Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
flyiguy wrote:I’m sure Kauai and Lanai won’t be be far behind either.
FLY
CriticalPoint wrote:flyiguy wrote:I’m sure Kauai and Lanai won’t be be far behind either.
FLY
Maybe one flight a year...... I don’t even think a 737 can land and takeoff from lanai
BravoOne wrote:ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.
BravoOne wrote:ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:CriticalPoint wrote:flyiguy wrote:I’m sure Kauai and Lanai won’t be be far behind either.
FLY
Maybe one flight a year...... I don’t even think a 737 can land and takeoff from lanai
The runway length is 5,001 feet at virtually sea level, similar to SNA which has EWR-SNA on a 737. And while I agree that the demand is going to be quite low, I know LNY has handled Hawaiian DC-9's in the past.
Antarius wrote:Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.
MIflyer12 wrote:Antarius wrote:Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.
Air demand in Hawaii is driven by tourism, not local population. That the Hilo MSA (all of the Big Island) has 185K people isn't irrelevant. KOA and ITO didn't handle 4 million passengers last year by that 185K flying frequently.
SierraPacific wrote:I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.
MIflyer12 wrote:Antarius wrote:Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.
Air demand in Hawaii is driven by tourism, not local population. That the Hilo MSA (all of the Big Island) has 185K people isn't irrelevant. KOA and ITO didn't handle 4 million passengers last year by that 185K flying frequently.
SANFan wrote:SierraPacific wrote:I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.
You could be right.
I've given up waiting to see -- or caring -- if SAN will ever become part of WN's HI route map. This whole thing has gone on way to long for me to maintain any interest in what, if anything, happens next....
bb
SkyVoice wrote:BravoOne wrote:ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.
With apologies to coach Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" It's true that ITO was the only other gateway to the mainland besides HNL, but that was back during the days of airline regulation. ITO is not able to support widebody service & will be eschewed by sun worshippers, but many people--both locals & tourists--claim that Hilo is where to go to experience the REAL Hawai'i, apart from the stampede of visitors. The airport has plenty of capacity & the motels & restaurants are predominately mom-and-pop operations. So, go to Hilo, mingle with the locals, enjoy the "liquid sunshine," then visit the volcanoes & the black sand beaches!
Then, come back to A*Net & post a trip report! -SkyVoice
SANFan wrote:SierraPacific wrote:I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.
You could be right.
I've given up waiting to see -- or caring -- if SAN will ever become part of WN's HI route map. This whole thing has gone on way to long for me to maintain any interest in what, if anything, happens next....
bb
SkyVoice wrote:BravoOne wrote:ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.
With apologies to coach Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" It's true that ITO was the only other gateway to the mainland besides HNL, but that was back during the days of airline regulation. ITO is not able to support widebody service & will be eschewed by sun worshippers, but many people--both locals & tourists--claim that Hilo is where to go to experience the REAL Hawai'i, apart from the stampede of visitors. The airport has plenty of capacity & the motels & restaurants are predominately mom-and-pop operations. So, go to Hilo, mingle with the locals, enjoy the "liquid sunshine," then visit the volcanoes & the black sand beaches!
Then, come back to A*Net & post a trip report! -SkyVoice
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:The runway length is 5,001 feet at virtually sea level, similar to SNA which has EWR-SNA on a 737. And while I agree that the demand is going to be quite low, I know LNY has handled Hawaiian DC-9's in the past.
DarthLobster wrote:Next up, Kahoolawe and Moloniki. They’ll make just as much money.
RJNUT wrote:..and Northwest flew SEA-ITO with Boeing 707;s
RJNUT wrote:..and Northwest flew SEA-ITO with Boeing 707;s
B1168 wrote:I do want to ask a question. Is it possible for WN to use their 737 MAX 7 to fly between DFW and Hawaii? I see limited destination selections on AA, and I hope WN can improve it a bit using smaller aircrafts.
CriticalPoint wrote:Maybe one flight a year...... I don’t even think a 737 can land and takeoff from lanai
RyanairGuru wrote:SkyVoice wrote:BravoOne wrote:ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.
