it is from most cities. AM tried & dropped it. Perhaps with DL creating SJC into a focus city operation & if they re-timed the southbound leg to be a redeye they would have better luck?


What is your fantasy job?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:10 am

N649DL wrote:
SJC is the largest surprise. I was just in SFO in Feb. flying DL and other than a beautiful Sky Club, it was largely deserted around 5pm. I have no idea what they want with SJC when they're wanting to concentrate on SEA and LAX overall. LAS is already a big DL station, why not make that a Focus City?


The short answer is that DOT reports show higher average fares for SJC than LAS. That may be the only answer needed, frankly.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:34 am

BOS could make a great TATL Hub for Delta. Its close enough to Europe that standard A321LRs should reach most of Western Europe as well as Scandinavia yearround (no need to wait for the XLR). Especially to open up/reopen new cities.
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:46 pm

The airline that will be really interested in this will be UA, they have a bunch of large Corporate clients in the Bay Area with various outposts in each of these cities. For the most part, UA has had to do little in the way of fighting on a lot of these routes, but that might have to change. UA is very protective when it comes to the Bay Area.
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twicearound
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:51 pm

airbazar wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Terminal A def needs CBP for Delta to fully utilize BOS as a secondary transatlantic hub


Ha! Tell that to Massport!


It's a lot more complicated than that. Terminal A is really limited in the number of widebody gates it can handle, especially the A330. If DL had CBP at terminal A and chose to use it, some of these widebodies that now go to E would be parked at A tying up gates in the early afternoon. That would translate into fewer possible flights/routes. As someone posted above, terminal A's lack of gates is a bigger constraint than the lack of CBP.
Currently DL parks the aircraft at the North Cargo between arrivals at E and departures from A. I was just there this afternoon and there were 3 DL aircraft parked at North Cargo awaiting to be towed to A. Presumably they had just arrived from Europe. There is no space near terminal A to park large aircraft, AFAIK.
As for the inbound transfer between terminals, it's actually pretty easy. There's a direct bridge between terminals E and A with moving walkways. Sadly, the walkways were stopped for maintenance today. Leave it to Massport to wait until the busiest season to perform maintenance on the moving walkways. It's not like they didn't have all Winter to do that :)


There is adjacent space to park 2 widebodies next to the Fedex pad at A. They use is daily in the summer.
 
airbazar
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:33 pm

B752OS wrote:
I am wondering if Massport will help Delta out a bit given they're serious about Boston and growing Boston. We've discussed this in the Boston thread, runway 14/32 needs to go. That alone would open up a large amount of parking space for air craft.

I used to think the same way but changed my mind recently. That runway was built back in the day when BOS movements were at their peak due to the amount of turbo props and RJ's. Those types of aircraft pretty much disapeared from BOS and as a result the total movements took a dive. A few weeks ago I took a look at the total movements at BOS and they are growing just as fast as passengers, and fast approaching the all time high. That runway is going to start seeing a lot more use in the next few years and DL is going to love it for their A220's and it's so close to their terminal.

twicearound wrote:
There is adjacent space to park 2 widebodies next to the Fedex pad at A. They use is daily in the summer.

Thank you, I did not know that. I suspect at least one of those is the DUB flight which can arrive at A.
 
twicearound
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:51 pm

airbazar wrote:
B752OS wrote:
I am wondering if Massport will help Delta out a bit given they're serious about Boston and growing Boston. We've discussed this in the Boston thread, runway 14/32 needs to go. That alone would open up a large amount of parking space for air craft.

I used to think the same way but changed my mind recently. That runway was built back in the day when BOS movements were at their peak due to the amount of turbo props and RJ's. Those types of aircraft pretty much disapeared from BOS and as a result the total movements took a dive. A few weeks ago I took a look at the total movements at BOS and they are growing just as fast as passengers, and fast approaching the all time high. That runway is going to start seeing a lot more use in the next few years and DL is going to love it for their A220's and it's so close to their terminal.

twicearound wrote:
There is adjacent space to park 2 widebodies next to the Fedex pad at A. They use is daily in the summer.

