nycilley02
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U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Wed May 15, 2019 7:06 pm

Breaking news that the Trump Administration has suspended flights between the US and Venezuela due to safety concerns. I wonder how this will affect the airlines and passengers involved.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vene ... SKCN1SL2F2
 
winginit
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Wed May 15, 2019 7:08 pm

Apart from charters are there scheduled carriers besides the below?

Avior: MIA-CCS/BLA
Estelar: MIA-CCS/MAR

Seems the impact won't be meaningful at all.
 
OB1504
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Wed May 15, 2019 7:10 pm

There was only 1 flight left: Avior Airlines operating MIA-BLA with their A340.

World Atlantic was operating MIA-CCS with an MD-80 on behalf of Avior and Eastern was operating MIA-CCS with a 767 on behalf of Estelar, but those flights stopped several weeks ago. Passengers from both flights were being reaccommodated on the Avior MIA-BLA flight, which had a second frequency added on some days.

Swift Air was operating MIA-CCS with a 737 on behalf of LASER, but has since truncated it to MIA-SDQ, with passengers connecting to a LASER MD-80 to continue to CCS.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Wed May 15, 2019 7:23 pm

Here is the DOT order
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... ezuela.pdf

Certainly good news for 3rd nation carriers like Copa.

Order also covers freighter service between the nations.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
bennett123
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Wed May 15, 2019 8:00 pm

So is this saying that if you fly to Venezuela you are banned from flying to the USA.
 
nycilley02
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Wed May 15, 2019 8:40 pm

bennett123 wrote:
So is this saying that if you fly to Venezuela you are banned from flying to the USA.

No. Just saying that direct flights between the two countries are no longer possible. You can still fly between them via a third country.
 
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spinkid
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Wed May 15, 2019 8:54 pm

nycilley02 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
So is this saying that if you fly to Venezuela you are banned from flying to the USA.

No. Just saying that direct flights between the two countries are no longer possible. You can still fly between them via a third country.


Precisely. It puts Venezuela in a position like BEY. U.S. Security officials feel that Venezuela cannot offer security at their airports to bombs, hijackers, etc. off aircraft.

I'm sure there are lots of other countries in this situation. They are the only one in the Americas that I can think of at the moment. It goes to show the decline in the country.
 
Western727
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Wed May 15, 2019 9:23 pm

So sad. I spent spring break there once during my undergraduate days, in 1997. AVENSA 72S YV-92C MIA-CCS, connecting to D95 YV-90C to BLA. Mid-week we did a day trip on AeroEjecutivos DC-3 YV-440C to CAJ (Canaima, near Angel Falls) during which we did a scenic fly-by of the falls, before flying back to the states on 3 straight 72Ss (AVENSA for the flights to MIA and then AA to BWI).

Chávez wouldn't become Venezuela's president for almost two years. We had a great time and the people of Venezuela were fantastic.
Jack @ AUS
 
ualcsr
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Wed May 15, 2019 10:13 pm

At its peak, does anyone know how many daily flights there were between MIA-CCS? I worked at UA in the late 90s/early 2000s and we had one daily flight and for a few years, a seasonal second flight. There was even talk of a third flight. My how things have changed.
 
Western727
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 1:00 pm

ualcsr wrote:
At its peak, does anyone know how many daily flights there were between MIA-CCS? I worked at UA in the late 90s/early 2000s and we had one daily flight and for a few years, a seasonal second flight. There was even talk of a third flight. My how things have changed.


That's a great question, and I hope someone can answer that better than I can here:

Departedflights.com lists in AA's July 2001 schedule the following MIA-CCS flights:
2 AB6
2 752
1 72S

Additionally, PA had a single daily flight on a 747 (!!!!) in February 1987. EA had a single flight (aircraft unknown) in August of 1987. UA's latest timetable on the aforementioned site is "only" from August of 1982 and did not show any MIA-CCS flights, though that's obviously well in advance of your UA stint.
Jack @ AUS
 
ualcsr
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 1:16 pm

Western727 wrote:
ualcsr wrote:
At its peak, does anyone know how many daily flights there were between MIA-CCS? I worked at UA in the late 90s/early 2000s and we had one daily flight and for a few years, a seasonal second flight. There was even talk of a third flight. My how things have changed.