With apologies to coach Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" It's true that ITO was the only other gateway to the mainland besides HNL, but that was back during the days of airline regulation. ITO is not able to support widebody service & will be eschewed by sun worshippers, but many people--both locals & tourists--claim that Hilo is where to go to experience the REAL Hawai'i, apart from the stampede of visitors. The airport has plenty of capacity & the motels & restaurants are predominately mom-and-pop operations. So, go to Hilo, mingle with the locals, enjoy the "liquid sunshine," then visit the volcanoes & the black sand beaches!
Then, come back to A*Net & post a trip report! -SkyVoice
I went to Hilo a couple of years ago and was pretty blown away. The beaches are not really beaches and the town has a slightly run down feel as though the world had moved on and left Hilo behind, but the atmosphere is so totally different to the main tourist markets. It was really endearing. The easy access to the volcanoes was the cherry on top.
hawaiian717 wrote:CriticalPoint wrote:Maybe one flight a year...... I don’t even think a 737 can land and takeoff from lanai
Aloha tried Lanai with the 737 at one point as well, I believe prior to Hawaiian going there with the DC-9 as mentioned above.
Lanai is an interesting market. The resorts are so upscale I can see how many of their guests might prefer a jet to a small prop. But I suspect that niche is now satisfied by Mokulele’s Lanai Air PC-12 service, where at least if you can’t have a jet, you can have a semi-private fast turboprop.
9w748capt wrote:RyanairGuru wrote:SkyVoice wrote:
With apologies to coach Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" It's true that ITO was the only other gateway to the mainland besides HNL, but that was back during the days of airline regulation. ITO is not able to support widebody service & will be eschewed by sun worshippers, but many people--both locals & tourists--claim that Hilo is where to go to experience the REAL Hawai'i, apart from the stampede of visitors. The airport has plenty of capacity & the motels & restaurants are predominately mom-and-pop operations. So, go to Hilo, mingle with the locals, enjoy the "liquid sunshine," then visit the volcanoes & the black sand beaches!
Then, come back to A*Net & post a trip report! -SkyVoice
I went to Hilo a couple of years ago and was pretty blown away. The beaches are not really beaches and the town has a slightly run down feel as though the world had moved on and left Hilo behind, but the atmosphere is so totally different to the main tourist markets. It was really endearing. The easy access to the volcanoes was the cherry on top.
Hilo and Volcano village are on our list for our next trip to Hawaii. We've seen and done the chain hotel/touristy beach thing. Would love to experience a whole new side of Hawaii.
Antarius wrote:BravoOne wrote:ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.
ITO also only has one flight to the mainland on UA. Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.
I dont think ITO will be getting 2 widebodies a day, or a lot of beach tourists, but this could work.
Antarius wrote:9w748capt wrote:RyanairGuru wrote:
I went to Hilo a couple of years ago and was pretty blown away. The beaches are not really beaches and the town has a slightly run down feel as though the world had moved on and left Hilo behind, but the atmosphere is so totally different to the main tourist markets. It was really endearing. The easy access to the volcanoes was the cherry on top.
Hilo and Volcano village are on our list for our next trip to Hawaii. We've seen and done the chain hotel/touristy beach thing. Would love to experience a whole new side of Hawaii.
IMO, the Big Island is the best part of Hawaii between Mauna Kea and Volcano.
Personally, other than PHH, and the big island, theres no point in flying 8 hours from DFW or ATL or other mid continent hubs to Hawaii for the beach. Go to Turks and Caicos.
77H wrote:Antarius wrote:9w748capt wrote:
Hilo and Volcano village are on our list for our next trip to Hawaii. We've seen and done the chain hotel/touristy beach thing. Would love to experience a whole new side of Hawaii.
IMO, the Big Island is the best part of Hawaii between Mauna Kea and Volcano.
Personally, other than PHH, and the big island, theres no point in flying 8 hours from DFW or ATL or other mid continent hubs to Hawaii for the beach. Go to Turks and Caicos.
And yet there is nonstop service from BOS, JFK, EWR, ATL, ORD, MSP, DFW, IAH and DEN, with DTW starting in a few months, all on WB aircraft. UA has upgraded DEN-OGG to a 77A and the latest OAG thread indicates AA will be going 3x daily DFW-HNL during select peaks.