Thank you, I did not know that. I suspect at least one of those is the DUB flight which can arrive at A.


The DUB flight goes right back out to SLC and vice versa on the DUB outbound. There isn't much ground time for that bird by design. Usually you'll see the LHR airbus and the CDG 767 over there.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:08 pm

airbazar wrote:
B752OS wrote:
I am wondering if Massport will help Delta out a bit given they're serious about Boston and growing Boston. We've discussed this in the Boston thread, runway 14/32 needs to go. That alone would open up a large amount of parking space for air craft.

I used to think the same way but changed my mind recently. That runway was built back in the day when BOS movements were at their peak due to the amount of turbo props and RJ's. Those types of aircraft pretty much disapeared from BOS and as a result the total movements took a dive. A few weeks ago I took a look at the total movements at BOS and they are growing just as fast as passengers, and fast approaching the all time high. That runway is going to start seeing a lot more use in the next few years and DL is going to love it for their A220's and it's so close to their terminal.

twicearound wrote:
There is adjacent space to park 2 widebodies next to the Fedex pad at A. They use is daily in the summer.

Thank you, I did not know that. I suspect at least one of those is the DUB flight which can arrive at A.


14/32 area is also used as a deicing area in winter, at least I’ve certainly seen it used that way in the past. Right now 2018 saw 424,000 movements, the record in 1998 was 507,000 the 18 number was roughly 6% higher than 17, so there is still room to grow and Massports theoretical maximums are in the 700,000 range. Gate space is the problem for all of that. 14/32 is also unidirectional and can only be used when certain wind configurations occur, so it might end up being a white elephant and used as a parking lot. At the moment direction 32 is used around 250 times a month for jet landings we have no info for props or any arrival data
http://www.massport.com/media/3163/apri ... shared.pdf
DL are definitely using South Cargo as a parking spot, saw that myself when leaving for PHL one day last month. Kind of makes sense as long as it doesn’t interfere with Fed Ex, which I doubt it does in the day time.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:21 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
The airline that will be really interested in this will be UA, they have a bunch of large Corporate clients in the Bay Area with various outposts in each of these cities. For the most part, UA has had to do little in the way of fighting on a lot of these routes, but that might have to change. UA is very protective when it comes to the Bay Area.


Aside from building a fortress hub at SFO, what has UA done to respond to competition in the Bay Area? They have a token presence at SJC and, if I remember correctly, zero presence at OAK? WN pretty much owns OAK, and has a huge chunk of SJC. AS obviously has, or has had, big plans at SJC and AA still has a decent sized footprint there.

If this DL announcement has substance rather than hype, I am not sure what it is they think they can accomplish there. And UA is going to jump into this, too?
 
Detroit313
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:27 pm

Call me when Delta flies between the 2nd and 3rd largest metro areas in the US, LAX - ORD.
 
B1168
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:28 pm

N292UX wrote:
B1168 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
I wonder if DL will try to link all of their focus cities up to each other. If that's the case, we'd be seeing CVG-BNA resume, plus the launch of CVG-SJC. We'd also see RDU/AUS/BNA-SJC.

A few other routes I can see:
IND-AUS/BNA
SJC-DEN
PDX-AUS/SJC
DCA-BNA? They'd have to cut a frequency from another route or get slots, though.
AUS/RDU-LAS
BNA-BDL
BNA-FLL/RSW
BNA-MCO
SJC-SAN
SJC-PHX
SJC-HNL
SJC-AMS? Maybe wishful thinking
BNA-CDG or AMS
AUS-AMS
BNA-TPA


One question. Since AUS-CDG is unserved, is there any compelling evidence that AUS-AMS would yield more than CDG? It is fairly counterintuitive to fly to a smaller city wit similar connectivity, at least for me.

I believe it's mainly connection purposes. There's been a lot of rumors about DL launching AUS-AMS, but not much has been said yet about AUS-CDG. It'd be interesting to see if they could co-exist. It's possible.