That's a great question, and I hope someone can answer that better than I can here:

Departedflights.com lists in AA's July 2001 schedule the following MIA-CCS flights:
2 AB6
2 752
1 72S

Additionally, PA had a single daily flight on a 747 (!!!!) in February 1987. EA had a single flight (aircraft unknown) in August of 1987. UA's latest timetable on the aforementioned site is "only" from August of 1982 and did not show any MIA-CCS flights, though that's obviously well in advance of your UA stint.


Thanks for the info!!!! That was a lot of capacity for AA but the demand was definitely there. I flew MIA-CCS many times and the flights were always full, sometimes even had to go MIA-SJU-CCS on AA because MIA-CCS was full. I believe Avensa, Servivensa and Aeropostal also flew the route, although not sure if all at the same time, and LAN had a weekly MIA-CCS-SCL flight. We used to send pax to Aeropostal (or was it Avensa?) when we were overbooked or if our flight canceled. Thanks again for the info!!
 
sw733
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 1:21 pm

Western727 wrote:
So sad. I spent spring break there once during my undergraduate days, in 1997. AVENSA 72S YV-92C MIA-CCS, connecting to D95 YV-90C to BLA. Mid-week we did a day trip on AeroEjecutivos DC-3 YV-440C to CAJ (Canaima, near Angel Falls) during which we did a scenic fly-by of the falls, before flying back to the states on 3 straight 72Ss (AVENSA for the flights to MIA and then AA to BWI).

Chávez wouldn't become Venezuela's president for almost two years. We had a great time and the people of Venezuela were fantastic.


I was there for a short period of time during the Chavez years, visiting my cousin who was doing a semester of study abroad in Valencia. That was 2011, and while I knew things weren't great, it is amazing how different it is just eight years later...I certainly wouldn't visit right now. Hope I can again someday, it was beautiful and the people so welcoming.
 
hohd
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 1:34 pm

Politics is playing into this. So far there has been no single incident especially involving safety or terrorism concerns, if a new government forms and is favorable to Trump administration, suddenly all the safety concerns are gone and flights will be allowed again. Anyway it is good news for Mexican and Copa airlines they get to pick up the high yielding traffic.
 
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Polot
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 1:59 pm

hohd wrote:
Politics is playing into this. So far there has been no single incident especially involving safety or terrorism concerns, if a new government forms and is favorable to Trump administration, suddenly all the safety concerns are gone and flights will be allowed again. Anyway it is good news for Mexican and Copa airlines they get to pick up the high yielding traffic.

No Mexican airlines fly into CCS (I’m not sure about the rest of Venezuela). Copa is the only airline still flying there that would benefit from this.

While politics are probably partially in play, waiting until after an incident involving safety (involving aircraft directly) and terrorism is bad policy. Venezuela is volatile right now, and sometimes it is better to be safe than sorry. You don’t want there to be an incident/accident and then tell the families of the victims “hey we knew things were dangerous and unstable there, but there hadn’t been an incident yet!”
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 2:19 pm

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/06/venezuela-biggest-airport-is-in-free-fall/561875/

A brief rundown on why airlines were leaving BEFORE the security situation spiraled out of any semblance of control.

Security situation or not, what has driven airlines to flee Venezuela is the loss of money. Both Chavez and Maduro have refused to convert the Bolivares into Dollars, hence why so many airlines have lost vast sums of money in Venezuela. For a while flights continued, but only for those who could find a way to pay in dollars. Empty flights going in, packed to the gills with those able to afford the exorbitant cost of fleeing.