If the Caribbean was that much more popular than Hawaii for people east of the Rockies why are the airlines not using those WBs to the Caribbean instead ? Hell, many Caribbean markets even have the added advantage of VFR traffic to supplement tourist traffic and yet the same airlines flying 8-11 hr WB sectors to Hawaii haven’t seen fit to use those WBs to the Caribbean.
Looking at ORD as an example, UA maintains daily year around service to HNL, with year around Sat-only service to OGG that increases to daily during peak periods, both on the 77A.
Meanwhile, UA only manages to serve Aruba and San Juan year around. The rest of it’s Caribbean markets are seasonal and all NB despite being considerably closer.
77H
Antarius wrote:77H wrote:Antarius wrote:
IMO, the Big Island is the best part of Hawaii between Mauna Kea and Volcano.
Personally, other than PHH, and the big island, theres no point in flying 8 hours from DFW or ATL or other mid continent hubs to Hawaii for the beach. Go to Turks and Caicos.
And yet there is nonstop service from BOS, JFK, EWR, ATL, ORD, MSP, DFW, IAH and DEN, with DTW starting in a few months, all on WB aircraft. UA has upgraded DEN-OGG to a 77A and the latest OAG thread indicates AA will be going 3x daily DFW-HNL during select peaks.
If the Caribbean was that much more popular than Hawaii for people east of the Rockies why are the airlines not using those WBs to the Caribbean instead ? Hell, many Caribbean markets even have the added advantage of VFR traffic to supplement tourist traffic and yet the same airlines flying 8-11 hr WB sectors to Hawaii haven’t seen fit to use those WBs to the Caribbean.
Looking at ORD as an example, UA maintains daily year around service to HNL, with year around Sat-only service to OGG that increases to daily during peak periods, both on the 77A.
Meanwhile, UA only manages to serve Aruba and San Juan year around. The rest of it’s Caribbean markets are seasonal and all NB despite being considerably closer.
77H
Just my opinion. also the allure of Hawaii isnt always rational. Its built up into this fantasyland in movies to the point that people feel like they want to go. Also it doesn't need a passport.
Not much different than Pisa; someone fucked up royally, but everyone talks about it so people feel like they should go.
Having been several times, I'm not arguing it isnt popular. Heck, I love that AA flies the 772 and 788 on these routes - best part of the whole trip is seat 1L. (Also UA and AA cant serve ORD-HNL with a NB, so the fact that there isnt one on the route isnt surprising or remotely related to right sizing. They either serve the route with a WB or dont at all)
JDub wrote:Hilo has no hotels, and not much to offer tourist except the volcano
77H wrote:Antarius wrote:BravoOne wrote:ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.
ITO also only has one flight to the mainland on UA. Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.
I dont think ITO will be getting 2 widebodies a day, or a lot of beach tourists, but this could work.
UA used to operate SFO-ITO too but dropped the route. Loads on their LAX flight aren’t exactly anything to write home about either. If there was enough demand to/from ITO why haven’t we seen AS or HA start service, or even UA resume SFO? It should be telling that almost every airline dropped ITO immediately after deregulation and all but UA have never come back.
Demand to and from ITO is, and will be interisland, not the mainland. At the end of the day, visitors are going to fly into and stay on the Kona Coast. Windward Hawaii, including the Hamakua Coast, Hilo and Volcano NP are worth a visit, but can be accomplished as a day trip in the rental car.
For posters questioning LNY service... out of the question. The island’s infrastructure is not set up for bulk tourism like Oahu, Maui, Kauai or the Kona Coast. Even local demand is limited. There is a reason “hometown” HA only flies AT4s to LNY rather than the 712, and it’s not the runway length.
77H
JDub wrote:Hilo has no hotels, and not much to offer tourist except the volcano. This will be a small hinterland route, no way they go to Hilo before Kona and then Lihue.
9w748capt wrote:B1168 wrote:I do want to ask a question. Is it possible for WN to use their 737 MAX 7 to fly between DFW and Hawaii? I see limited destination selections on AA, and I hope WN can improve it a bit using smaller aircrafts.
Huh? AA serves HNL and OGG multiple times per day year round and adds KOA in high season. Find another mid-continent airport with that much Hawaii service?
9w748capt wrote:Hilo and Volcano village are on our list for our next trip to Hawaii. We've seen and done the chain hotel/touristy beach thing. Would love to experience a whole new side of Hawaii.