I understand their wish for connectivity. However, since AF and KL is essentially one airline with similar level of connectivity at both CDG and AMS, and CDG is a much larger OD market than AMS, I really don’t think AMS should be more prioritized than CDG.
Coexisting is indeed possible if they wish to... I would guess 4-5 weekly on CDG and 2-3 on AMS.
 
bhxalex
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:28 pm

Realistically what new TATL routes can we expect from DL at BOS?
 
Detroit313
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:43 pm

In many of the cities they call focus cities or even hubs other legacy airlines are bigger than them and they don't consider them anything.

American and United would never call such tiny operations hubs and focus cities. It is laughable.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:45 pm

bhxalex wrote:
Realistically what new TATL routes can we expect from DL at BOS?


BRU and GVA are the first two to come to mind. Maybe they'll beat TP to OPO on an LR if they order them.
@DadCelo
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:09 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
The airline that will be really interested in this will be UA, they have a bunch of large Corporate clients in the Bay Area with various outposts in each of these cities. For the most part, UA has had to do little in the way of fighting on a lot of these routes, but that might have to change. UA is very protective when it comes to the Bay Area.


Aside from building a fortress hub at SFO, what has UA done to respond to competition in the Bay Area? They have a token presence at SJC and, if I remember correctly, zero presence at OAK? WN pretty much owns OAK, and has a huge chunk of SJC. AS obviously has, or has had, big plans at SJC and AA still has a decent sized footprint there.

If this DL announcement has substance rather than hype, I am not sure what it is they think they can accomplish there. And UA is going to jump into this, too?


https://www.travelcodex.com/united-beef ... to-alaska/

So far UA hasn't responded much to WN, since I doubt they see them as much of a threat. AA in SJC is due to the old hub there, in addition to the AA/AS partnership

Sure, their effort isn't Bay Area wide, but if DL adds a significant amount of p2p to SJC UA will respond from SFO, just like they did with AS.
Last edited by Midwestindy on Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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capitalflyer
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:16 pm

I think the hub announcement is more about international connectivity than anything else. As mentioned before it is at an ideal distance for 321 to western Europe and has a large O&D base. This is sort of similar to what UA is in the process of doing at EWR to make the best use of limited space. Any substantial international growth for DL can't come at JFK since it is full (only upgauging possible) but BOS has space.

I do not see BOS becoming a domestic hub any time soon however. They will keep domestic flights to small markets for some international feed only. Domestic connections will increasingly be fed into DTW. DTW is similar to IAD, both third hubs (in the east at least) that have plenty of space and can efficiently help folks who want to fly from Roanoke, VA to Albuquerque, NM.

So if DL and UA seem to be making similar moves in regards to restricted space eastern hubs, will AA soon follow suit? Possibly at CLT?
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:20 pm

bhxalex wrote:
Realistically what new TATL routes can we expect from DL at BOS?


I would think they might throw in some seasonal routes - running late April through late September or Early October to places like Rome, Milan, Barcelona, Madrid, Porto, Brussels, etc. Boston to Europe is already very well served to Europe (perhaps over served like a number of US cities currently are) so adding in some seasonal capacity that they help fill with connecting traffic would make sense to the cities I have listed.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:24 pm

N649DL wrote:
BNA: In a sense that they have a larger presence there (and there's likely gate space) but odd they would ditch the MEM ex-NW hub in favor of a Focus City at BNA. They had that at MEM, but I supposed it's for O&D at BNA? IDK.


Look at the regional economic performance in Nashville as compared to Memphis and you'll have your answer.

B752OS wrote:
Massport would have to work a number of things out to allow Delta to expand the satellite concourse to add more gates - you have the ventilation building for the Ted Williams tunnel, the cargo facilities and Massport fire. If Massport really wants to open things up, get rid of runway 14/32, shift all of the cargo buildings in its place and that would allow an extention to be built that would allow 8-9 wide-body gates to be built. Of course this would require a lot of moving pieces to fall into place and it unlikely to happen. But the point is that there is space for some expansion.