It's heartbreaking, but it is reality.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 1951
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 2:34 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/06/venezuela-biggest-airport-is-in-free-fall/561875/

A brief rundown on why airlines were leaving BEFORE the security situation spiraled out of any semblance of control.

Security situation or not, what has driven airlines to flee Venezuela is the loss of money. Both Chavez and Maduro have refused to convert the Bolivares into Dollars, hence why so many airlines have lost vast sums of money in Venezuela. For a while flights continued, but only for those who could find a way to pay in dollars. Empty flights going in, packed to the gills with those able to afford the exorbitant cost of fleeing.

It's heartbreaking, but it is reality.

Absolutely incorrect, as has been pointed out (as this claim is always made) in virtually every thread on Venezuela in the last 3 years or so. No foreign airlines have been selling tickets in bolívares for at least 4 years (with extremely rare exceptions).
 
MalevTU134
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Polot wrote:
hohd wrote:
Politics is playing into this. So far there has been no single incident especially involving safety or terrorism concerns, if a new government forms and is favorable to Trump administration, suddenly all the safety concerns are gone and flights will be allowed again. Anyway it is good news for Mexican and Copa airlines they get to pick up the high yielding traffic.

No Mexican airlines fly into CCS (I’m not sure about the rest of Venezuela). Copa is the only airline still flying there that would benefit from this.

While politics are probably partially in play, waiting until after an incident involving safety (involving aircraft directly) and terrorism is bad policy. Venezuela is volatile right now, and sometimes it is better to be safe than sorry. You don’t want there to be an incident/accident and then tell the families of the victims “hey we knew things were dangerous and unstable there, but there hadn’t been an incident yet!”

No Mexican airlines into Venezuela at all. AM left in 2016.

Ironically, those who could make a killing now are CU, if they started HAV-MIA with good connections to CCS. CM's flights out of CCS/MAR/VLN are full, so cannot accomodate or replace lost capacity on MIA-CCS. And CM are not very polular for political reasons with the dictatorship in Caracas, so they will hardly be awarded more frequencies.
 
NickWebb
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 2:45 pm

In 1983 there would be Viasa DC10s, Pan Am 747s and Eastern TriStars, all flying daily to the US.
[photoid][/photoid]/Users/nickwebb/Desktop/FullSizeRender.jpg
 
dcajet
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 2:52 pm

hohd wrote:
Politics is playing into this. So far there has been no single incident especially involving safety or terrorism concerns, if a new government forms and is favorable to Trump administration, suddenly all the safety concerns are gone and flights will be allowed again. Anyway it is good news for Mexican and Copa airlines they get to pick up the high yielding traffic.


So your suggestion would be to wait for some event to actually happen and then lets worry about it? Venezuela and its airports & airlines are an event waiting to happen. During the country-wide power outages a few weeks ago, CCS was operating in the dark (there are videos on the web about it) as well as accounts of passengers and crew of an Air Europa flight to MAD that was boarded with almost non existent or very rudimentary security controls.

Ironically, those who could make a killing now are CU, if they started HAV-MIA with good connections to CCS.


Chuckle. Indeed an irony. But then, CU would need to be run with a commercial mindset instead of being Cuba's Communist Party in the Air. Then it would need planes, that it does not have in ample supply. And third, the moment any Cubana asset lands in MIA or any US port of entry, it'd be embargoed by the US courts.
Last edited by dcajet on Thu May 16, 2019 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
MalevTU134
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 2:55 pm

dcajet wrote:
hohd wrote:
Politics is playing into this. So far there has been no single incident especially involving safety or terrorism concerns, if a new government forms and is favorable to Trump administration, suddenly all the safety concerns are gone and flights will be allowed again. Anyway it is good news for Mexican and Copa airlines they get to pick up the high yielding traffic.