IMO the best way to accomplish this would be to move Economy Parking to the location of the surface lots northeast of the A satellite or to the taxi pool lot south of the Massport office building (or even somewhere else off the current airport footprint), move the South Cargo facilities to the location of the Economy Parking garage (and Mass. State Police building), and then use the entire footprint (including Harborside Dr., which would be truncated at the Hyatt) for a double-loaded linear concourse connected to both Terminal A and the AA side of B by an underground train.

BTV290 wrote:
However, the problem comes with the towing operation. Several of BOS's TATL flights are consistently delayed by 30-60 minutes due to the a/c arriving to the gates late by tow. Sometimes, catering and cabin service haven't been able to get to them either.


That's just a matter of staffing or managing the operation. And in any event, there's really no other choice. The aircraft can't stay at E all afternoon (it's too busy). E is too busy in the early evening to accommodate DL's aircraft for departures to Europe.

DLHAM wrote:
BOS could make a great TATL Hub for Delta. Its close enough to Europe that standard A321LRs should reach most of Western Europe as well as Scandinavia yearround (no need to wait for the XLR). Especially to open up/reopen new cities.


One other point: There's much less of a capacity crunch at A after 7 PM and departures from 8 PM to 11 PM to Europe with 757/A321 equipment would offer reasonably well-timed arrivals; i.e. the 10 PM BOS-EDI flight arrives at 9:25 AM.
 
msycajun
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:29 pm

To me Delta is redefining the term focus city and applying it liberally to get some free press. Get back to me when they start announcing routes that would suggest a real focus city. RDU and CVG fit the definition in my mind, but I haven't seen anything apart from larger Sky Clubs to suggest a DL focus in AUS, BNA, or SJC. I'm not saying it won't happen, but all of this talk with no action is tiresome.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:30 pm

compensateme wrote:
cessna2 wrote:
This calls for an "I told ya so!". Congrats to AUS, SJC, BNA, and BOS!


No, you said RDU was being upgraded to a “Tier 1 Hub” and it appears RDU will remain a focus city indefinitely.


There is no room at RDU for it to be a Full Teir 1 Hub unless AA up and abandons 8-9 Gates.
RDU will remain a Focus City. A busy one.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
airbazar
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:01 pm

B752OS wrote:
bhxalex wrote:
Realistically what new TATL routes can we expect from DL at BOS?


I would think they might throw in some seasonal routes - running late April through late September or Early October to places like Rome, Milan, Barcelona, Madrid, Porto, Brussels, etc. Boston to Europe is already very well served to Europe (perhaps over served like a number of US cities currently are) so adding in some seasonal capacity that they help fill with connecting traffic would make sense to the cities I have listed.

I wouldn't forget about ATH. In fact i'm a little shocked they added LIS instead of ATH this Summer.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:22 pm

Why isn't CLE considered a focus city since they have service to BDL?
 
HVNandrew
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:27 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
In many of the cities they call focus cities or even hubs other legacy airlines are bigger than them and they don't consider them anything.

American and United would never call such tiny operations hubs and focus cities. It is laughable.

AA and UA don't really have anything comparable that they could call hubs or focus cities; they overwhelmingly operate hub flying and do not operate extensive P2P networks, with the most notable exceptions probably being the remaining P2P networks out of BOS (AA) and CLE (UA). DL on the other hand has built a relatively sizeable P2P market (at some of these "focus cities") over the past several years, including a large operation at BOS, and smaller P2P operations at places like RDU and LAS, while keeping sizeable P2P networks at CVG and MCO, both former hubs. It's really just a different network strategy than AA and UA have embraced.
 
Lexy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:32 pm

msycajun wrote:
To me Delta is redefining the term focus city and applying it liberally to get some free press. Get back to me when they start announcing routes that would suggest a real focus city. RDU and CVG fit the definition in my mind, but I haven't seen anything apart from larger Sky Clubs to suggest a DL focus in AUS, BNA, or SJC. I'm not saying it won't happen, but all of this talk with no action is tiresome.



Well all three are larger markets than MSY so there’s that. Also, much larger, faster growing, and more idle metros.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA

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