So your suggestion would be to wait for some event to actually happen and then lets worry about it? Venezuela and its airports & airlines are an event waiting to happen. During the country-wide power outages a few weeks ago, CCS was operating in the dark (there are videos on the web about it) as well as accounts of passengers and crew of an Air Europa flight to MAD that was boarded with almost non existent or very rudimentary security controls.

Add to that the fact that AV and AR both explicitly stated when leaving CCS that they did so for lack of security and pertinent infrastructure at the airport(s) in Venezuela. And that was roughly a year ago, and as you say, things have only gone downhill since then.
 
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andrefranca
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 3:34 pm

Western727 wrote:
So sad. I spent spring break there once during my undergraduate days, in 1997. AVENSA 72S YV-92C MIA-CCS, connecting to D95 YV-90C to BLA. Mid-week we did a day trip on AeroEjecutivos DC-3 YV-440C to CAJ (Canaima, near Angel Falls) during which we did a scenic fly-by of the falls, before flying back to the states on 3 straight 72Ss (AVENSA for the flights to MIA and then AA to BWI).

Chávez wouldn't become Venezuela's president for almost two years. We had a great time and the people of Venezuela were fantastic.


True... I visited in 1998 with VIASA, I was 9 years old... Great country... returned in 2008... 10 years in power and that man wrecked Venezuela...
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
MalevTU134
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 4:04 pm

dcajet wrote:
hohd wrote:
Politics is playing into this. So far there has been no single incident especially involving safety or terrorism concerns, if a new government forms and is favorable to Trump administration, suddenly all the safety concerns are gone and flights will be allowed again. Anyway it is good news for Mexican and Copa airlines they get to pick up the high yielding traffic.


So your suggestion would be to wait for some event to actually happen and then lets worry about it? Venezuela and its airports & airlines are an event waiting to happen. During the country-wide power outages a few weeks ago, CCS was operating in the dark (there are videos on the web about it) as well as accounts of passengers and crew of an Air Europa flight to MAD that was boarded with almost non existent or very rudimentary security controls.

Ironically, those who could make a killing now are CU, if they started HAV-MIA with good connections to CCS.


Chuckle. Indeed an irony. But then, CU would need to be run with a commercial mindset instead of being Cuba's Communist Party in the Air. Then it would need planes, that it does not have in ample supply. And third, the moment any Cubana asset lands in MIA or any US port of entry, it'd be embargoed by the US courts.
I agree fully only with your second point. Lack of aircraft is indeed a problem. But they could pull a plane off routes to SDQ, MEX or something. Or reshuffle the schedule. I am not asking for an hourly MIA shuttle. :)
As to your first point, there are actually progressive minds inside CU who could see this opportunity. Until now, I am sure they saw MIA as only an opportunity to get pax to HAV. But now they suddenly have a whole new opportunity in CCS with massive demand. (As does BW and Air Aruba as well, of course, should they decide to risk it back into Venezuela.)
Your third point is exaggerated, if not entirely incorrect. Cubana planes have landed in the US several times during the Castro era (emergencies, official flights to the UN, hijackings etc.) and they haven't been embargoed. Note that Cubana was never expropiated by the Castros, it was already state property under Fulgencio Batista. So the recent law signed by Trump shouldn't apply to them. And if in doubt, they can wet lease, maybe even the same planes Avior was flying until yesterday? Remember, the US has really no issues with Venezuelan airlines, just Venezuela as a departing point for flights.
 
dcajet
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 4:14 pm

Western727 wrote:

Additionally, PA had a single daily flight on a 747 (!!!!) in February 1987. EA had a single flight (aircraft unknown) in August of 1987. UA's latest timetable on the aforementioned site is "only" from August of 1982 and did not show any MIA-CCS flights, though that's obviously well in advance of your UA stint.


By 1988 and until the very end, Pan Am operated 2 daily services from CCS;

* PA218 CCS-JFK (I believe this was the 747 flight)

* PA442 CCS-MIA A300

Both aircraft overnighted at CCS and left in the morning within a few minutes of each other.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
dcajet
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 4:27 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
hohd wrote:
Politics is playing into this. So far there has been no single incident especially involving safety or terrorism concerns, if a new government forms and is favorable to Trump administration, suddenly all the safety concerns are gone and flights will be allowed again. Anyway it is good news for Mexican and Copa airlines they get to pick up the high yielding traffic.


So your suggestion would be to wait for some event to actually happen and then lets worry about it? Venezuela and its airports & airlines are an event waiting to happen. During the country-wide power outages a few weeks ago, CCS was operating in the dark (there are videos on the web about it) as well as accounts of passengers and crew of an Air Europa flight to MAD that was boarded with almost non existent or very rudimentary security controls.

Ironically, those who could make a killing now are CU, if they started HAV-MIA with good connections to CCS.


Chuckle. Indeed an irony. But then, CU would need to be run with a commercial mindset instead of being Cuba's Communist Party in the Air. Then it would need planes, that it does not have in ample supply. And third, the moment any Cubana asset lands in MIA or any US port of entry, it'd be embargoed by the US courts.
I agree fully only with your second point. Lack of aircraft is indeed a problem. But they could pull a plane off routes to SDQ, MEX or something. Or reshuffle the schedule. I am not asking for an hourly MIA shuttle. :)
As to your first point, there are actually progressive minds inside CU who could see this opportunity. Until now, I am sure they saw MIA as only an opportunity to get pax to HAV. But now they suddenly have a whole new opportunity in CCS with massive demand. (As does BW and Air Aruba as well, of course, should they decide to risk it back into Venezuela.)
Your third point is exaggerated, if not entirely incorrect. Cubana planes have landed in the US several times during the Castro era (emergencies, official flights to the UN, hijackings etc.) and they haven't been embargoed. Note that Cubana was never expropiated by the Castros, it was already state property under Fulgencio Batista. So the recent law signed by Trump shouldn't apply to them. And if in doubt, they can wet lease, maybe even the same planes Avior was flying until yesterday? Remember, the US has really no issues with Venezuelan airlines, just Venezuela as a departing point for flights.


Well, our conversation is highly rhetorical yet fun, as I highly doubt Cubana will get the inspiration & resources. And it may end up being a good thing after all. Non aviation enthusiasts that have flown on Cubana have horror tales about it, from the service to the lack of any basic idea of sticking to any schedule.

As to Cuban assets, I don't think my point is exaggerated. Any Castro trip to the UN is an official state mission so I highly doubt the US would mess with it. There are, as an example, the Cuban planes that landed in Key West, FL, and have been caught for years in litigation limbo.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Hij ... 96441.html
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: U.S. Suspends Flights to Venezuela

Thu May 16, 2019 9:04 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/06/venezuela-biggest-airport-is-in-free-fall/561875/

A brief rundown on why airlines were leaving BEFORE the security situation spiraled out of any semblance of control.

Security situation or not, what has driven airlines to flee Venezuela is the loss of money. Both Chavez and Maduro have refused to convert the Bolivares into Dollars, hence why so many airlines have lost vast sums of money in Venezuela. For a while flights continued, but only for those who could find a way to pay in dollars. Empty flights going in, packed to the gills with those able to afford the exorbitant cost of fleeing.

It's heartbreaking, but it is reality.

Absolutely incorrect, as has been pointed out (as this claim is always made) in virtually every thread on Venezuela in the last 3 years or so. No foreign airlines have been selling tickets in bolívares for at least 4 years (with extremely rare exceptions).


That was not my intent to imply, and please forgive me if it was taken that way. You are correct that no airline has sold in Bolivares in years, because of the currency restrictions in place by the Chavez/Maduro government that required a ludicrous exchange rate that was unacceptable. Since then, as we know, tickets are sold ONLY in dollars (or non-Venezuelan currency), not Bolivares.

Thank you for the clarification.

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